I've signed with about thirty agencies. The moment I filled out the application and checked the agree box, I was able to shop. The only time there has been a delay was when they needed to verify my SSN.

These companies do not pay minimum wage. Some jobs pay nothing. Others average about $2/hour before taxes. They are not subject to laws about safety. They do not pay social security, provide sick pay, etc. They often do not pay. They ask you to commit illegal actions. And during this health crisis, they are advertising for people to visit Senior Living Centers, and to take a minor along to a public place.

There are multiple corporations that we deal with at the same time, so we don't know who we are really dealing with.

@wauserfriendly wrote:

I've signed with about thirty agencies. The moment I filled out the application and checked the agree box, I was able to shop. The only time there has been a delay was when they needed to verify my SSN.

These companies do not pay minimum wage. Some jobs pay nothing. Others average about $2/hour before taxes. They are not subject to laws about safety. They do not pay social security, provide sick pay, etc. They often do not pay. They ask you to commit illegal actions. And during this health crisis, they are advertising for people to visit Senior Living Centers, and to take a minor along to a public place.

There are multiple corporations that we deal with at the same time, so we don't know who we are really dealing with.

Oh geeze, here we go again...

Wait. Wasn't there and Isley Brothers song with that title? *checks*

So I am hijacking the thread and listening to the Isley Brothers as I type...

@luckygirl0100 wrote:

@wauserfriendly wrote:

I've signed with about thirty agencies. The moment I filled out the application and checked the agree box, I was able to shop. The only time there has been a delay was when they needed to verify my SSN.

These companies do not pay minimum wage. Some jobs pay nothing. Others average about $2/hour before taxes. They are not subject to laws about safety. They do not pay social security, provide sick pay, etc. They often do not pay. They ask you to commit illegal actions. And during this health crisis, they are advertising for people to visit Senior Living Centers, and to take a minor along to a public place.

There are multiple corporations that we deal with at the same time, so we don't know who we are really dealing with.

Oh geeze, here we go again...

You're right. Complaining that a company wants to expose children and the elderly to a deadly viral pandemic, while at the same time violating emergency rules, means I have my priorities wrong.

After all, what's a few lives? How rude of me!

Erica, It may be tough financially, but we do need to stay at home to protect ourselves and others. I hope we all get to appreciate those who have stayed home.

For those who think this is a joke, or are in denial, or who don't understand, read what is going on in Italy. The doctors now have to decide who gets treatment and who doesn't. They are a few weeks ahead of us. how doctors in Italy are having to make decisions about which patients to treat. THAT is what happens if we don't flatten the curve.

I'm staying at home to save my life and yours. I would love to find out that I am overly cautious and that this will blow over next week.

The new information tells us that you can be perfectly healthy for up to two weeks as you spread this virus, and it spreads faster and easier than others.

The rules are designed to save lives. I believe that the bad news is being doled out over time. Do the calculations yourself. 350 million in the US. 65% will catch the virus. 1.5% will die. But also do your own calculations--it's 10% in Italy.

Each time you interact in person, you risk your own life and the life of the person you've met. Whether you worry about others or only yourself, stay at home. Once it's kicked let's all have one helluva party.

Here is the germ of and idea regarding a possible missing link...

What have "your" MSC's communicated to you regarding their awareness of stay-at-home and similar orders?

Mine have communicated their awareness of these restrictions which may vary from state to state or country to country. They have reminded me (and all their shopper pool) to observe local and federal orders and restrictions in addition to washing hands for at least 20 seconds and following other CDC guidelines. They reminded us that we are free to refrain from accepting any assignment. This freedom is the nature of IC work.

There is no harm in offering available work.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

There is no harm in offering available work.

The is specific harm in promoting people being out in public for non-essential work. All MSing is non-essential.

This will be ranging a political post, but we are also mostly all on lockdown from a global pandemic, so it's going to be harder to escape politics in any discussion while adding a positive contribution to the community.

The issue here is specifically following state orders. If for whatever political reason the leaders in your state cannot see the writing on the wall and issue a stay-at-home order, and you decide that makes it safe to go about your non-essential business, you are exercising extremely poor judgement. If you are a MSC or scheduler and take that approach, enabling masses of people to do that, it is irresponsible and shameful IMHO.

We all have a social obligation to do what's needed to help keep the greatest number of people alive during this pandemic, and falling back on orders of the floundering federal system and mis-informed state governments is pathetic excuse. The governor of Georgia apparently just learned this Wednesday that the virus can be spread by people who are not exhibiting symptoms. These are not people you should be taking advice from!

There will be hundreds of thousands of deaths from this in the near future, so it's time to stop making excuses for endangering the lives of yourself and others at any price.

Again: there is no harm in offering available work. The offer involves no risk to an IC or to others. It is only an offer.

If an IC accepts a job offer, they incur no risk. The acceptance involves scheduling work but does not bring risk to the iC or to others.

Stay with me, please. No risk has occurred. Yet.

If an IC completes the work, they might incur risk. This depends largely upon where the work is performed. If the IC works at home and makes phone calls, they probably do not put themselves at risk. (If their phone and work space are contaminated, they put themselves at risk.) They are not positioned to endanger others outside the home. Some risk might exist at the targeted site, but the IC does not incur any risk from the site.

Are any essential and non-essential locations being phone shopped? I do not know, and I have not looked into that. Someone else might know this.

My state has a stay-at-home order. I comply. My neighboring states have orders in place. I comply with them, too. I have scheduled IC work for... wait for it... July. if you read my post about the July work and similar posts, you might recall that I know and accept that work might not be available that soon, or even after that time.

Now, I will forget your post above and carry on in my world. I have one more project to complete at home before I can read a beloved book.

Folks, shop-et-al's explanation of his/her position was concise and logical; I am unable to add any relevant comments.

@shopperbob wrote:

Folks, shop-et-al's explanation of his/her position was concise and logical; I am unable to add any relevant comments.

Concise, somewhat logical and probably meant with no ill intent. Potentially absent social interest and the ability to understand how one's actions have an effect on the world, however...

Thank you, Steve, for expressing this far better than I have. In addition, the political reactions--specifically the hodge-podge sets of rules in different regions has been slower than what the experts recommend.

We are a country that believes in freedom and choice. Some take those concepts as absolute. It's simplistic and selfish to ignore anything but the ability to do what we want. Imagine a country made up of two-year olds. (Not an attack....just reminding us that we all still have a two year old inside.) Sometimes we have to accept we can't eat ice cream for dinner, drive the car when drunk, have raw sewage flow in the streets, sell products that harm the user, or manipulate others. Having the freedom to choose is a great thing, as is the understanding of right and wrong.

@Shop-et-al

It depends on the work. Does this apply to the drug dealer finding people to sell product? Does it apply to a contractor that ignores all safety regulations? Does being an employer mean there are no obligations to society or employees?

"We are a country that believes in freedom and choice. Some take those concepts as absolute."

They certainly are absolute as long as they do not violate the law. Your personal interpretation of freedom and choice or right and wrong are irrelevant to anyone but yourself.

I mean this with absolutely no offense, but it sounds as if mystery shopping simply isn't for you. You appear to have issues with just about everything in this business. Instead of expecting it to change to meet your needs perhaps finding a profession that already meets your needs would be more productive?

@wauserfriendly wrote:

I've signed with about thirty agencies. The moment I filled out the application and checked the agree box, I was able to shop. The only time there has been a delay was when they needed to verify my SSN.

These companies do not pay minimum wage. Some jobs pay nothing. Others average about $2/hour before taxes. They are not subject to laws about safety. They do not pay social security, provide sick pay, etc. They often do not pay. They ask you to commit illegal actions. And during this health crisis, they are advertising for people to visit Senior Living Centers, and to take a minor along to a public place.

There are multiple corporations that we deal with at the same time, so we don't know who we are really dealing with.

It appears at this juncture in the course of the pandemic, there are few if any mystery shopping projects offered to any shoppers by any schedulers or companies. Virtue signaling, blatant hyperbole and straw man attacks regarding clearly heinous or imaginary behaviors may have some positive effect , perhaps providing information to those who are absolutely unaware of current events, as well as providing strokes of self importance to the needy few. But the relentless rehashing of nebulous perceived past sins of unnamed or imaginary nefarious perpetrators does not address the current needs and concerns of our industry and our nation.
We must do our best to work together to dilligently follow the guidelines set forth for our safety and defeating our common enemy, the virus. This may well include respecting and valuing others in our personal and professional lives.
In short order, we will have a new task ahead, to regain the economic strength and vitality of this business and our nation as a whole. I sincerely wish everyone peace and success in their individual endeavors, and I hope that we can use our collective energies in a positive fashion to create a healthy and prosperous future for our country.

These questions, or their twins, were asked and answered in another post. It is somewhere in the forum.

@wauserfriendly wrote:

@Shop-et-al

It depends on the work. Does this apply to the drug dealer finding people to sell product? Does it apply to a contractor that ignores all safety regulations? Does being an employer mean there are no obligations to society or employees?

Encouraging people to violate Emergency Regulations is against the law.

You are welcome to believe that morality and ethics should have no place in decision making. I cannot argue with your beliefs that one should or can do anything as long as it is not illegal.

My own beliefs are that morality and ethics are important. Laws are to be developed using morality and ethics, so I fail to understand your viewpoint.

With this fundamental difference in belief, further discussion is a waste of time. Others can choose to make their choice and review the arguments we have offered based upon an understanding that they either come from principals that ethics and morality are important or are are unimportant in any decisions.

I will focus on your last two paragraphs and agree with your conclusions. I wish for the safety of us all.

*takes a deep breath*

But who, exactly, has been encouraging people to violate Emergency Regulations?

I have not seen any MSC do this. In fact, I reiterate that they remind shoppers to comply with such in their areas.

Perhaps you could take a few moments and post resources for us to examine which plainly show that anyone in our large industry has been encouraging independent contractors to violate laws. I would appreciate an opportunity to see for myself how this has happened within the time frame of COVID-19 restrictions, orders, and the like.

Thank you for any assistance and information that you can provide.

Sincerely,

shop-et-al

@wauserfriendly wrote:

Encouraging people to violate Emergency Regulations is against the law.

You are welcome to believe that morality and ethics should have no place in decision making. I cannot argue with your beliefs that one should or can do anything as long as it is not illegal.

My own beliefs are that morality and ethics are important. Laws are to be developed using morality and ethics, so I fail to understand your viewpoint.

With this fundamental difference in belief, further discussion is a waste of time. Others can choose to make their choice and review the arguments we have offered based upon an understanding that they either come from principals that ethics and morality are important or are are unimportant in any decisions.

@wauserfriendly wrote:

I've signed with about thirty agencies. The moment I filled out the application and checked the agree box, I was able to shop. The only time there has been a delay was when they needed to verify my SSN.

These companies do not pay minimum wage. Some jobs pay nothing. Others average about $2/hour before taxes. They are not subject to laws about safety. They do not pay social security, provide sick pay, etc. They often do not pay. They ask you to commit illegal actions. And during this health crisis, they are advertising for people to visit Senior Living Centers, and to take a minor along to a public place.

There are multiple corporations that we deal with at the same time, so we don't know who we are really dealing with.

If you feel like this why do you even mystery shop??? You determine your fee, NOT the MSP! If the job pays less than you want to be paid you ignore the job, simple as that!

I think such animosity towards the MSP's still offering work is a waste of energy. I am not checking emails. I am not checking job boards. I am not even sure that I will go back to work when they SAY we can go back to work.
My husband and I will not go back to work until hand sanitizer, bleach type disinfecting wipes are easily accessible. There is a second wave coming, number 1 and number two the vaccine will not be available for at least a year, according to Dr. F.
I think this should be a learning lesson. Although, I do not ride public transportation which I believe is a major transmission site for community transmission I will employ new habits. I will wipe door handles with sanitizer/disinfecting wipes, I will continue wiping keypads, I won't touch my face when I'm out, and well public restrooms become a faux pas. I will never pump gas the same way again. (It's kind of sad, but It is what it is. I will just be wiser in the future).
it seems to me that the major complainers forget who they work for. I work for myself. Therefore, I answer to myself and schedule the contracts that I am interested in. I don't just take jobs because it's offered to me.

@F and L TeleComm, I think you are dead-on-target regarding public transit, but here's the other side the ire at MSC's still offering work:

I am not just staying home for my benefit. I'm staying home for everyone's benefit, and hoping that others comply for the benefit of my parents, who are both in their 80's and have other health issues that make them extremely high-risk. When others flagrantly disregard the concept that we all need to be united looking out for one another, it angers me.

I just takes one person doing something stupid to create a new outbreak in an otherwise safe community. Don't be that person. Don't encourage that person. Grow up and realize that everyone is going to be financially hurt by this, and you are not an island.

End of rant....

Offering work is not an encouragement. For independent contractors, receiving an offer of work is merely something to consider or ignore. Failing to describe what constitutes encouragement is a foundational flaw in the lengthy discussion...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2020 06:12PM by Shop-et-al.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Offering work is not an encouragement.

Failing to understand how that offer of work affects scared and desperate people is why we disagree...

Because what is the point of even opening the email? The only emails I'm opening is On-site inspections, just in case, they offer scope R's or Scope L's (drive-bys). I've seen emails for circle k's but I haven't even paid them any attention.
Focus on your home projects and SCAN your emails. Quit wasting your energies stressing out on what MSPs are doing right now. Don't you have enough to worry about already? I mean for Christ's sake if you don't have anything better to do then pray for New York. If your not a Christian then send them positive thoughts under whatever belief system you have. I'm sure you've made a list of projects to work on at home. I've planted some herbs and some flowers Cleaned and disinfected in the kitchen and bathroom, hand washed the hand washables that I never have time to do.
As for what will happen when we go back to work. I'm sure it will be kind of slow at first but no sense worrying too much about it right now. It normally takes the economy about two years to recover, sometimes even longer. I just want to live through this. Everything else I deal with when the time comes. I'm actually going to apply for the SBA loan deal. And use the money to get my rental property up and running. I prefer to not keep all my eggs in one basket.

Who, exactly, is scared, desperate, and/or affected in some way by a gig offer that causes them to perform work that you believe they should not perform? How are you distinguishing between these persons and the ones who might have a matter-of-fact about work. 'As a matter of fact, despite best efforts I could end up with COVID-19 as well as financial loss to my loved ones that could have been ameliorated had I worked a bit more to provide for us...' Please keep in mind that for some people, relief from the fed might not arrive in time to prevent a downward financial spiral. Would you really fault them for being as safe as possible while attempting to maintain some sort of finances for themselves and their families?

@SteveSoCal wrote:

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Offering work is not an encouragement.

Failing to understand how that offer of work affects scared and desperate people is why we disagree...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2020 07:27PM by Shop-et-al.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Would you really fault them for being as safe as possible while attempting to maintain some sort of finances for themselves and their families?

Yes, I would...because this isn't an every-(wo)man-for-themselves situation. Endangering others for your personal interest is a specific problem we are having right now, and there are other solutions. Just about every community has some type of outreach for people suffering because they are not able to work.

We can simply agree to disagree, since we clearly don't view this the in the same way. There's no need to discuss it any further.

To everyone except SteveSoCal, who does not wish to discuss (translation? will not tolerate any more of these dadblasted notions):

I remind myself of my mom. From time to time, she took on people who could not discuss. Once, she received a standing ovation. Usually, she got numerous evil eyes and a long trail of badmouthing. Go me.

I got a few post likes, though. That is pretty amazing. And, I know that I cannot depend upon promised funds from the government. Here, some charities and outreaches are hurting for funds and goods. Half the population is gone, and not everyone who remains can give any more money and needed items. I am not in "it" for just me. I am in this so that I can have appropriate, inexpensive foods and a chance of personal health and not drawing upon resources that others can use for the indefinite future. It does not bother me in the least that anyone would challenge this basic concept of well-being.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2020 10:01PM by Shop-et-al.

It's called personal responsibility, Steve. Governments have put rules in place and, yes, people should follow them. But past that, it is everyone's right to serve their own interest. And YOU do not get to decide how important those interests are. It may be nice and comfy for you (and others on here who endlessly point out how they don't need the money) to sit at home and tell people it takes a village, but others are feeling enormous financial pressure. And you have absolutely got to be kidding when you say there are resources for helping the financially strapped. We're not talking about canned food here, Steve. We're talking about paying the rent. Elitists are woefully out of touch with the common folk.
Don't tell me some 80 year old parents are my responsibility. If someone is worried about their elderly parents then it is up to them to deal with it accordingly. Keep them home, keep them safe, whatever. I'll take care of me and mine, you take care of you and yours. Then everyone is taken care of as we as individuals see fit (and, of course with respect to the rules in place).
The government is not your Daddy. Businesses are not your Daddy. The people in your city are not your Daddy. Stop expecting person and every entity to be responsible for eliminating every last bit of risk in your lives.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2020 04:06PM by roxy1.

This is a good time to remind myself about boundaries. If we are forced to maintain space boundaries, we have little or no opportunity to act up on the lives of family and friends. How could we ever hope to control them from such a distance? Obviously, one way is to browbeat them into submission so that "our" way wins. Another way is [warning! offensive comment alert!] to pray, trust others who are nearer, and let go of outcomes. [you may resume reading now.]

But back to the boundaries thing. It is not up to us to command anyone but ourselves. If you are satisfied with your COVID-19 response, good for you. If you are even aware of mine, you have too much free time.