@JASFLALMT wrote:

I have no idea if there are antibody tests available in my part of the Midwest. I am going to guess it's unlikely, though I plan on inquiring about it this week through my health provider.

JAS, you should unquestionably check regarding the blood tests. They are generally sent out to a lab, so your provider should be able to arrange that. I would assume based on your experience that it would be relatively easy to have your doctor prescribe the test. I had to do a video visit with my doctor in order to have one scheduled.

...and I'm not saying that you didn't have COVID. Just that it's unlikely. I was also at a resort in MX in January and regularly catch everything going around, but managed to come home well for once, so part of it is just luck of the draw. The place where I stay also has no indoor dining facilities and was at low occupancy, so there was minimal contact with others in confined spaces outside of the flights.

My issue is that I take public transit to work in an urban center at home, in an area with the highest concentration of COVID cases on the west cost. I also live dead-center in the middle of tourist location that Chinese nationals visit year round, so I have massive exposure at home and relative safety on vacation. There were unquestionably residents of Wuhan on the subway with me for most of Dec-Feb, so your worst-case-scenario is probably most best option for staying healthy!

Yes, I am thankful I have a big house and we have enough saved where I don't have to go in public and risk it.

So you are now not working from home anymore and are possibly being exposed? Stay healthy!

@JASFLALMT wrote:

So you are now not working from home anymore and are possibly being exposed?

No...I'm working 100% from home now. I was on public transit throughout Dec, Jan & Feb in Hollywood for work, though (excepting the week I was in Mexico, but I took public transit to/from the airport!). I started driving to work the week of March 8th and L.A. issued the stay-at-home order March 16th. The issue is that Hollywood had massive exposure early in the year and it's been working it's way through the community here. 19 employees at my grocery store were just diagnosed with it!!

Seriously: [www.nbclosangeles.com]

So now I gotta drive to a grocery store in the mid-level part of the city for safety. Need to avoid tourist areas, wealthy areas (the rich people are too well traveled) and poor areas where there's no health care. The are currently 25,000 cases in L.A. county.....so that trip I had planned to Italy is starting to look safer than home

Ouch, Steve, be safe!

Before this morning, I would have posted yes, but then I received a notice of work visiting several assisted living facilities in Ohio.; each with a due date of now. That surprised me, as I would have thought those businesses would have been on lock down to all but necessary traffic. It would take a bucket of cash for me to complete any such work.

@shopperbob

I wouldn't do it for any amount of money. I would not be able to live with myself if I inadvertently brought a virus into a nursing home.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

So now I gotta drive to a grocery store in the mid-level part of the city for safety. Need to avoid tourist areas, wealthy areas (the rich people are too well traveled) and poor areas where there's no health care. The are currently 25,000 cases in L.A. county.....so that trip I had planned to Italy is starting to look safer than home

Yes to that Steve. I advised my brother and sister in law to stay in France back in early March as I felt the flight home might be horrible for them as they are both high risk. At the time France was in the midst of things and we were just beginning. Their scheduled flight is this month and right now France seems a much safer place to be as do all the countries who had stricter rules for their lock down Many of our big cities have been much harder hit than other parts of their state and are still having huge numbers but are being opened back up along with the more rural areas where it seems to me to be safer to start opening.

JASFLALMT replies to Bob's post--I wouldn't do it for any amount of money. I would not be able to live with myself if I inadvertently brought a virus into a nursing home.

Bob agrees--Although it is rare, I was being figurative. To begin with, I can not imagine any client permitting an assignment at such a facility located in any state. Next, as I am currently battling a terrible case of shingles, and have been advised by the VA that contracting Corona would be catastrophic, from a selfish standpoint, a bucket would be defined as an amount no business would pay. Finally, the chance of infecting another by being an asymptomatic carrier would prevent me from considering such work.

I don't think I'll be getting back into it until the Fall, at the earliest. Most of the shops I am able to schedule here at any time are in the high tourist populated areas and I'm not down with that. This weekend, they reopened the beaches in NJ, with the social distancing in place and the amount of people that did not adhere to regulations were alarming. I live in a county that is almost a ghost town in the off season, but grows exponentially from Memorial Day to Labor Day with visitors from North Jersey, New York, etc. Right now, we have 355 cases and 24 deaths in my county. Bergen County, which is up by New York has over 16,000 cases and over 1200 deaths. As soon as all is open, everyone will come down here and our cases will go through the roof. There is no way in HECK that I am going out there during that mess. The only thing that I will even consider is doing a take out shop or two when I finally am back to work at my part time job and will be in an area with shops.

Your "finally" is my "first" reason.

@shopperbob wrote:

JASFLALMT replies to Bob's post--I wouldn't do it for any amount of money. I would not be able to live with myself if I inadvertently brought a virus into a nursing home.

Bob agrees--Although it is rare, I was being figurative. To begin with, I can not imagine any client permitting an assignment at such a facility located in any state. Next, as I am currently battling a terrible case of shingles, and have been advised by the VA that contracting Corona would be catastrophic, from a selfish standpoint, a bucket would be defined as an amount no business would pay. Finally, the chance of infecting another by being an asymptomatic carrier would prevent me from considering such work.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Your "finally" is my "first" reason.

@shopperbob wrote:

To begin with, I can not imagine any client permitting an assignment at such a facility located in any state. Next, as I am currently battling a terrible case of shingles, and have been advised by the VA that contracting Corona would be catastrophic, from a selfish standpoint, a bucket would be defined as an amount no business would pay. Finally, the chance of infecting another by being an asymptomatic carrier would prevent me from considering such work.

I'm gonna go for shingles as my main reason. My sympathies, Bob!

I came down with Shingles during a hotel shop a few years back. I was in New York at a very pricy hotel and made the decision to go through with the shop, rather than fly back back home immediately. It would have cost me over $4k to ditch the shop.

The one good part; the hotel did a great job of directing me to the nearest emergency room and pharmacy, but it was excruciating. They also kept me at the hospital an extra long time so all the doctors could marvel at how I was the youngest shingles patient they had every seen...

While shingles must be quite horrible, I would rather have shingles than give a bunch of people a horrible disease that could kill them.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I have no idea if there are antibody tests available in my part of the Midwest. I am going to guess it's unlikely, though I plan on inquiring about it this week through my health provider.

JAS, you should unquestionably check regarding the blood tests. They are generally sent out to a lab, so your provider should be able to arrange that. I would assume based on your experience that it would be relatively easy to have your doctor prescribe the test. I had to do a video visit with my doctor in order to have one scheduled.

[www.bloomberg.com] (May 5)

Also, keep in mind that anti-body tests have shown conflicting results. This is something experts have been warning about. Right now, I don't think we have reliable tests.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2020 10:00AM by shoptastic.

Here is my personal question regarding antibodies: do people with other antibodies, such as Hashimoto's thyroid condition, bring something to the covid antibody test that people who presumably have no other antibodies do? I do have Hashimoto's and I am comfortable with the tests for that. I am not comfortable with rushed tests.

My other question is: is using rushed tests helping more than hindering?


*eta*

(((shopperbob and SteveSoCal)))



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2020 11:56AM by Shop-et-al.

I just read that a man in France was tested for pneumonia in December and it was negatuve. They retested his sample for COVID-19 and it came back positive. His last travel was to Algeria in August of 2019.


[www.newser.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2020 01:19PM by JASFLALMT.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Here is my personal question regarding antibodies: do people with other antibodies, such as Hashimoto's thyroid condition, bring something to the covid antibody test that people who presumably have no other antibodies do? I do have Hashimoto's and I am comfortable with the tests for that. I am not comfortable with rushed tests.

My other question is: is using rushed tests helping more than hindering?


*eta*

(((shopperbob and SteveSoCal)))

Can you expand more on the second question - helping or hindering?

the antibody test is a blood test - not invasive and poses no threat beyond the threat that any blood draw would have. There is of course the threat of contact of course as it does involve a healthcare worker drawing your blood.

My thoughts and my experience:
I had no problem getting an antibody test after I explained to my doctor that I had been in Asia and had battled a relatively severe flu in mid-January. At the time I was sick, it never occurred to me that I might have COVID and I did not seek treatment. I did have to complete a video conference "appointment" with my PCP. The cost of the test was picked up by my insurance as it is coded as COVID related.

I paired my antibody test with another metabolic blood test that I needed to get (separate issue) - so I did not make an extra trip to the lab. Therefore, I don't see how my test could be hindering anything - though I welcome a different view point. To me though - we all owe it to our communities to provide additional data so that decisions can be made on data and not politics or "gut".

I was negative for the antibody. Got my results back within 24 hours. It's possible that the test was a false negative of course - but that possibility doesn't change anything about the choices I will make. I do believe that the results of the test provide valuable information to the epidemiologists who are studying the disease progression.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2020 10:52PM by MickeyB.

Even though i have no risk factors whatsoever, I use masks and gloves. I live in a low-risk area (we have relatively clean air and only spotty crowding and tourist season is not happenin' much). It is not as essential for me to have a covid test at this time as it was for you, apparently. I am glad to hear of your good result, and I hope that a re-test would provide a consistent result for you.

[www.cnbc.com]
COVID-19 has mutated and is now more infectious.

@ wrote:

The coronavirus that emerged in Wuhan, China, has mutated and the new, dominant strain spreading across the U.S. appears to be even more contagious, according to a new study.

The new strain began spreading in Europe in early February before migrating to other parts of the world, including the U.S., becoming the dominant form of the virus across the globe by the end of March, researchers at the Los Alamos National Laboratory wrote.

If the coronavirus doesn’t subside in the summer like the seasonal flu, it could mutate further and potentially limit the effectiveness of the coronavirus vaccines being developed by scientists, the researchers warned.

Not good.

Also, not good is:
[www.bloomberg.com]

@ wrote:

Trump Says U.S. Must Reopen Even If More Americans Get Sick, Die
White House weighs dissolving virus task force amid reopening
Polls shows 69% of Americans worried about contracting virus

Trump, speaking in Phoenix during his first trip outside Washington in more than a month, said he’s preparing for “phase two” of the U.S. response to the coronavirus. That will include disbanding the White House task force of public health experts, including Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx, that have steered the government response to the outbreak so far.

Trump acknowledged that reopening the economy would likely lead to more suffering.

“Will some people be affected? Yes. Will some people be affected badly? Yes,” Trump said. “But we have to get our country open and we have to get it open soon.”

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2020 12:16AM by shoptastic.

Thank you for all the projections which continue to be based upon insufficient information. I realize that I come from school in the long ago dinosaur days of the last century where we were taught that truth matters and that it is important to use information correctly. I apologize for this because I know that it annoys people online and offline who like life and the internet to be like The View (in which many views are dismissed and many people are abused for having and expressing their views)

Nonetheless, it is possible to say this much. Our values bring us to one too-long or two shorter questions. Do we all stay at home and wither away because only some might get this dratted disease? Or, do as many people as possible live as fully as possible while being as safe as possible while some might acquire this dratted disease?

Our cynicism might bring us to these questions: Do we all stay home so that some people can get richer faster because they can create or milk the cash cows of currently relevant market niches? Or, do we all stay home and forget how to work so that we can collect fed money from an increasingly Socialistic government (the purpose of which is to lead to Communism)?

Our humanitarianism might lead to these questions: Do we all stay home so that vulnerable populations might not be exposed to the dratted disease? Or, do we all observe safety measures, work if we can/do work, and unless we work or live with vulnerable populations, stay away from vulnerable people for as long as necessary in order to reduce their risks?

I cast my vote for using safety techniques, going back to work, having some fun, and staying away from vulnerable people.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Nonetheless, it is possible to say this much. Our values bring us to one too-long or two shorter questions. Do we all stay at home and wither away because only some might get this dratted disease? Or, do as many people as possible live as fully as possible while being as safe as possible while some might acquire this dratted disease?

Good questions.

First a quick correction/challenge - I think you're assuming it's "only some might get this dratted disease." Experts early on predicted the half the entire world would ultimately end up with the virus. If you're out and about - even with social distancing and mask wearing - you can still get the virus. We're seeing the cases grow throughout the U.S. right now. For ONE FULL MONTH, 1,000 have died daily in America.

By June, it's predicted 3,000 will die every day, due to relaxing restrictions. That's the math.

i.) I'm not against safely opening back up the economy. I just don't think the Trump administration has valued safety at all from day one. I'll leave it at that and won't say anymore. (One tiny final thing is that it's interesting he's disbanding the White House task force on COVID-19 and public health at a time when the virus is still going on and getting worse. That's like ordering your military general to go ahead and walk off the battlefield in the middle of a war. The GOP and Trump are now blocking Fauci and the COVID-19 task force from testifying in the House. You can ask yourself why that is and what sort of interests might be behind that.)

ii.) Opening back up won't save the economy.

It's a concept I wrote about earlier. NO ONE can really open the economy back up. Only Americans, themselves, can. If people don't feel safe, they simply won't go back to business as usual even after restrictions. You cannot force or trick people (well...maybe the latter) to go to a buffet, concert, or restaurant if they don't want to. Most Americans (per the Bloomberg quote above) worry about catching COVID-19 and most do not trust the Trump administration's info. on it:

[www.chicagotribune.com]


I asked in a General Chat thread that if we were going to get economic pain no matter what (whether we opened or not), why not go the "protect lives" route? If we had a universal, aggressive lockdown for 60 days (only essential workers allowed out and essential tasks performed only), then we could have potentially given the virus few place to go and saved lives + had a good shot to open back the economy safely and soundly on the other side (with social distancing and other measures still in place to keep safe). Instead, many parts of the U.S. NEVER really locked down...now, we have over a million cases, case counts rising, 70,000 dead, many more hospitalized, and projected growth to 3,000 dying a day by June. Even if you open the economy now, businesses will not have anywhere near full capacity most likely.

The economy was going to be hurt one way or another. At least with the early, universal, aggressive lockdown route (where you bailout everyone's debt/bills/income for 60 days - instead of favoring the rich), we seemed to have a shot at saving lives and returning more safely to a decent economic environment. Now, we've hurt both - people's lives/health and the economy with what to show for it?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2020 05:40AM by shoptastic.

They can open up, my family is simply not going out except for groceries and gasoline for the car. Can't force me to go out. So you will lose our business - not because we want this to happen, but because we value our health/safety.

Going forward, I'm no longer going to post (at least, not very much). I worry greatly about my dad, whose age and health conditions make him a higher statistical probability for death from COVID-19. Ultimately, it's in God's hands if he would survive the virus (we hope to not get it at all). But, if these will be our family's last days together, I don't want to waste the time we may have left. I want to spend it bonding with family.

I pray for everyone's safety and well-being here (economic too!). I have many that I shall continue to pray for on a list. May God's protective hand be over everyone's health and loved ones' too here.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2020 05:37AM by shoptastic.

I realized this morning that the longer I'm not doing mystery shops the better the chance I won't go back to it at all.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Or, do we all stay home and forget how to work so that we can collect fed money from an increasingly Socialistic government (the purpose of which is to lead to Communism)?

I think you don't understand socialism or it's relationship to communism.

@KathyG wrote:

I realized this morning that the longer I'm not doing mystery shops the better the chance I won't go back to it at all.

I think for many people, this situation is at least giving them perspective....

@KathyG wrote:

I realized this morning that the longer I'm not doing mystery shops the better the chance I won't go back to it at all.

I'm thinking the same thing, KathyG!

So the blurb to mention today is.... spaces with little to no ventilation are likely spread/acquisition spots for the dratted disease. Offices were mentioned, and we all might know of other places in our own little worlds that have little to no ventilation. Just now, I can think of some residences (not mine, thank G) and one entire building that have little to no ventilation.

So for some people, staying at home might be as risky or even more risky than returning to a workplace or to other spaces.

That is some perspective, eh?

See my siggy. Would you really argue with Papa Himself?

@bgriffin wrote:

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Or, do we all stay home and forget how to work so that we can collect fed money from an increasingly Socialistic government (the purpose of which is to lead to Communism)?

I think you don't understand socialism or it's relationship to communism.

For a communist, socialism is certainly a step from capitalism to communism. However that doesn't mean the goal of socialism is communism. Likewise one could say that the goal of racist policies is genocide. Indeed someone interested in genocide would consider racists policies a step in that goal but most people who advocate for racist policies aren't interested in genocide.

The problem with communism and socialism is not their ideologies. It's the fact that by their nature they are prone to corruption. A true communist is at the same time almost an anarchist in that they believe as society evolves there will be no need for individuals to have control. The problem is there is a step in there where the government owns everything and a person or small group of people are in control. And it's hard to make them give that up. Likewise with socialism the means of production are controlled by an individual or small group of people and once they have that position of power it is easy to become corrupt by it.

Which brings us to your other flaw. We are not, nor are we headed towards, and no viable candidate for public office that I know of (even Bernie Sanders) is advocating for socialism in the US. Socialism is a form of economy where the government owns the means of production. The US is staunchly capitalistic. There are a few minor examples of socialism within the US but they are probably not the ones you're thinking about.

The United States Postal Service is an example of socialism in the US. As in Amtrak. If I am not mistaken those are the only two examples of means of production owned by the federal government. If left to it's own devices the USPS would actually be a profitable company, but that's a discussion for another day. Amtrak is considered an essential service for national security. It cannot and will never be a profitable enterprise and therefore is not capable of being sold and is needed in the event of national emergencies making air transportation unavailable (think 9/11). The other, much more prevalent example of socialism in the US is your local municipal owned utility service. Those are prevalent in thousands of cities and town across the US and are by far the most socialist thing in the US. I find it amusing that most OMG SOCIALISM people fail to understand this.

Now, about the OMG SOCIALISM people. As I said, the problem with socialism and communism is mostly that they are prone to corruption. So when you start screaming VENEZUELA!!!!! understand that all of your examples of OMG SOCIALISM are due to that corruption. Because their government owns the means of production and their dictatorships that are very thinly disguised as democracies have bled them dry. But really when you scream OMG SOCIALISM what you are really talking about is the social safety net. In the US that goes back all the way to a very wealthy person named FDR. The social safety net is not socialism. There is no advocacy for owning the means of production. And when you look at countries that have a strong safety net their economies are generally stronger than ours and they lead the US in most statistical categories that indicate how well a country is run.

Now, I couldn't possibly care less if someone doesn't believe the US should have a strong social safety net. You are perfectly entitled to that opinion and there are valid arguments for that point of view. But when you sit there and scream OMG SOCIALISM you just make yourself look dumb. It's like screaming OMG LIAR when someone farts in your presence. Sure you can be offended by the fart but you look like a moron for calling it something it isn't.

If you're gonna be offended by something for God's sake at least learn enough to intelligently discuss what you're talking about because honestly when I hear OMG SOCIALISM I immediately assume you don't have an original thought of your own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2020 10:03PM by bgriffin.

I actually do know these things and others that you have not mentioned. My concern began decades ago and has grown over time. There is too much background to put in a post, but all the information is in the world's long, large, and sometimes atrocious history.


But just now, I want to say 'Huzzah!" because I have assignments. Real, live, pay-me-money gigs! I also have an invitation to return to a job as soon as a) I can get the paperwork in and b) I have finished the above-mentioned gigs and am free to follow the designated work schedule. *does happy dance*

@Shop-et-al wrote:

I actually do know these things and others that you have not mentioned. My concern began decades ago and has grown over time. There is too much background to put in a post, but all the information is in the world's long, large, and sometimes atrocious history.

I think you don't honestly. I think you are vague and talk in circles without saying anything, exactly like you did here, because you think it makes you sound like an intellectual. It does not.