Uber/Lyft now Are Employees in California - MSer Implications?
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possible but would hope not even though I have yet to do a shop in CA.
Shopping Western NY, Northeast and Central PA, and parts of Ohio and West Virginia. Have car will travel anywhere if the monies right.
Yes. John-whatever-his-name-was posted about this last year.
You might notice that IPSOS is no longer using any of the schedulers who live in CA: Kim, Amy, etc.
You might notice that IPSOS is no longer using any of the schedulers who live in CA: Kim, Amy, etc.
Based on my limited knowledge reading of the law and how it's already affected freelance writers, I don't see how AB5 won't eventually affect MSers in California.
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Assembly Bill (A
5, recently signed into law, replaces the common law test with the ABC test to determine whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor in California. Effective January 1, 2020, hiring entities are required to classify workers as employees unless they meet all conditions of the ABC test:
A) The person is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact.
The person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business.
C) The person is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed.
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Assembly Bill (A
5, recently signed into law, replaces the common law test with the ABC test to determine whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor in California. Effective January 1, 2020, hiring entities are required to classify workers as employees unless they meet all conditions of the ABC test:
A) The person is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact.
The person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business.
C) The person is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed.
California has always been the land of fruits and nuts when it comes to the politicians and the laws that get passed out there. I think it is time for a federal class-action law suite because this is stopping people's employment and also is against the commerce clause of the constitution.
I mean why do they require that you weigh the leaves from the pot plants that you grow and harvest and sell. Not only do you have to weigh the leaves you also have to lock them up for some reason. It is not the leaves that are dangerous. reminds me of the Tax auditor in Illinois that said that he was going to put all of the independent computer repair people out of business because he did not understand what they were doing or he was just an A$$hole. I forget which.
@2stepps wrote:
California has always been the land of fruits and nuts when it comes to the politicians and the laws that get passed out there. I think it is time for a federal class-action law suite because this is stopping people's employment and also is against the commerce clause of the constitution.
The only benefit of having Kamala Harris be the VP is that she’s out of CA. Worse case scenario, X Becerra takes her place.
Hey we are out of money all of a sudden in CA. Our state income tax is really high. Oh wait, we gave pandemic money to people who are here illegally/ no papers/ however you’d prefer to call it.
We have the opportunity to overturn the ruling. I think it’s called Proposition 22. I need to look. I got a whole article about it in the teamster newsletter.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2020 10:55PM by SoCalMama.
Part of me agrees that this action is hurting our employment. But the other halfd of me knows that MSC's have long used us shoppers and pay (for some shops) below or barely above minimum wage. I am sure that most of you agree that what you do is worth multiples of minimum wage, right? Why is that type of compensation so rare? Because MSC's use us as Independent Contractors in CLEAR violation of most state and ALL federal laws. I won't go into details on that....been discussed here before,
salesburync states--I am sure that most of you agree that what you do is worth multiples of minimum wage, right? Why is that type of compensation so rare?
Bob replies--There probably are not any shoppers unaware of the answer: People willing, through either need or desire, to work for a pittance.
I, for one, have no interest in being anyone's employee. My last such experience ended with my discharge from the U.S. Navy in Oct. of 1963.
Bob replies--There probably are not any shoppers unaware of the answer: People willing, through either need or desire, to work for a pittance.
I, for one, have no interest in being anyone's employee. My last such experience ended with my discharge from the U.S. Navy in Oct. of 1963.
@2stepps wrote:
California has always been the land of fruits and nuts when it comes to the politicians and the laws that get passed out there. I think it is time for a federal class-action law suite because this is stopping people's employment and also is against the commerce clause of the constitution.
Are you intending to be purposefully offensive to millions of people?
If you are an expert at constitutional law, you may be wasting your talents as a mystery shopper....
On behalf of California and it's high taxes and many laws, it is also very people friendly. I and my children have lived in many other states. There are many that do not offer the types of safety nets and protections to residents that California does. When something bad happens it is very nice for the state/city to have your back. I know if I have a problem the state/city will help me out. My daughter has gotten decent health care as a lower income person, something not available in all states. Yesterday she moved to a new apartment in a new state only to find out the apt she rented online does not have any of the amenities or size she was promised. In California there would have been somewhere to handle this. We have government agencies concerned with clean air and other environmental concerns. Sometimes these benefits go further than some of us would prefer. I am not saying California has no faults. It certainly does.
As for the Assembly Bill, my reading of it says I am not an employee. But if it ends up I am I doubt the msc's will abandon California. This state is probably very lucrative for them and I cannot see them just turning their backs. After all they are able to get tens of thousands or more jobs done at base pay in our multiple large cities with an abundance of shoppers.
As for the Assembly Bill, my reading of it says I am not an employee. But if it ends up I am I doubt the msc's will abandon California. This state is probably very lucrative for them and I cannot see them just turning their backs. After all they are able to get tens of thousands or more jobs done at base pay in our multiple large cities with an abundance of shoppers.
@BuffaloNY101 wrote:
possible but would hope not even though I have yet to do a shop in CA.
New York state courts made a similar decision about a different industry earlier this year--before the pandemic.
No, it was called American Government 101, and I am trying to find out who has thin skin.
@SteveSoCal wrote:
@2stepps wrote:
California has always been the land of fruits and nuts when it comes to the politicians and the laws that get passed out there. I think it is time for a federal class-action law suite because this is stopping people's employment and also is against the commerce clause of the constitution.
Are you intending to be purposefully offensive to millions of people?
If you are an expert at constitutional law, you may be wasting your talents as a mystery shopper....
Business news sources say that both plan to shut down California operations.
Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
Yep and people are losing their @#$%& today because Lyft ends at midnight and uber will soon follow.@walesmaven wrote:
Business news sources say that both plan to shut down California operations.
A YES ON PROP 22 will end this nonsense once and for all.
For those outside of CA, please, what would a "yes" vote establish?
Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
If passed, California's Proposition 22 would exempt app-based transportation and delivery drivers from AB 5. So voting "yes" means you want to continue allowing people to be independent contractors for companies like Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, etc. However, I believe Prop 22 also includes some wage-guarantees and health-care contributions for those IC workers.
The uber and lyfts got a stay of execution. They can continue to operate under the old rules until the appeal is handled. So they are not closing down,
FYI the 2020 Democratic platform calls for applying the ABC test to all gig workers and reclassifying them as employees.
[www.presidency.ucsb.edu]
It's in the section entitled Raising Wages and Promoting Workers' Rights.
[www.presidency.ucsb.edu]
It's in the section entitled Raising Wages and Promoting Workers' Rights.
@panama18 wrote:
FYI the 2020 Democratic platform calls for applying the ABC test to all gig workers and reclassifying them as employees.
[www.presidency.ucsb.edu]
It's in the section entitled Raising Wages and Promoting Workers' Rights.
I think this would mean the end of mystery shopping as we know it.
@kenasch wrote:
@panama18 wrote:
FYI the 2020 Democratic platform calls for applying the ABC test to all gig workers and reclassifying them as employees.
[www.presidency.ucsb.edu]
It's in the section entitled Raising Wages and Promoting Workers' Rights.
I think this would mean the end of mystery shopping as we know it.
That is true (end of mystery shopping). It would be Nevada style, but occasional shoppers would likely be SOL.
Would this change have any unwanted effect on shopper objectivity?
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu
Would this change have any unwanted effect on shopper objectivity?
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu
Would this change have any unwanted effect on shopper objectivity?
OTOH, this would likely be similar to home health care agencies. Those companies vet and sign their workers, who are free to accept or decline assignments.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2020 01:07PM by Shop-et-al.
OTOH, this would likely be similar to home health care agencies. Those companies vet and sign their workers, who are free to accept or decline assignments.
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2020 01:07PM by Shop-et-al.
I personally like my IC status and would not like to be classified as an employee under the current employment system. But I agree with the California law in general. As long as health insurance, unemployment insurance, sick leave, retirement etc. are tied to employment, millions are left without a safety net as jobs that used to be manned by company employees are converted to contract labor. Maybe there are better solutions. But I see on here that many people are able to shop Nevada as part-time employees with no problems. I'm not sure what all the ruckus is about.
@mystery2me wrote:
I personally like my IC status and would not like to be classified as an employee under the current employment system. But I agree with the California law in general. As long as health insurance, unemployment insurance, sick leave, retirement etc. are tied to employment, millions are left without a safety net as jobs that used to be manned by company employees are converted to contract labor. Maybe there are better solutions. But I see on here that many people are able to shop Nevada as part-time employees with no problems. I'm not sure what all the ruckus is about.
Classifying Nevada mystery shoppers as "employees" has provided them with benefits and protections that non-regulated IC mystery shoppers in other states do not have. However, they still lack one important benefit that non-mystery shopping NV employees enjoy - health insurance. NV companies are still not required to provide heath insurance for their "employees."
Agreed. The whole MS model would be untenable. Companies would find other ways to get the feedback they require.
@kenasch wrote:
@panama18 wrote:
FYI the 2020 Democratic platform calls for applying the ABC test to all gig workers and reclassifying them as employees.
[www.presidency.ucsb.edu]
It's in the section entitled Raising Wages and Promoting Workers' Rights.
I think this would mean the end of mystery shopping as we know it.
So... umm... why does the Democratic platform call for this overreaching, invasive, and unnecessary change? Is it to simplify the process of assorting the masses so as to reduce the varieties and peculiarities that a free system should permit?
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu
It's the first step toward increasing the power of the unions and by extension their own. The platform also calls for repealing "so called" right to work laws, restricting the ability of employers to resist unions, making it easier for employees to unionize, implementing card check, and more. That's not to say that they could actually do all that if elected, but they want it known that they support those things. It's a very long document but worth reading some and scanning the rest. It is loaded with stuff that I find scary. Others will like it.
@Shop-et-al wrote:
So... umm... why does the Democratic platform call for this overreaching, invasive, and unnecessary change? Is it to simplify the process of assorting the masses so as to reduce the varieties and peculiarities that a free system should permit?
This is alarming. But it is the same old, same old. (I learned well from an articulate anti-unionist, back in the day.) I hope that today's anti's will prevail. The ideas always lurk...
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu
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