Have any of you caught COVID while mystery shopping?
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Huh?@Shop-et-al wrote:
@shoptastic: I am going to stop you there. You added something to someone else's words (mine). Please remove your added notions from my statements and then begin to think only about the few words that I posted. That is the starting point.
Are you sure that's me?
re: dementia
My dad has dementia, I think.
He doesn't forget things like words, people, memories, etc. (those are very solid), but frequently forgets to turn the faucet off (even with a big sign next to it saying to do so). I have no idea why this is. Why faucets?
He doesn't do this with the stove, lights or anything else. Faucets. Faucets everywhere.
He falls a lot too and cannot get up.
My dad has dementia, I think.
He doesn't forget things like words, people, memories, etc. (those are very solid), but frequently forgets to turn the faucet off (even with a big sign next to it saying to do so). I have no idea why this is. Why faucets?
He doesn't do this with the stove, lights or anything else. Faucets. Faucets everywhere.
He falls a lot too and cannot get up.
I don’t need to worry anymore about whether my last two indoor dining assignments are safe. Both clients canceled the shops this week.
CA?@NinS wrote:
I don’t need to worry anymore about whether my last two indoor dining assignments are safe. Both clients canceled the shops this week.
I got tired of the snippy attitude of the Coyle scheduler. She’s wasting everyone’s time. There is no leisure travel in CA under the Stay at Home order, yet she’s sending out requests.@shoptastic wrote:
CA?@NinS wrote:
I don’t need to worry anymore about whether my last two indoor dining assignments are safe. Both clients canceled the shops this week.
East Coast. Indoor dining is still open at limited capacity but these are national clients that are likely getting battered. One was the Mexican restaurant on Marketforce.
Interesting.@NinS wrote:
East Coast. Indoor dining is still open at limited capacity but these are national clients that are likely getting battered. One was the Mexican restaurant on Marketforce.
Yeah, it's maybe dicey going forward with scheduling. Until we get mass vaccination done (maybe by April 2021), shops might get suddenly cancelled as places surge and local orders curb business activity. I feel bad for routers. They have it hardest, as a few sudden cancellations could make a day-long multi-shop route unprofitable.
Dc and the close MD suburbs are putting new restrictions on or shutting down indoor and outdoor dining and a lot of other things. Fewer allowed into retail establishments at a time. The VA suburbs will not be far behind.
Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
re: VA
Northam has a curfew now and gathering limitations. The article said the curfew won't be enforced, though. lol It's meant to "encourage" people to not go out during htose hours.
Northam has a curfew now and gathering limitations. The article said the curfew won't be enforced, though. lol It's meant to "encourage" people to not go out during htose hours.
How's your son feeling? @SoCalMama
After quarantining myself for two weeks, I'm getting ready to dip my toe back into shopping next week. There are some apartment shops with REALLY good bonuses right now!
Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. Eleanor Roosevelt
Thanks for asking.@ColoradoShops wrote:
How's your son feeling? @SoCalMama
He was fortunate. He’s also incredibly healthy. He had a mild sore throat for 3 days and no other symptoms. All of the other 25+ people were sicker.
I’m in pretty good health. My husband would not survive if he got sick, so we are fortunate that he had no plans to come home for thanksgiving.
I shall keep your family in my prayers. My own dad is a very high risk person (elderly with heart disease). I know the constant feelings of fear. I have a list of people on this forum I pray for and have added you all.@SoCalMama wrote:
I’m in pretty good health. My husband would not survive if he got sick, so we are fortunate that he had no plans to come home for thanksgiving.
It's very naive to think that wearing cotton masks is bullet proof. Research shows the virus particles DO pass through cotton masks fairly easily. Were talking a .15 micron particle passing through even an N95 mask which is .30 microns.
Even healthcare professionals are warned against using cotton masks because there have been documented higher transmission rates with cotton than surgical masks.
The ideal way is to wear a sterile surgical mask for 20 min then switch out to a new one.
Most people don't wear masks the right way. There is LOTS of cross contamination when you take it off, place it elsewhere, put it back on, etc. You're transferring germs.
Infectious disease specialists even say that your highest risk factor of contracting Covid is being in close contact with an infected person for 15 minutes, mask or no mask.
Masks are not bullet proof.
Even healthcare professionals are warned against using cotton masks because there have been documented higher transmission rates with cotton than surgical masks.
The ideal way is to wear a sterile surgical mask for 20 min then switch out to a new one.
Most people don't wear masks the right way. There is LOTS of cross contamination when you take it off, place it elsewhere, put it back on, etc. You're transferring germs.
Infectious disease specialists even say that your highest risk factor of contracting Covid is being in close contact with an infected person for 15 minutes, mask or no mask.
Masks are not bullet proof.
@sparklesthekitty wrote:
It's very naive to think that wearing cotton masks is bullet proof. Research shows the virus particles DO pass through cotton masks fairly easily. Were talking a .15 micron particle passing through even an N95 mask which is .30 microns.
Even healthcare professionals are warned against using cotton masks because there have been documented higher transmission rates with cotton than surgical masks.
The ideal way is to wear a sterile surgical mask for 20 min then switch out to a new one.
Most people don't wear masks the right way. There is LOTS of cross contamination when you take it off, place it elsewhere, put it back on, etc. You're transferring germs.
Infectious disease specialists even say that your highest risk factor of contracting Covid is being in close contact with an infected person for 15 minutes, mask or no mask.
Masks are not bullet proof.
No, but they definitely help. I can't quite figure out you're actual point though.
Assuming you're accurate about COVID being .15 microns, would it not require a completely free floating one with enough wind gust to penetrate a mask blocking out .3 microns? What if the virus particle were part of a spit droplet (which is how they usually are when coming out of your mouth, no? - unless it's just "floating in the air" inside your mouth)?@sparklesthekitty wrote:
It's very naive to think that wearing cotton masks is bullet proof. Research shows the virus particles DO pass through cotton masks fairly easily. Were talking a .15 micron particle passing through even an N95 mask which is .30 microns.
Masks are not bullet proof.
a.) Does the spit/water droplet not "thicken" the particle's penetration diameter?
b.) Does a mask not decrease transmission, at least, if not perfect if everyone wears them. If an infected person wears one, would that not block out more droplets and/or particles coming from his or her nose and mouth than without wearing one and just talking/breathing as normal?
eta: I found this on Politifact:
[www.politifact.com] (see full article, as I'm just posting the summary points below)
@ wrote:
IF YOUR TIME IS SHORT
This attempt to discredit a fundamental piece of protective gear used and studied around the globe fails to account for several fundamental scientific principles.
The COVID-19 particle is small, but it always exists bonded to larger particles of water, protein, mucus and other materials expelled by breathing, coughing, etc. These are all well above the 0.3 micron size of the N95 filter.
The N95 filter also filters particles smaller than 0.3 microns very efficiently because particles under that size have a high amount of erratic movement and are electrostatically drawn to the mask fibers.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2020 02:50PM by shoptastic.
^^^So, yes, masks work well - even if not perfectly.
Japan is an interesting case. They have a heavy elderly population, did not have to fully shut down business, and have few deaths and few infections. It's possible they had a less infectious strain of COVID vs. Europe/NYC. But, we do know that their citizens cooperated with mask wearing. Many other nations wore masks, tested, traced, and isolated and have few deaths and infections.
We got the worst of it economically and medically. Most nations only took one hit and some, like South Korea, were doing quite well in both areas (until Dec. for them). The SK economy has been ramped up and their cases were flat for many months.
Japan is an interesting case. They have a heavy elderly population, did not have to fully shut down business, and have few deaths and few infections. It's possible they had a less infectious strain of COVID vs. Europe/NYC. But, we do know that their citizens cooperated with mask wearing. Many other nations wore masks, tested, traced, and isolated and have few deaths and infections.
We got the worst of it economically and medically. Most nations only took one hit and some, like South Korea, were doing quite well in both areas (until Dec. for them). The SK economy has been ramped up and their cases were flat for many months.
They only help with blocking out large respiratory droplets, such as through coughing or sneezing. A large portion of transmission occurs through asymptomatic carriers which do not produce large droplets but aerosolized droplets such as speaking.
@sparklesthekitty
I have not met anyone who thought masks are "bullet proof" A help to contain my large respiratory droplets is all it is. I am in favour of all the little things that help.
I have not met anyone who thought masks are "bullet proof" A help to contain my large respiratory droplets is all it is. I am in favour of all the little things that help.
When a flower doesn’t bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower.
Alexander Den Heijer
Alexander Den Heijer
Cotton masks block out large droplets to an extent, because they are not fully sealed around the nose and mouth.
A large portion of transmission occurs through aerosolized droplets. An asymptomatic carrier will not likely transmit the virus through a cough, but through speaking in close proximity (aerosolized).
Most nations? You're citing Japan and South Korea (which has seen a spike despite strict mask mandates). What about Italy? China? UK?
You're also taking about N95 masks which there is a deficit of and majority of street folks are not wearing. I'm talking about cotton masks and surgical masks. Even the non-surgical blue masks sold in stores enunciate a warning about not being a substitute for surgical masks.
A study in JAMA found that there was no significant decrease in Influenza transmission amongst surgical vs N95 mask wearing amongst HCP (no significant findings).
[jamanetwork.com]
A large portion of transmission occurs through aerosolized droplets. An asymptomatic carrier will not likely transmit the virus through a cough, but through speaking in close proximity (aerosolized).
Most nations? You're citing Japan and South Korea (which has seen a spike despite strict mask mandates). What about Italy? China? UK?
You're also taking about N95 masks which there is a deficit of and majority of street folks are not wearing. I'm talking about cotton masks and surgical masks. Even the non-surgical blue masks sold in stores enunciate a warning about not being a substitute for surgical masks.
A study in JAMA found that there was no significant decrease in Influenza transmission amongst surgical vs N95 mask wearing amongst HCP (no significant findings).
[jamanetwork.com]
Comparing SK to USA is not fair.
South Korea and Japan are extremely small compared to the USA territory.
Secondly, they are far more homogenous race and ethnicity wise than USA is.
African Americans, Latinos, and the elderly are the biggest at-risk groups for Covid.
Thirdly, there were hot spots in USA hit far harder than other areas, like rural, etc.
South Korea and Japan are extremely small compared to the USA territory.
Secondly, they are far more homogenous race and ethnicity wise than USA is.
African Americans, Latinos, and the elderly are the biggest at-risk groups for Covid.
Thirdly, there were hot spots in USA hit far harder than other areas, like rural, etc.
Except even the Forest Associations say that wearing masks do not block smoke inhalation particles.
You cannot compare the NBA which is comprised of how many people vs an entire country.
You cannot compare the NBA which is comprised of how many people vs an entire country.
I'm talking about COTTON masks and you're citing N95 masks.
Here's a JAMA article about N95 and surgical masks: [jamanetwork.com]
Here's a JAMA article about N95 and surgical masks: [jamanetwork.com]
Do you have a source for this?@sparklesthekitty wrote:
They only help with blocking out large respiratory droplets, such as through coughing or sneezing. A large portion of transmission occurs through asymptomatic carriers which do not produce large droplets but aerosolized droplets such as speaking.
See my Politifact quote above. Even breathing, which seems to involve less droplet expulsion than talking, produces COVID-bonded particles much greater than .3 microns.
It would seem rare to just have a completely free floating COVID particle (not bonded to anything - the article actually ways it's ALWAYS bonded to something) coming out of your mouth. I would think from the nose it could be more free floating (could be wrong).
Actually, you said N95 masks, but I see what you mean, I think. You're implying that that's a best case scenario and even then it wouldn't work (which my Politifact article disproves).@sparklesthekitty wrote:
I'm talking about COTTON masks and you're citing N95 masks.
Here's a JAMA article about N95 and surgical masks: [jamanetwork.com]
Technically, we both never said anything about cotton and we both specifically mentioned N95s.
What does a surgical mask block out in terms of particle sizing? From there, we'll need to know:
a.) If the typical/average COVID particle bonded to water/mucus/etc. is greater than that size.
b.) If electrostatic forces would also "bond" the particle to the inside of a surgical mask (making for harder escape) - a la the N95's for additional protection.
I appreciate you being polite.
I don't mean to come off as defensive but as someone questioning.
Here is what I question:
I've seen my neighbors and random people on the street wear dirty, wet stained blue masks (I'm gonna assume some are and some aren't legit surgical). How can ANY mask repeatedly reused with visible stains be protective than fresh air? Is there not a danger of cross contamination when that person takes off the mask? If I took a swab, ran it through the inside of the mask and then out it on some growth medium, what type of germs would it grow? Isn't ventilation far more effective than a mask esp in outside settings?
My neighbor has worn the same surgical mask for MONTHS. Spit droplets and a really bad smell emanates while I'm talking to him with a mask ON! I'm sure there are folks like that with COTTON masks that never or rarely wash them but think they're doing God's work. How effective is that?
I don't mean to come off as defensive but as someone questioning.
Here is what I question:
I've seen my neighbors and random people on the street wear dirty, wet stained blue masks (I'm gonna assume some are and some aren't legit surgical). How can ANY mask repeatedly reused with visible stains be protective than fresh air? Is there not a danger of cross contamination when that person takes off the mask? If I took a swab, ran it through the inside of the mask and then out it on some growth medium, what type of germs would it grow? Isn't ventilation far more effective than a mask esp in outside settings?
My neighbor has worn the same surgical mask for MONTHS. Spit droplets and a really bad smell emanates while I'm talking to him with a mask ON! I'm sure there are folks like that with COTTON masks that never or rarely wash them but think they're doing God's work. How effective is that?
re: Japan - It has a looser mask mandate, but full societal, voluntary cooperation.@sparklesthekitty wrote:
Most nations? You're citing Japan and South Korea (which has seen a spike despite strict mask mandates). What about Italy? China? UK?
In nursing homes, they don't even wear masks (Google this, as it's an amazing fact, given Japan's huge elderly population). Their "surge" is relative. If you go from 8 cases to 16 cases, you've increased 100%. But, in absolute terms, that's small. Japan has 125 million people and their recent surge is producing 2,000-2,500 cases a day. Virginia (my state) has 8.5 million people, but we've seen 3-4,000 cases a day recently.
re: SK - The spike has literally come in December for them after 8 months of flat growth. 8 months. They have 50 million people. Their "surge" is in the hundreds mostly to a peak of about 1,000 cases a day.
I don't know enough about UK/Italy/China. I do know in China that corporate executives were conducting business meetings w/o masks and water parks were filled with maskless people as they had so few cases. But, that's China and I don't trust their media.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2020 03:55PM by shoptastic.
I have not read that piece on bonded particles. Is there an actual research articles on it?
[www.cdc.gov]
[www.cdc.gov]
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