Ethical/Moral Question

Jasper, you indeed asked, "Just for fun...if you are doing I C jobs and stop to do personal errands (pay a bill, buy groceries, etc), are the miles personal or business?" Wales pointed out that there is a legal answer to this, and the answer is indeed black and white.

The City University of New York (and certainly others) has an entire course devoted to discussing ethics and the law. I refer you to that site: [www.qcc.cuny.edu]

Shopping Southeast Pennsylvania, Delaware above the canal, and southwestern NJ since 2008


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2022 07:22PM by myst4au.

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@JasperJohnson wrote:

The fact that the ticket is being purchased by the company rather than being reimbursed makes this more black and white. If you used your own card and own funds, it would be gray. A lighter shade of gray would be to use the second reimbursement on a personal / MS work plane ticket (I was told this would also be a way of not paying income tax on the reimbursement if double dipped).

@Capurato wrote:

My company is purchasing the flight for me (corporate credit card in my name) and I receive a receipt through the United App..

Would you answer change if that company that did the in-flight shops for United went from these terms to these terms with the assuming the flight 'purchased by the Capurato's company' is well over $75 per leg to begin with?

From this:
1. Reimbursement: up to $75, Fee: $25

To this:
2. Lump sum shoppers fee: $100

At the end of the day, it is up to the 1099 shopper to PROPERLY file net taxable income on their Schedule C.

Shopping the Greater Denver Area, Colorado Springs and in-between in Colorado. 31 year old male and willing to travel!
Just clicked on your link to CUNY... a glaring update must be made to the example section on abortion as birth control being possibly immoral but not illegal. I assume this was based on rules in the US , not just NY.

@myst4au wrote:

Jasper, you indeed asked, "Just for fun...if you are doing I C jobs and stop to do personal errands (pay a bill, buy groceries, etc), are the miles personal or business?" Wales pointed out that there is a legal answer to this, and the answer is indeed black and white.

The City University of New York (and certainly others) has an entire course devoted to discussing ethics and the law. I refer you to that site: [www.qcc.cuny.edu]
@Tarantado wrote:


Would you answer change if that company that did the in-flight shops for United went from these terms to these terms with the assuming the flight 'purchased by the Capurato's company' is well over $75 per leg to begin with?

From this:
1. Reimbursement: up to $75, Fee: $25
To this:
2. Lump sum shoppers fee: $100
.

@Tarantado
Depends, do you still have to upload the ticket the company paid for in the report or would there be another way of proving you were on the flight.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2022 08:32PM by JasperJohnson.
@JasperJohnson wrote:

@Tarantado wrote:


Would you answer change if that company that did the in-flight shops for United went from these terms to these terms with the assuming the flight 'purchased by the Capurato's company' is well over $75 per leg to begin with?

From this:
1. Reimbursement: up to $75, Fee: $25
To this:
2. Lump sum shoppers fee: $100
.

@Tarantado
Depends, do you still have to upload the ticket the company paid for in the report or would there be another way of proving you were on the flight.

The large, large majority of shops that require a purchase to compete the shop requires upload of a receipts as a proof of visit. So assume that you are still required to upload a receipt.

If you would prefer relevant examples, 360 Intel who typically have their shops lump sum fees, while others specify a reimbursement limit with (or without) fee.

So $45 lump sum fee for a restaurant visit vs. $35 reimbursement + $10 fee, where the required purchases will put your at a minimum $35. Better example?

Shopping the Greater Denver Area, Colorado Springs and in-between in Colorado. 31 year old male and willing to travel!


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2022 08:46PM by Tarantado.
I frequently conduct shops while traveling for work or pleasure. Unless it detracts from your work schedule/job function, I do not see a conflict. Personally, I enjoy doing a bar, restaurant and/or retail shops while I am in the airport waiting for my flight.
The black and white answer may be appropriate if I was asking how to report my mileage. Even if it is legal, it may not be ethical if you looked at it from the strictest view. If you want to be 100% good, you wouldn't claim mileage that you ARE allowed if it didn't cause you an extra expense. I think most people try to be about 80% good. I'm probably much lower. I prefer to live in the real world. I still color in the lines more than I should.

@myst4au wrote:

Jasper, you indeed asked, "Just for fun...if you are doing I C jobs and stop to do personal errands (pay a bill, buy groceries, etc), are the miles personal or business?" Wales pointed out that there is a legal answer to this, and the answer is indeed black and white.

The City University of New York (and certainly others) has an entire course devoted to discussing ethics and the law. I refer you to that site: [www.qcc.cuny.edu]
Some use a photo to show location rather than receipt so that is a possibility.

Again, it depends on whose card the purchase is made. Your card, your choice, your conscience.

Just checking...are we having a friendly back and forth or are you saying bad words as you type? Just friendly conversation on this side.

@Tarantado wrote:

@JasperJohnson wrote:

@Tarantado wrote:


Would you answer change if that company that did the in-flight shops for United went from these terms to these terms with the assuming the flight 'purchased by the Capurato's company' is well over $75 per leg to begin with?

From this:
1. Reimbursement: up to $75, Fee: $25
To this:
2. Lump sum shoppers fee: $100
.

@Tarantado
Depends, do you still have to upload the ticket the company paid for in the report or would there be another way of proving you were on the flight.

The large, large majority of shops that require a purchase to compete the shop requires upload of a receipts as a proof of visit. So assume that you are still required to upload a receipt.

If you would prefer relevant examples, 360 Intel who typically have their shops lump sum fees, while others specify a reimbursement limit with (or without) fee.

So $45 lump sum fee for a restaurant visit vs. $35 reimbursement + $10 fee, where the required purchases will put your at a minimum $35. Better example?
@JasperJohnson wrote:

Some use a photo to show location rather than receipt so that is a possibility.

Again, it depends on whose card the purchase is made. Your card, your choice, your conscience.

Just checking...are we having a friendly back and forth or are you saying bad words as you type? Just friendly conversation on this side.

My responses are never personal attacks, just challenges if it sounds a bit curt.

So the reason I’m bringing this up, I’ll just post direct examples on my actual shopping experiences over the years.

360 Intel (also known as Goodwin Hospitality back in the day) offers shops in lump sum WITH receipts required for pay.

I also shopped for the MSC at the airport. One of the MSC’s required receipts for reimbursement amounts, then the subsequent MSC overhauled the program with just needing receipts as a proof of visit where they provided “lump sum” fees that included expected amounts to spend at the location.

In addition, my full time work as an engineering consultant provided me with per diem in different ways over the years:
1. Lump sum “per day” amount.
2. With receipt for exact reimbursement.


There have been occasions, where 360 Intel’s restaurant shop overlapped with the airport shop route (including some times during work travel).

During the cases of lump sum fees and/or per diem, hope you see how it can be a really grey area, given you’re meeting the requirements for any work you committed to per their guidelines….

Shopping the Greater Denver Area, Colorado Springs and in-between in Colorado. 31 year old male and willing to travel!
Removed
Moderator Note:

MSC guidelines should always be followed. Any post suggesting otherwise will be removed.

@JasperJohnson - I’m filing your mystery shopping tales under “N” for “Never happened.”

You recently posted about frequently dealing with drug dealers at gas stations; I’ve been doing stations all over the USA from Miami to Seattle to L.A. for ten years and can count on one hand the times I’ve even had to think about dealers. It’s just not a thing.

Picking receipts up off the ground - likewise, Never Happened. The odds of you getting a receipt with the correct date, time and type of purchase (remember: no alcohol, no tobacco) are staggering.

Your story about asking bartenders for receipts w/o alcohol - umm, hello? In a bar? Again: the odds are staggering.

Normally I’d roll my eyes at this kind of dumb, attention-seeking posting- but you are giving out really terrible advice and telling shoppers complete whoppers. A novice could come by, read your Walter Mitty fabrications, and try to duplicate.

Kids, don’t listen to Jasper. He/she/they are attention seeking and telling some tall tales.
Long ago, when the menuboard pricing project paid decently and I was awarded entire districts, the pay was a flat fee. Receipt was required for address confirmation. You can bet your sweet patooties that I picked up any and all receipts I could find. As long as it was for the right place and timeframe It was saving me money. They were most easily found near the soda station. Even if I had spent only a dollar at each location, I saved hundreds by not doing so. Not to mention all the time it would take to get through a line for an actual purchase. And it made bookkeeping easier, no need to separate purchase expenses.

sestrahelena
That's okay if you want to troll me. I'm sure your other friends will be coming around soon to do the same.

@ColoKate63 wrote:

@JasperJohnson - I’m filing your mystery shopping tales under “N” for “Never happened.”

*** Attack ***
"You recently posted about frequently dealing with drug dealers at gas stations; I’ve been doing stations all over the USA from Miami to Seattle to L.A. for ten years and can count on one hand the times I’ve even had to think about dealers. It’s just not a thing."
*** Response ***
The post I was replying to was talking about a murder at a gas station and the shop going for $100. I can think of at least 4 shootings at gas stations in the near past. Who do you think are doing all these shootings? Like I said, these are all bonused jobs in convenient but not safe location.

*** Attack ***
Picking receipts up off the ground - likewise, Never Happened. The odds of you getting a receipt with the correct date, time and type of purchase (remember: no alcohol, no tobacco) are staggering.
*** Original Statement ***
I've picked up receipts off the ground if the reimbursement was only $1 and it was just to verify the correct address ......... If X is shopping Y, I don't worry.
*** Response ***
If you are shopping a busy location, there are receipts everywhere. There in shopping baskets, there near self-checkout, etc. People frequently buy drinks and leave the receipt. There were no restrictions on what could be purchased because it was just to verify the address.

*** Attack ***
Your story about asking bartenders for receipts w/o alcohol - umm, hello? In a bar? Again: the odds are staggering.
*** Response ***
Chain restaurants that sell gift cards use the bartender to do takeout orders. No alcohol on takeout orders.
I'm guessing, the bartender could print any receipt from the current day, not just the ones that dinned at the bar.

*** Attack ***
Normally I’d roll my eyes at this kind of dumb, attention-seeking posting- but you are giving out really terrible advice and telling shoppers complete whoppers. A novice could come by, read your Walter Mitty fabrications, and try to duplicate. Kids, don’t listen to Jasper.
*** Response ***
This was not advice. This was a discussion about moral and ethics, it's in the title. I started with, "this is going to curl some toes," giving people the indication that this was not "proper" procedure. I was not suggesting people do any of what was said. I agree, kids stay out of grown people's conversation.

@Tarantado
Now you know why I asked, "are we having a friendly back and forth or are you saying bad words as you type?" It's not like dancing, you only need 1 to argue, lol. I guess our conversation has come to an end because any comments will be trolled by the forum bullies.
Thank you for the post. Glad to be not the only one willing to admit it.

@sestrahelena wrote:

Long ago, when the menuboard pricing project paid decently and I was awarded entire districts, the pay was a flat fee. Receipt was required for address confirmation. You can bet your sweet patooties that I picked up any and all receipts I could find. As long as it was for the right place and timeframe It was saving me money. They were most easily found near the soda station. Even if I had spent only a dollar at each location, I saved hundreds by not doing so. Not to mention all the time it would take to get through a line for an actual purchase. And it made bookkeeping easier, no need to separate purchase expenses.
When I travel for my company, I use a American Express card. It is issued in my social security number but it is a corporate card in my name. When I'm done traveling I submit the receipts and receive the payment towards the bill from the company plus any out-of-pocket expenses. What are your thoughts on this one?
My thought is that this is a fairly common corporate practice. IMHO, it is both unethical and illegal to submit one of those receipts for a second "reimbursement" from an MSC. Is that what you are asking?
@foodluvr wrote:

When I travel for my company, I use a American Express card. It is issued in my social security number but it is a corporate card in my name. When I'm done traveling I submit the receipts and receive the payment towards the bill from the company plus any out-of-pocket expenses. What are your thoughts on this one?

Shopping Southeast Pennsylvania, Delaware above the canal, and southwestern NJ since 2008
It's not illegal. Might be immoral but definitely not illegal. And we are allowed to keep our earned hotel points, miles, credit card rewards, etc. And for what it's worth, my employer does not care if I submit my receipts to get other reimbursement.
If you are reporting the second "reimbursement" to the IRS as income, it is not illegal. If you are treating both payments as non-taxable reimbursements, it is illegal.
@foodluvr wrote:

It's not illegal. Might be immoral but definitely not illegal. And we are allowed to keep our earned hotel points, miles, credit card rewards, etc. And for what it's worth, my employer does not care if I submit my receipts to get other reimbursement.

Shopping Southeast Pennsylvania, Delaware above the canal, and southwestern NJ since 2008
@myst4au wrote:

My thought is that this is a fairly common corporate practice. IMHO, it is both unethical and illegal to submit one of those receipts for a second "reimbursement" from an MSC. Is that what you are asking?
@foodluvr wrote:

When I travel for my company, I use a American Express card. It is issued in my social security number but it is a corporate card in my name. When I'm done traveling I submit the receipts and receive the payment towards the bill from the company plus any out-of-pocket expenses. What are your thoughts on this one?

The irony is that schedulers that have lots of airport restaurant shops on their plate knowingly have a lot of work travelers that do exactly what’s described as double dipping….

Shopping the Greater Denver Area, Colorado Springs and in-between in Colorado. 31 year old male and willing to travel!
Go for the double dip!

"There's so much trouble in this world; surrounded by miracles" - Citizen Cope
I thought of this thread when I saw Warner Bros. has axed the $90 million "Batgirl" film planned for HBO Max because they will make more claiming as a loss on their taxes or something to that effect.

It puts some things in perspective.
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