@ServiceAward wrote:

I would rather a bunch of people spend a 1k trying to learn about the business, even if they get scammed, then to come here and learn legit about the business, and take up more jobs.

-speaking quietly- Service, this completely surprises me, considering it's coming from somebody who's all about helping people. I don't even know how to respond.

@hbbigdaddy wrote:

@Okie you are going to lose long term by trying to time the market. You cannot lose if you just put in a SP500 fund and leave it alone. It's the gold-standard to which all these money managers try to beat every year. Some do. Most do not.

Warren Buffet accepted a bet from a hedge fund manager on this topic. The hedge fund manager quit before the 10 years were up. [www.investopedia.com]

I love how my COST (costco) and CMG (chipotle) are doing.

@maverick1 is definitely correct. I earn more annually in dividends/appreciation than I do from my 6 figure salary. Yes, there will be bad years, but the market has always rebounded so far. Even with Covid in 2020, it came flying back. If you can't handle the ride, just put the $ in and close your eyes. You will be fine long term.

Yes, I'm mostly invested in the S&P500, some QQQ, some international, some REITs, some small caps, some treasuries, some individual stocks. I very rarely sell. I never "day trade." I track our holdings monthly. So far this year 11% gain. The average annual gain since 2013 9.74%. It has thankfully allowed us to retire early.

NOTE--Last night, my mouse died and I am unable to copy and paste until the store opens this morning. I did, though, wish to comment on SA's post.

I understand anyone's opinion concerning competition. Were I younger and/or in need, I am certain I would feel in a like manner. As neither is the case, if I can assist another shopper in locating work, it is my pleasure. I am NOT suggesting anyone else should share work. After all, this IS still business.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2024 12:14PM by shopperbob.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2024 12:12PM by shopperbob.

Shopperbob, When you said your mouse died, I thought you meant a pet! I was ready to offer my condolences...

Thank you Susan; it's the thought that counts.

@drdoggie00 wrote:

@ServiceAward wrote:

I would rather a bunch of people spend a 1k trying to learn about the business, even if they get scammed, then to come here and learn legit about the business, and take up more jobs.

-speaking quietly- Service, this completely surprises me, considering it's coming from somebody who's all about helping people. I don't even know how to respond.

Of course, I love to help people. But, I would not if it was going to potentially cause me not to be able to take care of those whom I love more.

You and others complain that the business is dying, fees are low, and it is no longer possible under most circumstances to continue to mystery shop full-time and take care of oneself and family. I agree with this. But it in no way helps me and family if I go out of my way to help the pool of shoppers grow. It only serves to push fees lower and forces me to move on to something else. Why would I help a group of people who have a spare $1k and want to spend it so they can make easy money? They are already off on the wrong track. They do not want to do actual work. They want to be lazy and make easy money. If one wants to chase that pipe dream, I'm not going to stop them by telling them, "No, come over here and talk to 'real' shoppers who will help you get started." First, they do not want to hear it. Second, it is going to hurt my own business - a business I need to support my family.

I am an extremely moral person, but I also have common sense. If my child and a stranger 80-year-old man are in the middle of the road, about to get hit by a bus, and there is only enough time for me to save one of them, who do you think I'll chose? My child, of course, because I love them more than I do the stranger 80-year-old man. Does that make me a bad person? Of course not. It just means I prioritize the safety and security of my child more than the safety and security of others. Just like with physical safety, the same goes for financial safety IMHO.

Companies are looking for all sorts of ways to trim the fat from their budgets. An easy one is to get rid of audits or mystery shops, or do them more infrequently. Or the MSC, in efforts to retain the business cut their normal fees, and have less to offer the typical MSer. All of which have the consequences we are experiencing. For me, it's feast or famine lately, but I'm more selective with my assignments.

some people seem to have to drag politics into every discussion....I prefer to discuss finance as a set of facts, not opinions......but you know the old expression - for the person who only holds a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Every sector goes through cycles, until completely disrupted or revolutionized....on the ground here, we see many examples of changes in the MS field...and it's far from over, but it will end as we know it and be replaced by something else ...so the best bet, if one seeks to continue that income stream is to look for ways to replace it with some thing else....technology is throwing off new stuff all the time.
There's something that cracks me up....all the bloggers that became monetizers and quit their jobs to live off YouTube or blog income....marketing themselves so people will pay them for their ideas...mostly mundane, repetitive, outright false or misleading...or just plain boring.
Whenever I see this public begging, I think to myself "so you don't want a regular job...but you want the people who do, to send you money, so you don't have to have one"....
Suckers born every day.

In 2005, I completed my first apt. assignment; it paid $40. This morning, I received an offer concerning apt. shops; the pay was $25. As I have opined in the past, until shoppers are no longer willing and/or in need, the movement to the bottom will continue.

On a slightly related note, I was no longer willing to pay the increases of dining out and shops of which I had an interest were not appearing. To my literal shock, an 11 yr. problem with my left knee no longer exists and my right knee pain is now merely a minor discomfort.

I have been mystery shopping for 20 years on and off. When I started, a shopper needed to read the job description completely and understand the requirements. Recently I see companies producing videos to explain assignments. Years ago, as a shopper, I relied on my memory and writing notes later in the car. Now, people use voice recorder and other digital tools. Years ago, narratives were longer and multiple choice was minimal. A shopper needed to know how to write instead of relying on Grammerly. I love the new technology, but I do think it allows more people to qualify and do jobs successfully. I am shocked when a job requirement is a rating of “5”. More mystery shoppers means lower pay. I am very selective with the jobs that I take because I want a fair wage for my work.

Well, there is a trend of data that has shown in the past that when the average increase in unemployment over a three month period exceeds 0.5% it signals the start of a recession. While the rate remains low, the rate of change is trending up.

We are on that glide path now...the economy is slowing.

I've also been at this for 20+ years and on both sides of the equation, and have seen a few patterns.

1. When unemployment is high, we get a lot of new shoppers entering the marketplace.
2. When earning vs. cost of living ranges lower, we get a lot of new shoppers entering the marketplace

The difference I noticed when working as an editor is that the cost of living issue during an employment boom nets better and more educated shoppers. They are usually employed elsewhere and looking for ways to cut down on household expenses. During times of heavy unemployment, new shoppers are looking more towards the fees and tend to drive pay rates down in competition for work.

The constant seems to be that once lowered, fees rarely, if ever, go back up. Most fees are equivalent to or lower than when I started in 2001, so basically all are lower when taking into account the average for salary increases since then.

Reimbursements have also taken a serious nosedive in the past 20 years. There was rarely an issue getting dinner assignments to come in under budget when I started, and purchase/return shops were rare. Most retail shops netted me product back then.

I have all but given up hope for any return to the way things used to be. So much would need to happen to bring us back to a place where MSCs had to once again compete to get qualified shoppers, and clients have always shown little interest in remunerating shoppers adequately. This is not neccisarily the death of the industry, but will probably result in the death of my interest in it. As it is, I only consider shops from a small handful of companies these days, when I was once active with over 100.

That said, we also live in a world where clients can now simply go to social media to see photos of their food presentations, and a majority of the younger generation feel like they are all restaurant reviewers, so there are new markets to get into if $$ and free food are what you are looking for. My step-son manages a pop-up restaurant and pays an influencer $600 + all the food they want every few weeks to drive business. Rise to the top of THAt game and it puts my long ago best year of $14k income and $50k reimbursement to shame....

I don't really have anything to add, but wanted to share a recent experience.

I saw a shop on the secret platform. It was a dine-in shop for seafood. It's popular in this area, and you're encouraged to get down and dirty to eat it. It has a Texas Roadhouse cult like following - popular among the older and younger crowds alike. It was a $100 flat payment. I was pre-determined to game the flat payment. I spent $40 and pocketed $60. I didn't really want to gorge. The shop got approved, and everything went well.

However, the shop got posted again. This time for a $40 flat payment. I checked on it later, and someone picked it up. I am not sure if these shops have always been historically $100 based on costs. Some questions that arose.

Did I just ruin the flat payment for future shoppers? Based on the popularity of this restaurant, it seems like anyone would pick up this shop, similar to what happens with Texas Roadhouse? If the shop were to go back to $100, would I do the same thing again? Most likely.

I don't know if there's really any solutions or who is culpable. Probably myself in this case, where maybe a majority of the flat payment should have gone toward the meal. To combat anything perceived as unfair, it seems like there needs a disciplined effort among a collective group, and the demand can't outweigh the discipline.

Here's the issue as I see it, @Okie, We are for the most part at the whim of the MSCs to negotiate on our behalf, but that's already a strained relationship where many MSC staff do not think highly of shoppers, and are struggling to keep as much profit as they can for themselves.

I do not have much faith in the general public to hold out for fair wages before taking assignments, either. Just take a look at the current issues with fast food wages. The employees were settling for unsustainable wages and it took interface from the government to drive wages up in many locations.

For years, MSCs have been terrified of having shoppers classified as employees, and threatened doom for the industry if that came about, but again, the fast food restaurants have said the same about wage increases. All I see in California is a re-alignment with fast food restaurants based on market demand. Some slow locations have been shuttered and the others all seem to remain in operation with minimal increases to food costs.

Would some MSCs go out of business if shoppers were reclassified as employees?...probably
Would there be a lot less shoppers in the pool if that happened?...definitely

I know that I am near the top of the food chain as far as shoppers go, so for me, I would probably benefit and work more if the dreaded employee classification was thrust upon MSCs. I don't see the situation changing without interference from an outside party, however.

Also, it's been suspected for years that many of the MSCs offering flat fees are actually getting reimbursed for the full check, since the food costs the restaurants pennies on the dollar. You probably did actually create an issue for the MSC in question of that was the case, and they are potentially making sure that doesn't happen again.

Solution = Don't accept 'flat fee' dining assignments. Everything should be full reimbursement + fee

As it applies to being an employee, my last such classification ended in Oct. of 1963 and I have refused ALL offers to become one since that time.

Many yrs. ago, JC & Associates was paying me flat fees to dine, not requiring a guest, permitting me to order at will and giving me a multi-day shop window. They were my favorite, as I was able to depart one eatery with a $20 fee. That MSC would not have been for Ipsolites though, as the pay was net 45 to 60.

If financially possible, work the system. I require my fee when a report is moderate to heavy on narrative. If an MSC desires a hard pull on my credit, I am more than willing at a double fee. Finally, it does not bother me in the least if my requirements are unacceptable. After all is said and done, this is STILL business.

An interesting conversation with a gas station owner: It was a small site, a few pumps and easy - a few photos of the restroom, interior, a pump, canopy, MID and overall with a $2 reimbursement for something inside.
The owner asked how much I got paid to do the shop. I told him. He was surprised at such a low amount.
He said he gets charged $250 for the inspection performed (granted it is minimal at best). He said if any part of the inspection fails his site, the failure fee doubles - $500!
I only do these types of shops when I can make a route of other shops and I'm passing by these. That's when it makes sense.
To me anyway.
SMH

@SteveSoCal wrote:

Solution = Don't accept 'flat fee' dining assignments. Everything should be full reimbursement + fee

Some interesting points. But that's the thing, if another shopper is willing to accept the worse conditions without a second thought, the slope downward continues.

There's been some talk in this thread about the MSC trying to get a shop completed for the least amount of money. To me, I can't help but feel how off-putting that is. I do get the it's business sentiment.

Maybe it's because as I've been going through the salary negotiation phases recently, I'm reminded of some events I came across in the past on the internet. I can't find the exact references. But to summarize, a recruiter had publicly celebrated giving an applicant significantly less than the range for a position. The recruiter got a lot of backlash from the recruiter and talent acquisition community. Another event where a recruiter accidentally copied an applicant about a planned lowball offer they thought the applicant would accept. I always respected recruiters who were transparent about ranges from the beginning and extended offers based on worth.

Totally get what I am talking about here is not the same. But I wanted to share one instance I had from a scheduler where I was restricted from working on a client. She offered to lift the ban if I did a shop 200 miles from where I lived with no bonus at base pay. I respectfully replied to her email that I could not. Only to maintain a working relationship on other clients. But when you throw out lowball offers like that, that leaves a lasting impression.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2024 04:46PM by Okie.

@ServiceAward wrote:

I think we met the something else a few weeks ago . . . for some reason, this board wanted to save a bunch a people from spending a bunch of money and send them over here. Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot is beyond my ability to comprehend, and I am a smart guy!

To what incident are you referring? I have no idea what it could be.

@maverick1 wrote:

@BarefootBliss wrote:

If you follow any of the financial news channels, a few common themes have emerged - one is that the US has increasingly become divided and no, we're not talking along political lines. We're talking income....while the stock market booms and showers investors with blessings, wage earners aren't getting any relief yet at the cash register....read the WSJ, watch CNBC commentary - it's all there - none of this is a surprise.
It would kill me to have to depend on MSing for an income....I am grateful whenever I find easy jobs that give me spare money for iced coffee....one of my splurges and again, grateful....if people need an income, I seriously suggest other venues, not this one. Thankfully jobs are hiring and gig work is always there when MSing dries up - for those who are looking.

Overall, all good observations that I agree with in general. I'd also add that the main stream media is very left-biased leaning today including the publications you mentioned. It pays to read a variety of viewpoints from differing perspectives.

Yes, investment income is the place to be. I receive more income / appreciation in assets from investments now than I did during my W2 earning years. It was the renowned scientist and theoretical physicist Albert Einstein who said, “Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it … he who doesn't … pays it.” These words are reflected by investor Warren Buffett, who is most associated with the basic wealth building strategy.

There have always been investment opportunities. I remember my dad telling me as long ago as the 60's money begets money. He would tell me that because around that time banks were literally giving away items if you opened an account. He also walked into a bank where he had an account one day and the manager, ,who was someone he would often chat with, took him to lunch. He was amazed that just by having a bank account he got a free lunch, something most people had to pay for. Now they give you cash for opening accounts and have hoops to jump over. Then they gave toasters etc. These were small things but my dad was very impressed by them.
But now the middle class, if they do not spend every penny they earn, have opportunities to invest in stocks and bonds without paying big commissions. It is true about the gap getting wider between the top and the bottom but the middle class is now able to reap some of the benefits of investing that was not available to them until pretty late in the last century. The internet has changed a lot too giving people a way to learn where to go and how to invest. A lesson they probably would not have gotten at home unless their parents were wealthy. So some things have changed for the better.

I just read this entire thread this morning for the first time. I am really impressed with the well thought out and written posts. It is so refreshing to see this topic approached with thoughtful responses rather than the usual people complaining that the msc makes a lot of money and they do not understand why the msc will not give them the same $100 they got a few months ago on a routine basis as soon as the jobs are available because it is a long trip for them.
Yes it is business on both ends.
However there are a few things I would to contribute.
I do definitely agree that fees have not increased and indeed have gotten lower over the time I have been shopping however I think some, not all, of this is due to the fact that the jobs now have certain advantages to the shopper allowing them to do more work in less time. It is difficult to do a straight comparison to a fee one may have gotten 20 years ago for the same job. The job is not the same. Today you can carry your phone around and input your jobs from anywhere with an internet connection. You do not have to handwrite out a long report and mail it in and than wonder if they got it. (That may have been more than 20 years ago) It is not necessary any more to print out pages and pages of instructions for every job or make a detailed cheat sheet because you can just open it up on your phone from anywhere. Shoppers can and do sometimes start to enter their jobs while still on site or directly afterwards. I remember route shoppers reporting that they carried around a small printer in their car and also had to find libraries and other places with an internet connection in order to do the jobs in the field. Hotels and motels if they did have an internet connection often charged a fee to use it, or you had to go down to the little office they provided for overnight guests. Even for city shoppers like myself I can easily look up addresses and make a sensible city route for myself now. I can look up restaurant prices to see if the job is worthwhile before accepting it. I can check the best way to get from here to there and in what order quickly using my computer. And don't discount the ease of cell phone cameras and how easy it is to capture what you need and check the photo instantly...I used to use a digital camera but everything about that took more time. And before i started shopping there were not many digital cameras around.
So yes, fees have not gone up with inflation but comparing just a fee from years ago for a job that may have taken twice as long to do without modern technology is not really a fair way to look at it.
I also want to add that it galls me that the fees are exactly the same in my high priced city where traffic moves at 13 or 14 mph and you have to park blocks away to avoid parking charges that are not reimbursed. The minimum wage here is three times what it is in some other parts of the country. That makes no sense to me but yet jobs are snatched up without bonuses so the scales are tipped right now in favor of the msc. Hopefully that will change as full time shoppers who are having trouble making ends meet start to give up on this industry.

@shopnyc wrote:

@ServiceAward wrote:

I think we met the something else a few weeks ago . . . for some reason, this board wanted to save a bunch a people from spending a bunch of money and send them over here. Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot is beyond my ability to comprehend, and I am a smart guy!

To what incident are you referring? I have no idea what it could be.

The Kayla woman and her "LOL" schemes.

Yes, only when people start giving up on this industry will fees increase. That covers it in a nutshell. The changes will have to come not from within mystery shopping, but from other areas that give shoppers better alternatives, whether it be better income opportunities or an enhanced safety net. One thing I learned as a shopper is whenever I negotiated my fees, I always did the best when I had so much work already I was hoping they would reject my offer. Only when enough shoppers are in a position to say no will fees increase.

SA opines--Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot is beyond my ability to comprehend, and I am a smart guy!

Bob responds--I derive pleasure from sharing aspects of the business other folks may find useful. I do not criticize SA for the above position, as each person must attend to themselves. So, I enjoy myself and fire away!

Seems to me that it could be a wash? i.e. due to technology some shops may now take less time to complete, but I think the value of our time (collectively) has gone up quite a bit, especially in the last few years, strictly due to inflation and the time cost of money.

someone who may have valued their time at $10 per hour 20 years ago, may now need to earn at least $30/hour to have the same purchasing power (roughly as an illustration).

As a side note, I often find myself noting how the cost of some things (mostly groceries, restaurant meals, housing, travel costs) have gone up tremendously and yet when I account for inflation, I am paying much less now for decent clothing or telecommunications services.

When she was a kid thinking about her future, I always used to stress to my daughter that a person never gets ahead without special skills that are in demand...unless they own their own business. For this reason, cashiers, custodians, and similar work categories can't make demands unless they're in a union. Dime a dozen - just like mystery shoppers - as far as I can tell, the only category of MS that requires skill are the jobs with a good amount of narrative - particularly for clients that demand strong traditional writing skills - and we can see where that's going.... the world turns and we watch.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2024 03:15AM by BarefootBliss.

@shopnyc wrote:

@ServiceAward wrote:

I think we met the something else a few weeks ago . . . for some reason, this board wanted to save a bunch a people from spending a bunch of money and send them over here. Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot is beyond my ability to comprehend, and I am a smart guy!

To what incident are you referring? I have no idea what it could be.

Some TickTok mindrot bozo is calling themselves a "mystery shopper" and telling people they can make a lot of money if they only send her 1K first for training and crap. A bunch of us clowned on her for a while and tried to direct any legit person following her, pretty sure most of her "followers" are bots, to come here for real information.

For me I value my time a lot more than even $30 so like some others have said I like reimbursement shops if is something I would like to have. That is worth a lot more to me as I am in a higher tax bracket in a high tax state so I avoid a double taxation. Assuming the reimbursement increases with the increased cost at restaurants and other retail the amount of he fee is not as important but there have been several nice sounding restaurant shops lately where the reimbursement does not even cover the cost of the cheapest items. If the reimbursement does not cover I would rather choose where I eat and pay myself with no report.If it does cover a mid range meal I feel it is keeping up with the higher prices.
There do not seem to be as many shops like that as there used to be but maybe I just need to find other msc where they have gone to altho I have not seen the "good shops" discussed much on the forum..ones I do not know already.
I do know tho that many mystery shoppers need the income and I agree that fees are certainly not keeping up. It's a hard way to make a living. Kudos to those of you who have been successful doing so.