I'm all for waitstaff earning a fair living, but some of the mandatory tipping minimums on mystery shops are grating on my nerves. The Outback shops require a minimum 20% tip regardless of service, and I just came across shops for a different client in Austin that require a 25% gratuity.

It just feels like it's getting a little excessive. I was always told that you tip 15% on the subtotal before tax, then over time, that went to 18%; now 20% on the taxed total is standard? I know everything's gone up, but having 25% tacked on to your total seems a bit much.

Service at the Outback here in Podunk is marginal at best. There is no way I would leave that much gratuity on a non-shop visit.

I appreciate the companies that still do 15-20%. I will tip 20% if they do something more than just the minimum. 15% is what they get when they take my order, bring food and process the check If that is all the effort you put in, then I give 15%.

I don't remember what shop it was, but it was 20% mandatory tip. I reamed the server in the report. If you are going to make me tip excessively for mediocre service, then I'm going to nail a server for every little nit-picky thing I can. The server was worth of 17% in this particular scenario. A little better then 15%, but not deserving of the full 20%. Plus I came out of pocket on this shop, so I was more incensed about that.

I think 20% is acceptable for good service when on my dime.

I will tip to the maximum reimbursement when on a shop regardless of the quality of service.

But i think 25% is excessive in any occurrence.

Some companies don't like shoppers doing that. I know Coyle doesn't like it (they instruct shoppers not to) and there are a few others I can't think of right now. For those who don't care, I tip whatever gets up to the maximum reimbursement. One Outback server must've been really happy after I tipped 47% to hit max reimbursement because a dish got comped for late delivery.

I think tipping and expectations of wait staff in general have gotten out of control.
My 18yr old son went out to dinner with us (he is usually too busy to hang with us lame family, lol) and he was embarrassed that we requested refills on our soda! He then wanted to tip extra (we left 15% as the service was just standard, no real effort put in by server) because in his words "we made her do so much like bring more drinks" (one refill)

Pew did some research on this question.
[www.pewresearch.org]

I had a shop a couple months ago. I was asked by the server if I wanted bread. We did. At the end we were charged an additional $28 for the bread and refill plus a 21% service charge. On the final screen was the option to add a 20%, 25%, or 30% tip. The restaurant had opened 6 months before and was standing room only. On this visit we were the only patrons. The report was not particularly complimentary.

@Msilk wrote:

I had a shop a couple months ago. I was asked by the server if I wanted bread. We did. At the end we were charged an additional $28 for the bread and refill plus a 21% service charge. On the final screen was the option to add a 20%, 25%, or 30% tip. The restaurant had opened 6 months before and was standing room only. On this visit we were the only patrons. The report was not particularly complimentary.

Wow. At the places I eat the most expensive item on the menu doesn't even hit $28. -lol-

$14 for the first “complimentary”bread and another $14 for the refill. Oh yes, it did come with a small ramekin of olive oil. I thought I had calculated the bill to be right around reimbursement but the 21%tip (vs 18% plus or minus I planned) and the bread threw it way over reimbursement.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2024 04:08PM by Msilk.

I see a lot of restaurants in my area moving to POS systems where you select a tip percentage and it auto-calculates the tip...but the big change in recent years is from the three options being 15/18/20% to 20/22/25%, and even some that go up to 30%!

My personal take on this is that coming out of the COVID shutdown, people started tipping higher to show appreciation for servers coming back to work and having to put up with the new protocols. And most consumers were getting extra $$ every month, and just happy to go out again.

Young adults who entered the tipping phase of their lives during this time now seem to feel that 25-30% is standard. And that to-go orders somehow warrant a 20% tip. Buffets and to-go was always closer to 10% in the past.

There's one Coyle client that made a change to the 20/22/25% tipping system, and calculates the tip on the post tax amount, so even a 20% tip in CA comes out closer to 22%. The tipping guidelines for the shop were 18-20%, so it was basically impossible to tip within the acceptable range, and I was getting docked a few $'s on each shop, until I complained and had the tipping range adjusted for that client.

I had one shop where the guidelines permitted a tip up to 18%. My itemized receipt from the restaurant had three suggested tips: 20%, 22%, and 25%!

For better or worse, 20% tip is standard in my part of the country and I’m happy to pay it, but I truly can’t deal with a restaurant suggesting a minimum tip higher that the maximum they’ll reimburse in a shop.

I feel for servers. Their Federal minimum wage is $2.13 per hour. I will ALWAYS tip, doesn't matter what the quality of the service is. Everybody has bad days, and if a tip brightens their day, then I've made a difference. If the service is exceptional, I'll ask the server who gets the tips. If they are subject to tip sharing (which is illegal), I'll slip them a $20 so that no one can see, and I'll put a 10% tip on the check. I don't much care if the restaurant thinks I'm cheap..

Mystery shopping is different. I'll do the required tip on the check, and if the server does an exceptional job, I'll hand them some cash too (happened once at a Red Lobster that also did tip sharing). But so far, mystery shopped restaurants, like Outback, aren't training their servers and they just don't know what they are supposed to be doing for the customers.

I often ask if the server gets tips at the end of their shift. If not I'll tip in cash vs. Putting it on the credit card. They get it today, spendable and not taxed unless declared.

It is a very messy topic here in the US. Every state has different rules on pay for restaurant workers in different categories, restaurants have different rules for how tips are split and unless you ask those questions of your server there is no answer to what is fair.
All I know is that in my state servers earn a lot more than mystery shoppers do and more than many of the low end jobs workers who eat there do. I have been a server and while it was not a pleasant job it was no worse than many other jobs. So while I feel for those servers earning $2.13 an hour I do not feel the same way in my state where those who change diapers, clean up and care for both ends of the age spectrum earn a lower wage and pay taxes on their entire income in addition.

@ServiceAward wrote:

@drdoggie00, Some employees may have to get on their knees in the hot sun and clean the parking lot. Shouldn't they get an extra 5% for that hard work?

Sure, but you know who they should be getting it from?

Their employer.

I'm in the same city at @sandyf, where minimum wage for tipped workers is $16/hour and the average cost of dinner for 2 at a mid-range restaurant is $120, my average check on a shop is closer to $200, and sales tax is nearly 10%...so pushing tips into the 25% category feels excessive to me, and I don't work for any companies that would reimburse 25% tips.

That said, when directed how to tip on a shop, you should just follow the guidelines. MSCs don't want the shopper to be memorable for tipping too much or too little.

It says clearly in the labor laws that non-tipped employees, like cooks, and bussers who are paid more than the Federal Minimum wage, are not entitled to tips or tip pooling/sharing.

And my opinion is that earned tips are for the server who earned them, not split between all of the servers. But Red Lobster didn't do that, they gave a percentage of the tips to the cooks and bussers who do not get server wages and don't depend on tips.

From the US Dept of Labor:

Notice to Tipped Employees: Employers must provide the following information to tipped employees before taking a tip credit under the FLSA:

the amount of the direct (or cash) wage the employer is paying a tipped employee, which must be at least $2.13 per hour;

the additional amount claimed by the employer as a tip credit, which cannot exceed $5.12 (the difference between the minimum required direct (or cash) wage of $2.13 and the current minimum wage of $7.25);

that the tip credit claimed by the employer cannot exceed the amount of tips actually received by the tipped employee;

that all tips received by the tipped employee are to be retained by the employee except for a valid tip pooling arrangement limited to employees who customarily and regularly receive tips;

and that the tip credit will not apply to any tipped employee unless the employee has been informed of these tip credit provisions.

Actually it is $17.28 as of Jan 1 in LA but I have heard from those I know and window signs many places are paying $20 an hour and up to $22 for tipped positions. And if you are in West Hollywood, CA $19.08/hour (as of 7/1/2023) . Servers get the same min wage as everyone else in the state but there are higher carve outs for non tipped. Panda is advertising up to $23 for servers in the local window.
I agree with Steve about shops. There is the usual saying that if you dont like the rules dont take the shop.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

I'm in the same city at @sandyf, where minimum wage for tipped workers is $16/hour and the average cost of dinner for 2 at a mid-range restaurant is $120, my average check on a shop is closer to $200, and sales tax is nearly 10%...so pushing tips into the 25% category feels excessive to me, and I don't work for any companies that would reimburse 25% tips.

That said, when directed how to tip on a shop, you should just follow the guidelines. MSCs don't want the shopper to be memorable for tipping too much or too little.

lol Sandy,

some of us are in backwoods, backwards states where the Federal minimum wage is still the only minimum wage law.

But the cost of living is far less as well.

@Morledzep wrote:

lol Sandy,

some of us are in backwoods, backwards states where the Federal minimum wage is still the only minimum wage law.

@Morledzep wrote:

some of us are in backwoods, backwards states where the Federal minimum wage is still the only minimum wage law.

And somehow MSC policies and many client standards are nationwide, despite the staggering difference in pay rates.

While I know it's cheaper to live outside of CA, but don't think 10x cheaper anywhere, and I don't think anyone is getting a dinner for two for $12, so how are we to judge the service standards across the dining spectrum when remuneration is not standardized?

@sandyf wrote:

And if you are in West Hollywood, CA $19.08/hour (as of 7/1/2023).

Thanks for the info, Sandy. I learn something new every day. I did notice a bit change in parking rates in WeHo at the top of the month and that might be connected.

I was also required to pay $23+tip for parking on a MS Friday night in West Hollywood, and the tipping options on the screen they handed me when I paid were $3, $5, $10 & $20! The MSC policy for valet service tips is $2, so yet another disconnect in required tipping vs. MSC reimbursement.

Servimer valet shops allow you to tip up to $5 and explain why (upscale hotel/etc)

@SteveSoCal wrote:

@Morledzep wrote:

some of us are in backwoods, backwards states where the Federal minimum wage is still the only minimum wage law.

And somehow MSC policies and many client standards are nationwide, despite the staggering difference in pay rates.

While I know it's cheaper to live outside of CA, but don't think 10x cheaper anywhere, and I don't think anyone is getting a dinner for two for $12, so how are we to judge the service standards across the dining spectrum when remuneration is not standardized?

@sandyf wrote:

And if you are in West Hollywood, CA $19.08/hour (as of 7/1/2023).

Thanks for the info, Sandy. I learn something new every day. I did notice a bit change in parking rates in WeHo at the top of the month and that might be connected.

I was also required to pay $23+tip for parking on a MS Friday night in West Hollywood, and the tipping options on the screen they handed me when I paid were $3, $5, $10 & $20! The MSC policy for valet service tips is $2, so yet another disconnect in required tipping vs. MSC reimbursement.

Yes Steve, I have noticed on the non Coyle shops we get offered the same $7 fee (and generally those are gone quickly with no bonus) here as those of you who live in the "backwoods". So there is a glaring difference in the fees on mystery shops here where rents are much higher and gas is several dollars a gallon higher and we often have to pay as much to park as the fee for the shop with no parking reimbursement. Even many shopping centers charge to park...by the 15 minutes sometimes where it takes 15 minutes just to find the floor your car is on.
So I am wondering why then I am paying a huge tip to a server or valet who already is earning more than I am . (As a disclosure I personally have other sources of income but many others do not.)

Here ya go viv.. our cost of living is less in AL but not so significantly that a minimum wage job will cover the minimum that a single person needs to survive here.

living wage by state: [finance.yahoo.com]

Tipping pre-tax is more conventional. When I go to restaurants that calculate the tip at the bottom of the receipt, it is usually pre-tax. However, I have seen some post-tax, but it is much more rare, and I don't think it is right. Tax is not part of the service, and tax rates can vary. Some plates can be as low as 4-6%, and then some can be getting into over 10%. In Canada, they have similar tipping conventions, and you get taxed 15% in Ontario.

And then there are some people that don't care or think about these things and just look at the total and tip.

@Okie wrote:

@melg wrote:

Pew did some research on this question.
[www.pewresearch.org]

Overlooked this earlier, some interesting factors. What doggie had mentioned, I was curious if people usually tip pre or post tax.

@Okie wrote:

@melg wrote:

Pew did some research on this question.
[www.pewresearch.org]

Overlooked this earlier, some interesting factors. What doggie had mentioned, I was curious if people usually tip pre or post tax.

I tip based on the full amount of the items I ordered, pre-discount. I don’t think tax should ever be tipped on. That amount didn’t cause the waitstaff to do additional work or anything extra for me, nor is it a tangible item. It would be like figuring a tip with the 21% service charge included. (Is that how they do it at those places?) When I use a POS device and look at their suggested/pre-figured tips, they’re always based on the total including tax. I open the calculator, figure it pre-tax, then leave a custom amount.

@drdoggie00 wrote:

I tip based on the full amount of the items I ordered, pre-discount. I don’t think tax should ever be tipped on. That amount didn’t cause the waitstaff to do additional work or anything extra for me, nor is it a tangible item. It would be like figuring a tip with the 21% service charge included. (Is that how they do it at those places?)

Unfortunately yes...the mobile POS systems only take the final cost into consideration when calculating the tip, so it includes everything; taxes, service charge, etc.

I have often gotten pushback when ordering bottles of wine as well, since there are a few schools of thought on tipping for that. One camp says that if you can afford a $500 bottle, you should be able to afford the 20% tip on it, but another says there little difference between serving a $50 bottle and a $500 bottle.

When I order a bottle of wine, I always ask the server what the corkage fee at the restaurant is, and tip based on that, since it's clearly what the restaurant had deemed the service of serving wine to be worth.

And the issue with adjusting the tip on the POS device is this; I have an assignment I do regularly, and it's the location that suggests a minimum 20% tip based on the post tax total. It's an exclusive and expensive client, but the reimbursement limit is based on ALL of the clients restaurants, with this one being the most expensive, so I am often pushing up against the reimbursement limits. Since the MSC sends me in repeatedly, the #1 rule is "Act natural and don't stand out" ...but the other guests at this location are exceedingly wealthy and could care less about tipping an extra $20 (I regularly see them hand $20's the valet staff), so I will unquestionably stand out if I make a manual adjustment to the tip amount in the POS system, and don't want to lose this client from being suspected as the shopper.

My ultimate answer is just ordering from the lower end of the menu there, or not getting that second glass of wine with dinner. The valet staff are completely on to me now that I have been going there for more than a year. They are subcontractors for the client so I don't think they suspect me as a shopper, but just consider someone who is incredibly cheap. On my last visit, they just automatically skipped the section where you can leave a tip in the POS system and waved off the $2 cash I tried to hand the valet.