I had an apartment shop with a targeted agent (don't ask me why I selected a targeted agent shop - I asked myself that the day after I signed up for it.)

Long story short - I was unable to reach the target agent. When the client looked into it, they found out that he was going to be out for a while and were canceling the shop for now. The shop is now gone from my shop log.

Now, while I was unable to complete the shop due to the target agent not being available, I still made 14 phone calls in an attempt to reach him. Personally, I feel like I should be compensated, even if it's a reduced shop fee, for my time spent doing this.

I'm curious as to what any of you would expect in this situation, or if you have been in this situation before and what the outcome was.

Basically all you can do is ask for everything and expect nothing. Its not going to hurt to contact your scheduler and explain how much time you spent trying to reach the target and if they would be willing to compensate, worst thing they could say is "no".

roxygirlie1021 Wrote:
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> I had an apartment shop with a targeted agent
> (don't ask me why I selected a targeted agent shop
> - I asked myself that the day after I signed up
> for it.)

I find that I ask myself that question for a bunch of shops too. Learning though, not to accept some of them anymore.


However, I once drove an hour through rush hour traffic in LA to find the restaurant was closed. I was supposed to make a phone call ahead to make reservations, but it's a recording with no one available, EVER, and they don't make reservations. I even called the scheduler about this ahead of time and she told me I would be fine. Because I couldn't reschedule the shop for the next day, 1)I did not get a dime from them 2)I got a black mark on my record as a 'cancellation' for this shop. I personally hate that company and for a while I wasn't able to self schedule because of my 'cancellation history' (one shop).

dkk, you should let us know who the company is. I would consider not working for them, after such a lack of consideration to the shopper.

I think it all depends on the company and the scheduler. I had a targeted video shop several years ago. It was my first video shop, using borrowed equipment, and I was so nervous!

I called and called, up to and through the deadline: Black Friday. I contacted the scheduler and told her I wasn't able to get anything but voicemail at this place, and it was an hour's drive. She advised me to try a couple more times on the phone, and if I didn't reach the target, I had done more than enough to try.

I left a voicemail for the target at the scheduler's request, and never heard back until the following Tuesday. That leasing agent was supposed to be at the office on Friday, but must have taken off for a day of shopping. I got paid for the shop even though I never so much as stepped out my door.

patnewman Wrote:
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> dkk, you should let us know who the company is. I
> would consider not working for them, after such a
> lack of consideration to the shopper.

I would never call more than 5-6 times over two days before calling the scheduler to ask permission to ask for the target, or for the MSC to confirm the target's current schedule/employment status. As shoppers, we have to set boundaries concerning the level of effort that we put in before questioning the economics of the situation!

I completely agree with Walesmaven. I've been fortunate in that although my apt. shops total almost 300, I've only encountered this problem with 2 assignments, each after I had a favorable reputation with the MSC. On both occasions, I was given permission to ask for the target.

A quick comment: Absolutely never accept an apt. shop for one of the bargain MSCs, BestMark et al, where you'll work your arse off for less than $20. EPMS pays me from $40 to $70, depending upon what's involved and their need to have the job completed. You might still work your fanny, but $50 beats $17.

I just started doing the apartment shops and the MSC has been very flexible with due dates. It's sometimes hard to do the visit the same day you finally, in most cases, reach the target especially when the client specifies several hours between the phone call and on-site visit. The update section has an option in the drop down box "target no longer works there" or some such thing. So, I asked the scheduler how do you know if the target no longer works there if you can't ask for the target. The scheduler said they will eventually tell me to ask for the target but I hadn't "got there yet." The only problem I have is calling 3-5 times a day. I think that's excessive especially if the same person answers the phone every time which happened to me on my last shop. Eventually, tbey're going to recognize your voice. Also, if you're doing other shops, who really has the time to be making that many phone calls for one shop (they specify do not call from your car, etc.).

avitoots,
When calling multiple times in a day, adopt an accent when asking if you have reached Walmart, etc. Or, hang up when someone of the wrong gender answers the phone. Or say, sorry, wrong number, again in an accent, or mumbled.

You know some have to figure it's shoppers when they suddenly get a bunch of such calls. LOL

The calls are recorded and hang ups aren't allowed. Though I can do voices, not sure it would be acceptable.

TechSavvy -- That's exactly why I limit the number of calls per day. Besides,I have other thngs to do during the day.

Realistically ~ the MSP doesn't want the shopper's cover blown anymore than the shopper, and we share the desire to reach and shop the target. I have never dealt with an MSP who has unreasonable expectations of reaching the target. Asking for the target is usually the last resort, but it's a card that's played when no more than five or ten minutes of the shopper's time has been spent. If that's not the case, forget the MSP.

The MSC had me ask for the target agent 3 separate times! I kept trying to tell the scheduler that the employees I spoke with told me the target agent would not be back in for a while, and she kept saying that the client wanted me to keep trying. After the 3rd time asking for him by name, the employee on the phone got a bit hostile with me, wanting to know who I was and why I was calling and why I wanted to talk to him. I told the MSC that I couldn't ask for him by name again and still keep my identity secret (at that point, they HAD to know I'm a secret shopper.)

And I heard back from the MSC. No pay So 14 phone calls, and at least 30-45 minutes of my time, and I get nothing.

I want to keep shopping for this particular company, because I have enjoyed working with them in the past, but I can't help feel a bit taken advantage of in this situation.


Mert Wrote:
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> Realistically ~ the MSP doesn't want the shopper's
> cover blown anymore than the shopper, and we share
> the desire to reach and shop the target. I have
> never dealt with an MSP who has unreasonable
> expectations of reaching the target. Asking for
> the target is usually the last resort, but it's a
> card that's played when no more than five or ten
> minutes of the shopper's time has been spent. If
> that's not the case, forget the MSP.

roxygirlie1021 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The MSC had me ask for the target agent 3 separate
> times! I kept trying to tell the scheduler that
> the employees I spoke with told me the target
> agent would not be back in for a while, and she
> kept saying that the client wanted me to keep
> trying. After the 3rd time asking for him by
> name, the employee on the phone got a bit hostile
> with me, wanting to know who I was and why I was
> calling and why I wanted to talk to him. I told
> the MSC that I couldn't ask for him by name again
> and still keep my identity secret (at that point,
> they HAD to know I'm a secret shopper.)
>
> And I heard back from the MSC. No pay So 14
> phone calls, and at least 30-45 minutes of my
> time, and I get nothing.
>
> I want to keep shopping for this particular
> company, because I have enjoyed working with them
> in the past, but I can't help feel a bit taken
> advantage of in this situation.
>
Geez. The opposite end of the spectrum of not being able to ask for the target!

Did the scheduler state that the MSP wanted the calls made closely together, not giving you the option of spacing them out in a reasonable manner? I'm assuming that you weren't paid because you weren't willing to continue as instructed, and therefore didn't complete the assignment. Of course it was a waste of your time, but was probably a blessing that you never shopped the target. As you said, they knew you were a shopper and had the target opted to 'out you', you wouldn't have gotten paid anyway, and you would have wasted more time.

Hindsight, when you knew things were going south, and the scheduler remained insistent, further discussion was needed, if not with her, then her supervisor. You didn't provide the MSPs name. Were your phone calls recorded? Just curious. I can understand you wanting to continue shopping with the MSP. Certainly though, the scheduler is another story. Unfortunately, we don't get to choose our schedulers.

roxygirlie1021 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The MSC had me ask for the target agent 3 separate
> times! I kept trying to tell the scheduler that
> the employees I spoke with told me the target
> agent would not be back in for a while, and she
> kept saying that the client wanted me to keep
> trying. After the 3rd time asking for him by
> name, the employee on the phone got a bit hostile
> with me, wanting to know who I was and why I was
> calling and why I wanted to talk to him. I told
> the MSC that I couldn't ask for him by name again
> and still keep my identity secret (at that point,
> they HAD to know I'm a secret shopper.)
>
> And I heard back from the MSC. No pay So 14
> phone calls, and at least 30-45 minutes of my
> time, and I get nothing.
>
> I want to keep shopping for this particular
> company, because I have enjoyed working with them
> in the past, but I can't help feel a bit taken
> advantage of in this situation.
>
>
> Mert Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Realistically ~ the MSP doesn't want the
> shopper's
> > cover blown anymore than the shopper, and we
> share
> > the desire to reach and shop the target. I
> have
> > never dealt with an MSP who has unreasonable
> > expectations of reaching the target. Asking
> for
> > the target is usually the last resort, but it's
> a
> > card that's played when no more than five or
> ten
> > minutes of the shopper's time has been spent.
> If
> > that's not the case, forget the MSP.

How could 14 calls result in 30-45 mins of wasted time? If you're making multiple calls, and don't reach the target, you're on the phone for less than a minute ea. time, surely!

You haven't mentioned the company, but it's pretty standard that accepting a target agent shop can result in somewhat of a crap shoot. I've done hundreds of EPMS apt. shops, and it does sometimes happen that you ultimately find the target doesn't even work there anymore; the msc gave you the wrong name; they're asking you to specifically call on the target's day off; the target's on vacation; or has been answering all along using a nickname, and probably a dozen other reasons why the assignment was ill fated to begin with. These situations have caused me to wonder how this can happen - how can the communication btw. the msc and their client be so poor that it takes call after call by a shopper to finally flush out the sad facts - that basically you've got a shop that was fated from the beginning to go nowhere.
If there is anyone out there who has a viable theory on how this happens, (you've been barking up the wrong tree all along b/c of what appears to be failed communication btw. the msc and their client), I'd like to know! I do know that there are "competition" apt. shops out there. I don't know how common they are - but basically one property mgt. company shops an apt. complex they DON'T manage, to get info about how that property mgt company operates, etc. In other words, not all apt. shops are contracted by the property mgt co. that manages that complex or the property owner. So, in that case, I can see where the msc w/b basically operating in the dark - but I wouldn't think that type of shop where one company is "spying" on another, would be a target-agent shop. Anyone out there know?

I've never expected to be compensated for repeated phone calls. My - I'd be rich if I were! EPMS always apologizes in those cases, but honestly, how would one expect to be paid for repeated phone calls? Further, with EPMS especially, you have to prove over and over again the integrity of your shop, and that you were actually there! Imagine how many cheaters would come flooding out of the woodwork if they thought they'd be compensated for repeated phone calls. "Yes - I've made hundreds of calls and spent hours of my time on this shop - now pay me, please!" (An obvious exaggeration there, in order to make a point.)
I've worked for other apartment msc's where this has happened, (failed, repeated calls/wasted time) and I'm those msc's don't pay for wasted phone calls either. It's the wasted trip that you would expect to be compensated for - and even that can be iffy. I have been compensated for a wasted trip, and not compensated for same - it just depends on the msc and the circumstances peculiar to that shop.

As far as the scheduler insisting on your continued efforts even tho you've found that the target is on vacation - I can't help but feel there's got to be some sort of miscommunication there? It's just crazy that a scheduler would expect a vacationing target-agent to magically materialize at the other end of the phone because they are being summoned by repeated phone calls! How can that be? How could anyone expect that? If you're being asked to do the impossible - time to switch MSC's.

If you really enjoy apt. shops (as I do), I would definitely shop for EPMS. I have found them to be fair, and to pay the highest in the industry (far as I know). Yes, their reports are unwieldy, lengthy, and redundant, and you may occasionally find that with a target shop you've been barking up the wrong tree all along, but they are always fair, they support their shoppers very well, they are always reachable by phone, and they never expect their shoppers to do the impossible. But, again, I think it unreasonable to expect to be compensated for phone calls and the resulting wasted time for such - it's all part of the game. If you pace yourself, call 3-4 times - spaced out during the day - for three days with no results, you can always contact them for permission to ask for the target by name. But sometimes, NOT! - sometimes it is completely verbotten to ask by name with that particular shop - and in that case they will put the shop on hold and investigate further w/the client to try to figure out what the problem might be. They would never insist on your continuing to ask by name for an agent on vacation. That just makes no sense. If your msc is asking the impossible - that's a big red flag they are not for you. You're wasting your time with THEM - never mind repeated phone calls!

Shophell -- I've just started doing the shops for EPMS. The non-contact calls last,at the most, 2 minutes because I ask questions that take a moment to answer or say I have another call coming in and will have to call back. I do wonder if they use the same form for all of their shops because they suggest apartment sizes that aren't available at some of the properties. Also, since one of the options is that the target no longer works at the property, I finally asked how we would find that out since we're not allowed to ask for the target, I was told that they will tell me to ask for the target but I hadn't gotten to that point yet. So, perhaps, after a certain number of unsuccessful phone calls, they give the o.k. to ask for the target.

I would imagine if it was a competitor shop, they wouldn't have an agent's name.

Not all EPMS surveys are the same, by along shot! I have done tons of their shops, video and audio and have encountered at least 8 different report forms.

However, they have 2-3 general forms from which a client might select (and then modify slightly), or the client may ask for a completely different, shorter or longer, form. Good news is that some video and audio clients are weaning themselves from the long forms!