Yes, I know I am always raggin on about the weather this year. But in No Ohio we have broken so many heat records this year and are set to do it again in the next 2 days. 98degrees. This is totally not statistically normal and I would like to ask who thinks this is just some cyclical thing or a major change.

Anyone who does not believe in climate change IMHO has their head buried in the sand. We got that freaky snowstorm for Halloween here (2 feet of snow) after Irene slammed Vermont harder than the coastal states.

And I know the norm was "there is no such thing as global warming because it SNOWED" in the 2011 Winter, what was the excuse this year?

Unfortunately my husband's car broke down today so he took mine so my schedule has been bumped back a day. I am dreading going to Stamford Town Center on Wednesday as their garage is disgustingly hot at Christmas time, I can't even imagine what it will be like Wednesday when it hits 95 here.

@suzie global warming is made up nonsense. The earth goes thru warming and cooling periods is part of cycles. So while the climate is changing relative to what it has been, it is just part of the cycle and not some man-made factors as some would lead you to believe.

You will note I did not use the term "global warming" in my personal belief of it. I refer to it in the proper scientific term of "climate change". And I also base my belief in it by scientists, not repeated media nonsense. We are the ones to blame for a lot of the change unfortunately.

I guess I put this on the wrong page, however, Tech are you saying that there is no relationship between what we have put in the air in the last 100 years, ie, more and more vehicles, the pollution from factories, (coal, etc)has no effect? Or maybe minimal effect? In am interested and willing to listen.

Actually everyone is right. The planet does go through normal cooling and heating. It's also accepted by many that man made pollutants make it worse. Regardless of what anyone chooses to believe or not to believe it is important that people realize this is our home that we share with many other living beings and we need to treat it as a home and not something to be used up and thrown away.

Just remember "the Earth is not a gift from our parents, it is a loan from our children." We are too educated and too aware of what harm we have done and continue to do on a daily basis to just ignore it like nothing is happening.

Yes, thank you Lisa. I agree completely. My concern is that this has become a political issue. It should not be, it is a scientific, human concern issue. Even if you acknowledge that there are natural cyclical climate changes, I do not understand how you cannot realize that all the crap we humans (and cows( have put into the atmoshphere is a bad deal.

cynb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, thank you Lisa. I agree completely. My
> concern is that this has become a political issue.
> It should not be, it is a scientific, human
> concern issue. Even if you acknowledge that there
> are natural cyclical climate changes, I do not
> understand how you cannot realize that all the
> crap we humans (and cows( have put into the
> atmoshphere is a bad deal.

Agreed. But it is a political issue because the huge companies that spew killing stuff into the air don't want to pay out the millions it will take to transform
their systems to keep the air and for that matter, water clean - thus the paid "scientists" who say there is no global warming and fracking with gas coming out your faucets is a good thing. As long as the CEO's care more about the billions they're making instead of their grandchildren and everyone else's grandchildren, it'll keep on this way.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 06:13AM by shoppinalong.

I wonder how seriously do you humans are evil believers lament the environment etc while driving hundreds of miles a year to mystery shop for some corporation?
Kool-Aid anyone?

107 here today!

Woot!! Weatherman said last night they'll probably bump it up to 110 by Wednesday! The lizards are running across the streets in tennis shoes! Ha ha! (Heard that on TV)

And here I was thinking 95 today was gonna be bad! So far, I have not turned on the AC in my house - I love hearing the birds outside, and hate the cold winters, so all summer I make everyone else just grin and bear it. I think I'm turning into my mother.

No AC yet Josey. Darn, there were days in March that I turned it on (somehow we had a week of 80+ in March when our norm would be around 50). I think I could give up heat in the winter before I could give up AC. You can always put a sweater and warmer clothes on, but you can only take off so much.

I know a lot of people that act like AC is a luxury and heat is a necessity, but seriously, every August in my area a few 100 people die (mostly around Chicago) due to the heat. In the winter, you don't hear of a few 100 people freezing to death.

I always like to ask (politely, of course) for whomever is telling me that there is no man-made component of climate change to describe the chemical mechanism of greenhouse gases. It's freshman chemistry, not very hard to describe.

Of course, they have no earthly idea1) what a chemical mechanism is, (2) what a greenhouse gas is, (3) how it all works when there is a man-made catalyst.

I think that if you are going to hold an opinion on climate change, you should hold an INFORMED opinion on it. Otherwise, you look a fool and a dupe of the right wing noise machine/Big Oil.

Just my 0.02.

And, now I'm off on a week long route that is going to take me through the heart of West Texas fracking country. I am certainly going to drink bottled water as I pass through all the frack sites - and drive carefully to avoid the Halliburton injection pump trucks out there.

(My DH has been in oil/gas/environmental remediation for 25 years now, so I have had an earful from his colleagues about how they're not hurting anything. But when they're on site, they are sure to drink bottled water, LOLOL)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 01:46PM by MissyH71.

C02 from humans is not causing or speeding up climate change.

There was plenty more co2 in the atmosphere many many years ago.

The greenhouse effect as the warming mongers like to call it is a fictional thing in relation to the earth as a whole. It's based on shoddy science at best.

Earth goes thru cycles that are well docmented of both cold and warm periods, and ill really throw you for a loop, if you follow weather we are entering a cold cycle now as the pdo, nao and other long term indicators are showing and if you look at actual climate data and the fact that ice has been growing in size(not shrinking as global warming alarmists claim) in recent years.

--
However, this doesn't mean we shouldn't conserve and develop new technologies as the earth's resources are not unlimited. This doesn't mean we should pollute the environment as it is still bad to breathe, drink etc.

and in regards to fracking, we all know how the oil industry operates, 20 years from now they will realize it was a bad idea, they cut corners, and will pay however many billions to settle claims...its a cycle that never ends.

Remember, the oil companies bought up many patents on electric vehicle tech and other non-oil tech, with the intention of never using it and shelfing the idea to keep everyone using oil. We should have a rule if you have a patent and dont use it within 5 years to make a product, then you must license it at a reasonable cost so others can develop it.

I have an open invitation to a friend's house. She has a pool, so I am headed over there today. I am not a fan of 90+ degree weather.

techman,

Just curious: what is your chemistry background?

i have an atmospheric science background. Which is what matters. I can't stand the people that blindly follow the global warming alarmists. The science they use has been refuted many times. Even the U.N. science people admitted their data may have been altered. The madness needs to stop.

Is the climate changing? yes, it goes through cycles. Is it because of humans? no.

techman,

So you have published peer-reviewed articles? Ones I could find in a scientific journal?

Since you're claiming to have an "Atmospheric Science Background" (*ahem*) I am quite startled that you are using non-scientific, emotional language to describe a natural phenomena.

In all the scientific conferences I've attended I've never seen an atmospheric scientist use language like yours. But perhaps you're a rara avis - an emotional and highly opinionated atmospheric scientist.

There's always a first for everything.

techman01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i have an atmospheric science background. Which is
> what matters. I can't stand the people that
> blindly follow the global warming alarmists. The
> science they use has been refuted many times. Even
> the U.N. science people admitted their data may
> have been altered. The madness needs to stop.
>
> Is the climate changing? yes, it goes through
> cycles. Is it because of humans? no.

Sounds like you blindly follow "science" experts like Sean Hannity.

To answer your question I lament it very seriously, although from your tone I don't think you really wanted an answer.

I make every effort to reduce my carbon footprint. Do I drive 100's of miles for jobs sometimes, yes. I also bought a new car which gets much better gas mileage before becoming a road warrior. My careful route planning extends way beyond jobs and every day I make every effort to combine trips and reduce the amount of fuel I use. I recycle to the point that the bin for that has over three times as much as the trash can. I reuse and repurpose whenever possible. I garden organically. I use all natural cleaning products.

I certainly did not say humans were evil. However, humans, particularly in the U.S., are wasteful.

marijaldm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder how seriously do you humans are evil
> believers lament the environment etc while driving
> hundreds of miles a year to mystery shop for some
> corporation?
> Kool-Aid anyone?

Lisa, I'm the same way; we bought a pellet stove to use for our main heat source, thus getting rid of our oil burner. We are conscious about our driving and purchases.

Of note, this entire "global warming" which is CLIMATE CHANGE really took hold in the past 60 years. The planet is how old and look what we did in 60 years. We hold no one truly accountable - look at BP and Halliburton for their little "oopsie" in the gulf. I think its insane to purchase a vehicle that gets 8 miles per gallon and then complain about the cost of gas, personally I have never understood the point of having a Hummer anywhere outside of Baghdad for military reasons. I keep driving my little Sentra that when I fill it gets 350 miles to the tank. Its called being cautious in a way and every little bit helps.

I did a solar leasing MS a couple of months ago - learned a ton about home installation of solar systems.

Would love to get a solar system on my roof (it faces due south) and an electric car for in-town driving. The solar leasing mystery shop was great; I only wish I were a "real" customer for the saleswoman - she was wonderful.

Running an electric car on my roof's solar system would make me very very happy.

And - I generally do 8-10 shops a day when on a route. I think that's more energy-efficient than 4 or 5 people doing 2 shops each, especially in the hinterlands where I drive.

OK, off to start my day.

And, if techman returns, there's a funny little saying scientists have:

"Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence."

See if he can live up to those claims he made... color me skeptical.

suzie you cannot take a small sample of 60 years, and say look it's climate change. That is too small a sample for an earth that has been around millions of years. The globe as a whole has actually been cooling as a whole over the last decade.


Missy, I wasn't aware this was a forum to go into in-depth detail about science. When you look at natural science, including the conference held recently in Chicago, they talk about how things are cooling. Not the political science that is agenda driven by govt's.


Forbes article on recent conference: [www.forbes.com]

Like i said before, that doesn't mean we shouldn't develop new technologies or recycle.

Was that really necessary?


This is not directed at you specifically Suzie, but anyone (and there have been several) people who have to make political statements or comments about certain TV personalities -

I've bitten my tongue many, many times when I've read some smart @$$ comments about particular personalities on the Right who are on TV, when I've wanted to come back with my own smart @$$ comments about those on the Left - but refrained for the courtesy of everyone and our host. THIS forum is not a political forum. There's plenty of those out there for either the "Left" or the "Right".

Can we all play "nice" here and keep things on topic?


suzieboz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> techman01 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> Sounds like you blindly follow "science" experts
> like Sean Hannity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 03:33PM by r@inyDayZ3.

@Rainy - yes it was. When someone consistently expouses their view point and is proud of it and is absolutely incorrect in my opinion I will point them out on it. And it doesn't matter if they are "right" or "left", I think that Olbermann is off his rocker half the time as well. Hannity is about 98% of the time.

And to put my money where my mouth is: [www.politicususa.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 03:40PM by suzieboz.

OK - I'm going to jump in REAL quick here, because - well, it's irresistable.

Idiots on the Right AND on the Left frequently spin science (REAL science, replicaable and peer-reviewed) for their own ends.

Right: Denies evolution. Denies climate change.

Left: Misrepresents GMO (genetically modified organism) data. Denies efficacy of vaccines.

I get equally annoyed, as someone who holds bona fide science degrees(biochemistry and chemistry) at both Sarah Palin and Jenny McCarthy when they start blathering on topics they never bothered to study in-depth.

I wouldn't presume to comment on my friends' chemotherapy regime, even though I have 36 graduate-level hours of biochemistry coursework. Ditto for the hormone treatments my niece is currently undergoing. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - and I consider my knowledge in those areas as "little."


If you don't put in the hours in the classroom and the lab, you don't get to spout pseudo-science babble. Period. Goes for BOTH sides.

My husband was trying over and over to get those shops. Out here in AZ it's the PERFECT place to have Solar power.

Unfortunately, it is so darn expensive just to get set up and having the kind of money to budget every month. It's a shame it doesn't come down in price. Makes you wonder who's pocket some of the electric companies have their hands in!

Arizona State University, West Campus, which is just a few miles from our house up in Phoenix has turned the campus to almost 100% Solar Power! They started the project in 2008 or 2009. Here's a Wiki Link: [en.wikipedia.org]

It was fascinating to watch the construction of the array and driving by now seeing the entire field made up of the panels.

On another issue - that of Recycling - Do y'all know how many places do NOT recycle?

When we lived in PA, DH and I were just flubbergusted at what was NOT permitted to be in the recycle bin. Cardboard, milk jugs, soda cans - that was all! It was ridiculous what we had to throw away. Out here in AZ where we live, about the only thing I cannot throw in the recycle bin are tissues, paper towels, styrofoam, and glass! (and food stuffs too, but those go over the fence).


**Edited to Add: For those who have "large items" that don't really fit in a trash can - look into the website called "Freecycle". (I think it's still freecycle.org) It's a great way to keep things that others may find as a "treasure" from going into landfills and dumps (or tossed into the desert or hills).


MissyH71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did a solar leasing MS a couple of months ago -
> learned a ton about home installation of solar
> systems.
>
> Would love to get a solar system on my roof (it
> faces due south) and an electric car for in-town
> driving. The solar leasing mystery shop was great;
> I only wish I were a "real" customer for the
> saleswoman - she was wonderful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 03:55PM by r@inyDayZ3.

you should sign up with recyclebank if you haven't already online. You earn points for recycling that can be redeemed for discounts, gift cards etc. Some communites participate directly, so you earn points everytime you recycle at your house.

Around here we have been able to recycle many of the items you mentioned for as long as I can remember. It is all part of our trash pickup service. I found it frustrating that the recycle bin was about 75% smaller than the trash can and while the trash can is wheeled and easy to take to the curb I had to carry an often heavy and overflowing recycle bin. Finally they made a change and now the recycling can is the same size and on wheels, yippee! When they came out with those they also increased the types of items we could recycle. I have been quite the happy camper Another thing they have in my community is a separate pickup to recycle lawn waste. It is not possible to compost in this neighborhood or to "throw things over the back fence" Since we cannot it is nice to know the prunings, etc. are being recycled as well.

@ Lisa - they do that too up in Phx with the larger items. It's called "Loose Trash Pickup". People put out stoves, carpeting, refrigerators, mattresses, etc (including lawn trimmings). It's once a month based on streets and a lot of people go around driving and picking up their "treasures" from some of the more ritzy neighborhoods.

The ground squirrels love the veggie & fruit peels, old bread, etc! DH took a picture of one of them rolling a tomato toward it's den. It was too funny - we sat here laughing at this little chipmunk sized creature pushing this tomato around.