I am not sure which section this fits in, so move it if you need too.

I am sure most of you have probably seen the riots and demonstrations that are being held in Florissant/Fergunson, Mo area. This has affected my shopping as I had two scheduled for that area and usually do quite a few in the area. that is not why I am writing this.

An 18 year old was killed by a police officer. there are conflicting stories as to what happened an most people believe that he was unarmed and had his hands up in the air when he was shot. Others state that he got in the police car and tried to take the gun from the police officer.

So where am I going with this thread. I am asking everyone to withhold judgement until the investigation is completed. I am also asking everyone to keep not only the family, the teenager, but also the police officer in their thoughts and/or prayers. The community needs thoughts and/or prayers too especially since there have been riots, looting, shootings and setting a business on fire after looting it. Please also keep the officers who are on duty in mind too.

Let's hope that the healing begins soon, if not sooner for everyone.

I've been reading about this, and am so confused to the point where I'm just going to reserve judgment altogether, official investigation or not.

The entire situation is very sad and a bit bizarre.

Without judging. The child was shot in the back. The child was shot 8 times.

There is a post titled St. Louis......

Could you provide the link to the news article saying he was shot in the back? I have not heard that on either the local news or any articles.

Whether or not he was a child may be your perspective. I consider an 18 year old to be young man, not a child.

@Swilli-I don't know whether your statement is true but I do know that a person can do something wrong and quickly turn around. Not passing judgement of course...

BTW an 18 year old is legally an adult.

18 or not, he was still someone's child...

The part I find bizarre is that the stepfather was out protesting and participating in the riots only a few hours after it happened. If my child was killed or murdered a few hours ago, the last place I'd be would be out in the streets carrying a sign on a ripped cardboard box.

Different people or groups of persons react differently to different situations. What he did was different than how you would react.

Remember, a few weeks ago, the paramedics did everything BUT administer CPR to a person who could not breathe, and was unconscious, which would have been the right thing to do, well..............

All news reports indicate the family was not involved in any of the rioting and certainly not the looting. They were condemning it while it was happening as being disrespectful to the memory of their son.

Regardless of the age of the shooting victim or the circumstances, that does not give complete strangers the right to burn down businesses who had absolutely nothing to do with the original crime.

My prayers are with everyone (innocently) involved. You want to loot and burn and blame it on something that happened to someone else, you are a petty criminal that should be locked up. They really "showed the police who was boss" by burning down the QT. Excellent way to show your children how to behave. And the circle continues..................

If someone is going to pray for something, then ONE should pray for the innocent as well as the guilty.

It would appear you are a better Christian than I. I will face my judgement day like everybody else. If I am judged for not forgiving the guilty, I will have to face that. Glad to see you will end up in Heaven for being perfect


sojo917 Wrote:
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> If someone is going to pray for something, then
> ONE should pray for the innocent as well as the
> guilty.

If I end up in Heaven it will not be because I carry a glock in my purse. Whether I end up in heaven or hell, I surely will be in paradise, which is a beautiful place to be. If someone wants to pray, while others want to cry. I cry for the guilty as well as the innocent because a better outcome warranted a better solution. Rioting and looting is a way of crying out for help and assistance not to say, "who's the boss".

The shooter and the shootee were both in the wrong. There is no innocence when a life has been taken. And the guilt should be on the minds of all.

Looting is not a cry for help. The looters were criminals and nothing more. They don't even have any relationship to the victim, his family or anyone else in the neighborhood. So don't kid yourself that they were misguided and upset. They saw an opportunity and used a tragedy for their own gain. Did you not read my earlier posts on the subject?

sojo917 Wrote:
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> If I end up in Heaven it will not be because I
> carry a glock in my purse. >

Ummmm............................what????????????


And I couldn't possibly agree more with Lisa's last post. QT and other affected businesses had absolutely no affiliation or association with the crime people were rioting about. They are truly the innocents in this scenario.

Bearclaw14 Wrote:
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> sojo917 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I end up in Heaven it will not be because I
> > carry a glock in my purse. >
>
> Ummmm............................what????????????


I didn't get that either, but I really didn't get: "Whether I end up in heaven or hell, I surely will be in paradise, which is a beautiful place to be."
I've heard hell described in many different ways, but never as "paradise" or "beautiful".

One does not have to agree with or like my words. Have you been in MY situation, where one have been gunned down in cold blood? Nobody said it was the family looting and rioting, and it never is. The looters and rioters are not doing it "To show someone who is the boss'. Looting and riots take place because it is geographically known that justice will never prevail. Those businesses, after the fact, just happened to be in the wrong area at the right time. There are no innocence in this scenario.

The shooter (in this case) may be found not guilty of a shooting but not by the people whom it affected the most. This is a city where the percentage of people are ruled or governed by 30% of a group of person who would rather shoot you eight times than not. Justice in this town for this young man will not be achieved. Other similar incidences have shown that.

There are just as many devils walking the face of the earth as there are angels, and some carry glocks. For others, paradise exist because the same beings are there.

sojo917 Wrote:
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> One does not have to agree with or like my words.
>
I'm not agreeing/disagreeing liking/disliking your words. I just don't understand them. Maybe it's me. I never understand Shakespeare either.

sojo917 Wrote:
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>
> There are just as many devils walking the face of
> the earth as there are angels, and some carry
> glocks. For others, paradise exist because the
> same beings are there.


You have made several comments regarding my Glock. What pray tell, is your strong aversion to me having a gun to protect my family? And for your nosy business, I do not carry it in my purse. It is in a hand safe next to my bed where I will have it pointed at an intruder in 3.7 seconds. I don't go out looking for trouble, but if you come in my sanctuary looking for it, you will surely find it. And trust me, I wouldn't hesitate for 2 seconds to shoot someone in my house going after me or my kids. I pray it will never come to that, but I assure you, I won't miss if it does. Does that make me fall into the "devil" category? I tend to think not, but I would venture a guess you would think otherwise.

What have I done to make you so obviously offended?

And furthermore, if you were driving down the street minding your own business and you got hit with a stray bullet meant for somebody else, would you not consider yourself innocent? Wrong place at the wrong time? Absolutely. Innocent? Absolutely.

I would like to add you know absolutely nothing about the community you and virtually everything you said could not be more wrong. It is sad that national and social media are spreading more lies and rumors than fact. It is sad to have an outsider implying businesses in that community were not innocent and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hoodlums, thugs and criminals came not only from other cities, but even from another state just to wreak havoc, not to even suggest what they were doing was in the name of justice or any other cockamamie excuse the media wants to throw out there. Unlike you, I live close to the neighborhood and have visited it often. What happened this weekend will be sorted out and I am confident the end result will be justice. But don't imply this is the norm in my city.

Bearclaw14 Wrote:
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> sojo917 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> You have made several comments regarding my Glock.
>

Your Glock? I thought perhaps the reference was to one of my Glocks.

I guess you're going to Hell with me. And in all reality, it is my Walther I keep next to me. My Glock is in the big gun safe in the garage.


LJ Wrote:
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> Bearclaw14 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > sojo917 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > You have made several comments regarding my
> Glock.
> >
>
> Your Glock? I thought perhaps the reference
> was to one of my Glocks.

LJ and Bearclaw to you both- I have to say over the years Lisa and I have agreeded to disagree about many a shop but I an all on her side that the community needs support right now and not more violence or bragging of who has a glock or who does not. What will that solve to encourage more violence?

Do either of you go to work in the morning on a shop and have to worry about the current situation like Lisa does? No I suspect not.
Violence needs to end and not with the threat of who has a bigger glock.

I was doing a demo once when I saw a man come in to rob the store waving a gun. I quickly left the demo table
and never forgot. I cannot even imagine St L right now.

To ALL of those shopping St L stay safe.

I'm glad it seems as if we are getting back on track to what this chat was about. Again, the whole community needs support even if we can not understand all of things that have occurred in relation to this incident. I do many jobs in that area, but do not feel safe enough at this time to do the jobs. I would not have said this in the past and will not say it in the future. It is sad that people from outside of the community are the ones causing me to feel unsafe.

Again, please keep everyone in your thoughts and/or prayers.

CANADAMOMMY Wrote:
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> LJ and Bearclaw to you both-
> Do either of you go to work in the morning on a
> shop and have to worry about the current situation
> like Lisa does? No I suspect not.
>

How about going to work for almost two decades strapping a Kevlar vest on every day not knowing whether or not you'll ever see your family again? I suspect you didn't suspect that.

Kindly refer to my signature line.

Actually LJ it does not surprise me in the least.
It saddens me that in your position violence should not be the norm.
Bragging about weapons should not be the norm.



LJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CANADAMOMMY Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LJ and Bearclaw to you both-
> > Do either of you go to work in the morning on a
> > shop and have to worry about the current
> situation
> > like Lisa does? No I suspect not.
> >
>
> How about going to work for almost two decades
> strapping a Kevlar vest on every day not knowing
> whether or not you'll ever see your family again?
> I suspect you didn't suspect that.
>
> Kindly refer to my signature line.

So, somebody mentions a firearm, and it's bragging? It's promoting violence? WTF? If someone mentions their poodle, and another person says, "oh, you could be describing my poodle", suddenly they are bragging and comparing who has the better poodle? If you have a thing about firearms and go off the deep end every time someone mentions one, that's you're own personal problem. But kindly don't piss on my poodle, m-kay?

So you want to play the game who has a bigger doggie now?
Most anything calls trump over a poodle. Thanks but I will skip that game.


LJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, somebody mentions a firearm, and it's
> bragging? It's promoting violence? WTF? If someone
> mentions their poodle, and another person says,
> "oh, you could be describing my poodle", suddenly
> they are bragging and comparing who has the better
> poodle? If you have a thing about firearms and go
> off the deep end every time someone mentions one,
> that's you're own personal problem. But kindly
> don't piss on my poodle, m-kay?

It is a matter of opinion. I'm a knife and firearm junkie, and carry a nice Spyderco folding knife everywhere I go, short of a courthouse or airport. Most people would look at it and think that it's a weapon. I have never viewed my knives as a weapon primarily. They are, first and foremost, a tool, to me.

This is rather a personal story for me, but I will share it here, to give the opinion of someone who has many firearms, but does not "promote violence." I have numerous firearms, mostly rifles, but a good number of handguns. And I abhor violence. I do not advocate it or promote it in any way, and to own a firearm does not mean that I am promoting it.

I used to think that firearms promoted violence. I used to think "That'll never be me. I'll never get one. People that do are just asking for trouble, they want to use them, they're violent by nature. I live in a safe area. Nothing bad will happen to me." How f*cking wrong I was.

When I was seventeen years old, I was carjacked. I was shot twice and shoved out of the passenger side of the car. They joyrode the car for six hours and left it in a church parking lot, as evidenced by security footage from a convenience shop across the street. It was found two days later. I was shot in the back and thigh so that they could ride around in my stepmother's car for six hours. Yep. Senseless. I can honestly say that violence can happen when you least expect it, and especially when you are wholly unprepared for it.

I lived in fear for four and a half years, until I finally looked at the life that I was living, and decided that I actually wanted to live life. I decided that my life, the one I wanted to live, it was worth protecting. It was worth holding on to, and not letting some try to take it away. Getting my first firearm and concealed carry permit was the best step I have ever taken in life, short of having my children. I trained with it extensively and got to know it inside and out. I felt prepared. I knew that, at the very least, if senseless violence reared its' ugly head again, at least I'd have something. I started going out after dark again. My panic attacks while driving, they lessened. Before that, they were absolutely awful, and happened because of something as simple as a street fruit vendor coming up to my car selling oranges, or if I made a wrong turn into an unfamiliar neighborhood. I'd drive to a well-lit parking lot and pull over and sit sobbing in my car for 10-20 minutes, struggling to breathe and just hating myself for how afraid I was.

I was afraid of everyone I encountered. I didn't date, didn't make new friends, didn't stay out after dark. It wasn't the life I wanted. Now, I at least have some small comfort knowing that I can at least have a chance to protect myself. I have the means and the training, and...this life that I have built, that I love, and these people in it, they are worth protecting. If I am ever in the wrong place at the wrong time, at least I'll have the right means to defend myself if necessary.

Evil doesn't always wear an ugly face. It's not like you can always see it coming and avoid it. My view on firearms,... better to have and not need, than need and not have. I didn't have one when I needed it. I won't make that mistake again.

Wow, I just realized how long that was. So sorry. I just wanted to give the firearms as protection viewpoint from a former victim. Emphasis on former.

I was first a victim of violence, and then a victim of fear. No more.