@LIJake
I would suggest that there are many conservative and liberals who suffer the inability to "think outside the box." Creative thought is not a political trait. There are brilliant folks on both sides of the aisle.

Jeff Bezos, Amazon: Liberal
Bill Gates, Microsoft: Liberal
Mark Cuban, Entrepreneur, Liberal
Mitt Romney, Bain, Conservative
Steve Forbes, Conservative
William Rehnquist, SCOTUS, Conservative
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, SCOTUS, Liberal



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2018 03:17AM by MFJohnston.

I probably should have been a Democrat. I was born in NYC, my father was a mechanic and my mother a maid until she became a mother, then became a stay at home mom. We moved to the suburbs where I walked to and from school, had my first job at 13 as my parents could not afford an allowance. I couldn't afford a car through high school and college and finally bought a used one after college, and had a job. Maybe that was why I became a Republican and a conservative. What I had, I earned. How does this relate to mystery shopping? The commissions I get, I earn and if I want to earn more all I have to do is work more. And I look at that as conservative values. So I ask again, where has my thinking gone wrong?

@MFJohnston wrote:

@LIJake
I would suggest that there are many conservative and liberals who suffer the inability to "think outside the box." Creative thought is not a political trait. There are brilliant folks on both sides of the aisle.

I can agree with that. However I consider Mitt Romney a Republican but not a conservative. But then President Trump is not a conservative either.

@LIJake
There is nothing about what you said that is specific to conservatives. Liberals believe in hard work as well.
The difference in ideology is more about to what degree we believe society is responsible for the care of those who are unable to make their fortunes. In a capitalist society, there will always be those who do well and those who struggle.

While capitalism is great at producing large amounts of wealth, it does not have an answer (or care) for those who are impoverished when they come out on the losing end of competition. Society cannot function without folks do do many lower-paying jobs (retail, cleaning, etc.). To what degree do we simply expect them to have a lower standard of living (and thus encourage others to strive for better) and, to what extend do we allow them to suffer without such entitlements as health care? To what extent is care for those elderly who have not the means to live comfortably without support the responsibility of our government and to what is it the responsibility of charity? 99% of conservatives believe that the government has a role here.

Liberalism v. Conservatism is not about the drive of the individual to excel financially. Rather it is about the role of the government to support those who struggle to do so. Unfortunately, this is lost on many folks as it is easy to get caught up in more emotional social arguments such as those regarding immigration, gay marriage, abortion and so on. Consider: There is nothing about the legality of gay marriage (or lack thereof) that suggests a more liberal or conservative economic view. Yet, overwhelmingly gay marriage advocates are liberal and those opposed are conservative.

@LIJake wrote:

@MFJohnston wrote:

@LIJake
But then President Trump is not a conservative either.

Don't get me started.

Hard work builds character and homework is good for your soul.

This is again getting too political, a losing situation. So as I said earlier, fun's over. Good Night.

Understood. G'night.

@HonnyBrown wrote:

True, but how does that affect clean water and air which are enforced by the states?

While states are the primary enforcers, EPA has concurrent enforcement authority and take enforcement action unilaterally (See [19january2017snapshot.epa.gov], page 24). Not that the current administration ever would.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2018 04:52AM by Rousseau.

Yes, the EPA has enforcement authority, but not suing states for an infringement for a few days will not have an impact on the air we breathe.

I am not minimizing the important work done by the EPA, by no means. In my 49 years, I have seen cleaner skies and water, and I have seen manufacturing companies act more responsibly.

I am saying that for a week or two (or in this case, a day), the cog won't destroy the machine.

This has been the most diverse thread I have read on this forum! Is there any topic that has not been covered?

With a vacation, you know when you are leaving and when you come back. This isn't the case with a shutdown.

Government workers were not paid until after the shutdown was over, and they were not allowed to use their PTO. They were without an income during that time.

It is not a vacation.

@KathyG wrote:

He joked about how annoyed he was that some of his co-workers that didn't have to come into work had a nice paid vacation, while he still had to get up and go in every day.

@MFJohnston wrote:

I disagree that this business should necessarily appeal to those on the right as opposed to the left.

I never said I thought it appealed more to those on the right. I tend to lean to the left, myself and I still think most other forum members do as well.

Whichever side of the aisle a person tends to lean, I find it very helpful to read political commentary from intelligent pundits from the opposing side. I often still disagree but it helps me to not classify people according to the stereotypes common to politics. The politicians are only too happy to let us believe that liberals are lazy jand want a government handout, or conservatives only care about rich people, to give two examples that both sides try to make us believe. We will never understand each other if we don't at least try. There are lots of things I still don't understand but it's not because I"m not trying. If we just listened to each other the world would change in significant ways.

Some government workers still have not been paid for the LAST shutdown, even though payment was authorized.

wales, exactly! I was a contractor with NASA Goddard. Our company used our PTO to pay us, without our permission. Our union fought to get our PTO back. The civil servants got paid when OMB felt like it, and, as you stated, some haven't been paid yet from 2013.

Did you shop in the city yesterday?

Somebody else had made that statement.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

@MFJohnston wrote:

I disagree that this business should necessarily appeal to those on the right as opposed to the left.

I never said I thought it appealed more to those on the right. I tend to lean to the left, myself and I still think most other forum members do as well.

Here is a TED Talk about talking politics. I always think it's a mistake to avoid discussing politics and teaching our children that it is impolite conversation. We need to teach our children HOW to engage in discussion even when it might be difficult topics.

[www.ted.com]

Honny,
Yes, I shopped in the city on Monday. Traffic was light, but I did not head in until about 10 AM. Lots of Federal workers did have to go in to their job sites to actually do "shutdown chores," like posting "away" email messages, cleaning out refrigerators, resetting the thermostat, taking home the potted plants (or the goldfish bowl?). So, traffic was lighter than usual, but not dead.

This is where you went wrong. Painting a large group of people with one big ole brush rather than consider they have many priorities. Like the old myth perpetrated by the 40th President of the welfare queen. The biggest welfare queens currently are the large corporations.

I am not as old as LIJake, but old enough to remember when Lake Erie was basically dead and smog surrounded many of our cities. It makes me old enough to appreciate the good done by all the environmental regulations because the vast majority of corporation will not police themselves. I remember when healthcare was affordable which was before insurance companies and frivolous lawsuits turned it into a luxury. I remember when it was okay to discriminate against minorities in housing and jobs and there was no punishment for a boss who grabbed a female employee by the p ............., oh wait.

If I can ever find it, I will post a link to a great series of articles about why we have so many regulations. It is an interesting collection of stories spanning decades. Each one is about the disaster, small or large, that resulted in state or federal government enacting legislation to prevent a future occurrence.

"depending on the government or a corporation for your financial security, medical needs and general guidance."

No one has mentioned predatory females. Some females prey upon, beat on, p-whip, and/or otherwise terrorize other females, males, and children. Some women take the concept of nurture to a rarefied degree: this subgroup nurtures baseness and grooms their minor children for pornographic careers and/or personal pleasuring. Some females just teach by example how to manipulate and maneuver. Should some attention be given to these female types, in the interest of fairness? I do not suggest that they are responsible for a temporary governmental stoppage. I merely mention them so that we will not fixate on any one group or over-generalize about persons.

It is mentioned. Usually by men who aren't too hip on being told they can't harass and assault to their heart's content anymore. It is their favorite tactic to ignore the decades of gender inequality and to divert attention from the very real problem which is them.

I heard Ann Curry speak on the Matt Lauer case. She said she was not surprised. She is incredibly eloquent, usually. I always thought that having been subjected to all of that crap was because I was vulnerable in ways. She seemed pretty pissed when she was talking about it. When those things happened to me, I quit. I got a lot of flack from the ex, my family and society in general for quitting, even when I explained. But she just put up with it, she didn't quit. She didn't mention it on a live broadcast, tape him and share it on social media, bring a lawsuit. She's as culpable as Matt.

@Shop-et-al

You're talking about outlyers, wayyyyy out there with and not anywhere close to any discussion on the glass ceiling. That your paragraph was so filled with such disgusting detail may mean that you have studied that subject. I wish I hadn't read such detail about depravity here.

I saw that as well, I(Ann Curry) I think she has a lot of class, and his being in charge ,she probably needed her job, he was the culpert, and she wasn't alone. I'm glad she finally got to speak the truth and move on. Woman were afraid, no more baby....unless one walks in her shoes, not fair to judge.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2018 03:15AM by Irene_L.A..

Predatory females are not a systemic problem so there is no need to worry about being fair. Of course there is the occasional outlier, but a system built by men, for men, is what we have been living in for at least a hundred years. I don't think that the patriarchy is evil, I think it has been used for evil. Men and women created it together so that we could survive and evolve. Men and women together will create the next paradigm and that may be what is actually happening here. It is a function of evolution.

@CoffeeQueen wrote:

Predatory females are not a systemic problem so there is no need to worry about being fair. Of course there is the occasional outlier, but a system built by men, for men, is what we have been living in for at least a hundred years. I don't think that the patriarchy is evil, I think it has been used for evil. Men and women created it together so that we could survive and evolve. Men and women together will create the next paradigm and that may be what is actually happening here. It is a function of evolution.

Whence the predation?

Whence the hatred for women that shows up in ways that are now being addressed by the me too movement the additional or add-on actions?

Men could do this alone.

Interesting to see how fake news has distorted many of the views here.

Don't perpetuate the stupidity.

@DavePi wrote:

Interesting to see how fake news has distorted many of the views here.

You would think that these news outlets would focus on substance instead of style but it's kind of like using rainbow font when you really don't have anything to say.

exactly right.