@Flash: I hated the gatherings. I always needed rest and to think, not to do and do and do for the hoopla surrounding the big production numbers. There was never time or space to contemplate the histories and to experience any personal relevance for each holiday. There were only other people's must-do traditions and socially enforced ideas. Many years later, I learned that it was unwholesome. Now, I do what I do and other people do what they do. This is better.

Sorry they are/were not a pleasant time for you. I have never objected to other people's 'must-do' traditions because it is the gathering that is the fun and meaningful experience. We always dealt with 'many hands make the work light', so the host/hostess primarily needed to have space for folks to work and serve as organizer so that not everyone brought the same thing. (Yes, one Thanksgiving I attended was amusing because the hostess did not organize the pot luck and there was the turkey she baked and almost everyone brought homemade cranberry sauce.) And it is the host's obligation to let folks help out because half the fun is working together with others. A gathering where the host insists on doing everything is awkward and, frankly, unpleasant because it means the host is at least somewhat limited in being able to interact with folks.

The question of interest has changed to tradition,, so for my family tradition was most important, without a turkey, it wouldn't be Thanksgiving, my made up recipe of stuffing is (short version), brown rice, raisins, celery and fresh cranberries in a bowl near turkey and adding the gravy to produce a grand tasting item, along with veggies. We are not pumpkin eaters, but cheesecake makes everyone happy...for my small family, this is a part of Thanksgiving. I am still a traditional woman as far as holidays go. This year my daughter leaves for Greece with
her work place, they take one amazing trip together every Nov., so I will be alone, preferring to not fly to San Francisco to be with family. I am fine with it, will take myself to a movie and make a 9 pound, turkey to enjoy during the week...is anything better than turkey sandwich's. I will then be awaiting eye surgery in a few days. Alone time to reflect is a good thing, I will also be reading and writing, so for those with families, without families, have a good one and most of all, be good to yourself, doing it your way works......

Here is a YouTube Channel of Warren Buffet's Secret Millionaire's Club:

[www.youtube.com]

The cartoon is voiced by Warren Buffett himself. Great for kids (and even adults)!

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Answering Niner's interesting question on how much does one need to live like a millionaire...I like nice hotels, give me Four seasons, upscale restaurants, travel 1st class, I'm made for it and handle it well. I also do well at BJ's Brewery, Red Robin and the more casual chains we all work for. My confidence comes from within, but I know I'm not living like a millionaire, so, how do I change it......sell my investment, house, I don't care to invest my money in an upscale hotel working anymore...what makes me happy nowadays is freedom to come and go, good health, and a Cosmo and good meal...as you age you do need less...whatever we have in savings doesn't count, we're not spending it. How does one save after retirement, I'm listening.

I have been looking at Motel Six and the like to stay at during our next trip. I won't spend more than a hundred a night, for a few nights. Hopefully mystery shopping will cover meals. And this is why we can save and have enough for emergencies. If we stayed at the $500/night option, that would equal our electric and heating bill for a few months. We could stay at the Ritz Carltons and fly instead of drive, and heck, throw in a Mercedes or two. We would then possibly be paycheck to paycheck like much of the country. Hitting a million net worth is different than keeping a million net worth.

@Flash wrote:

There have been many books, newsletters and magazines written about investing. These are out of date before the printer's ink is dry. This becomes more and more true as the technology for trading gets faster and faster.

I think there are a lot of good basic principles of investing that are timeless or still relevant from decades ago.

Reading Peter Lynch, for example, still proves valuable in stock picking today, as his insights are still used and revered by so many. This YouTube video - about one hour in length - is of him teaching how to pick stocks:

[www.youtube.com]

"You shouldn't be intimidated. Everyone can do well in the stock market." - first two sentences from Peter Lynch

@ wrote:

Few people find it fascinating to study market movement, company governance and performance, sector performance, the economy and what the analysts are projecting.

Most finance/accounting/business majors in college take a course (or, at least, have a section of a course devoted to it) on investing. There are often stock market competitions in these classes. Outside of that, i think you're probably right, Flash, that most people don't care to learn about investing that much. Peter Lynch famously says that people will hear a stock tip on a subway ride to work and by the end of the afternoon put half their kid's college fund savings into a stock they've never heard of on a random "hot tip." Hyperbole, for sure, but it captures the spirit of so many reckless investors!

I've probably always been interested in stocks from a very early age. It runs in the family practically.

@ wrote:

Even with that study, the decision to invest or divest takes a human longer than it takes a computer. Much of market movement is due to computerized trading algorithms that can instantly account for the latest information. As a result it is not at all an inappropriate suggestion that folks buy market diversification by purchasing index funds rather than attempting to 'pick winner' stocks. And for a couple hundred dollars an individual can begin buying index funds while buying investment real estate normally requires at least a 20% downpayment plus a likelihood that the monthly rent will at least cover the monthly mortgage, taxes and insurance payment.

I agree that most people should stay away from individual stock picking. But, I also don't think it's scary at all.

If you realize that what you're doing is simply buying a share of a business and that you should stay away from things you don't understand (e.g., Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch both stayed away from technology companies), then there shouldn't be anything that scares you from owning a share of a company like Apple, Google, Coca-Cola, Disney, Starbucks, and the like. These would be the types of businesses that EVERYONE is familiar with on an every day basis. One investment writer at Seeking Alpha (popular site) talked about how his 10-year old daughter chose Coca-Cola as her first stock to purchase recently:

[seekingalpha.com]

I agree with Lauren Templeton, who thinks that people interested in learning about investing should just buy ~$500 worth of stock in ANY company of their choosing, regardless of valuation (i.e., no matter if it's currently overvalued or not). From there, she says to just watch it for a while. Read up on news of the company. Learn what drives the stock price up or down (aside from things like randomness and momentum). Learn what the business is doing that may lead to higher revenue and earnings down the line, etc. She gives a great example of her 5-year old daughter buying Disney stock (well, in trust/guardianship). It's a company she is familiar with and whose product she loves. Every time a new Disney movie comes out, they watch it together and discuss whether she thinks that movie will be popular and drive the stock price higher. It's an educational opportunity she thinks can pay off (well worth the $500) much more than lots of initial studying.

Just getting used to the idea that there is a real company behind a stock and its price and being familiar with its products/services goes a long way in taking any fear out of the equation. It's fun to own a share of your favorite company! From there (after that first ~$500 investment), you can then start to learn more about the technical valuation side of things (assuming you're still interested).

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2019 05:33AM by shoptastic.

As for computer algorithms doing the bulk of today's trading, that shouldn't affect a value investor's approach. You would still be buying a stock that you believe to be undervalued or fair price.

The big fluctuations in the stock market (driven by computer trading) have no bearing on the process. Equally unimportant are what "code words" are programmed into these computers to trade on. Often trades are done on macro-economic news.

A value investor like Warren Buffett or Peter Lynch ignores these things. They don't care if we're in recession or expansion. The only thing that matters is whether a stock is currently a bargain or not relative to its fundamentals.

"Fundamental analysis" focuses on the long-term prospects for a company and its value.

"Technical analysis" focuses on the short-term trading direction of stocks (which value investors don't care about).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2019 05:45AM by shoptastic.

@Flash wrote:

Especially during the recession those $10 shops kept me from needing to go into my savings or investments to pay the bills.

Speaking of $10 shops, I picked up some $10 phone shops from Person to Person.

More $ to put into my millionaire jar. $20 here....$8....$7 there....it adds up months end.

@Jill_L wrote:

I would love to get into stocks. I feel like I'm behind the 8 ball with no experience. Is there anything you would suggest in order to "break in?"

You can sign up with an online brokerage firm that offers free or low-cost trades.(https://www.nerdwallet.com/best/investing/free-stock-trading). If you're interested in starting out in a casual manner, consider stocks that have shareholder perks (https://www.thebalance.com/the-world-of-shareholder-perks-and-benefits-356147). Don't panic when they go down for a few days; you want to be in the market for the long haul. It's fun, but it is gambling in a sense. Only risk what you can afford to lose.

@shoptastic wrote:

@Flash wrote:

Especially during the recession those $10 shops kept me from needing to go into my savings or investments to pay the bills.

Speaking of $10 shops, I picked up some $10 phone shops from Person to Person.

More $ to put into my millionaire jar. $20 here....$8....$7 there....it adds up months end.

So what would you do with it? How would you see your life changing if you reached this magical figure?

@Niner wrote:

So what would you do with it? How would you see your life changing if you reached this magical figure?

Dave Ramsey's final step (in steps to becoming financially secure/a millionaire) - I think Step #7 - is to "Give it all Away." I've always found that inspiring and touching. He doesn't mean it literally, as we'd then be poor and in need of assistance ourselves. But, he does suggest to be generous with your money and help others in need. He talks about how he and his wife and others who have become millionaires from his show audience like to just go out and pay for people's meals and groceries and see their reaction. Giving to charity is another aspect.

I think that would be part of it for me too. Except, I don't wait. I still give to others now along the way. But, I'm sure I'd have more to give if I had more money.

So, I think:

1.) Give it away.
2.) Steward the money and maintain and continue to grow it.
3.) Have more freedom to do what I want with my time.

I think a big part of it is just feeling more financially secure. I don't live my life constantly worrying about finances. But, of course, there is SOME worry. Everyone has that to some degree. If you do not, then you are probably reckless. I think it would simply take a certain level of concern away.

$1M wouldn't do that entirely, but $2M would. Now, if I had $100M or $1B? I would have no idea what I wanted to do. THAT level of money is ridiculous and I couldn't even imagine what I'd want to spend it on.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2019 04:05PM by shoptastic.

I know what I'd do:
Buy a great Condo on the beach, maybe Newport Beach, take a cruise around the world, buy my daughter a great house on Lakeshore Dr., donate to Cancer, find deserving students and pay for their college (a personal favorite), invest in an apartment building letting it pay itself off and of course new stocks in the tech industry, buy a nice car, new clothes and have a ball.....maybe find a handsome Jigalo. One million wouldn't do, I'd need 1 billion We are playing, aren't we?

I like this game. When my gazillions arrive, I will have worked out the details of a perpetually funded tithe & giving program for faith & religious purposes that are important to me. Along these lines, there will be something for specific programs or situations of activism. Then, I can establish a small scholarship fund. This is all about small gifts-- tokens, really-- and allowing students to be resourceful. I will buy up land, lotsa' land, and lotsa' more land. Some will be conserved, some will be worked, and some will be studied. I will live in a large fertile space and learn to become somewhat self-sustaining via land use and the residence itself. When the gazillions arrive, I will have worked out those details...

I have learned that 'in perpetuity' does not mean what it says and therefore will not set up anything that my heirs cannot adjudicate. Less than 100 years ago a donor left about 20 acres of waterfront property to the City for 'public, not-commercial use in perpetuity'. It was open space in the heart of town and was a park with public landing and mooring for boats. When the City 'got an offer they couldn't refuse' they sold the property to construct a high rise hotel and still gave the developer millions in taxpayer cash and years of tax incentives. Originally the plans called for public access to the waterfront with a promenade. That part of the plans has now been quietly dropped so the only public access will be by trespassing on private property.

The mayor responsible for this gross giveaway now apparently has plenty of funding for a run at an available Congressional seat in 2020.

Hmm... Thanks for the reminder about peeps who cannot respect...

re: charities

I think I'd focus on two:

1.) hospitals - everything about them to make them more comfortable and friendly to patients.
2.) Innocence Project - freeing and preventing wrongful convictions in the justice system. Was very touched by Kenny Waters' story portrayed in the movie, Conviction. Hillary Swank played the lead character, Betty Anne, who took something like 18 years to free her wrongfully convicted brother. She had never gone to college and went to college just so she could apply to law school. She got into and finished both. Then, as a lawyer, she helped free her brother via DNA testing.

@shoptastic wrote:

@Flash wrote:

Especially during the recession those $10 shops kept me from needing to go into my savings or investments to pay the bills.

Speaking of $10 shops, I picked up some $10 phone shops from Person to Person.

More $ to put into my millionaire jar. $20 here....$8....$7 there....it adds up months end.

Yeah and at $200/month you’ll have a million dollars in 400 years. Lol

@SoCalMama wrote:

Yeah and at $200/month you’ll have a million dollars in 400 years. Lol

45* years when putting that $200 to work

Compound Interest Calculator

Inputs
Current Principal: $ 0.00
Annual Addition: $ 2,400.00
Years to grow: 45
Interest Rate: 8 % (assumed after fees and inflation)

Results
Future Value: $ 1,001,822.56

@Tarantado wrote:

@SoCalMama wrote:

Yeah and at $200/month you’ll have a million dollars in 400 years. Lol

45* years when putting that $200 to work

Compound Interest Calculator

Inputs
Current Principal: $ 0.00
Annual Addition: $ 2,400.00
Years to grow: 45
Interest Rate: 8 % (assumed after fees and inflation)

Results
Future Value: $ 1,001,822.56

That doesn’t happen in a jar on the counter.

@SoCalMama wrote:

@Tarantado wrote:

@SoCalMama wrote:

Yeah and at $200/month you’ll have a million dollars in 400 years. Lol

45* years when putting that $200 to work

Compound Interest Calculator

Inputs
Current Principal: $ 0.00
Annual Addition: $ 2,400.00
Years to grow: 45
Interest Rate: 8 % (assumed after fees and inflation)

Results
Future Value: $ 1,001,822.56

That doesn’t happen in a jar on the counter.

Oh, I really am dense, as another poster called me. I thought the jar on the counter was a metaphor for a Roth IRA shielding the money in the jar from the tax man!

I assume the jar on the counter is just collecting part of this month's contributions.

@SoCalMama wrote:

@Tarantado wrote:

@SoCalMama wrote:

Yeah and at $200/month you’ll have a million dollars in 400 years. Lol

45* years when putting that $200 to work

Compound Interest Calculator

Inputs
Current Principal: $ 0.00
Annual Addition: $ 2,400.00
Years to grow: 45
Interest Rate: 8 % (assumed after fees and inflation)

Results
Future Value: $ 1,001,822.56

That doesn’t happen in a jar on the counter.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2019 03:30PM by prince.

@prince wrote:

I assume the jar on the counter is just collecting part of this month's contributions.

If we don't respond to trolls, they cannot win.

Equally bad are those who "like" trolls' comments (it's often the same group of disliked posters on this forum that people complain about privately).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 02:02AM by shoptastic.

Even worse is people with passive-aggressive tendencies who post hypocritical comments.

@shoptastic wrote:

(it's often the same group of disliked posters on this forum that people complain about privately).

I said this out of anger - although, there is truth to it.

I've mentioned it several times before (i.e., "a group of 10-15 posters who the overwhelming majority of forum members here dislike and have voiced opposition to in PMs" ) and will address it in another thread. But, it was unfair to just say that in an off-handed remark, as it feels like an attack when people cannot properly respond.

I apologize.

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 02:24AM by shoptastic.

You are saying that there are 10-15 posters that an overwhelming MAJORITY of forum members have PMed you about? Riiiiiiight. Please go ahead and name these forum members that the majority of forum members have been PMing you about, and tell us how many forum members have PMed you. I call BS!!!

@shoptastic wrote:

I've mentioned it several times before (i.e., "a group of 10-15 posters who the overwhelming majority of forum members here dislike and have voiced opposition to in PMs" and will address it in another thread.

I apologize.

@Tarantado wrote:

@SoCalMama wrote:

That doesn’t happen in a jar on the counter.

Oh, I really am dense, as another poster called me. I thought the jar on the counter was a metaphor for a Roth IRA shielding the money in the jar from the tax man!

You two know what the answer is.

I assume SoCalMama has had plenty of opportunity to read through the thread and know we're talking about investing (and saving money).

Contribute something positive or leave those of us here to learn, motivate, and discuss alone!

@JASFLALMT wrote:

You are saying that there are 10-15 posters that an overwhelming MAJORITY of forum members have PMed you about? Riiiiiiight. Please go ahead and name these forum members that the majority of forum members have been PMing you about, and tell us how many forum members have PMed you. I call BS!!!

@shoptastic wrote:

I've mentioned it several times before (i.e., "a group of 10-15 posters who the overwhelming majority of forum members here dislike and have voiced opposition to in PMs" and will address it in another thread.

I apologize.

Me me me me!!!!!!!!!!

Oh no, you mean everyone doesn't love me.....boohoo

Irene, bgriff, I am sure that I am one of the forum members that the MAJORITY of the forum can't stand and shoptastic just gets inundated with PMs about us over and over again. But wait...one thing I don't understand. How is it that none of us have had our posting privileges repeatedly revoked for making incendiary posts and ranting rudely publicly about other forum members? I can think of some pretty recent offensive posts made by shoptastic...should I do a quick search and post the links? That's why I call BS and blatant hypocrisy.

Speaking of monthly contributions, I'm not sure if I have a good "rule of thumb" for buying and selling ratios in relation to fees. This is not relevant for those with free trading accounts.

But, for those who use brokerages that charge a fee whenever you buy and sell (I usually see between $4 to $7 for most of the "big" online discount brokerages like Vanguard, Fidelity, etc.), is your rule to buy and/or sell at a 1% ratio of fees?

In other words, if the brokerage charges $4 to buy or sell a stock/fund, do you buy/sell a MINIMUM of $400 worth each time so that the fee is no more than 1%?

I remember reading a Motley Fool article (or what is it a video?) a year or so ago, where they talked about good rules of thumbs to have. I vaguely remember (don't recall all the details) something like a 1% rule, so you don't "lose" that much every time you buy/sell.

Obviously, if it costs $4 to trade at a brokerage, you'd not want to buy, say, 10 shares of a $4 stock for $40. You're losing 10% immediately. But, then, what rule of thumb DO YOU use?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 03:08AM by shoptastic.