@shoptastic wrote:

This event is no one's fault. ...But, like always, Main Street gets screwed, as Wall Street and corporations get bailed out (just like 2008).

I agree that the 'event' is no one's fault. The response/failure to anticipate/failure to provide adequate response IS.

For my adult decades one party has focused on the 'needs' of Wall Street while the other has focused on Main Street. There are so many more of us that are on Main Street that it is absurd that Wall Street ever wins a single public office. Do we not vote? Do we not understand what is at stake? Do we swallow the lies and fawning and scare tactics?

To me, the greatest pieces of Main Street legislation ever done were Social Security back in the 1930's, which provides a financial security net under the widowed and disabled even before retirement. Medicare (1965). IRAs as an almost accidental Main Street benefit to ERISA done primarily for Wall Street in 1974. Minimum Wage from 1938. Child Labor laws from 1938. Affordable Care Act from 2010. The Executive office for all of this Main Street legislation except ERISA was our Main Street party while the Wall Street party still seeks to strip program funding and redirect it to their special interests.

Smart posters here are not the only people who saw this pattern. Kudos to the above!

So if it is always this way and people can just see it coming based upon historical even after historical event after historical event, why did so many fail to anticipate their potential financial losses? In other words, why was so much bailout money needed by so many unprepared persons and unprepared entities?

@Shop-et-al wrote:

In other words, why was so much bailout money needed by so many unprepared persons and unprepared entities?

Well let's see where we should start with this.

The airline industry as a whole took back $9 BILLION in profits over the past decade in the form of stock buybacks.

A huge majority of the people who lost their jobs were low income people. It's impossible to make ends meet when minimum wage is like $4 an hour. If we had a $15 minimum wage and unemployment actually paid a majority of your wages then there would have been little need for federal PUA.

I could go on.....

So, umm, why does anyone still give them money?????

@Shop-et-al wrote:

So, umm, why does anyone still give them money?????

Because what they did was not illegal, just self-serving. Remember that the big corporate tax breaks were going to generate so much benefit for people and the economy because when their tax rates were reduced they were going to build bigger/better facilities and increase quality production and hire so many people with higher wages. Once again 'trickle down economics' failed. Lower tax rates just enabled bigger C-suite salaries and bonuses (to folks also given a tax break), larger dividends to shareholders to keep them satisfied with those C-suite payments and to boost the dividend further the corporations bought back stock, even if it meant borrowing low interest rate money to do so, such that profits were divvied up between fewer shares. Any real growth in profits was achieved by obtaining more components from outsourcing rather than American jobs performed in America by folks who pay taxes to America.

The next non-Trump POTUS needs to order a special task force to conduct psychological research on violent anti-maskers.

Today, it was reported a San Francisco bus driver was beaten with a baseball bat by riders who refused to wear a mask, which is required to ride the bus.

I'm sick of these stories! Really? Violence over the horrific discomfort of a mask on your face that will save lives? There was a recent article on how our founding fathers would have supported masks. They didn't die for this level of stupidity by people claiming their are exercising their rights.

The founders probably would have disagreed vehemently, but hopefully not with a duel, regarding masking.

Nonetheless, I also intensely dislike beating, shooting, and otherwise dissing the messenger that we have in today's world.

@shoptastic wrote:

The next non-Trump POTUS needs to order a special task force to conduct psychological research on violent anti-maskers.

Today, it was reported a San Francisco bus driver was beaten with a baseball bat by riders who refused to wear a mask, which is required to ride the bus.

I'm sick of these stories! Really? Violence over the horrific discomfort of a mask on your face that will save lives? There was a recent article on how our founding fathers would have supported masks. They didn't die for this level of stupidity by people claiming their are exercising their rights.

Say la vie!!


bgriffin 11k 7y New
Iceland also was lucky enough that they had few cases to begin with. Shutting down the borders and implementing contact tracing worked for them. But much like idiotic people in this country won't wear a mask or allow a shut down, they also won't allow contact tracing. The US will go under because people here are so completely stupid. I for one will be moving the day I am able to.

A great deal of violence, hate and discrimination comes from fear. In an environment where the puppet master is actively stirring up fears with lies, innuendo and baiting you can expect distrust, adherence to wild conspiracy 'theories', dogged adherence to the completely illogical and fear.

I will not play parlor psychology profiling those who feel they need to object to wearing a mask. It should suffice to say that many feel disenfranchised in many ways and accept no personal responsibility for their situation. You can generally gauge the level of disenfranchisement by the runs on guns and ammunition. Notable runs occurred with the election of our first black President because the fear mongers spread rumors that blacks would rise and take over cities from 'entitlement' and whites were in personal danger from black mobs that would steal their homes, possessions and lives. COVID caused a notable run because it was anticipated that the police would all get sick and there would be unrestricted burglary, home invasion and violence for needed food and supplies. There is a current run stirred by POTUS misrepresenting what 'defund the police' is all about.

@expert setter wrote:

Say la vie!!

Are you saying say "la vie", which is "the life" in French, or do you mean "c'est la vie", which literally translates to "this is the life" but is used more as "that's life". Oddly enough those are not really the same thing at all, but French is almost as odd of language as English. For instance it always confused me that pomme means apple and pomme d'terre, which literal translation is apple of the earth, means potato, but pomme frites means French fries but should mean apple fries.

Edited to add because I might have gotten sidetracked:

I'm not sure what either say "la vie" or "c'est la vie" has to do with my post.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 05:21AM by bgriffin.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

So, umm, why does anyone still give them money?????

Because they could give airlines $32 Billion to not fail or they could have used the $32 Billion to provide income for workers out of a job when they did. Oddly enough when big companies throw society as a whole over the barrel like they have in this case, people will complain little about bailing them out, but let them go under and then pay the workers would be horribly socialist and they would be freeloaders and taking a handout and all of those other horrible things and everyone to the right of left leaning moderates would scream bloody murder. Or as one of my favorite tweets ever said:

if you get $100k in student loan debt, that's your problem. if you get sick and your insurance won't cover you, it's on you. if you're a CEO and you run your shitty company into the ground, you get a nice bailout package from the government, always, forever

@Shop-et-al wrote:

The founders probably would have disagreed vehemently, but hopefully not with a duel, regarding masking.

Nonetheless, I also intensely dislike beating, shooting, and otherwise dissing the messenger that we have in today's world.

To me, I think it probably reflects a degree of mental instability in many who commit the violence.

Surely, it can't be just about "rights" can it? ...We don't see people who smoke go out and shoot, stab, beat, or verbally abuse those who ask them to smoke outside of a non-smoking establishment. (Although, we never had a President or government say smoking didn't cause cancer and was a hoax, etc.) You won't see people beating bar tenders for asking for ID to be served alcohol. ...etc.

It's a curious thing this mask wearing and violent confrontations. With so many dead in America already, you'd think we'd have much more sympathetic people. With smoking, second hand smoke takes a longer time to kill you. It's been bizarre as heck.

Another factor might be the lockdowns. We didn't have lockdowns when smoking got banned. etc. I sort of have a sneaking suspicion that a segment of the anti-maskers (not necessarily the violent ones) may have economic motives tied into their response. Maybe their business/jobs have been hurt (which I am very sympathetic to) and combined with misinformation about COVID or how the economy will be affected***, they've fought against it. Of course, there are probably some who also just have strong libertarian type of views undergirding their positions too.

***And, on this point, I think they are wrong and don't realize that reopening without squashing COVID will HASTEN business bankruptcies as I've argued and posted about elsewhere. Fighting the virus and protecting the economy are intertwined and one and the same to a large degree. The problem is, our stupid response sort of lends credence to some of these views possibly. We didn't bail out all businesses and we didn't fully, effectively lockdown.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

So if it is always this way and people can just see it coming based upon historical even after historical event after historical event, why did so many fail to anticipate their potential financial losses? In other words, why was so much bailout money needed by so many unprepared persons and unprepared entities?

a.) Not everyone knows they are being screwed. A lot of Trump voters thought he was going to be a populist, but were fooled. I don't blame those voters. They were desperate and also not the best educated/informed. And, Trump did actually present himself in that way on a lot of issues.

For those of us who have studied, followed, or worked in politics, however, all you had to do was look Trump's donors and researched his history (professional con man his whole career). Instead of draining the swamp, he drowned Washington DC with the swamp (more Goldman Sachs execs/alum than all previous Presidents and his biggest donor was the Mercer family). He had big money supporting him just like Hillary.

b.) Many are still recovering from 2008's Great Financial Crisis.

c.) I feel the wrong question is being asked. I mean, it's hard to get ahead for many when the system is rigged and oligarchs have their foots on your neck (figuratively speaking). ...Really, to me, we should be asking why Americans continue to accept having corporate cash and SuperPACs in politics. This leads to legalized bribery by the rich and corporations (who can outspend average Americans by giant multiples) and an effective oligarchy in the U.S. (as shown by Martin Gilens and Benjamin Page's famous Princeton study).

Hundreds of Texas bar owners defy Gov. Abbott's mandate to close during COVID surge:
[abc13.com]

Houston bars have licenses suspended for violating shutdown order:
[www.khou.com]

It's a war going on! TX has some defiant people.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2020 10:11PM by shoptastic.

Schools reopen in weeks/a month.

@ wrote:

Based on current #coronavirus infection rates, >80% of Americans live in a county where at least 1 infected person would show up to a school of 500 students/staff in the 1st week if school started today.

Schools in #COVID19 hot zones should NOT reopen

[twitter.com]
---Dr. Dena Grayson (wife of former Florida Congressman, Alan Grayson, and a dual Ph.D./MD, who has worked for a decade in anti-viral research) ...I follow her on Twitter, as she's been an expert voice and public educator of the virus.

This New York Times article has this interactive map (it's functional on their webpage) from above:
[www.nytimes.com]

It's actually amazing. You can literally scroll over or type in your city and see how many people would arrive to a school in your area with a COVID infection.