Any Landlords?

I'm curious how the rental industry is being affected by the pandemic.

"There's so much trouble in this world; surrounded by miracles" - Citizen Cope

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Former landlady. Glad I'm not one now. If my renters lost work and couldn't pay. Then it's my problem?
I wouldn't want to evict anyone, but when I was a landlady, I had a mortgage, so where would I be? Yikes.

Now I own a holiday rental. That made $0 since the pandemic. Didn't keep up with condo fees. But subsidized the condo fees a bit.
My sister and bil own a premium beach condo on thewest Florida coast that commanded very high monthly rents (minimum rental is 30 days) until the pandemic. Those high winter rents were all to Canadians who cannot cross the border no. So, much lower winter rents. BUT, with so many people modifying/renovating their own homes for more comfortable tle-commuting, they have been able to get some summer rentals (at much lower prices) and some US-based winter renters are paying about 20% less per winter month. Their established Canadian clients have all reserved winter months for next season, at full rents, with right to cancel if the border remains closed.

All-in-all mortgage, taxes and condo fees remain covered by total rents, but no profit.

Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel

Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
That's what I am curious about: rentals that pay mortgages.

There is financial help for renters and they may or may not forward that help to the landlords. If the landlords fall behind, the property goes into foreclosure and the renter is kicked out.

Who wins other than the banks?

@prince wrote:

Former landlady. Glad I'm not one now. If my renters lost work and couldn't pay. Then it's my problem?
I wouldn't want to evict anyone, but when I was a landlady, I had a mortgage, so where would I be? Yikes.

Now I own a holiday rental. That made $0 since the pandemic. Didn't keep up with condo fees. But subsidized the condo fees a bit.

"There's so much trouble in this world; surrounded by miracles" - Citizen Cope
wales, I didn't even think about the travel bans and how they factor in to the rental industry. Florida and California must be taking big hits.

That's great that the basics are paid. The profits will return.

@walesmaven wrote:

My sister and bil own a premium beach condo on thewest Florida coast that commanded very high monthly rents (minimum rental is 30 days) until the pandemic. Those high winter rents were all to Canadians who cannot cross the border no. So, much lower winter rents. BUT, with so many people modifying/renovating their own homes for more comfortable tle-commuting, they have been able to get some summer rentals (at much lower prices) and some US-based winter renters are paying about 20% less per winter month. Their established Canadian clients have all reserved winter months for next season, at full rents, with right to cancel if the border remains closed.

All-in-all mortgage, taxes and condo fees remain covered by total rents, but no profit.

"There's so much trouble in this world; surrounded by miracles" - Citizen Cope
I’m doing okay with my properties.

1 tenant is retired and literally pays their rent upfront for the entire year.

Other tenant is technically my parents, but they pay no rent, as I bought them the house under my name and use the house as an asset to put cash out whenever I refinance. Refinanced twice so far.

Then the third property is doing fine. Tenant ran into issues with their partner losing their job. But they kept their word and staying on-track with their rent.

I’m holding back from purchasing any more properties, as my money seems to be better off invested in the bull market, and literally any areas out in Colorado just has crazy ROI’s in terms of investment properties. Will eventually dive back in when the market simmers.

Shopping the Greater Denver Area, Colorado Springs and in-between in Colorado. 31 year old male and willing to travel!
That's what upsets me with all these liberal, woke politicians. I feel terrible for the tenant but what about the landlord, the small business owner? Thankfully I was fine as I cut the rent 10% early between tenants while others kept them high, but think of the single parents, elderly, others who depend on the rent they get to subsidize their income, or might be their only income. The city does not forgive real estate taxes, mortgage, hoa fees, need to get paid and the landlord does not get any income.

@HonnyBrown wrote:

That's what I am curious about: rentals that pay mortgages.

There is financial help for renters and they may or may not forward that help to the landlords. If the landlords fall behind, the property goes into foreclosure and the renter is kicked out.

Who wins other than the banks?
That's one of the reasons that I do not include heat and hot water in the rent I ask. Can you imagine to having to pay the heat bill too and the high electricity since they work from home? In most states it is illegal for the landlord to cut the utilities, especially heat, when the tenant does not pay rent.
@KateH wrote:

That's what upsets me with all these liberal, woke politicians.
Btw, I think if it were up to the "super progressives," they'd bailout everything and everyone (a la Europe) - including landlords.

CARES and cares (Dec.'s bill) were under GOP leadership. I don't know how thought out everything was and if they ever considered landlords at all.

CNN had this article a few days ago on landlords: [www.cnn.com]
@ wrote:

The extension of the CDC order is particularly tough on smaller mom-and-pop property owners, many of whom have been running in the red for months, said Pinnegar.

These small independent operators own about 22.1 million rental units, which Pinnegar said is more than half of the nation's supply.

Already some property owners are struggling to meet their financial obligations and maintain their buildings, he said. "Without rent, owners can't afford maintenance or capital improvements necessary to preserve the units," he said, which could have consequences that ripple out into the community and housing industry.

Owners also may not be able to pay the mortgage — which, according to Pinnegar's association accounts for 38 cents of every rent dollar. That puts millions of rental units at risk of foreclosure.
I feel for landlords. My parents rented out their old house for years, but finally sold it after a very bad experience with some military personnel (I think they were sailors of some sort). Damaged the house and fled without paying their final month's rent. This was pre-COVID, though.

Should call/write/bother your political representatives to offer some sort of landlord bailouts. It's not fair for them.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2021 07:49AM by shoptastic.
There is a ban on foreclosures as well, but again, how does one sustain the forebearance if there is no income?

Taxes are another good point. If the mortgage doesn't get paid, neither do the taxes. It's a snowball effect.

@KateH wrote:

That's what upsets me with all these liberal, woke politicians. I feel terrible for the tenant but what about the landlord, the small business owner? Thankfully I was fine as I cut the rent 10% early between tenants while others kept them high, but think of the single parents, elderly, others who depend on the rent they get to subsidize their income, or might be their only income. The city does not forgive real estate taxes, mortgage, hoa fees, need to get paid and the landlord does not get any income.

@HonnyBrown wrote:

That's what I am curious about: rentals that pay mortgages.

There is financial help for renters and they may or may not forward that help to the landlords. If the landlords fall behind, the property goes into foreclosure and the renter is kicked out.

Who wins other than the banks?

"There's so much trouble in this world; surrounded by miracles" - Citizen Cope
They stopped foreclosures and evictions because it does not cost anything to them. The only thing they will do is to have a tax deduction in the future. The provisions in Europe for landlords are a joke. In some countries is tax credits, in others the gov forced landlords to reduce rents to students and others to 50% and either gave them a pittance or again tax credit. In other countries the renter can pay back the owed rent in 2-3 yrs with 4% interest. The politicians like Omar, or worse. Let's be realistic, neither HOAs, nor cities can afford to have taxes and dues forgiven. I know landlords who are very upset because their tenants still get paid but decided to not pay the rent and the landlords worry that these people will just leave when the moratorium is lifted and not pay anything owed. There is an incredible lack of personal responsibility as well as the equity crap among the young millenia crowd, the ones raised with everyone gets an award, do not worry mom and dad will take care of you for everything. They are already the worse employees. Have no understanding what work starts at 9AM means, that you have to be here at that time not at 10 AM. Project not selected by client, bad evaluation review, they are a nightmare to deal with.

[www.insidehousing.co.uk]

@shoptastic wrote:


Should call/write/bother your political representatives to offer some sort of landlord bailouts. It's not fair for them.
One of my brothers bought 3 houses and fixed up while he was working to help supplement his income when he retired.Over the 8 years he had them, he had tenants that would be on a 1 year lease, pay the first & last & security deposit then never pay again. And would call him constantly wanting him to fix something. These were people that had very well paying jobs, a Doctor, teacher,VP of a company,and more. By time he managed to get them evicted the year was up. All the while he had to pay the mortgage and taxes on the properties, eating away at his savings. He sold 2 of the houses by 2018 and just sold his last one the end of 2020. He kept that one as the first tenant he had in there stayed the whole time he owned it and payed his rent a year at a time,and he never had a problem with. The Tenant retired and moved out of state, so that is why he finally sold that house.

I love my landlords, I have lived here 27 years and they never have raised my rent. When my husband passed away suddenly in 2003 they offered to waive the rent for 2 months. They are retired in their mid 80's and the rent supplements their income.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2021 08:03PM by sueac101.
Wow...just wow.

"There's so much trouble in this world; surrounded by miracles" - Citizen Cope
@KateH wrote:

They stopped foreclosures and evictions because it does not cost anything to them....

Evictions were only stopped for those where Covid caused economic hardship, ie loss of income/job.

It didn't prevent evictions due to other circumstances. Nor did it prevent non-renewal of leases. If a landlord chooses not to renew a lease, they just have to give the tenant notice, 30 days in most leases, that they are not renewing the lease or choosing not to go month to month with the tenant and asking them to leave.
@sueac101 wrote:

I love my landlords, I have lived here 27 years and they never have raised my rent. When my husband passed away suddenly in 2003 they offered to waive the rent for 2 months. They are retired in their mid 80's and the rent supplements their income.

When I had rental properties I had a tenant with me for about 8 years. I never raised his rent. He never bothered me and fixed most things that broke on his own. He wouldn't even allow me to take the cost of repairs off his rent.

My wife couldn't understand why I never raised the rent. I tried to explain if I raised the rent $50 per month that would give me an additional $600 per year.

However, if raising the rent caused me to loose the tenant, the house might have been empty for months and I would have had to pay a commission to re-lease it through a realtor. I'd also have to repaint, clean the carpets, maintain the yard while it was vacant and other things.

I felt the possibility of making an additional $600 per year wasn't worth the risk of loosing $800 per month of income for several months. Especially since the rent still covered the mortgage payments.

A tenant that takes care of the property and never bothers the landlord is every landlord's dream.
In more usual times, vacancy is, by far, the most common cause of negative income from rental property. When one has a good, reliable, tenant, modest or no rent increases can be the best plan. Manage for capital gains and/or moving to larger/better properties via tax-deferred property replacement (aka, Section 1031 exchanges) would be my advice.

Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel

Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
That's me, I never bother my landlord, if I can't fix it myself the my brother that lives near by comes over and fixes it for me. I love gardening, so the yard is well taken care of.
A landlord who provides and repairs usable features or amenities as promised is a tenant's dream.


@wrosie wrote:

@sueac101 wrote:


A tenant that takes care of the property and never bothers the landlord is every landlord's dream.

Spring being a tough act to follow, God created June.- Al Bernstein
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I’ve noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born. - Ronald Reagan
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I once had houses in California, New Mexico, and Arizona. All, but one house in California were rentals. I hate to think of not getting the rent for those other houses. I understand the eviction moratorium, and I agree one is needed. However, I dunno how long I would have lasted if the income for the rentals stopped. Ordinarily, selling the house is a good option, but with a renter who is not paying, and a moratorium on evictions, it would be almost impossible to find a buyer. Anyway, I wonder if there was no moratorium if I would find myself in the same situation of no rent coming in. Are qualified renters lined up to fill the vacancy? Are there enough qualified renters to fill the vacancies mass evictions would create? Maybe we will find out around March, April, May or whenever the moratorium ends.
We just got a contract on our last investment property and I cannot wait for it to close.

I have had my fair share of headaches over the years with rental property and have decided it is really not worth it.
@foodluvr wrote:

I have had my fair share of headaches over the years with rental property and have decided it is really not worth it.
Once I heard you sometimes have to clean toilets in managing your properties (granted, you can pay someone to do that), I said: "Nope!"

I don't think I'll ever manage rentals. I don't like dealing with those situations and people in them. They scare me. But, I understand it can be great for those who are handy, understand real estate, and are good with working with people in those situations.

I'm more of a nerd. I'd rather invest in stocks, which takes only a click of the mouse. I'd much rather read/research macroeconomics and company filings than to clean bathrooms, mow lawns, repair plumbing, etc.
Hoping any landlords in Texas are okay!!! Yikes with weather and stories of frozen/burst pipes, etc.!
It's almost a shell game of hand to mouth: tenant pays rent; owner pays bills and gains profit. When the tenant stops paying for whatever reason, the owner is screwed.

While the tenant gets rental assistance, will it go to the landlord?

The landlord can do a forbearance. That doesn't wipe away the debt. It only rolls it to the back of the loan. Now, what does the landlord do about the taxes? Condo fees are piling up and so are paid utilities.

What if the eviction ban gets renewed, but not the foreclosure ban? If the rented homes are foreclosed, then the renters are still out on the street. The same thing if the taxes don't get paid.

This is all an avalanche waiting to happen.

@1forum1 wrote:

I once had houses in California, New Mexico, and Arizona. All, but one house in California were rentals. I hate to think of not getting the rent for those other houses. I understand the eviction moratorium, and I agree one is needed. However, I dunno how long I would have lasted if the income for the rentals stopped. Ordinarily, selling the house is a good option, but with a renter who is not paying, and a moratorium on evictions, it would be almost impossible to find a buyer. Anyway, I wonder if there was no moratorium if I would find myself in the same situation of no rent coming in. Are qualified renters lined up to fill the vacancy? Are there enough qualified renters to fill the vacancies mass evictions would create? Maybe we will find out around March, April, May or whenever the moratorium ends.

"There's so much trouble in this world; surrounded by miracles" - Citizen Cope
@shoptastic wrote:

@foodluvr wrote:

I have had my fair share of headaches over the years with rental property and have decided it is really not worth it.
Once I heard you sometimes have to clean toilets in managing your properties (granted, you can pay someone to do that), I said: "Nope!"

I don't think I'll ever manage rentals. I don't like dealing with those situations and people in them. They scare me. But, I understand it can be great for those who are handy, understand real estate, and are good with working with people in those situations.

I'm more of a nerd. I'd rather invest in stocks, which takes only a click of the mouse. I'd much rather read/research macroeconomics and company filings than to clean bathrooms, mow lawns, repair plumbing, etc.

We ended up becoming landlords out of necessity. Inherited one piece of property and got transferred for work and had to rent another when the real estate market went south.

We hired management companies to handle the day today but still I wouldn't do it again.
@foodluvr wrote:

We hired management companies to handle the day today but still I wouldn't do it again.
Ah, that's another thing. When speaking with family members who've used agents to manage their rentals, they said it could be a pain getting a hold of them (literally weeks without a phone response...and you're paying them!).

I know it doesn't have to be that way, but just from hearing stories of an old college mate and two family members doing/having done this, I know it's not for me. I have zero interest in real estate and don't like trouble-shooting and working with people to solve issues in those areas.
I always had single family homes and used a property management company. I didn't have the time, and I did not want to personally interact with the renters and deal with problems. Also, with property in different states, I needed a property management company.

@HonnyBrown ... looks like landlords will get screwed. More should be done to help. Seems like that $1400 dollar stimulus non paying renters receive should be redirected directly to their landlords or something for example. There are some landowners with deep pockets, and can withstand the setback, and know that in time things will turn around. To them, it's a bump in the road, and maybe an opportunity to obtain more property at greatly reduced prices. Then, there are people like I was. I could deal with some temporary income reduction, but I would be a sweating nervous wreck. Long term income reduction could be devastating if I could not sell.
@1forum1 wrote:

I always had single family homes and used a property management company. I didn't have the time, and I did not want to personally interact with the renters and deal with problems. Also, with property in different states, I needed a property management company.

@HonnyBrown ... looks like landlords will get screwed. More should be done to help. Seems like that $1400 dollar stimulus non paying renters receive should be redirected directly to their landlords or something for example. There are some landowners with deep pockets, and can withstand the setback, and know that in time things will turn around. To them, it's a bump in the road, and maybe an opportunity to obtain more property at greatly reduced prices. Then, there are people like I was. I could deal with some temporary income reduction, but I would be a sweating nervous wreck. Long term income reduction could be devastating if I could not sell.

I agree with you! And I probably could have written this post. We were in different states and I had no desire and no time to deal with issues.

Additionally, I was bringing in just enough to cover the expenses with a little bit left over for cushion. I had a tenant that was historically late and short and I could deal with it for a little while but I would have no desire/ability to bankroll a non-paying tenant long-term.
@1forum1 wrote:

Seems like that $1400 dollar stimulus non paying renters receive should be redirected directly to their landlords or something for example.
This was the most recent stimulus check usage polling I could find:
So, would there be no legal recourse if Tenant Bob decided to take his stimulus and/or enhanced unemployment money to do anything/everything, except pay rent (knowing there was a moratorium) and then after the bans lapse say he had no money and not pay all the back rent to Landlord Lucy?

Are there people potentially gaming this?
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