Financial Independence isn't hard if you just follow the simple steps of earn, save, and invest. The US stock market is near all time highs again. If you were to invest in broad stock indexes you would see a growth in asset value of about 13% year to date. Do this for the duration of your career, grab any employer match.

Meanwhile, I personally know of individuals who find it hard to save. Now retired, one individual has a very small pension and Social Security income. She won't cook much for herself and instead buys prepared food in the grocery store or food from restaurants. She has slowly sold some of her belongings for small cash payments. Of course, she has to drive to other towns burning fuel for these trivial payments. Then she buys a Starbucks coffee on the way home. This is just a small part of her story. Her husband died about 2 yrs ago. She doesn't speak to her own child. My spouse and I have been asked to be her executors. We respectfully declined encouraging her to speak to her child.

Simple logic cannot be explained to some people. It's incredible how they rationalize their own illogical behavior.

I see the day where she becomes unable to stay in her home, forced to a senior care facility. Meanwhile we perform routine maintenance on her vehicle and minor repairs to her house.

Just thought I'd share this with, as best as I can tell, the mature crowd here.

Get your affairs in order. 😕

To spend one's limited funds on Starbucks, seems like a complete waste.

If she was using it on a really good cup of coffee, in a location where she is enjoying the atmosphere or meeting a friend for moral/social uplift - I could see it as a justifiable indulgence. But Starbucks......

@MMMM wrote:

To spend one's limited funds on Starbucks, seems like a complete waste.

If she was using it on a really good cup of coffee, in a location where she is enjoying the atmosphere or meeting a friend for moral/social uplift - I could see it as a justifiable indulgence. But Starbucks......

My spouse just told me that this woman is looking into food stamps. So now all taxpayers get to pay for her poor fiscal skills.

[www.youtube.com]

@maverick1 wrote:

@MMMM wrote:

My spouse just told me that this woman is looking into food stamps. So now all taxpayers get to pay for her poor fiscal skills.


WOW.]

Financial independence and wealth are relative to lifestyle and cost of living. The average person with a limited or capped earning potential can be content with slow, steady, and modest returns over the course of their lifetime.

For the rich, a daily handcrafted beverage won't make a dent. For the wealthy, it's pocket change.

If you're already well-off and set, the key is to keep it. Most successful people will tell you to learn to say no. When you say yes to someone, you commit to fulfilling something on your end and taking responsibility for an expectation or outcome that someone will hold you to.

I see some who are rich, not wealthy, eventually get sucked dry by having to support multiple generations. Very young children who require childcare and very old parents who require eldercare are understandable. However, it becomes extremely messy when they continue to financially support children into their adult years or able-bodied parents with no retirement plans.

no. financial independence is simple. its very hard. if it was easy more people would accomplish it. if hard work led to wealth then every mother in Africa would be a millionaire.

<<<if hard work led to wealth then every mother in Africa would be a millionaire.>>.

yes, there are many factors involved...

@cooldude581 wrote:

no. financial independence is simple. its very hard. if it was easy more people would accomplish it. if hard work led to wealth then every mother in Africa would be a millionaire.

Being born in the right place, at the right time, healthy and loved, with access to quality education and good role models ........it will give you a wind in your back when the life race starts.

People would call or come to our home when we were kids and ask my father for money. They never paid him back, which is another story, and many know that one. Anyway, I remember my sister and I were eavesdropping on my parents talking in private. My father said to my mother: "Who is telling people we have a money tree in the back yard?" We were so excited and kept looking for it, as the yard was big and full of fruit trees, pines and other types, not telling my parents what we were looking for.

@MMMM wrote:

@cooldude581 wrote:

no. financial independence is simple. its very hard. if it was easy more people would accomplish it. if hard work led to wealth then every mother in Africa would be a millionaire.

Being born in the right place, at the right time, healthy and loved, with access to quality education and good role models ........it will give you a wind in your back when the life race starts.

I always thought that the idea of reincarnation would be fitting for specific individuals to come back as a different race, gender, nationality, family dynamic, etc.

Regarding lending money to family and friends, it's not a loan; it's a form of charity. I'm glad to learn that lesson indirectly through my parents and their family dynamics with siblings. Both of my parents were the oldest of large families. My dad primarily provided for his elderly parents and all his younger siblings without any support or repayment. His one sibling was well-off but never contributed a dime or a moment of their time. My mom also had to support his family growing up. My mom never bad-mouthed them and told us to maintain relationships with our extended family, but shared all the family secrets with us when we were older, to warn and teach us to be better. I gained a great deal of respect for my parents.

No, it really is as simple as earn, save and invest. To do that, you must spend less than you earn. To earn more, you need to invest in your career and move up the ladder. Like Einstein said, compounding is the 8th wonder of the world. It takes a while to get started and save about 100K. Then, the magic begins and a diversified portfolio grows and grows.

This would continue for decades. And then? You'll see the plan of 25X or it's simple inverse of 0.04. That's the number from the Trinity study on how much you can withdraw from your accumulated assets and retire early.

There are many, many blogs and web sites on the internet describing this is much more detail.

So why don't more people achieve financial independence?

It doesn't happen overnight. So they give up. They lack the will to follow a plan for decades. They lack the will.

Yes, investing and compound interest are basic common knowledge that more than half of high schools teach their students now. I guess it's worth repeating a million times and saying it a million different ways, and acting like it's some big industry insider secret each time.

@tznmvi wrote:

Yes, investing and compound interest are basic common knowledge that more than half of high schools teach their students now. I guess it's worth repeating a million times and saying it a million different ways, and acting like it's some big industry insider secret each time.

@tznmvi
I know, it's like some sort of cheat code. But you have to be faithful in doing it.

...not unlike a relationship with a spouse. (um, that one is without the cheating)

A strange analogy.

In one's younger years, obviously, is when the advantage of compound interest and being able to take risks with bigger payoffs to recover is the time.

As one is established and gets older, allocations and access to investments change. Ideally, one would still engage in something that generates income. Hopefully, one doesn't need to have a roboadvisor mentality to invest every waking dollar into their old age. It's counterintuitive at that point.

So many people are addicted to coffee and need it to get their day started. Fortunately I never liked the taste or smell esp. in my younger years. It's crushed beans and hot water that people dump cream and sugar in to make it taste better. There's also an aftertaste that makes you more thirsty. My distaste for coffee has saved me a lot $. I generally don't buy drinks unless they're included in a meal. Lemon water cleanses the palate and keeps you better hydrated. Starbucks capitalized on people's need for coffee and made a killing, but they got too greedy with the pricing and created a backlash. Dumb move.

i dont like coffee or alchohol. i just blow $350 on a night of gambling at a casino like 2 times a year



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2025 01:53PM by cooldude581.

My father always helped my other family members. Bio siblings and step siblings, but never me. I had a decent job at a bank, was recently divorced, and was trying to get my first apartment. I swallowed my pride and asked my father to loan me $600, and I would repay him by a specific time. He told me no, said I had a good job, and I needed to learn how to budget. I was essentially taking over the apartment that my step-sibling and their spouse were leaving. I just walked my petrified little but over to the leasing office, explained my dilemma, and we hatched out a plan.

Some years later, I moved out of state, landed a great job, and things were going well. I had come home for a visit and was in a rental car, so I paid for my gas with an American Express card at the local gas station. Word got around that my father's rich daughter was home, so people came by to visit. On one visit, Daddy was gushing about how I never asked for money and was always so independent, never needing any help. My stepmother retorted, 'Yeah, she never got a handout or loan from you, so she always figured it out.' My uncle (the visitor) said you must be doing pretty well to have an AMEX card, a Toyota Corolla, and get on a plane whenever you feel like it.

I told the story about asking daddy for help and him telling me I had a good job to stop wasting my money and figure it out. I then went on to say that the AMEX card got me a plane ticket for $35, and the Toyota was a rental. I mentioned that I would work 80-hour weeks, and I was far from being rich; I just borrowed and repaid Dino's savings account. My father was furious, my step-mother got her point across, and my uncle thought being frugal would make my mother proud.

Moral of the story. Only you can make it work for you, no one else cares about you.

I constantly remind myself that I know for sure that I will not ever let myself down and I always have my own back.

Hence, the old phrase; "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is an idiom meaning to succeed through your own hard work and self-reliance, without outside help.

Or as my mother said to me as a child looking out the window, "See that baby bird in the nest? Notice that once he leaves the nest, he never comes back."

And she handed you a piggy bank.

@maverick1 wrote:

Simple logic cannot be explained to some people. It's incredible how they rationalize their own illogical behavior.

People are lazy. Seems that they are even lazier after the stimulus checks.

@BayShopper22 wrote:

@maverick1 wrote:

Simple logic cannot be explained to some people. It's incredible how they rationalize their own illogical behavior.

People are lazy. Seems that they are even lazier after the stimulus checks.

Or when the Fed printed a trillion of dollars to bail out the market during Covid. Lazy investors retired early off that.

There will always be people who want the "easy way"; they are the students in the back of the class cheating, shoplifting in stores, or given someone else's tax receipts to contribute nothing to society just to name a few.

It's why law and order needs enforcement in a society.

There are three people who work for me who work very hard. Unless God intervenes, they will never be financially independent. Two quick stories.... One of them is in her late 20's, works full time, and is in nursing school. She is single with four small kids, and two of them have chronic illnesses. She had a husband who left her, was somewhat abusive among other things, and the inevitable divorce happened. The ex-husband, well, is a jerk. I will leave it at that. A couple of weeks ago she could not make it here to work. She sent pictures of the tires on her car and you could see the steel belts. We offered her an advance, not the first time we gave her one, but I told my better half why don't you just buy the tires. A couple of days ago she got a notice that she needed to vacate her apartment in 4 days! The rent went up, new ownership, and it was no longer affordable. There is no family support for her. She is alone. She had been looking for another apartment for weeks, but as someone once said, "The rent is too damn high," and I might add, everywhere. How she maintains her sanity, I don't know. Financial independence is not easy for a woman who's husband left her with four small kids, two of them sickly. She is a very hard worker, mother, and student. I am concerned she might miss some school and be kicked out of the program. They are very strict. Becoming a nurse might be her only possible way to climb the ladder. But my Lord, what mountains to climb. Financial independence is not an equal opportunity employer.

Another employee recently had her life savings stolen from her bank account. The bank is refusing to reimburse her. Furthermore, she was billed over $10,000 for an emergency room stay in the hospital. Her insurance company told her we dropped your insurance two years ago. What!!?? Anyway, there are details to all of these situations but the details ain't the point. Financial independence is not easy for a lot of people, including very hard working fugal people. Life has curve balls. Death, divorce, illness, company closures, etc., and in some cases a combination of those things, can be devastating.

For as long as I can remember, my father would tell me, "Save your money." Bless his heart. That was the only financial advice he gave me. That's all he knew. I wish he had some investment knowledge. I wish he would have told me as this one lady did when I was in my very young twenties, "Buy you a house." Silly me, I thought buying a house was for people my parents age. Im just gonna save some money in between my partying. I wish that lady had said more than just, "Buy a house." She had several by the way, but sat me down and explain the process and walk me through what it takes and the advantages and so forth. Years ago I read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. It is easy to have financial independence if you have a rich dad. If you have a poor dad, not so easy.

Exactly 1forum1. You can do all the right things and life can still beat you down with a bad luck stick.

I am grateful that we still have around us, good people who are capable of compassion.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2025 03:04PM by BarefootBliss.

@maverick1 I agree with you that people need to save and frivolous purchases like a daily Starbucks or less than astute purchases like prepared food which can hover $11-13 a pound in these parts when you could buy a frozen dinner for a fraction of the price (maybe a third) and put it in the microwave or oven. Eating out on the daily or buying prepared food from the hot line doesn't help the pocketbook if you are concerned about money.

I think financial independence does come down to a combination of saving, luck, time, and sticking to the plan. Not everyone has access to employer matches. Like @1forum1 mentioned life does throw curveballs at people. People lose their jobs, get sick, may have to take care of a sick family member which can impact people's savings and investing plans. Some people's spouses might not have the same perspective on saving which can also put a dent on one's goal.

So the market is up this year (13% YTD), but that is not the case every year. Imagine if someone got in the QQQs, MSFT, or S&P 500 at their respective highs in 1999/2000, it would've taken them 15-16 years just to get back to break even on the first two and 13 years with the S&P 500. They would also see steep declines in the 40% range within 36 months of hitting those highs with the S&P 500 and an 80% drop with the QQQ in a time shorter frame.

I think it would take tremendous discipline, conviction, and vision to stay in the tech heavy QQQ after experiencing those declines. I get it, there isn't going to be the "all's clear" bell that is rung for people to jump back in - except the Mark Haines' signal.

People with modest means can also achieve financial independence. We all make financial missteps. Even Einstein with his wisdom, observation about compounding, and fame was not a rich man. He gave most of his Nobel prize money to his ex-wife that was to support the kids and to satisfy their divorce decree. Kids are expensive! He also didn't try to capitalize on his fame through commercials, but he did receive nice fees for speaking engagements. The important lesson to learn from him besides compounding is he lived below his means.

I know people that buy a new car as soon as their "old" one is paid off. That makes no sense to me. I like not having a car note. It's one less bill.

@Momomomo wrote:

@maverick1 I agree with you that people need to save and frivolous purchases like a daily Starbucks or less than astute purchases like prepared food which can hover $11-13 a pound in these parts when you could buy a frozen dinner for a fraction of the price (maybe a third) and put it in the microwave or oven. Eating out on the daily or buying prepared food from the hot line doesn't help the pocketbook if you are concerned about money.

I think financial independence does come down to a combination of saving, luck, time, and sticking to the plan. Not everyone has access to employer matches. Like @1forum1 mentioned life does throw curveballs at people. People lose their jobs, get sick, may have to take care of a sick family member which can impact people's savings and investing plans. Some people's spouses might not have the same perspective on saving which can also put a dent on one's goal.

So the market is up this year (13% YTD), but that is not the case every year. Imagine if someone got in the QQQs, MSFT, or S&P 500 at their respective highs in 1999/2000, it would've taken them 15-16 years just to get back to break even on the first two and 13 years with the S&P 500. They would also see steep declines in the 40% range within 36 months of hitting those highs with the S&P 500 and an 80% drop with the QQQ in a time shorter frame.

I think it would take tremendous discipline, conviction, and vision to stay in the tech heavy QQQ after experiencing those declines. I get it, there isn't going to be the "all's clear" bell that is rung for people to jump back in - except the Mark Haines' signal.

People with modest means can also achieve financial independence. We all make financial missteps. Even Einstein with his wisdom, observation about compounding, and fame was not a rich man. He gave most of his Nobel prize money to his ex-wife that was to support the kids and to satisfy their divorce decree. Kids are expensive! He also didn't try to capitalize on his fame through commercials, but he did receive nice fees for speaking engagements. The important lesson to learn from him besides compounding is he lived below his means.

I know people that buy a new car as soon as their "old" one is paid off. That makes no sense to me. I like not having a car note. It's one less bill.

@Momomomo

You got the concept correct. But it's about the execution. I was raised by a mom who got divorced with three kids. Mom was a secretary. Pay wasn't high. I remember when the central heater broke and we used a space heater until mom saved for a replacement central heater. I learned persistence, saving, and bullheadedness from mom. I worked my way through college. I lived with my spouse in a single wide trailer until we could afford a small house. I performed all home and vehicle repairs to save money, including Mom's home and car. I got so good at saving and investing that I was able to retire early with a severance package. According to my calculations, I'll likely never spend all our savings. Please don't tell me financial independence (FI) can't be done by anyone in the US. You have to have the will, the desire, the internal motivation to achieve FI. Unless an asteroid hits you dead, there is no valid excuse. The US is the land of exceptionalism!

@maverick1 wrote:

@Momomomo

You got the concept correct. But it's about the execution. I was raised by a mom who got divorced with three kids. Mom was a secretary. Pay wasn't high. I remember when the central heater broke and we used a space heater until mom saved for a replacement central heater. I learned persistence, saving, and bullheadedness from mom. I worked my way through college. I lived with my spouse in a single wide trailer until we could afford a small house. I performed all home and vehicle repairs to save money, including Mom's home and car. I got so good at saving and investing that I was able to retire early with a severance package. According to my calculations, I'll likely never spend all our savings. Please don't tell me financial independence (FI) can't be done by anyone in the US. You have to have the will, the desire, the internal motivation to achieve FI. Unless an asteroid hits you dead, there is no valid excuse. The US is the land of exceptionalism!

It's always more loser than winners in this world, because it's always much easier to blame literally everything else but oneself. Is financial independence hard? Well it depends. Are you the type that would will ways to make yourself better? or are the the type that will always complain about the world isn't fair and how you've always done good enough?

One small trick that maybe able to help save up some side cash is to open a saving account from an online bank (Capital one, discover, Ally bank etc), when you receive the debit card, go destroy that card, and then set a auto transfer from you main account. Either monthly or bi-weekly, it does not matter the beginning amount. At least start doing it. You can even do a weekly transfer of $10 or $20. and then just leave it there. The whole purpose of this is to make it in a way this auto transfer has turned itself into a monthly/weekly subscription fee type of thing, but not to your netflix, not to your onlyfans, but to your rainy days.

After a while when you suddenly remember that your online bank account exist, you log in and see how much you have saved, you have built up your confidence already, you can start tuning up the amount and go from there.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2025 09:48PM by kisekinecro.