shoppinalong -- Actually, we are not told how to do the jobs. We are not told what format to use. We are not told we need to keep to a script and use specific language throughout the shop. We are not told that we have to do the shop at a specific time but, rather, given a time range. We do right our own reports. At least, I don't have the MSC writing my reports. We are not told that we have to wear a certain color pants and shirt. We have a lot of flexibility that employees do not have. I do not believe the items you listed above would violate the IRS's definition of an IC.

I did not read the entire first email explaining the reasoning...it was just too long and I have all those shop directions to read...in any case, my only brush with an EIN is when my mom died. I am her trustee for her estate and had to get an EIN. The year that she died I filed using her ssn since I had not yet gotten the EIN. A few months later I filed the final tax form for the estate. My tax acct told me that the govt did not care which number you use as long as they get the tax return. Well, he used the EIN on the final form. This was filed in July of 2011 along with a check made out to the IRS. Everything else on the tax form was the same info as the prior form other than the ein instead of ssn. In April of 2012 I got a letter from the irs telling me that they had a check and owed the estate money because the tax form had never been filed. It turned out they could not figure out that these two persons with the same name and address and title on the accts...and even some 1099's with the old ssn on them attached were the same person. They advised me if they did not hear back they would destroy the check (and I assume we would get penalized for not paying the tax in the first place.)
In any case the reason i am writing this is because EIN's are used for many different reasons and it seems the IRS has no way of knowing who you are if you use one, at least in the case of my mom. They threw away the tax return I sent in with the original check!!! And it took them 9 mos to get in touch with me about it. So, I for one, am not a fan of thinking things will work out with an EIN. My husband, by the way, does contract work in a different industry and is considered self employed. He has never been asked to get an EIN.

sandyf -- Exactly. I have an acting business that I do mostly as an IC and have never had to get an EIN. The fact that Trendsource is requiring one sends up a huge red flag for me.

Some one tell me how you do a Office Depot shop count every type of copy paper and every toner and ink and do a report in 20 minutes? Give me a break Rip off

shopperbob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The word "fair" has been used in this thread, in
> my opinion, in an incorrect manner. As shoppers,
> we are self-employed contractors, and as such have
> the total freedom to apply for or reject any
> offers we receive. No MSC has the slightest
> obligation to treat us in, according to what we
> consider, an equitable fashion. Their
> responsibility is to their shareholders, to,
> through following a profitable business model,
> increase equity.
>
> I have not, nor will I comply with any request to
> apply for an EIN, BUT, that's my prerogative. In
> addition, I've no interest in working to aid
> schedulers or MSCs in their pursuit of success by
> accepting work that isn't profitable; I work only
> for Bob and to increase his net worth.
Totally agree, Bob, I continue to be amazed that everytime something new arises that shoppers go nuts about it. I thought that as a group we would be open to change and make our own decisions based on sound research and good info. I wonder though, Bob , how many of these MSCs have shareholders since they are for the most part, not public. Investors, maybe.

I don't think shoppers go nuts every time there is something new. We do have some great debates about subjects like EINs and new payment methods. Since we are businesses ourselves that is a good thing and we need to be informed. Just like the MSCs our bottom line is the most important factor when making a decision. This would cause me unnecessary expense so it makes no sense to change the way I do business for one company. For others it makes perfect sense. Going beyond the requirement for an EIN is the lame reasoning behind the whole thing. Now that makes me nuts

cynb,

A company need not be public to have shareholders.

jleetw1,

Trendsource frequently under estimates job completion time AND factors distance using CFM.

I'll bite, what is CFM?

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll bite, what is CFM?


Taking a wild stab at this: Crow Flight Milage?

Now I get it. Similar to looking at two places on a map and thinking it couldn't take that long to drive an inch.

Well, it seems they are still confused. When I emailed them that I kept on getting this message that I should update my profile and complete the EIN, I was told the EIN was only for US agents. And yet, I am unable to do anything because I have no EIN, according to the message.

This happened before. They kept on asking me to do the Business Verification and when I said I did not want to have another police clearance as I just had it done for some jobs, as well as for jury dut, they told me that it is not a requirement for Canadians. So I went ahead and applied for the BV and guess what? I was told I was not qualified because I did not have a background check. And this happened a few times, with MSI not understanding that there was something wrong with their system.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2012 01:20AM by risinghorizon.

I have to wonder why they want background checks? We're not going into people's homes, we're not dealing with a business' cash. So, why do they need background checks and what do the background checks entail? Some have posted concerns about auto dealerships and apartment shops conducting credit checks. Is that what Trendsource is doing? There are just huge red flags for this company in my opinion.

avitoots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to wonder why they want background checks?
> We're not going into people's homes, we're not
> dealing with a business' cash. So, why do they
> need background checks and what do the background
> checks entail? Some have posted concerns about
> auto dealerships and apartment shops conducting
> credit checks. Is that what Trendsource is doing?
> There are just huge red flags for this company in
> my opinion.


Actually in some cases you are going into people's homes for these. I don't do the business verifications but I think for the company you are doing them for it is a very big deal and that is why the background check is required.

Liz

You are interacting with business owners and representing the MSC when you do these type of assignments. You cannot fault the MSC for wanting to be sure they are sending in agents that are somewhat above reproach.

I will stand behind an argument about the pay structure being low or the EIN requirement being foolish, but I have to agree the background check is a good idea.

What kind of shops are you doing where you are going into people's homes?

I disagree. It is an invasion of privacy to do a background check on me without an adequate explanation of why they feel the need to do so. I know that one client requires that and won't do those jobs. Furthermore, if it's that important for their business model, then they should pick up the cost of the background check. I believe I read someone's post that said they had to pay for the background check.

avitoots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of shops are you doing where you are
> going into people's homes?


Some businesses are run out of homes and, therefore, those business verifications are done inside private residences.

avitoots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I disagree. It is an invasion of privacy to do a
> background check on me without an adequate
> explanation of why they feel the need to do so. I
> know that one client requires that and won't do
> those jobs. Furthermore, if it's that important
> for their business model, then they should pick up
> the cost of the background check. I believe I
> read someone's post that said they had to pay for
> the background check.


Totally agree that the company should pay for the background check either with increased shop fees or reimbursement after your first assignment is complete, but it's not an invasion of privacy if you agree to it. Performing a check without your authorization would be an invasion of privacy.

I'll give you the reason for the requirement, since the company would obviously be offending people if they offered it; You have no idea what kind of of people sign up for mystery shopping! A number of shoppers are thought to be previously convicted felons, because it's a very easy job for them to get without having to disclose their status.

I have said this else where and will stand behind it; Background checks are a requirement for all Nevada shoppers and the number of rejected reports for flaking, plagiarism or mistruths is greatly reduced there. If a nationwide system similar to that was in place, shoppers would receive better pay and more respect overall.

You also have to have PI license to do mystery shopping in Nevada. Quite frankly, if they want to find out if someone has a criminal conviction they just have to look it up in the court database. That is a public record. I still consider it an invasion of privacy for this kind of work. Again, we don't deal with money and, quite frankly, I have no idea what kind of shop would put someone in a person's home.

You don't need a PI license to shop in Nevada. You need to BE licensed by the Private Investigators Licensing Board (PIL, which is a different process and involves a background check.

...and we do deal with money. We present pictures of receipts for products purchased in exchange for reimbursement (and hopefully a decent payment). Sometimes cash is required for these purchased. If you were an MSC, would you want to be doing this kind of business with someone who had previously been arrested for fraud?

Every company I work for that does Business Verification requires background checks. MANY companies, even if you don't touch their cash or go into peoples homes, require background checks. While I may agree with the cost aspect, a background check is totally reasonable.

My husband is a hockey ref and he pays for his own background checks - just the way it goes. Some of the business verifications are for very small businesses that operate out of homes..thus on occasion you are going into a home.

Liz

When I first signed on with TrendSource I paid for my background check. And I was able to get a copy of it. It was so simple that I could have done it. Looked like someone just did a Google on my name!

Actually most assignments are vague enough to qualify as IC work. At one time I had 12 employees and 5 ICs doing technical electronics, and got pretty familiar wit the rules.

I could tell an IC "this job needs to be done by Tuesday" and be ok - telling him I wanted the job worked between 10 AM and noon Tuesday would be deemed control of timing and cast doubt on the IC relationship. The other very key factor in this is that the shopper is in total control of when the work is done - shopper selects the job, has freedom not to select it, and this controls the times when s/he works.

I had 2 ICs working on location at a department store for which I provided service. I could tell them I wanted them in business casual at a minimum - but I could not dicate the complete outfit style and color.

We used a specific workorder when billing and that was not an issue since I provided the blanks. However I could not tell ICs in what order to populate fields on the screen to produce work orders, and could not tell them when during the repair process to initiate the work order - my employees were made to generate a work order at the intial point of contact with a customer, the ICs tended to want to do them at completion.

All these discussions of what an IC actually is and does are fun, but the ultimate decision at least in NY rests with the Unemployment Insurance determinantion board, and to a lesser extent, the Worker's Comp Board and the relevant insurance carrier.


shoppinalong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Their own words defeat their purpose.
>
> >>>>an individual is an independent contractor if
> the payer has the right to control or direct only
> the result of the work and not what will be done
> and how it will be done.<<<<<
>
>
> We ARE told what, how ,when. how to dress,what
> questios to ask, given scenarios, guidelines, and
> reports which are pre-made and pre-printed which
> may be rejected
> if not inclusive of how you are told to do the
> shop, when you are told to complete the shop, what
> scenario you are told to present, and what to
> ask.
>
> An Independent Contractor would make their own
> report in their own words and be told simply " go
> to store ABC and find out what they are doing with
> our product".
>
> We are not indendent contractors. You can call a
> raccoon a bear, but it's still a raccoon.

ArtfromNY -- For the past year or so, it has been the IRS that has been cracking down on companies that hire temps or ICs to avoid paying payroll taxed, unemployment, etc. They treat the temps and ICs the same as those on their payroll. Whether you have an EIN or not is of no consequence. If mystery shoppers were treated the same as the employees on their payroll, Trendsource would have a serious problem. However, you haved laid out the argument for why shoppers would not be categorized as employees as opposed to ICs. As you said, we usually have many hours during the day when we can do a shop, we have many hours after the shop to write and submit the report, etc. We pretty much do not report to anyone directly. Therefore, the demand for EINs by Trendsource makes no sense.

nicelytwicely Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They've extended the deadline to get an EIN, which
> seems to infer that a lot of folks aren't
> complying.


Hoping to get this thread back on point.

I had to pay for my background check for my volunteer work. The only background check I did not have to pay was for the airport pass and I think the jury duty as my company paid for it, I think.

The issue I was presenting was Trendsource/MSI insisting that Canadians do not need a background check for BV when they wanted me to do one of those, yet, their system would not give me the job without a background check.

The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing...and that is exactly what is happening with EIN in my case, at least.

TravelLiz -- There's a little bit of a difference between being a hockey ref and doing mystery shopping especially if your husband refs kid's games.

The one and only BV I completed for Trendsource (pre-background check requirement) was at a home-based business. Later I refused to pay for my own because I did not have the ability to self-assign BVs and couldn't count on getting enough jobs to justify the cost. Besides, since I was going into this guys home why didn't they provide me a copy of his background check? It could have been dangerous for me was well.

That is so true. Isn't it interesting that they're concerned about protecting themselves and their client but not making sure their shoppers are safe?