Interesting discussion.

I recently took a part-time job in the "casual dining" area. I called my various MS companies and asked how that would affect my eligibility. I discovered I am no longer eligible for certain shops, but it did not affect my eligibility for other shops.

Every company thanked me for updating them on my status.

For the record, I consider myself somewhat "rigid" on the morality scale -- and I don't have a single
problem with scenarios! For those that do, just pass on those shops.

I personally find enacting a scenario to be no more morally challenging than dealing with an angry client/customer in a calm and reasonable way when I really want to beat him down to the floor and tell him what a stupid ass he is...OK, that would be "honest", but it sure wouldn't be "fair" to my employer, who expects me to treat the customer professionally and courteously -- even if I don't feel like it. What's the difference between enacting a scenario and a boss standing by his secretary's desk and saying "oh, that's Joe Blow on the phone? Tell him I'm out of town for the week", and the
poor secretary, with her boss standing right over her, has to say "Mr. Blow, I'm terribly sorry, but
Mr. DieHard is out of town for the rest of the week".

And a certain amount of deceit exists in the everyday world, when we bump into someone we dislike intensely, and tell them "have a nice day", or use common courtesy when we actually don't want to.
We could get into a real moral quagmire if we approached common civility as "lying" and all lying as being "wrong".

Would you really tell your significant other "well, if you bought those pants because you thought they were slimming -- you were wrong"?

cease

I am not angry. Some of the comments gave me the impression he does not hold what we do in very high esteem and always makes me wonder why someone would choose this business while feeling that way. He also encouraged others to lie in order to get an assignment and said he does the same. I also get the whole tongue in cheek thing........now. Rather than just come back and say "Hey folks it was a joke," or something of that nature he chose the attitude that the ends justify the means.

Think about this. We all work hard to be considered professionals in order to show the MSCs we have skills and should be paid as professionals. Blatant disregard of policies compounded by suggesting others do the same does not leave the impression of a professional who takes the job seriously. As of now we have precious little power in regards to improving this business. Despite all the fun and silliness, this forum has been a voice for many shoppers and shows that we are in fact pros. Comments like that are akin to taking a giant step backwards.

Isn't mystery shopping a lot our opinion anyway? No, timings are not. Specific pictures of what food should look like is not. But our opinion of how it tastes and how it looks and if the person who took our and served us greeted us and were pleasant.

I try not to let opinion get into it. I try to evaluate customer service from the viewpoint of the company, not from my personal viewpoint. Would the company describe the greeting as friendly? Would the company describe the representative as engaged? Would the company describe the service as attentive?

Dspeaks, you said, "Sorry, but our untrue statements do NOT have an effect on anyone's future." When an salesperson is engaged with you, they are missing another customer who might be a real customer attached to a real commission. Who knows where that real customer would have led via referrals, repeat business, and upsell? If it is a part of a known and authorized training program, the moral loop is closed, but it still has chosen a path in history for that person without their informed consent.

Competitor shops blatantly cross this line as a matter of routine. Yes, I am free to decline shops that I have a moral problem with. That doesn't change the fact that the MSC's and their clients continue to offer them and mystery shoppers continue to do them. It is called "part of the business", and what are traditionally considered right and wrong are suspended in order to get the job done. On what authority does the hiring MSC direct the shopper to lie to the detriment of a competitor, and on what authority do the people who have personally attacked me declare that the MSC is not subject to the same rules of engagement as my company? Is it because a corporation is more entitled to blind honesty than an individual?

LisaSTL, No it was not a joke. The ends (completing a useful report for the benefit of everyone involved) may justify the means (using a flexible "shopper profile" to describe myself to the potential client)

It was cheeky, because I did not give a lengthy explanation of what a tricky decision this is, and I did not give a warning about the slippery moral slope it creates. I did not walk the poster through the risks and benefits of such a choice. If you change your profile recklessly and can't deliver, then you've just got a mess.

If you are going to advance in this business, you are going to lie. Rationalization does not eliminate the fact that you are being paid to make false statements that effect other real people. It is my hope that each individual would think critically and do what is ultimately in the best interest everyone involved.

Blind obedience to the corporation who tells you to lie to everyone else, even if it does harm. But it is immoral for you to lie to the corporation. Because your relationship is built on trust. What would you call this relationship if it was between your daughter and her boyfriend?

As a shopper, I have felt little respect and plenty of contempt from schedulers, editors, the back end of the MSC's and many of the clients who use mystery shoppers. I think this is because there is an endless wave of naive applicants looking for easy money, and another endless wave of new MSC's trying to play a little more fast and loose than the competition. Have you looked at the front end of the shopping companies? They promise armies of highly trained, highly skilled, and highly motivated professional evaluation specialists. Positioned all over the world, ready to do your job for $4 and a free meal.

You have precious little power. I don't think this is because some of us aren't afraid of critical thinking and are willing to question authority.

Dangerous talk. Ignore him. Ostracize him. He should be punished for his opinions. Is that really the answer?

It's not your opinions! It is the FACT that you persist in advising shoppers to lie on their MSC applications. What part of that do you not get? Stating that it is your opinion that you have done nothing wrong, is just icing on the cake. Your credibility as an advisor to other shoppers is just plain shot. No one needs to ostracize you.

"As a shopper, I have felt little respect and plenty of contempt from schedulers, editors, the back end of the MSC's and many of the clients who use mystery shoppers."

This may be part of the problem. With a list of 200 MSCs there is no denying some of them are going to be disrespectful and contemptuous. You are not factoring the many companies, schedulers, editors and clients who are appreciative, helpful, respectful and willing to pay what it takes for the quality they need.

That Michael C reminds me of someone else................

Okay, weighing back in. I didn't expect this thread to take on a life of its own.

I asked Support a question to clarify my position. I received a prompt, courteous, and extremely reasonable answer. The person who responded did not say 'no' and make me feel that I had been trying to get away with something by asking. And, the person who responded did not say 'yes' in a way that made me feel that I was really stupid for having even asked the question. The answer made it clear that the person responding understood why I'd asked. I was impressed by that. It was the farthest thing possible from a 'reading from the script' answer.

On the other hand, a post, early in this thread made me feel--I'm sure I was being oversensitive--that I was being told that I'd been really stupid to tell the truth when I put in an application for the company. I don't think that I was. Maybe it would have been foolish if my life depended on shopping every fast food place immediately, buy it doesn't.

Let Michael C shoot himself in the foot. Lots of schedulers, editors and MSC owners read the posts in this forum. Karma is a b*tch.

Ishmael, telling the truth is not stupid. Telling the truth is smart and it's also the right thing to do. Telling a lie on any application is simply unacceptable.

LisaSTL, you are right. I was focused on the negative experiences and discounting the positive ones when I wrote that paragraph. It was wrong for me to say there has been little on the positive side and there are plenty of good people just trying to grind out a living just like I am. I maintain that there is way too much on the negative side for me to give mystery shopping providers the ultimate authority to tell me what is right and what is wrong.

Live2Shop. Don't worry about me. The people you mention are looking for good reports, not boy scouts, and that is what I deliver. There will be no midnight meeting of the MS Illuminati to find me. I don't think putting people ahead of corporations is going to anger any real or imaginary God.

Mdavisnowell, I have lied on dozens of credit applications, frequently this includes a fictitious social security number alongside my real name. I lied to the TSA on my security clearance application. Why? The MSC told me to.

So, Micheal, let's talk honesty.. How many times have you needed to scratch your "rear-end" in public, and so, instead of digging for gold in plain view, you step behind a counter and do it?

Aren't you hiding the fact that your ass itches?

Okay, more about honesty....

My point: We are not crooks, pacing a car lot, dragging a salesmen into a two hour charade, so we can "steal" the car on a test drive.

We are "hired" or "contracted" to get information. The CLIENT asks us to be "in need" of carpet, sink, jewelry, cell phone, ect."

How would it sound if you went to a sunglass shop and the employee asked if you wanted a certain pair of sunglasses and you said, "No. Just looking." The salesperson is going to walk away and not assist you.

The client is NOT paying you to stand there and decline help. They are asking you to formalize a scenario by which you "receive" help.

If the car dealer or jewelry salesman is being "tested" by the client, it is a necessity because the client wants to know "how" Joe Customer is REALLY being treated...

I think y'all are missing Michael's point. I don't think he's saying we shouldn't lie as mystery shoppers, he just saying that it's hypocritical for an MSC to ask us to lie FOR them but not lie TO them.

On a related note (to the actual thread and not the much more interesting off topic discussion), today I got a call from MarketForce wanting me to do a grocery shop for them. I mentioned that I couldn't do this shop because my cousin's husband just got a part time job at this particular store. They didn't seem to care about that in the least bit.

Acting vs Lying...... that is a pretty hair splitting topic. We tell ourselves we are paid actors but in truth what comes out of our mouths, on assignment, most of the time is a lie. Thinking back, I lied 19 times today. I didn't leave my cell phone at home, I do know how to use an Android, I don't have an expired account with Koodo, I won't take the phone, I won't be back with my bill, I don't live at that address, I'm not going skiing so I don't need the gear, I don't want fries, .......... you get the picture. Have fun acting shoppers - it is what we are paid to do so don't feel guilty. Oh and I told the truth today too! hahaha

bgriffin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I *kinda* see Michael's point, not that I agree
> with him. I think honestly is always the best
> policy with MSCs. I do however, find it ironic
> that our relationships with MSCs rely heavily on
> honesty but the jobs we do for them rely heavily
> on lies. I mean really, how many times a day do
> you give a fake name or phone number? How often
> do you say you're looking to buy a $100,000
> Porsche when you're not? How often do you tell a
> cell phone company that you need phones for your
> wife and kids when you're single?

When I first started doing this, I kind of felt uncomfortable about getting paid to lie, lying while dealing with associates and then telling an honest account of what happened during my shop via my report. How I learned to live with this is I always thought I'd make a good actor - here's my shot at playing a role and if the service is average or better, probably no one is going to be hurt in this. And if the service is really lousy, I could be the customer dealing with the bad service instead of being the shopper. So I have learned to live with this bizarre two-sided coin - getting paid to lie well and then being honest about what I experienced during the course of my shop where I dropped all kinds of lies. Does this make sense to anybody? Maybe I'm just a frustrated wanna be Tom Hanks.....

Sorry but to me this seems like a disagreement where everyone is agreeing but not saying it the same way or hearing the same way.

I have been completely honest in every application.
I've also been honest in every facade I've put on.

I must have 30 registries set up. Names range from my own with a misspelling to Bob Dillon to B. Arthur and I'm a single male.
I have no ethical or moral issues with it.
I'm being paid to observe and report, I wouldn't be paid if I walked in and said, "my name is *******, and I'm here to observe and report your service".

I'm on my way to four shops where I'll be dishonest with every person I encounter, but that's not lying.

Lying is when there is an expectation of complete honesty and dishonesty exists.

In the case of what I'm about to do there is no relationship between me and the sales people, associates, crew members, etc.. that expects any form of honesty.

In the case of my relationship with the MSC that is paying me and that I'm working for there is a high degree of expectation of honesty.

So, yes, I'm honest with the MSC and will portray any part they're willing to pay me for.

Honestly.

Using SunnyDays example, it would be more accurate to say that I'm hiding the fact that I'm scratching my ass when I hide behind the counter. An accepted amount of nondisclosure for the benefit of all. But what if that is a food prep counter, and I now resume assembling your happy meal?

Now my dishonesty has caused harm.

That is the difference between the right kind of lie and the wrong kind of lie. Mystery shopping companies will tell you to tell lies that cause harm to other people. They will tell you to do things that are illegal. They will keep pay low while implying that you can duck the taxes if you want to. They will pay you less than minimum wage. They may not pay you at all. They will lie to you about all manner of who, what, and why if it gets the job done.

I am just saying that you should not follow these companies blindly. Mistreating someone because you were told to is no less wrong. Use your judgement about what jobs you take, what you do that may effect other people, and what you disclose to the people who hire you. If you want to hold up the shopper application as a sacred document, good for you. Just remember that it does not always work both ways.

Calling the shopper agreement sacred is a stretch. I call it a contract I signed in good faith. It takes effort to build trust with a company because experience has taught them to expect the worst. They're hiring from the available pool, and the available pool has some trash in it. I try to treat everyone fairly, whether its the person I'm shopping, the MSC, or the client.

Wow, hot topic! In some ways I have to agree with Michael, but I understand and agree with other opinions al well. For example, don't any of you who are taking the "loyalty to the client" side ever feel guilty about keeping, say, a car salesperson for an hour knowing you have (at least most of the time) no intention of buying a car? I understand that this is part of our job, but we are also taking away an hour of the salesperson's opportunity to earn a living--and the auto dealerships are shopped all the time. I feel guilty many times, but particularly on assignments in which there are bigger ticket items involved. In addition, I agree with Michael in that we are mislead all the time by the advertising tactics of some of our clients--that's only being realistic. Seriously, I don' think it would have been such a big deal to put "No" on the question regarding working for a fast food restaurant, particularly since the past employment was not with one of the big chain restaurants. I feel I am an honest person, but we all tell white lies sometimes. Just my opinion.

Happy Thanksgiving.