@OCyou2 wrote:

I don't really find anything that bgriffin said particularly harsh. I think the forum is at a crossroads that needs to be navigated carefully. We get closer and closer to a "Volition" situation if we aren't careful.........and uh, nobody is over there anymore, they are all here (for now).

OCyou2, you may have missed the post that others of us considered particularly harsh. The post appears to have been deleted earlier today. I found it extremely harsh.

While I have no problem with making suggestions to Jacob, and I have made a few, I find criticisms in open forum of the owner's management style to be inappropriate. Mystery Shop Forum Meta is an ideal area to make suggestions, and I have found Jacob very welcoming whenever I have PM'd him with a suggestion. Of course, it does take the courage to own the suggestion and make it directly.

@AustinMom wrote:

OCyou2, you may have missed the post that others of us considered particularly harsh.

Others? Has there been some super secret discussion of my post? You and flash are the only people I have seen who have NEGATIVELY commented on my now deleted post. Is that who you are referring to? I'm just curious.

@AustinMom wrote:

The post appears to have been deleted earlier today. I found it extremely harsh.

I would venture a guess that the post was not deleted for being harsh. I believe it was deleted because I publicly named the moderator of this board and explained how I came about the information. Perhaps this is not the case. Perhaps, as you say later in your post, the moderator should have the courage to own what they did and explain to us why the post was deleted. There was nothing harsh in my post. I reiterated my belief that a few people (you included, yes, I'm calling you out, let's see if you have the courage to own it if it's true) have banded together to silence the posts of people they don't like, based simply on how much they like them, and not at all on the merit of the post. That is 4 year old mentality. This is not the first time in this thread that I have made that statement. Wales made a statement that I should ignore the 4 year old behavior and a dozen people liked that post. So you have a dozen or so other people who have indirectly made the exact same statement. So was that harsh? If that is true are you also publicly reprimanding those other dozen people as well? Or is it just me? So tell me, since you seem to be big on owning things these days, what exactly I said that was harsh or untrue?

@AustinMom wrote:

While I have no problem with making suggestions to Jacob, and I have made a few, I find criticisms in open forum of the owner's management style to be inappropriate.

You don't criticize management at places you frequent when they do something that offends you???

@AustinMom wrote:

Mystery Shop Forum Meta is an ideal area to make suggestions, and I have found Jacob very welcoming whenever I have PM'd him with a suggestion.

I agree and I might join in a discussion in Meta on this. BTW, here is what you said about the thumb down button in the Meta thread about it:

@AustinMom wrote:

Well said. It means censorship with no accountability.

Do you still believe this? Will you join in the fight to take it away? Or have you been using it for the very reason you posted against it?? Own it one way or the other.

@AustinMom wrote:

Of course, it does take the courage to own the suggestion and make it directly.

The one thing you said that I agree with.

I have not always agreed with everything bgriffin has said in the past, but I think in this case he has a legitimate point. Certain people on this board can get away with things that others can't. It does not strike me as fair. Additionally, I don't understand why certain toxic people on this board are not reprimanded. The nature of how they attack people on the board is inappropriate and uncalled for. I have said this several times. I think if people were more respectful of each other and the rules applied to everyone, this would be a friendlier board. I agree with Steve this is a mutually beneficial relationship. This is just my two cents.

As pointed out earlier - this forum is a business which makes a revenue stream for Jacob. He benefits from providing this forum and generating traffic to it, and of course we - as members - benefit as well in that we have a place to interact, dialogue, and network. Not to detract from the hard work in any way that is put in by Jacob in creating and maintaining this board, but there is also hard work put into this board by the members who selflessly share and mentor each other (and are on both sides of this debate) and who are essential to Jacob's business model. Ultimately Jacob relies on a certain level of controversy in order to keep traffic to the site up and all of us coming back. If all we discussed was sunshine and unicorns many of us would not visit as often or post as often. There is only so many times once can post about how to remember names or "here is where I am shopping today". Think of us as a reality show - there is a certain amount of negative dynamic that must be allowed to exist to keep us interesting. Too tightly control it, then people get bored and go elsewhere. On the other hand, if you let it spin into a free for all then it is too chaotic for the majority and it ends up getting controlled by a handful of self-appointed leaders in a dictatorship style, some people get offended, and again ultimately traffic goes down.

I personally have lost interest in this board lately due to what seems like a dip towards the latter (a smaller group of people being showed favoritism as well as random controversy that seemed mean spirited instead of even clocked in constructive criticism)... and I felt that a correlation was the absence of a few people such as bgriffen (and a few others) who consistently called out the person(s) who was particularly harsh and mean.

@MickeyB, agree with everything you said except for the unicorn bit. We could use a good unicorn thread here!

No disrespect meant to Jacob....ever. I certainly would not want to tackle the task of hosting a shopper forum and I know has better things to do with his time than mediate catfights here. He has been kind, generous and respectful and all of the dealings I have had with him over the years. I think that's the basis of why this forum propers where Volition fails.

Ultimately, I think everyone could benefit from some perspective and be a little more understanding to others. This is not a brain surgery forum. No lives are on the line. We get paid small amounts to act as a customer for various products, then report on it and come here to discuss that. That's our common connection.

I personally have lost much of my interest in MSing because I just have not had the time to put into it lately. I haven't performed a shop since November and I'm starting to feel like my lifestyle is currently better in many ways. Now that I have burned all of my air miles and loyalty points that opinion will probably soon change, but for now it's been nice to step away from the investment in that, and the connection to this forum, when I don't have much to add to it. Perhaps for now I can be the spokesperson for taking a break from MSing, and the benefits of that...

Agree with MickeyB. Aren't we adult enough to not get in a snit just because someone writes something we disagree with.

@MickeyB,

I appreciate your comments, however I want to clarify some misconceptions.

I absolutely do NOT want controversy. I do not believe it benefits the community, encourages participation, or keeps people coming back.

I see the value of the forum as providing a resource for shoppers to help one another succeed. Controversy does not benefit this goal. It also causes me headaches, in terms of wasted time and a drop in traffic. Unfortunately, keeping a positive tone in the forum is a constant battle.

I do not want this to be a heavily moderated forum. I don't want to stifle our member's expression. I want to encourage the sharing of valuable information that benefits everyone.

Yes, I do make money from the forum. Probably not as much as you think, unfortunately. That's part of why I haven't been as present on the forum lately.

The best way to help with these issues is to send me a Private Message with a very clear description of what is happening.

I want this forum to be a positive experience for as many people as possible.

@MickeyB wrote:

As pointed out earlier - this forum is a business which makes a revenue stream for Jacob. He benefits from providing this forum and generating traffic to it, and of course we - as members - benefit as well in that we have a place to interact, dialogue, and network. Not to detract from the hard work in any way that is put in by Jacob in creating and maintaining this board, but there is also hard work put into this board by the members who selflessly share and mentor each other (and are on both sides of this debate) and who are essential to Jacob's business model. Ultimately Jacob relies on a certain level of controversy in order to keep traffic to the site up and all of us coming back. If all we discussed was sunshine and unicorns many of us would not visit as often or post as often. There is only so many times once can post about how to remember names or "here is where I am shopping today". Think of us as a reality show - there is a certain amount of negative dynamic that must be allowed to exist to keep us interesting. Too tightly control it, then people get bored and go elsewhere. On the other hand, if you let it spin into a free for all then it is too chaotic for the majority and it ends up getting controlled by a handful of self-appointed leaders in a dictatorship style, some people get offended, and again ultimately traffic goes down.

I personally have lost interest in this board lately due to what seems like a dip towards the latter (a smaller group of people being showed favoritism as well as random controversy that seemed mean spirited instead of even clocked in constructive criticism)... and I felt that a correlation was the absence of a few people such as bgriffen (and a few others) who consistently called out the person(s) who was particularly harsh and mean.

I agree that controversy was not the best word to have chosen. I think perhaps I should have framed it as a certain level of lively discussion and dialogue from varying points of view. My point was that the forum needs to have a certain level of dissenting viewpoints and discussion to make it interesting. I totally agree that controversy for the sake of being mean, carrying out a vendetta, etc. is counter-productive for the majority of individuals and the group as a whole.

I also want to take the time to thank you for removing the thumbs down feature. I never posted enough to even be granted the right to have the thumbs down button activate (and thus was not aware it even existed), but am glad that my ability to read other posters' comments can no longer be determined by other members who may have a personal gripe, that has nothing to do with the actual post, with the poster in question.