I need some help and feedback. I am thinking of emailing the VP of Ipsos about leaving the bidding process out of the new business model This is what I have. Please feel free to correct and add to it.

Dear Ms. Medina,
My name is BMT Tinman and I am a mystery shopper for IPSOS.
The reason I am emailing you is that I think your company is doing a disservice to the mystery shoppers that have been loyal to the MaritzCX Company.
You have left the best part of their company in the mud and that was their ability to accept route bids. It gave the shopper as well as your project managers the ability to get get a project done on time and within a budget dictated by you.
I see from googling you that you are based in France and I hope that you are aware of the travel distances of your shops in the western US.
I by the case just to do 16 shops in Grand Junction Colorado is taking 442 miles/711.33Kilometers and one-night lodging for (Shop Fees) when I have to bid $ 500 which covers milage and lodging cost plus shop fees.
Can you please revisit the tool that is good for IPSOS and its shoppers?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2021 05:38PM by bmttinman.

I agree with you 100%. My experience so far with bringing this to the attention of the schedulers is that they simply don't care. Maybe they will learn they are going to need to be more flexible after the first few cycles backfire on them. Again, I agree with you. That said, I have little faith that it will do any good.

@thunderdeacon wrote:

I agree with you 100%. My experience so far with bringing this to the attention of the schedulers is that they simply don't care. Maybe they will learn they are going to need to be more flexible after the first few cycles backfire on them. Again, I agree with you. That said, I have little faith that it will do any good.

Anything that should be added?

@bmttinman wrote:

I see from googling you that you are based in France and I hope that you are aware of the travel distances of your shops in the western US.

We are working for the US division. The France element does not apply to the decisions being made at the scheduler/shopper level.

@KA047 wrote:

@bmttinman wrote:

I see from googling you that you are based in France and I hope that you are aware of the travel distances of your shops in the western US.

We are working for the US division. The France element does not apply to the decisions being made at the scheduler/shopper level.

@bmttinman wrote:

@KA047 wrote:

@bmttinman wrote:

I see from googling you that you are based in France and I hope that you are aware of the travel distances of your shops in the western US.

We are working for the US division. The France element does not apply to the decisions being made at the scheduler/shopper level.

@KA047 Ok then who do I need to contact? I realize that IPSOS is out to make money but they took something that worked and threw it out. I have contacted the IPSOS schedulers listed and they can't or won't do a route. KSS has just said, "We don't do routes anymore. If you want a route contact IPSOS".
Everyone that has done routes for MaritzCX, as well as the project managers, knew that this was a necessity to get shops done. I put in for a route of one hundred gas shops that could be done in three weeks covering 4 states with the same pricing as previously paid and was told thru the scheduler that PM said the price was too high and would not even counter offer.

I do not believe there is anything we, as shoppers, can do to convince Ipsos to to change a practice.... If Ipsos is not able to fulfill their contractual obligations with their clients, they will either be forced to make a change or will lose clients. However, it could very well be that Ipsos believes that they don't need to make such a change. After all, when they acquired MartizCX's mystery shopping division, they added all of MaritzCX's shoppers to their (already quite expansive) shopper roles. They might very well believe that they have shoppers in some of the remote areas with locations for which MartizCX had to pay an arm-and-a-leg to get them done..... It is also very possible that Ipsos renegotiated some of those contracts and no longer has to serve all those locations - at least not as frequently.... We just don't know.

I wouldn't spend time writing letters. Instead, watch for patterns. See if you can piece together Ipsos' contractual obligations and see if some of these more remote locations are being picked-up as deadlines approach. Then, make an offer that meets your needs for those shops. It might be way more expensive for Ipsos than what they are currently rejecting... If they start to feel like they can't get shops filled that they are contractually required to complete, they just might pay you. Take advantage of it. Then, once you have scored, make your route off the following month/quarter/whatever.

They have some visits in my area that cannot be reached from anywhere without paying upwards of $50 to a ferry (gas stations on islands with naught but expensive vacation homes). They have others in a town in Washington state that can only be reached by crossing the U.S.-Canada border twice each way... Those shops rarely got filled for Maritz without a premium. As I get back into shopping, I'll be watching those to see if Ipsos has a shopper that will pick them up for less - or if I'll be able to pick up those periodic scores.

@bmttinman I admire your effort, but I don't think it will change anything. I currently schedule a project, and I was told if a shopper can pick up 5+ shops, we can add a $3 bonus to each of them. I can say with about 98% certainty that you are not going to get mileage and lodging fees unless it is the final week of a project and the client says that they want 100% done. Sometimes the client is okay with less than 100% completion, sometimes not.

Thinking as a businesswoman, why would I want to pay someone for 500 miles and lodging when there is a chance I could pay someone a $5 bonus to do the same shop? I recognize what you are saying, that many of the western CO locations are much harder to fill than, let's say, Denver shops. But I scheduled some pretty challenging locations in the past (and now). There was one shop I had for several years. For the first 18-24 months we had to pay a shopper $125-$150 to complete a really easy shop in Dickinson, North Dakota. The somehow, through random luck or recruiting efforts, I found a shopper who lived right there, and I was able to get it scheduled at $12.

Trust me, if as I scheduler I could just set the rates I want to pay shoppers, my job would be a lot easier. But that's not going to happen. Please feel free to send the email, but I can pretty much guarantee it won't change things to the way you had them.

@krattner I as a former mechanical contractor I know exactly what you are saying. Susan at Alto 360 did exactly that in the reservation in AZ. She tried Facebook, Twitter, and my recommendation of the Navajo times which is the newspaper of the Nation. I got shot out of the route but I have also seen they are no longer doing shops on the Res and this is about to change for they have a contract for the Running gas shops and several are now back on the Res. However, most MSC has that mentality of there will be someone cheaper. But hopefully, people here on this site are learning they have to cover their overhead and make a profit just like any company. My question to you is, do you help the shopper with establishing routes or except their routes or do you just do per shop only?

@MFJohnston I believe that management is not aware of the problems they have in the field. MaritzCX had a system that worked but not very well for the sold the Mystery Shop division to IPSOS. They have since closed their offices and I assume that did not bring much of the staff to IPSOS. I to see the patterns and this is why for the last several years I have tried, in some cases have gotten routes but have also did not Alto 360 comes to mine.

@bmttinman I try to help shoppers create a route as much as possible. I will try to combine shops from different clients, or even different companies if I am scheduling for more than one. For example, I was recently scheduling home improvement shops with a HUGE bonus, and I also had a bank shop in the same area that was at regular pay, so I asked the shopper doing the home improvement shop if they wanted that one as well.

By the way, I also perform the occasional mystery shop, although it has decreased significantly since having kids, so I totally get how you feel. There are times a client will ask the schedulers if they feel the pay rate is fair, and I always think about what pay I would need in order to pick up that shop. For example, I schedule bank phone shops. They pay between $35-$45, and take maybe 15 minutes top if there are no complications. I would definitely pick those up if I was eligible. But then I have seen $7 pay for gas shops. Unless I planned to go there anyway, I probably would not apply for that shop unless I was doing it as a favor to another scheduler.

Unfortunately, as a scheduler, my job is to try to keep the client happy, or else I don't have a job.

MF- I agree with you. I have recently negotiated with IPSOS for a higher rate on shops that I put into a route. The fee per location was increased enough to allow me to travel, stay in motels, and get the complete route done. I think that IPSOS was in a bind for getting those locations completed, and I had to wait about 10 days from the start of the fee negotiation until approval. I gave them reasoning for the pricing I suggested, and they responded professionally. They are certainly tough negotiators and expect bulletproof/complete shops, espcially with increased fees. All in all, I think it was a fair deal.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2021 11:59AM by salisburync.

I, as do other shoppers, miss the Maritz willingness to pay when work needed completed. Having had a slight experience with Ipsos in 2011, I suspected what occurred when the buy-out was completed. For me, I must have communication, which easily existed with Mariitz, but is woefully absent with Ipsos. In addition, the pay:work ratio must be acceptable, also missing with Ipsos. My most profitable day, week and month in this business were compliments of Maritz. As the soap opera title so aptly states, "As The World Turns," it is what it is!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2021 03:15PM by shopperbob.

Bmtt, may I respectfully disagree with your plan?

For years and years, I was able to use one or two well-bonused Maritz shops as anchors for extremely profitable routes. I really enjoyed the people, the website was easy to use, and schedulers were knowledgeable, flexible, communicative, and professional.

While all that was great for US, evidently it wasn't so great for Maritz, or they'd still be in the mystery shopping business.

IPSOS is free to run the programs however they like. Perhaps they want it to be more profitable than it was for Maritz. Perhaps if it had been more profitable for Maritz, Maritz would still be doing it.

Boy, do I utterly miss Maritz! Yes, I do. Do I understand what you mean? Yes, I do. Do I feel just the same way as you do? Oh, yes.

However, we are self-employed. We are not employees.

It's not IPSOS' job to worry about keeping shoppers happy (do you worry if your plumber, electrician, or auto mechanic is happy, as long as the work is done properly? NO. ) It's their job to make their mystery shopping USA faction PROFITABLE.

You are certainly free to express yourself to IPSOS. If I had a contact or other info for you, I'd provide it. But as for me, I would not do that.

However, if I did contact them, I would leave out all the stuff about doing a disservice to shoppers. I would be professional and to the point. Perhaps I would mention that route shopping/bidding enabled the company to get many shops completed at a cost they manage -- that is your salient point, after all, and a very good point, too.

@ceasesmith When I was in business, YES I worried about my employees. Yes, I made sure that they had the right tools. I made sure that Vehicles, gas, and in some cases Hotel. It does not make sense to have lots of work if you can't get the people to do the work. Read the news and you will see that there is a shortage of skilled labor and construction labor.
I am a 1099 contractor only because the MSC does not want to pay minimum wage, pay for workers comp, Liability insurance, or anything that will take away from their bottom line.
@krattner is being paid hopefully hourly, salary, and not my commission of how many jobs that she gets done each month.
Go listen to this three-part program on labor [www.marketplace.org] and this will open your eyes to what I am trying to do.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2021 03:52PM by bmttinman.

IF the day ever arrives when MSCs begin using employees, it definitely will never be me. I departed my last employer relationship in Oct. of 1963 and have refused on several occasions to enter another such position.

@bmttinman unfortunately 95 percent of schedulers (myself included) are 1099 contractors just like you. We get paid per completed shop. So if you don’t get paid, we don’t get paid. So for us, it’s in our best interest to get the shop scheduled and completed! Occasionally a client will offer a bonus for 100% completion or if all shops are completed by a certain date. So when that happens of course we want to get as much as that done as possible. Believe me, getting the shop done is in everyone’s best interest. If I can give bonus money, I will certainly try to give it. But like we’ve all said, most of the time it’s not a scheduler’s call.

That is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. Of course, a good employer worries about the employees.

We are NOT employees.

@bmttinman wrote:

@ceasesmith When I was in business, YES I worried about my employees. Yes, I made sure that they had the right tools. I made sure that Vehicles, gas, and in some cases Hotel. It does not make sense to have lots of work if you can't get the people to do the work. Read the news and you will see that there is a shortage of skilled labor and construction labor.
I am a 1099 contractor only because the MSC does not want to pay minimum wage, pay for workers comp, Liability insurance, or anything that will take away from their bottom line.
@krattner is being paid hopefully hourly, salary, and not my commission of how many jobs that she gets done each month.
Go listen to this three-part program on labor [www.marketplace.org] and this will open your eyes to what I am trying to do.

There is a lot of good information here. Kate and other schedulers taking the time to be so detailed in their responses is also extremely valuable. I think it is very clear that former Maritz shoppers have had their struggles adjusting to ipsos. I've had significant struggles with some clients, but I have found great personal success with other clients because I have been able to build relationships with schedulers. My experience with ipsos is that if you want to make money you have to be prepared to work 15 plus hour days for the last 7 to 10 days of each month and quarter. because you're not going to get any significant bonuses before that. And sometimes there are still hundreds of locations left. And a lot of times they'll extend the due date. You just have to be patient and have the self-discipline to not bite on base pay. I've actually considered getting a regular job that is part-time somewhere that I could work the first couple weeks of every month and then mystery Shop the last two weeks of every month. But finding an employer that can do that is not trivial. Thanks for everyone's input.

Absolutely agree. I work my you-know-what off the last 10 days in the month, and make what others here (in my small rural town) might earn all month in full-time minimum wage jobs. Actually, I make more (not in 2020; that was devastating).

@bmttinman wrote:

@ceasesmith When I was in business, YES I worried about my employees. Yes, I made sure that they had the right tools. I made sure that Vehicles, gas, and in some cases Hotel. It does not make sense to have lots of work if you can't get the people to do the work. Read the news and you will see that there is a shortage of skilled labor and construction labor.

Mystery shopping is not skilled labor. Different shops require different skill levels, but calling taking photos of gas pumps, "Skilled labor," is laughable. Is it sometimes difficult? Sure. Having the ability to read directions and follow instructions is hardly skilled labor.

@bmttinman wrote:

I am a 1099 contractor only because the MSC does not want to pay minimum wage, pay for workers comp, Liability insurance, or anything that will take away from their bottom line.

100% correct

@bmttinman wrote:

@krattner is being paid hopefully hourly, salary, and not my commission of how many jobs that she gets done each month.

She already answered, but very few schedulers are hourly. I am not sure, but I think that some of the ones that live in and schedule in NV might be? Just like editing, it is a job paid per shop scheduled/edited or by projects in most cases. Some of the MSCs used to have in-house schedulers, (ACL, Shoppers Critique, and Trendsource come to mind), but I do not think that is the case now. I have been a shopper for 22 years now. Things have changed.

To best honest, in regards to scheduling, I prefer being an independent contractor. One of the companies I scheduled with offered me a full-time position, but wanted me to sign a non-complete clause, stating that I couldn't schedule with other companies. I make way more scheduling for multiple companies than I would have with one salary, even if it included benefits. Plus this way I have my eggs in multiple baskets, in case a company is bought out or loses a lot of clients.

@bmttinman wrote:

I put in for a route of one hundred gas shops that could be done in three weeks covering 4 states with the same pricing as previously paid and was told thru the scheduler that PM said the price was too high and would not even counter offer.

I had an unpleasant surprise this morning...all of the shops that I took last quarter, with a bonus, were reassigned to me for this month...at the base price. They are a route, and at the base price they don’t pay enough...

Maybe it's just me, but expecting an MSC to cover expenses which are tax-deductible seems unrealistic.

I never factor driving stats into my decision to take on a project.

I'm all about racking up as many miles as possible in order to offset as much IC income as possible.

During the early days of COVID I took a $5 job requiring an 80-mile roundtrip just to have a reason to get out of the crib for awhile.

@CoolMusic wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but expecting an MSC to cover expenses which are tax-deductible seems unrealistic.

I never factor driving stats into my decision to take on a project.

I'm all about racking up as many miles as possible in order to offset as much IC income as possible.

During the early days of COVID I took a $5 job requiring an 80-mile roundtrip just to have a reason to get out of the crib for awhile.

Hopefully it's just you.

If you were working for any company, and you had to travel you would scream to have room, food, & airfare. In the construction industry we call this subsistence pay. Now if you work at McDonald's you would never expect this, sure you need tax deductions has not to pay out what you don't have in taxes. But even Warren Buffett is that the make a profit why not you?

@CoolMusic wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but expecting an MSC to cover expenses which are tax-deductible seems unrealistic.

I never factor driving stats into my decision to take on a project.

I'm all about racking up as many miles as possible in order to offset as much IC income as possible.

During the early days of COVID I took a $5 job requiring an 80-mile roundtrip just to have a reason to get out of the crib for awhile.

@CoolMusic wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but expecting an MSC to cover expenses which are tax-deductible seems unrealistic.

I never factor driving stats into my decision to take on a project.

I'm all about racking up as many miles as possible in order to offset as much IC income as possible.

During the early days of COVID I took a $5 job requiring an 80-mile roundtrip just to have a reason to get out of the crib for awhile.

I manage my tax-deductible mileage just fine, but we route shop - that is, 10-12 stations a day, on a route that will run 200-250 miles round trip. So, 10 shops at 12.50, is 125.00. 250 miles, at 57.5 cents a mile...143.75. I would be LOSING money, in realtime. Yes, I can deduct that mileage. 90% of our mileage every year is business mileage.
Taking a route that is a money-losing proposition... doesn’t make any sense. At $20 per shop, I make a small profit, and that’s a minimum for me.

I am going to assume that the way you think this is one way milage. So I see 500 miles. Let us round up to $. 60.that is $ 300. You have wear on the tires, oil change, maybe a room. Let say you do 50 routes like this a year, that's $1500 that you have in tax benefits. You made $150 on the route x 50 = $7500. You changed the oil every 6000 miles at $ 75 a pop which is not tax deductible. You bought a set of tires for $1500. You have liability insurance for $750 a year. Now run the numbers and you made $5000. Divide that by $7.50 round up 667 hours you got paid for. Figure you spend 30 minutes per shop with report time that is 6 hrs x 50 equals 300 hours.plus drive time. It seems that I could make more at McDonald's working part-time in Moab UT which is paying $ 15 per hour and make more than you. I too do routes (this year is being the hardest) of 30 to 65 shops covering 4 states with 5 to 7 nights on the road and about 1500 miles per route and about 24 in a year. With my SS and my mystery shopping I made a living wage and just filed 2020 taxes and I did a Donald Trump in paying.

@Mousegal wrote:

@CoolMusic wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but expecting an MSC to cover expenses which are tax-deductible seems unrealistic.

I never factor driving stats into my decision to take on a project.

I'm all about racking up as many miles as possible in order to offset as much IC income as possible.

During the early days of COVID I took a $5 job requiring an 80-mile roundtrip just to have a reason to get out of the crib for awhile.

I manage my tax-deductible mileage just fine, but we route shop - that is, 10-12 stations a day, on a route that will run 200-250 miles round trip. So, 10 shops at 12.50, is 125.00. 250 miles, at 57.5 cents a mile...143.75. I would be LOSING money, in realtime. Yes, I can deduct that mileage. 90% of our mileage every year is business mileage.
Taking a route that is a money-losing proposition... doesn’t make any sense. At $20 per shop, I make a small profit, and that’s a minimum for me.

@bmttinman wrote:

I am going to assume that the way you think this is one way milage. So I see 500 miles. Let us round up to $. 60.that is $ 300. You have wear on the tires, oil change, maybe a room. Let say you do 50 routes like this a year, that's $1500 that you have in tax benefits. You made $150 on the route x 50 = $7500. You changed the oil every 6000 miles at $ 75 a pop which is not tax deductible. You bought a set of tires for $1500. You have liability insurance for $750 a year. Now run the numbers and you made $5000. Divide that by $7.50 round up 667 hours you got paid for. Figure you spend 30 minutes per shop with report time that is 6 hrs x 50 equals 300 hours.plus drive time. It seems that I could make more at McDonald's working part-time in Moab UT which is paying $ 15 per hour and make more than you. I too do routes (this year is being the hardest) of 30 to 65 shops covering 4 states with 5 to 7 nights on the road and about 1500 miles per route and about 24 in a year. With my SS and my mystery shopping I made a living wage and just filed 2020 taxes and I did a Donald Trump in paying.

@Mousegal wrote:

@CoolMusic wrote:

1. No, I did mean 200-250 round trip. This is a single day route, 10 stations, all reports in after my husband gets home that night. (Mystery shopping is his primary job, along with his SS. I have a full-time job)
2. We made 17,000 from mystery shopping alone last year. While he *might* could make that working at McDonald’s, lol, he isn’t going to.
3. We write off all of our expenses, both travel, and all other business expenses - home office, etc. I’ve had this business for more than 10 years, so I have the tax issues covered. We get a refund, since I have the max held out of my check at my job. (Don’t @ me with “it’s a free loan to the gov’t”...our MS income is variable, and I don’t EVER want to end up paying in April. Whatever we make, it’s covered)
4. Liability at $750 a year? Hardly. Full coverage at $3000 a year.
5. I still don’t think it makes sense to take an 80 mile round trip shop for $5. I understand your point about balancing out the mileage over the year. I just don’t agree.

$1500 for a set of tires? Don't use an 18-wheeler for shops.

Goodyear all weather to fit 2009 Nissan Rouge, $1200 in 2014 $ 1400 in 2017. This vehicle sold with 250,00 miles in 2018, 2002 Chevy pickup Three set since 2013 400,000 miles on the truck last set purchased 2011 Buick Enclave. Was $1400. I have the milage for the year on All vehicles and Discount tire recipes. One thing I have learned it is easy to tell the truth. It is harder to lie. Last year in the Coronavirus Pandemic I was shut down just like you and I still did 52,000 miles doing most of my shops in AZ, CO, & NM. UT was a hot spot most of the year and stay south of I 70 @boridi

@boridi wrote:

$1500 for a set of tires? Don't use an 18-wheeler for shops.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2021 04:28AM by bmttinman.