Funny that they send you emails asking for reasonable offers to do a shop. You then send them the amount of time and the mileage and the amount of the mileage at 63 cents a mile and they laugh at you saying they would never go that high. A year ago the project managers would go ahead and give you the okay but now the independent schedulers will not send it to them. My question is to this form what can independent schedulers do besides piss you off on a daily basis? In the last year I have made lesson one quarter of the amount of shops that I did for the last 3 years all because the independent schedulers sorry we can't pay that amount

Definitely not true across the board. I regularly get bonuses from indy schedulers. Also, better result may be had by just saying, for instance," I can do that on x-date for $y bonus." Leave out all of your calculations.

They have been given the directive to agressively lower shop pay. Due dates are not particularly important anymore. The big money doesn't come until locations get grossly past due. Some of the schedulers are handling this professionally with a simple yes or no. Some schedulers are not handling it professionally.

"We will never pay that much" has been a lie many times in my experience.

What is your source for this "directive," please?

I can't name names unfortunately; I don't want to get anyone in trouble.

Even independent a verified source, there is tremendous overall evidence of it taking place. There has also been significant turnover in project management. The new goal is to aggressively recruit new shoppers and aggressively attempt to lower shop pay with less regard for due dates. The in-person events and nda-busting logo'ed safety vests are part of their attempt to recruit. They will push the clients as far as they are willing to tolerate in their attempts to continue to low-ball and say no. They will pay eventually, but they will do it kicking and screaming after the shops are grossly overdue.

They would love to no longer have to rely on seasoned, experienced, effective, and valuable shoppers that expect fair pay. Those of us here in this forum are the bane of their existence They would rather find new suckers constantly and never have to deal with professionals ever again. They clearly think the average shopper is only slightly more intelligent than a tree shrew at this point.

Okay, it looks like you are referring to a particular, small, set of MSCs and particular types of shops. I do not do those types of shops, at least not for the clients who are doing that.

Indy schedulers have recently provided very nice bonuses for financial industry shops, some convenience/fuel shops, and even oil change shops.

In addition, the largest MSC covering the parking industry nationally, using its own manager/schedulers, has recently renegotiated some of its contracts and is passing the results along to its shoppers in HIGHER fees and simplified reports.

You are correct. I am talking about one specific MSC who has a monopoly on national gas brand evaluations, and they use independent schedulers.

They have been so bad that I automatically assumed that was the company/schedulers you were talking about in your original post.

That is great news for some of the other projects! I agree that there is still money to be made in financial industry evaluations.

I need to get into parking I think.

@walesmaven wrote:

Okay, it looks like you are referring to a particular, small, set of MSCs and particular types of shops. I do not do those types of shops, at least not for the clients who are doing that.

Indy schedulers have recently provided very nice bonuses for financial industry shops, some convenience/fuel shops, and even oil change shops.

In addition, the largest MSC covering the parking industry nationally, using its own manager/schedulers, has recently renegotiated some of its contracts and is passing the results along to its shoppers in HIGHER fees and simplified reports.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2022 10:31PM by thunderdeacon.

I received the "reasonable offer" letter and responded with my offer. I added that REASONABLE was, in this case, an adjective employed to modify the noun OFFER . As such, it was relative to the condition of the mind of the user, me. My offer was rejected, as are the majority of my fee requests. I am fortunate in that it is not necessary for me to toil for a pittance and it certainly is not my desire.

Any time I see a request for a "reasonable" offer, I don't bother doing the mental gymnastics of coming up with a number. That is usually just code for slightly above the current fee.

If I'm guessing the scheduler, it's a female with the first letter of first name with "K." She has been a pretty solid scheduler. I don't do the Lowe's, but she has helped with other things. I don't think she's shady, but I'm not going to guarantee that the company does not pull something funny and cancel shops to save $.

There are laughable routes where I live and very small bonuses so I am not the shopper who gets a chance to make a "reasonable" offer but to me Reasonable is the key word. Evidently what is reasonable to you is not reasonable to your scheduler. At least not on the day you made the offer. I like the advice of Walesmaven to just give them a figure. If they see you asking for .63 or whatever a mile on their end baked into the fee they are probably thinking you are also going to deduct that same mileage fee again on your schedule C and also thinking if you are doing a small number of jobs on your route you may be getting extra fees for the same driving time and costs from another company. Negotiating what works for both sides is a key. If they absolutely need the job done and there is no one around with a lower fee or who lives closer then your fee will become more reasonable to them.

My lastest bid
16 shops @ $ 14 = $224 1,069.7 mi @ $.67 per mi = $716.70 + $940
IPSOS answer
I received this route request from IPSOS Field Coordinator I appreciate the offer but no thank you. Senior Field Manager
Can someone tell me why this is not a good bid on a route?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2022 02:15AM by bmttinman.

@bmttinman wrote:

My lastest bid
16 shops @ $ 14 = $224 1,069.7 mi @ $.67 per mi = $716.70 + $940
IPSOS answer
I received this route request from IPSOS Field Coordinator I appreciate the offer but no thank you. Senior Field Manager
Can someone tell me why this is not a good bid on a route?

I assume you mean $224+$716=$940, or $59 per shop

I don't know the project, but none in my area go for that much right now. There just are not any hard deadlines coming up that I am aware except for the new client, and even that is questionable. Even the monthlies are scheduling to the 4th of next month, and there are still two days left in this month.

But yes that would be a fair offer to both sides if they really needed them done.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2022 02:31AM by mystery2me.

If you are asking whether you submitted a reasonable bid, I am inclined to say that if anything it is low. This is my calculation:
1,070 miles @ $0.625 (the IRS mileage rate) = $668.75
Time spent driving = 1070 miles / 60 mph (use your own speed here) = 17.84 hours
17.84 hours @ $20 per hour (use your own desired hourly pay instead) = $537
You will also have to pay for meals and if this is a route where you have to pay for 1 or 2 nights in a hotel, that has to be factored in as well.

Time spent preparing for, performing, and reporting shop is presumably included in the $14 per shop = $224
$224 + $537 + $668.75 = $1429.75

"Can someone tell me why this is not a good bid on a route?" - Easy - because they don't want to pay even $940

@bmttinman wrote:

My lastest bid
16 shops @ $ 14 = $224 1,069.7 mi @ $.67 per mi = $716.70 + $940
IPSOS answer
I received this route request from IPSOS Field Coordinator I appreciate the offer but no thank you. Senior Field Manager
Can someone tell me why this is not a good bid on a route?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2022 02:38AM by myst4au.

Because that would be 100 per shop. Would you really put that many miles on your vehicle anyway?

That same MSC that rejected the $940 offer...They asked me to do a bonused shop that was 5.5 hours away from me.The shop normally pays $90, and they only added a bonus of $35. In the past, the bonus was at least $150, to start, plus travel expenses that were good. I told them my gas would cost close to $90, not counting my drive time. I would not need a hotel. I was going to come right back, as I had others they needed done that were closer to home. The shop had to be done right away, as in leave tomorrow morning. My mistake about not getting the confirmation on the gas portion was huge and not my usual trend, at all. But, because they had always in the past, came through for me money-wise, and in turn they have always been able to count on me, I trusted it would work out. (Still shaking my head to this day). What a fool I was. They gave me $25 for gas. That is right, $25. I drove 11 hours round trip in one day to complete the shop. The shop took me just over 2 hours. I only stopped for coffee and to get gas after the shop before I got back on the road. I had a lunch packed. So, I learned a hard lesson and the thing that really makes it worse is that I knew better than to give them the benefit of the doubt. I had already seen the messages about "reasonable offers" and the other one that was threatening. Did you see it? Here is the exact wording: "I am willing to review any and all bonus requests that are reasonable and fair from those of you who are willing to travel. Egregious requests will not be entertained and will likely damage the partnership moving forward." What a statement! So, now I am convinced like some of you have mentioned, the scene has really changed. They do not appreciate seasoned, ethical and reliable auditors. I believe they do want to get rid of us and re-condition new auditors into their mold of cheap labor. And yes, like some of you have also stated, they think we are uneducated and desperate. They MSC's have important contracts with their clients. Those contracts get renewed because good auditor's/shopper's are part of the equation. We provide the data they need to keep the MSC and the client partnered. Why weaken the link?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2022 04:14AM by purpleicee.

People disagree on what is a reasonable offer. I don't get offended when a schedule says "no." I do get offended when a scheduler is unprofessional/rude in their reply. LOL is rarely a professional response.

I do appreciate it when a scheduler acknowledges that my offer is reasonable based on the distance I would have to travel for a shop but explains that they simply cannot afford to accept my offer. If they don't have the budget, they don't have the budget. They need to look for local shoppers or shoppers who are willing to work for less.

I won't take a shop I've done that paid me $100 in the past because they pulled it last time I made a route around it. 3 hours round trip I thought $100 was reasonable until they pulled it at the last minute.

Now I don't care what the bonus offered is, I won't do their gas station shops.

It also hurt the big box home improvement scheduler because she offered me two nicely bonused shops and I declined. I told her it was because of them pulling the gas shop on me. She said she's never pulled a shop, but how can I now trust the MSC? As in their words, they "will likely damage the partnership moving forward."

So, there's an army of fresh, naive shoppers standing by to come aboard and work for peanuts? They must be reading different business news channels than I am.

""I am willing to review any and all bonus requests that are reasonable and fair from those of you who are willing to travel. Egregious requests will not be entertained and will likely damage the partnership moving forward." What a statement!

I know 100% that IPSOS reads these forums. And we all know which scheduler we are talking about here. If this scheduler continues to be employed by IPSOS, it means that they 100% approve and do not care that this scheduler is threatening shoppers. There was a clear threat that asking for too much money was going to get a shopper blacklisted and not be able to work for them anymore. There was a ton of evidence to show that Ipsos doesn't care about shoppers, professionalism, or paying a fair wage. However, if anyone wasn't convinced, here is the smoking gun.

Threats to one's employment! Ask for too much money, and you can't work for us anymore! My employer sanctions and approves of my behavior!. I bet you feel really valuable now, stupid shopper!

So let's say they accepted your route offer of $940. Then the day before you were to start your route they cancelled half of the locations and told you they were only going to pay you $470. The distance driven is the same as the cancelled shops were sprinkled throughout the route, but not the furthest out.

Would you cancel the remaining shops? Would you do the route at half of what you expected to be paid?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

@wrosie wrote:

So let's say they accepted your route offer of $940. Then the day before you were to start your route they cancelled half of the locations and told you they were only going to pay you $470. The distance driven is the same as the cancelled shops were sprinkled throughout the route, but not the furthest out.

Would you cancel the remaining shops? Would you do the route at half of what you expected to be paid?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Depends on how badly I needed the money and if could do half the route in less time etc. Also depends on how badly I want to work for them in the future.

Again as a non route person it is easier for me to see both sides of this "negotiation." It is not a negotiation when the shopper does not negotiate. If the schedulers have a forum similar to this one I can bet they are discussing the same sort of issues with a different slant as it is from their point of view, not yours. I am not a scheduler but I do not necessarily see your bid as "Egregious". I do not think you can jump to the conclusion that the msc saw your bid that way. It may be they just do not feel the need to have the job done for that much money.Perhaps it is not as important to them to spend over $900 to get those jobs done as it is for you to earn $900 to get those jobs done.
I can understand your frustration not being able to earn as much as you used to. Times they are a changin and we have to change with them.
If the msc even entertained travel time as well as miles we here in the big cities might even be able to earn minimum wage. But I am constantly sent emails about jobs that will take me 2 hours of travel time but are in "my neighborhood" at the base pay which is usually around $10. Most are 450 miles from here. No extra money is offered on any of these but at the end of the month I can get an extra $2 . I would not even begin to make a bid on any of these as I find them egregious offers on my end.
At the end of the day we are independent contractors. We can offer what ever we want. They can offer what ever they want. Neither side needs to accept if it does not work out financially for them.
I guess I am being suspicious but I would like to know how some route shoppers handle travel bonuses that are in the form of a fee rather than in the form of reimbursement for gas, hotel, mileage or whatever on the 1099. When you fill in your schedule C for these shops do you deduct the expenses for mileage and hotels? I know everyone is different but I am just curious. Would those of you who do take these expenses off your schedule C accept the job if it was in the form of a reimbursement on your 1099?

Although rosie was not directing the question toward me, in that I do not need money and any MSC is welcome to cancel our agreement, I would decline. If, though, I had departed to begin the work AND was phoned, they would have two options: Pay or terminate me. In 19+ yrs., I have been both the terminated and terminator; neither position has had the slightest effect upon my life.

Very simple. On my Schedule C, there are basically two categories, revenue, and expenses. I don't care what the MSC calls it, if they send me money, it is revenue. If I pay out money (for a purchase, for driving at the IRS mileage rate, for a hotel, etc.), it is an expense. It is as simple as that. Of course, I have to have documentation, and mileage is documented differently than a purchase with a receipt, but it all comes down to being either revenue or expense.

@sandyf wrote:

I guess I am being suspicious but I would like to know how some route shoppers handle travel bonuses that are in the form of a fee rather than in the form of reimbursement for gas, hotel, mileage or whatever on the 1099. When you fill in your schedule C for these shops do you deduct the expenses for mileage and hotels? I know everyone is different but I am just curious. Would those of you who do take these expenses off your schedule C accept the job if it was in the form of a reimbursement on your 1099?

So I am suggesting that it is better for the shopper for ask for the extra money they need in the form of "this is how much I need to get the job done" without detailing auto and hotel expenses. If you receive a higher fee you can still then legally deduct your auto and hotel expenses.(I think?) If you get a reimbursement for these expenses you cannot legally deduct them on a schedule C. Being able to deduct the $668 in expenses as in the example in this thread would be more beneficial financially to the shopper. Perhaps msc's never list them as reimbursable expenses. If I ever move out of the big city I guess I will find out.

@myst4au wrote:

Very simple. On my Schedule C, there are basically two categories, revenue, and expenses. I don't care what the MSC calls it, if they send me money, it is revenue. If I pay out money (for a purchase, for driving at the IRS mileage rate, for a hotel, etc.), it is an expense. It is as simple as that. Of course, I have to have documentation, and mileage is documented differently than a purchase with a receipt, but it all comes down to being either revenue or expense.

@sandyf wrote:

I guess I am being suspicious but I would like to know how some route shoppers handle travel bonuses that are in the form of a fee rather than in the form of reimbursement for gas, hotel, mileage or whatever on the 1099. When you fill in your schedule C for these shops do you deduct the expenses for mileage and hotels? I know everyone is different but I am just curious. Would those of you who do take these expenses off your schedule C accept the job if it was in the form of a reimbursement on your 1099?

@sandyf,

The big MSC doesn't negotiate on the gas station shops. Hell, they don't even read their e-mails. I offered an amount in an e-mail and the next day got a generic blast e-mail offering a higher amount. So the MSC was basically negotiating with themselves. I took the shop at the higher amount, planned a route around it and then it was cancelled the day before I was to do it.

@shopperbob,

I wasn't called, I was e-mailed that it was no longer necessary to do the shop since it had been removed from my queue the day before. Others have stated they were actually performing the shops when they were removed. A phone call would have been nice.

@sandyf,

Negotiation is a two way street as you said. I have negotiated with the company employed schedulers at Alta360 both over the phone and via e-mail. They negotiated a shop payment lower than what I requested for one shop. But my condition was that she could provide a better bonus on a second shop slightly further than the first. She thought that was fair as did I. That's how it should work.

The Alta360 schedulers told me that they were not able to continue to provide the bonuses I had received to do shops on my routes as in the past (grocery stores 30-90 miles from me). I respected that and asked what they could provide. They told me, we negotiated and we both won.

The gas station shop schedulers don't do that in my experience.

Lori at Kern, who posts here, has been very forthcoming on what she is capable of doing and not doing. It's not her decision. It's the decision of the MSC she's scheduling for. I think all the shoppers on here who have dealt with her have the utmost respect for her honesty and willingness to help shoppers. Lori schedules a different gas station client with the big MSC that is mostly discussed here.

I have had that happened, and one better, they offered me a route I summit for half what I bid. I told them I could not do it for that amount they thanked me and that was that.

Just a clarification on who sent the "EGREGIOUS" email warning from that MSC...it was not the scheduler...it was the Senior Vice President -

@thunderdeacon wrote:

And we all know which scheduler we are talking about here.

I don't! I've been out of the loop for several years.