Pay held unfairly me thinks

I did a shipping mystery shop on a day that was -12 just to be reliable. Unfortunately, when I went to do the report, I found that I had videoed the package instead of taking a pic. I knew it was possible to grab a frame of a video but didn't know how, so went home and spent half an hour going through YouTube tutorials to learn how to do it, got the frame and uploaded the report before the time it was due. It was questioned the next day because the metadata showed the pic had been uploaded after the shop was done. I explained but they have denied my pay anyway (though it was a perfectly good shop that I'm sure they've submitted to the client.

Is there any recourse with Ipsos? This seems very unfair.

Shopping domestic and international locations since 2003.

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You are absolutely right that it's not fair--especially with a logical explanation. It seems they will use ANY reason to deny payment....
I would escalate it to the Project Manager for these projects, Patricia B. She is incredibly helpful and has stepped in to right other wrongs like this. Her contact info is on the Shopmetrics site - login, click on News, click on Team and you'll find her email address.
I'm with Cassie, There is no requirement for the pictures to be uploaded at the same time you do the shop. Or even for the picture to have the time and date stamp in the meta data for the same time as the shops. I often take the pictures of the boxes before I get to the locations, or even as soon as I put the new address labels on the boxes days before I actually do the shop. And the editors aren't supposed to make up rules that don't exist.
pambam inquires--Is there any recourse with Ipsos?

Bob replies--I am ignorant of any recourse, but definitely satisfaction; kick 'em to the curb. If a sufficient number of shoppers take that action, they will be forced to become adherents of the admonition of the King Cole Trio from 1943 and "Straighten Up and Fly Right."
If the time it took you to perform the shop (aside from the picture issue) dipped below the minimum wage standards for your state, you can report it to your state labor department, and CC the AG’s office. My guess is it was if it was for one of their PO shops. You have proof of how long the shop took and how long the survey took to complete. In addition you can submit a copy of all of the shops they post that pay below the hourly minimum wage.

They should be required to send a copy of the submitted report to the IC once they receive it, especially since they’re playing hardball with the midnight ‘poofs’. If it’s rejected they should be required to point out the exact # or Q on the survey that’s in error, along with an excerpt from the guidelines that relates to it. If they have no proof of an error, they owe you $.
I must be missing something. Minimum wage laws apply to employees. We are contractors. Contractors are not subject to minimum wage laws. What am I missing?
@Minime wrote:

If the time it took you to perform the shop (aside from the picture issue) dipped below the minimum wage standards for your state, you can report it to your state labor department, and CC the AG’s office. My guess is it was if it was for one of their PO shops. You have proof of how long the shop took and how long the survey took to complete. In addition you can submit a copy of all of the shops they post that pay below the hourly minimum wage.

They should be required to send a copy of the submitted report to the IC once they receive it, especially since they’re playing hardball with the midnight ‘poofs’. If it’s rejected they should be required to point out the exact # or Q on the survey that’s in error, along with an excerpt from the guidelines that relates to it. If they have no proof of an error, they owe you $.

Shopping South Jersey, Southeast Pennsylvania, and Delaware above the canal since 2008
@ServiceAward wrote:

Uploading the package photo after the shop is routine. However, pulling an image from the video would mean the image had metadata AFTER the shop - it would not have contained the data from the video. Sounds like the editor did not word the issue correctly. You can explain the issue, but as long as the META data shows the image was created after the shop, they are not going to approve it. The reason? Because it looks like you snapped the picture AFTER the shop. I realize you did not do that, but their client requires proof.

She typed uploaded instead of taken, but the meaning was clear.
Cassie, you're my hero/heroine today! I did contact Pat and she sent it back for review and I've now been paid! Thanks so much!

Shopping domestic and international locations since 2003.
In my 20+ yrs. as a shopper, I have experienced three jobs being rejected; two were my fault. As to the shop for which I was not to blame, I simply fired the MSC. The problem with regulation is that too often when any government is involved, the situation becomes a mess.

Many yrs, ago, a state official from one of the Dakotas was being interviewed on Ted Kopple's Nightline: Congress in D.C. was inferring with Dakota's penal system. The official pointed out that crime was quite high for the Capitol; much more so than for his state.
@myst4au wrote:

I must be missing something. Minimum wage laws apply to employees. We are contractors. Contractors are not subject to minimum wage laws. What am I missing?
@Minime wrote:

If the time it took you to perform the shop (aside from the picture issue) dipped below the minimum wage standards for your state, you can report it to your state labor department, and CC the AG’s office. My guess is it was if it was for one of their PO shops. You have proof of how long the shop took and how long the survey took to complete. In addition you can submit a copy of all of the shops they post that pay below the hourly minimum wage.

They should be required to send a copy of the submitted report to the IC once they receive it, especially since they’re playing hardball with the midnight ‘poofs’. If it’s rejected they should be required to point out the exact # or Q on the survey that’s in error, along with an excerpt from the guidelines that relates to it. If they have no proof of an error, they owe you $.
I explained this already. Worker = Minimum wage. Ipsos I’m sure is grappling with the fact that we are essential workers to them. Maybe that’s why all of their shops have gone ‘poof.’ Be prepared to work with outsourced schedulers and no bonus pay. I’m not saying it’s going to be any better for you, only that everyone should have seen it coming. You can report any problems to the state wage and hr. division.
[www.dol.gov]
I meant employee = Min. Wage. My eyes were glazing over.
@Minime wrote:

If the time it took you to perform the shop (aside from the picture issue) dipped below the minimum wage standards for your state, you can report it to your state labor department, and CC the AG’s office. My guess is it was if it was for one of their PO shops. You have proof of how long the shop took and how long the survey took to complete. In addition you can submit a copy of all of the shops they post that pay below the hourly minimum wage.

They should be required to send a copy of the submitted report to the IC once they receive it, especially since they’re playing hardball with the midnight ‘poofs’. If it’s rejected they should be required to point out the exact # or Q on the survey that’s in error, along with an excerpt from the guidelines that relates to it. If they have no proof of an error, they owe you $.

Where do you get this stuff?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2024 11:54PM by panama18.
@Minime wrote:

I explained this already. Worker = Minimum wage. Ipsos I’m sure is grappling with the fact that we are essential workers to them. Maybe that’s why all of their shops have gone ‘poof.’ Be prepared to work with outsourced schedulers and no bonus pay. I’m not saying it’s going to be any better for you, only that everyone should have seen it coming. You can report any problems to the state wage and hr. division.
[www.dol.gov]

The named MSC is not grappling at all. We are not essential workers. Simply pawns. For every one shopper who strives to report factually and earn a liveable income, there are at least 10 that are willing to work for free and/or cheat. Those are the prized contractors. There is no shortage of them. No grapple. As long as MSC can make a report passable to their client, they make money.
It doesn’t appear that any of you know what the laws are that the states and feds use to classify us. You probably didn’t know when these laws changed in the past and why either. You shouldn’t be giving others advice about it unless you’re sure. I’ve already shown you where to find it. If you are too lazy or disinterested, that’s fine, but don’t mislead or blame others searching for answers as to why they were cheated. And don’t ask me ‘where I get this stuff’ because your lazy A wants it spoon fed to you. If you haven’t noticed, most of the threads here have been about being cheated. I see that some immediately blame the poster. Trust me, nobody wants to ‘work for free.’ If that’s what the outcome was for them, they should know their rights.

If we contract with Ipsos, it doesn’t make us their ‘employees.’ The laws that have been passed and are essentially in effect now will require them to TREAT US AS EMPLOYEES. There are several factors used to determine if we are to be considered employees - with all of the same rights - or independent contractors. Most of them are in our favor to be considered employees. Maybe you should take the time to read up on it before making one line statements negating that.

If a company heavily relies on the ICs in order to conduct their business and wouldn’t be able to function without them, the ICs are viewed as employees - as far as the government is concerned. Thus we are considered ESSENTIAL WORKERS for that company. In the case of Ipsos, they’ve got their hands in several pots, but the majority of their contracts require our work in the field. If they give us the shaft by not following labor laws there IS recourse. Unfortunately most here are too fearful to stick up for themselves and assert their rights - WHICH HURTS ALL OF US. IPSOS KNOWS THIS BECAUSE THEY’RE MONITORING THIS BOARD.

There are a few other factors the state uses to determine our rights as workers. Another one is the ability to realize profit and loss. An aspect of that is whether or not the worker is able to discern if they can make a profit from their work. People taking Ipsos scraps only to get cheated are being used, and are not realizing a profit from their work. They don’t need you telling them it’s their own fault because they didn’t follow the rules - since you don’t know what they are either. In this case both of you would be considered to have ‘employee’ status in the gov’t view. These federal laws are based on decades of labor case law that must be followed by Ipsos. Implementation and oversite is mostly handled by the states. Some states may have stricter laws in place which would supersede the Fed’s guidelines.

You’re free to contract with them or not regardless, but if you do, the advice I gave was in order to protect your right to be paid. Here it is in detail:

Take a screen shot of the offer page before you accept and submit it. Then take a screenshot of the acceptance page. Take screenshots of the guidelines. If the rules conflict between the offer page and the guidelines - F them. Favor what you will. It’s their responsibility to fix it, and they’ve been alerted enough times. They purposely don’t correct it so they can use it as a ‘splitting’ tool and an excuse not to pay you. You don’t have to know ANY OTHER RULES about time stamps or other such crap unless it’s specifically notated in the guidelines for that shop. If your shop gets rejected for anything not listed in the guidelines or they make an unreasonable demand that you aren’t obligated to fulfill - waste no time in sending a complaint to the ‘HELP’ link for the shop, Take a screenshot of it BEFORE YOU SUBMIT IT. Make them aware that you want a copy of the survey - which they deny you access to after it is submitted - and request that they point to the exact # or question or attachment on the survey that they find fault with - AND WHY. Take a screenshot of this request, then copy and paste the text and email it to the editor, the scheduler, and any ‘higher up’ overseeing the scheduler. CC yourself the emails and create a file for it. Unfortunately this is what’s required if you don’t want to risk getting cheated by Ipsos. It doesn’t take much time actually but it will for them, and they’ll get sick of it right quick. Just ask DP, who claims that complaining to other entities won’t help you. Dumb move. When this crap happens it’s a reflection on them and who they are, and they WILL have to deal with it as a whole, instead of the current revolving blame game cluster F they have in place now.

If you don’t get a satisfactory result, send a copy of your correspondence or lack thereof to the BBB, your state’s AGs office and your State Dept. of Labor Wage and Hour Division. Include a copy of any online shop offers that don’t meet the minimum wage requirements. Ipsos will automatically be required to respond to all 3. Even if they bend and pay you at any point, you’ll still have proof that they TRIED TO EXPLOIT YOUR WORK AND WITHHOLD YOUR EARNINGS. You have no idea whether Ipsos actually used your work but you can request that these gov’t entities look into it. It may not occur to them what the motivation or incentive for Ipsos is and that needs to be looked into. We know when we made a mistake and when we didn’t. It’s not rocket science. Add the complaints to your file and follow up if you don’t hear back. If Ipsos drops you by deactivating access to your account, report this retaliatory action towards you, their employee. Ask the highest level Ipsos supervisor to explain why you were dropped and save any response, which you most likely won’t get. You will then have a case as an injured party if a class action arises. THE AMOUNT OF YOUR LOSS ISN’T THE SOLE FACTOR IN DETERMINING THE SETTLEMENT FEES AND PUNITIVE DAMAGES.

There are a lot of people watching and waiting to see what Ipsos will do in abiding by these new and enhanced laws. I dropped them years ago when Trump reversed the protections we did have. Nobody will tolerate another reversal. Ipsos has their hand in political polling and forecasting among other questionable enterprises. If you don’t believe this, look them up on the BBB’s website and see the hundred of complaints - many from people in the UK - who contracted to do endless opinion surveys for them in order to obtain ‘Points’ that went ‘Poof’ when it came time to cash in on them. From what I’ve seen their practices have not improved at all, and they continue to roll the dice in their treatment of us. Trust me, there are many other legit companies out there if you bother to look. You can get by just fine without them. I did. Plus it won’t be long before their pay becomes even worse. I’ve seen scheduler spreadsheets sent in error showing the budget for each shop in different locations. They take the lions share and give you a pittance of it. There’s no ‘I’ll have to check to see’ if the scheduler can increase the pay. It’s within their discretion. When they send you offers via text, ask if it’s a group text before responding. You get tested in so many ways.
I laugh when companies try and use the metadata excuse when withholding pay.

Metadata can be changed easily, you can clear the metadata and you can manipulate it to reflect whatever and wherever you want.
Great advice here. But I'm not an employee by any standards and happen to live in a DGAF stated which systematically fails millions of people who have more dire issues that an occasional shop rejection.
Your responses vacillate between being a victim to an authority on a matter. They seem to be contradictory just for the sake of it. Nobody cares how you classify yourself, but keep in mind that has ZERO bearing on how others should identify their worker status. Since you seem to be a big fan of ‘Shopper Bob’s’ adages, here’s some more for you.. Pick your poison. Knowledge is power. Don’t put your eggs all in one basket.

@sestrahelena wrote:

Great advice here. But I'm not an employee by any standards and happen to live in a DGAF stated which systematically fails millions of people who have more dire issues that an occasional shop rejection.
Service Award: judging by your past responses you had no clue about any of this until you read the link I provided. Yet you still think you’re the authority on the matter. You obviously don’t know what the CURRENT LAW is either. The first paragraph is totally false and misleading. The rest is loosely parroting the page I provided. Your understanding of it is still questionable, so let others read and comprehend for themselves.

You also have no clue if what I advised would be able to be used as proof of fraud and theft of service from a small claim, to a class action, and anything in between. Regardless of the timing, which is coming very soon, all of the entities I listed will have an obligation to look into it, and Ipsos will be obliged to respond. Consider it a warm up lap for things to come.

Less work opportunity will be with the companies that have done their shoppers dirty. And that will come solely from their need to punish you. The legit ones who have always provided minimum wage won’t have anything to worry about. Why you think that will change is not explained, nor did you provide proof of anything else you’re asserting. You should be happy that a labor union would be willing to advocate for you, since you haven’t been able to do so for yourself. One burn should be enough, unless you’re a 2 hatter.
@Minime wrote:

Your responses vacillate between being a victim to an authority on a matter. They seem to be contradictory just for the sake of it. Nobody cares how you classify yourself, but keep in mind that has ZERO bearing on how others should identify their worker status. Since you seem to be a big fan of ‘Shopper Bob’s’ adages, here’s some more for you.. Pick your poison. Knowledge is power. Don’t put your eggs all in one basket.

@sestrahelena wrote:

Great advice here. But I'm not an employee by any standards and happen to live in a DGAF stated which systematically fails millions of people who have more dire issues that an occasional shop rejection.


Aww, you didn't use Shopperbob's, "One man's meat..." That's my favorite.
I’ve got more.. This is like the blind leading the blind. There’s no such thing as a free lunch. The pen is mightier than the sword.
Service Award comments--It is in nobody's interest for IC workers to be classified as employees.

Bob absolutely agrees--I do not recall the yr. when a company informed me I must become their employee, but it was in my second decade of self-employment in the 1970s; I walked. If shoppers were to become so, I will again walk.

Service Award concludes by opining--Hopefully there will be a complete change in government later this year, and it will go back to staying out of MY business.

Bob vehemently agrees--also MINE. I will continue to handle MY shopping problems MY way and neither desire nor need Sam's assistance.
Service Award: I happen to find your insults and anger really inappropriate but what I find most pathetic is your need to impress people here with your ‘know it all’ attitude.’ You really aren’t smart enough to pass. Show me ONE post from the past from you in which you discussed ANY of the details of the NEW REGULATIONS. You’re trying to feed people gibberish that it’s being appealed. PROVE IT. You bring no proof to the table and certainly DID read the link I provided. You copied it almost word for word ???? except when you added a few to try to provide your slant on it. You made no mention of it when it passed as law either. Hmmmm….

If you haven’t noticed I’ve done nothing to try to endear myself TO YOU. Some people have no sense of humor - or sense of time for that matter. It’s 2024 people, catch up.
As for your assertion of your political views - You will always be part of that 38% of the population who likes to think they’re educated and making informed decisions about their leadership, but you show clear signs of ‘cognitive dissonance’ and a lack of ‘critical thinking skills’ which leads you to entrust you rights and power as a woman to a madman who craps on women on a regular basis. So essentially you share a camaraderie with men who want to control women like they did in the past. Again, probably in an attempt to impress. BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU, THE EXCUSE FOR A MAN WHO CREATED HIS OWN ORANGE RACE CARES NOTHING ABOUT YOU, AND WILL CONTROL EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR EXISTENCE IF GIVEN THE CHANCE. Rest assured - that won’t happen. We won’t be electing a jailbird. ???? You may identify with him because you share the same character flaws and insecurities, but he’s only interested in using you. Kinda similar to what you accept as a MS. You provide no back up for anything you espouse. Show us all of your posts providing some enlightenment on the subject. I’d love to see them.
In the meantime - if it will make you feel better - here you go… ???? ????
Aww, even the board won’t allow for you to accept the tiniest trophy on the planet. A plaque will be extra.
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