Eric, did you bother to go back and look at what I actually said and compare it with what you said I said? Everyone else here can see that you misquoted me.

What I said: "I can understand OP's conflict, if the word was said without rancor and not preceded by the words "dirty" "lazy" or "g-damn" which would clearly convey hostility toward blacks. I personally think too much is made about the N word when it is not said with hostility."

What you said I said: "I personally think too much is made about the N word, which would clearly convey hostility toward blacks."

Are you really unable to see that those are not the same words that I wrote? You can't see that you put the second half of the first sentence as the ending to the second sentence?

How do you manage to tie your shoes in the morning?

So dspeakes, where exactly is the misquote? I quoted you specifically from paragraphs 2, 7, and 8 of your original post. While you may have a strong opinion about what you've written, not everyone here is going to agree with it. Your follow up post just goes to show your reluctance to clarify your post as well as perpetual condescending attitude toward not only myself, but to some of the other forum members says quite a bit. You keep saying to others + myself that I've misquoted you, yet you don't give one example of where the misquote was. This seems like a continual diversionary tactic of yours whenever someone disagrees with what you said.

While its clearly your prerogative to post in response on what the OP asked what the best course of action is, your nonchalance toward the use of racial slurs and its tolerance is quite disappointing. While some of the other posters as well as yourself may feel differently, I don't share that same tolerance that you do.

Let me try this one more time: (beating head against wall, wish it was yours) Maybe if I line the words up over each your can see the difference.

I said: ..........." I personally think too much is made about the N word when it is not said with hostility."

You said I said: "I personally think too much is made about the N word, which would clearly convey hostility toward blacks."


Now stop being a blithering idiot about this. YOU MISQUOTED ME. Why can everyone see it but you? Can you not even see that your sentence is several words longer than my original sentence? How can you sit here and say you quoted me verbatim? Maybe you should go look up the difference between "verbatim" and "paraphrase."

Good grief, are you a child? Standing there with chocolate all over his face denying he got into the Dove bars?

I give up. You're a moron and there's no point in arguing with you any more. But I suspect you have just lost the respect of every person in the "room" here.

I'm a moron and an idiot for asking for clarification on what you've wrote? Yet in time and time again when I've asked for clarification on both PMs and public posts, the only defense that you've given is that you were misquoted? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have a history of saying that you were misquoted when someone doesn't agree with you? And this isn't just me. There are several other posters within this forum that can attest to this: this is your only defense. And why? Its because you can't admit that you are wrong. You cannot admit the fact that possibly in that infalliable mind of yours that you may have been mistaken on a subject matter.

While you may have some agreement from other posters that you're opinion is 100% right all the time (particularly in this post), the perception given to me from your comments is that of nonchalance toward African-Americans with regard to using racial slurs in a private conversation. That it isn't a big deal. As I've asked before, how would you know? Are you African-American yourself? You asked the OP the same question (it wasn't answered), so I'm asking you now.

Given your history of evasive answers, insulting those that dissent from your opinion and waffling on clearly stated posts, I don't expect much of an answer from you. Prove me wrong.

Eric, dspeakes was definitely misquoted just as she says and just as she has shown in several posts. Refusing to admit the misquote does not make it go away. Picking a few words from here and a few words from there and putting them together to make a completely different thought is not a quote. It is, in fact, misdirection, and now you're misdirecting again by stating that you didn't misquote. You definitely altered her post to make it say what you preferred rather than what she said. You misquoted and your denial is astonishing.

Back to the subject at hand. I have been back in this area, NE Ohio, for about 12 years. While I will NEVER use that word, you would be shocked at how many people use it in normal, everyday conversation (here). It used to shock me and I had this urge to go smack some one in the face (for saying that word), but I have just come to accept it has normal. It is normally said by younger people, of all colors, to other younger people in a friendly manner, usually as a greeting.

I think it really depends on where you are. I still find the word very offensive, but obviously the younger generation, here, does not.

Black people often use that word when talking among themselves. That doesn't make it right but it still happens and if the sales person was black and the shopper was black he might have thought it was OK.

And Focking is considered an adjective (among other things) in many parts of New York and the NE. I have heard educated, well dressed men use it in a business setting and it is accepted as relatively normal. It is a regional thing.

N----R is not just a word, was designed to offend, no matter how many rap artist use it they are about making money, and show no real concern culturally or even bother really understand the origin, they are basically offensive in their language as rappers. I would report the use of that word withoout hesitation, the salesperson needs to be held accountable, dspeakes, it does not matter if the word was used with hostility it is a hostile word dating from slavery to now, don't know your ethnic background but wharever the word used to slur your people I, sure is offensive .

I certainly agree that you should report it but I think you should report it directly to the scheduler and be sure he/she agrees with putting it in the report. If you have reported it to the scheduler you have fulfilled your obligation. The scheduler could well say thank you and I'll report it myself to our client. I suggest you not put it in the report. You work as an independent contractor for the msc and the scheduler and not for the client.

JCarson, if you read this entire thread, you will see that DSpeakes said it should be included in the report.

In my opinion, I believe the reason this has blown up into a full-fledged conflagration is because DSpeakes was speaking unemotionally (through her head) about her views on using the "N word"; whereas her detractors are viewing the issue emotionally (through their hearts) and and to quote Kipling, "and never the twain will meet".

At this point, I think the most valuable thing everyone can do is to agree, to disagree....and move on.

(heart)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2015 08:58PM by stilllearning.

I've refrained from commenting here, but I did a search on the etymology of the word. It was derived from the Spanish and Portuguese word "negro" meaning "black". An alternative word for African Americans was the English word, "Black", used by Thomas Jefferson in his Notes on the State of Virginia. Among Anglophones, the word was not always considered derogatory, because it then denoted "black-skinned", a common Anglophone usage. Nineteenth-century English (language) literature features usages of ------ without racist connotation, e.g. the Joseph Conrad novella The N of the 'Narcissus' (1897). Moreover, Charles Dickens and Mark Twain created characters who used the word as contemporary usage. Twain, in the autobiographic book Life on the Mississippi (1883), used the term within quotes, indicating reported usage, but used the term "negro" when speaking in his own narrative persona.

During the fur trade of the early 1800s to the late 1840s in the Western United States, the word was spelled with a "ur" at the end and is often recorded in literature of the time. George Fredrick Ruxton often included the word as part of the "mountain man" lexicon, and did not indicate that the word was pejorative at the time. It was evidently similar to the modern use of dude, or guy. This passage from Ruxton's Life in the Far West illustrates a common use of the word in spoken form—the speaker here referring to himself: "Travler, marm, this ------'s no travler; I ar' a trapper, marm, a mountain-man, wagh!" It was not used as a term exclusively for blacks among mountain men during this period, as Indians, Mexicans, and Frenchmen and Anglos alike could be a "------". There was also a time when the word meant, "A person who has no value to his race, a bum."

I cross-posted with Stilllearning and I think, after the etymology lesson, that yes, let's move on.

I think you have to be honest and report it the way it happened. From the client's perspective, you may be saving them a law suit. From a customer's perspective, who wants to deal with anyone that far in a cave?

Just tell the truth.

Anyone who thinks the n word is harmless needs to watch "The Butler" to, hopefully, have a change of heart.

Hi,

It does not matter if a person is from the South. The United States of America's laws apply to all the states (even you Commonwealth people & Alaska). Mystery shopping not only is for customer service (although I digress here). It is to see if proper procedures are followed. This may violate Equal Employment Opportunity laws. A person who is employed cannot discriminate. It is not only specific discrimination against a specific person. I am no lawyer but I believe it is "racist" language used by the employee. These sorts of fines are hundreds of thousands of dollars if the company knows but does nothing to address the problem. A company who hired a marketing company (that we work for) may be seeking this. Even if they are not, given the intensity of the offense the marketing company is legally liable to let the company they work for know.

Anyway never feel bad to do your job. The person you feel bad for did not do their job. There are other issues but this salesperson did break the law. When I have doubts I just call or email the Scheduler and seek their advice. Maybe you should use them for this?

@RobinMarie wrote:

Come on folks, you can't compare the times of Mark Twain to today. Since it was ok then, it's ok now?

Historically, black people have been owned, without rights, were sold/beaten/traded, hung, discriminated against and marginalized at every turn ....

So using the language of 'then' only serves to validate the treatment received 'then' and now. The good ole days eh?

This is well said and a good point on perspective. In regards to words, they do matter because they show us where a person's perspective is coming from. The N-word, for the past few decades, has been a word used in hatespeech. Plain and simple. Hatespeech is just that: talking that expresses hatred. Be it subconcious hatred or outright bigotry, it's still hatred and it's still reflective of a racist perspective. This is why it's wrong, regardless of who is saying it or what race they identify as.
Nobody gets a "pass" because they grew up in a certain culture or have heard it used in a "friendly" way. If we want racism to stop being ingrained in American culture, EVERYBODY has to be held accountable for the way they speak and the judgements those words express.

I'm not a new shopper but this is my first comment on the forum. As a senior black woman, I will state that the use of the "N" word in lyrics and to each other is a generational problem. Alot of young black people don't understand how hurtful that word has been to us in the past. Older black people would never use that word to their friends. Same as the "B" word, older women would never use that word to their friends either. It's about the history of the words. See the movie "Selma" and you might understand more. Peace, love and soul.

I would have to honestly put that into my report. I've had employees give me inside information on negotiating a good deal and found ways not to include the information without compromising my integrity. But anytime you mystery shop and the employee's performance is not up to the standards set by the employer, they will have trouble.

Wow. You should have known this topic would stir up a hornet's nest Jessashopper. My first thought was the heck with letting the client know, I would have made sure to let the manager of the car dealership know! That word should NEVER be said in a professional setting by employees of any color!! Then I would have found a way to work it into the report. In my opinion this is exactly the kind of thing the client would want to know. Good luck and carry on shopping!

Myself, I can't stand this nasty habit the salesperson has brought to the work place, and it will also repel potential customers. At the very least, it shows his level of intelligence.

I would leave it up to the mystery shopping company to decide how to proceed with it by making a phone call to the scheduler for advice, and I would be careful about how to even begin the conversation.

Did the shopper ever state in what context they heard this remark? was this something said to them or something they overheard. I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is if the remark was made to the shopper while conducting the shop.

Written like a true suburbanite. If you do not live in a "mixed" society you may never hear the N word.

I have heard black parents call their child the N word when scolding them. "Come here you little N". (in an angry tone).

I have heard groups of black males, like you said in your quote, greet each other on the corner (I hate to use the word "affectionately". "Hey N!",and they are "bumping hands" with various finger positions and smiling. If you are black you know what I mean. If you are not you do not have a clue.

I am Caucasian but since I was old enough to understand my parents taught me "people are people". Some will be friendly and some will be prejudiced simply because you are white or because of your religion or you do not wear the latest style of clothes or you are not in the "click".

I had three brothers and there were three brothers who were black around the corner. We did not come from an affluent neighborhood. We grew up to be successful leaders and or professionals. I believed my parent's teachings especially when they tried to explain the difference between wealthy and poor. It does not matter where you come from it matter that you know where you are going. Those who did not wish to have the privilege of being my friend because I came from the wrong side the tracks or was not the right color or religion or nationality deprived themselves.

I have had a great many friends and associates and I have mentored many over the years. You CAN have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Zig Zigler said that. Many years before I heard of Zig Zigler I was taught and I practiced, "You CAN have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want if you help them CHEERFULLY AND WITH INTEGRITY. No one enjoys being cheated or abused. That make quite a difference as you are never tempted to "use" people just because you can.

Those who adopt that common sense will have a better business and social life. You must earn people's trust.

@SunnyDays2 wrote:

I never seem to hear the N-word with most people anymore... The place you hear it most, is between black males in rap songs and on the street, saying things like, "N-Please" "My-N" and other forms of expression.

It is truly rare to hear someone say that word. He sounds like he has his head up his ass

I really did not expect quite a response to this post, and after I submitted my report, I basically forgot all about the incident and reaching out to the community for your input. I only remembered posting when I got the weekly email from the forum and it said this was one of the top discussions. Thank you, and I would like to clarify a few things because I Think that it's important to tell the whole story. This salesperson was nice, he was friendly, and he also arrived in the United States from Cuba less than four years ago. Amazingly, this is not the first time I've heard an immigrant/foreigners/visitor to the United States use the N-word, but it is the first time I've heard it used in a mystery shop. I think it is absolutely disgusting, and when I've heard other people use it, I have reprimanded them immediately, explaining to them that that is an inappropriate word to be used by anyone.

I was mostly asking how are you should explain this in the reports, so that I would not be identified as a mystery shopper. Honestly, had a sales person used that term with me while I was actually shopping, I would have gone to his manager immediately. I mostly shop in Miami/South Florida, which is significantly different than most other locations in the country. In fact, Miami is basically a foreign country, for all intents and purposes.

I have not read all of the comments yet, but I am sitting in traffic now and will try to do so. I do appreciate all of the responses, and I am glad to have such a knowledgeable community where I know I will be able to get help and advice from others in the business.

I am joining this discussion 12 days later, so obviously you took whatever action you did by now. I hope you reported it. As others said, we work for the client. Yes, you want to be fair, as you said. "Fair" is defined as "reporting the facts." He mentioned an obviously offensive word in today's society. I would report it. There is also a cultural issue to consider, which I once addressed with friends of mine. I/we seem to be assuming that this salesperson is not Black, nor are you? I mention that only because in some circles, I KNOW that Black people (generally who already know each other) will actually use the word something like this: "S'up, nigga?" I once addressed that with Black friends of mine, saying that if I were to have said that (I am Caucasian), it would be offensive. But when two Black people who know each other well say it to each other casually like that, it seems to be acceptable. But in your case, even if the two of you are both Black, you obviously did not know each other (or you should have declined to continue the shop, per shopper rules), so his use of the term (regardless of whether he's Black or not) was inappropriate and racially offensive. I had a circumstance come up once that was so obvious, that if I reported it, the salesperson would easily be able to identify me. I informed the Scheduler, so she could let the Client know that if that information were left in the report and the salesperson were to see it, that would definitely blow my cover. But (like your situation), if they remove it, and if this person uses that term commonly (cultural thing, you said?), then you will allow Management to address the issue with him as if someone else reported it anonymously. Final thought: Report ALL the facts, good or bad. That's why you were hired to do the shop.

I would hope that, if you mentioned the use of the "N" word in your report, you also mentioned that the salesperson had emigrated from Cuba less than four years ago.

To me, leaving that out of the original post was leaving out a key piece of information. If you left it out of the report, then, IMHO, you did a great disservice to the salesperson because of the cultural differences.

@frank860 wrote:

Final thought: Report ALL the facts, good or bad. That's why you were hired to do the shop.

In some cases that is not why you were hired. Some editors are afraid to send their clients negative reports so the editors send me the reports back asking me to falsify the reports. There is no such thing as a report that is "too negative". I call them as I see them. The editors could not handle the truth.

One editor actually told me they wanted a positive report that should only report minor issues. The editor said my observations were “acceptable by company standards.” I was asked to rewrite that narrative and I wrote, "If , (and I mentioned the negatives) are acceptable by company standards the location was excellent. The editor got their "excellent" report.

I do not work for those MCS that cheat their clients by my choice. Owners should have the opportunity to know the “fly on the wall” observed the good, bad and ugly. The owners of the franchises hired me to give them the opportunity to praise the good employees and hopefully retrain those who need retraining and give compassion to those who were having their first experience by prompting them.

Owners know their locations can not be perfect. Some reports want my opinion about what I liked and what could be improved. When I found locations that were managed well I told the owners I was "nitpicking" when they asked for a negative. I probably got some retail and restaurant employees who did not enjoy servicing customers fired. I gave obviously new employees consideration as it was their "amateur hour" and I was "lucky" enough to be part of their training experience. I would not accept their performance if they were seasoned. I do not remember when I tried to take my first step and landed on my diaper but I do I remember many times when I was “new” and was mentored.

Wow! I have missed so much in a few days of not being on the forum. Well I am from the Caribbean and I must say to my surprise how sock I was when I first came to live here in Great U.S.A. I have wanted to live hear since I could speak.

Now, cultural differences is true, if you walk down the street as an American, in just about any of the islands of the Caribbean you will hear people use the word in question, like someone saying brother or sister or even cousin. But I have always personally find that to be belittling and have refrain from use word or remarks that can be derogatory. However, not everyone even in the in the islands have my morals, principles, parenting, call it what you may.

That said, its is very common word to use in the islands, more shocking is that is a kind of a friendly greeting, not just one use among friends and family. So don't be to quick to say the 'R' word. Sometime we need to be re - educated or go through a period of climatization in order to handle new environment. The time for this to happen depend on the individual. I am not surprise. I am going to say thank you for not making a scene of it and realizing that it was not intended to be insult. All in all the situation seemed to be handled in a very diplomatic way, and I say hat off to you.

Seriously was hoping this thread would die a quick and painful death. Thought it had but then it was resurrected.

And now you're giving it CPR.

But I appreciate the perspective from another culture. So I'm glad it was resurrected for that purpose.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2015 03:11AM by dspeakes.