Ah yes let's bring up all those supposed misquotes, one of which was in jest. I get why the quote was changed. There is no innocent interpretation of racial slurs no matter how you would like to spin it that way.

Ah, as usual, you all have the right to your opinion -- but I don't.

Business as usual here. And for the record, it was bgriffin who misquoted me to make a joke I did not find funny because it quoted me as insulting schedulers with whom I had a good relationship and would never have belittled. I asked him not to put words in my mouth and then was dogpiled on with accusations of having no sense of humor.

Lisa misquoted me and then argued with the quote she created. Kinda like what happened here -- so of course she's going to jump in and defend someone who did the same thing she did.

I don't know what to call it when someone deliberately and maliciously misquotes. Honky slur?

@dspeakes wrote:

and then was dogpiled on with accusations of having no sense of humor.

That's because it was hilarious and you have no sense of humor. Sorry but tis true.

@bgriffin wrote:

@dspeakes wrote:

and then was dogpiled on with accusations of having no sense of humor.

That's because what I did was rude and disrespectful and I'm an arrogant ass. Thanks for pointing it out.

How's that shoe feel on the other foot?

HA! That was pretty funny too, although not really original. Also my txt in the post was "fixed it for you" to indicate that indeed the quote I quoted was not your actual quote and had been "fixed."

The most hilarious part is that you weren't even trying to be funny there, you were trying to be mean, which made it even more hilarious that it would have been otherwise.

Tomorrow when I am not using my phone I will be happy to provide the exact quotes and links to the thread. Everyone can then read how I acknowledged my error misquoting dspeakes rather than her interpretation. They can also read her assertion regarding my "wealth" because I found it necessary to carry insurance on my car. My only car, not one of three vehicles and not one I will trade in after a limited amount of time because I've tired of it.

With all the dog-piling going on with you people, I think it is time to get you all spayed and neutered.

You can defend yourself and make jokes all you want, bgriffin, but deliberately changing someone's words is wrong. You don't get to decide when it is and isn't appropriate and thinking something is funny does not justify doing something that is wrong. And bragging about how "hilarious" you thought it was to quote me as insulting the nice ladies at Maritz just further shows the level of maturity that runs through your sense of humor.

But the current point is Eric in Tampa's misquote of me, which was of a much more serious nature due to the topic, especially given the rant against me he delivered up in response to his manufactured quotation, which then led others to agree with his assessment of me, which was based up on his twisting of my words.

And yes, Lisa, let's drag that old incident out further. I'm sure everyone is popping corn just so they can continue to watch the drama. Bottom line, you misquoted me then ripped me up over your misquote. And i never saw any acknowledgment of your error; you must have put that up after i took my ball and left. But by all means, give them the link. I'm sure by now you've edited your misquote to something benign.

All I was doing here was acknowledging OP's turmoil over reporting what the salesman said with apparently no malicious or hateful intent. Never said it was right to use the N word, only that it is not something to massacre someone over when it was said without hatred, and possibly accidentally. I asked if he was black because if he was black and used the word, it is not as objectionable as if he was white and used the word. I said several times that people find the word offensive and it should not be used because of that. But people now are thinking I think it's okay to use it and maybe even that I am racist just because I don't find it to be a "hanging offense."

Thanks to Eric and his misquoting rant.

@Eric in Tampa wrote:

Dspeakes, really? REALLY? For someone that is supposed to have a good rationale on this forum, I am a bit disappointed in your response:

"I personally think too much is made about the N word, which would clearly convey hostility toward blacks."

Wow, if that's not a contradicting sentence or what? You also go on to ask if the salesman where black. My question is, are you black? You also go on to mention that "I'm more concerned with hostile attitudes and discrimination than with the word used to refer to someone who is not actually present to be offended by it. I don't need to be offended on someone else's behalf. I think blacks probably have less issue with being referred to as "ni**ers" than they would with being referred to as "f-ing African-Americans."

Again, how would you know what one culture tends to think? Do you really believe that the African-American culture would think less of being called a n**ger than anything else, let alone a "f**king African-American?" That is just like me saying that all women, regardless of their ethnicity, age or background, is accurately portrayed in today's society with stereotypes passed down through generations that continually are reinforced. Yeah, you think that I would think too much of that? Do you think that I would have less issue with that in speaking with someone either in private or in public?

You are some piece of work, Dspeakes. Thanks for letting us know how you really feel about cultures, as well as what you DON'T OBVIOUSLY KNOW ABOUT CULTURES.

Eric, dspeakes did not say the quote you attributed to her. You made that up yourself.

Then you ranted against your own fictitious quote. Good job with the character assassination.

What Eric did was attach the end of one sentence to the beginning of the following sentence. I think he misread the paragraph, got upset, was sloppy in transcribing it, and then ranted against what he thought I said.

I don't think he did it deliberately.

But people have got to use that Quote button or copy and paste and put quotation marks around things instead of trying to re-type them. We have enough flame attacks going on in this forum without creating more of them due to not re-reading what already doesn't sound right. He admits being surprised that I would say it, states that the sentence he wrote was contradictory, but instead of scratching his head and saying "Huh? Why would she say that?" he just lit into me.

As for his questioning my guessing about what would offend a black person more -- being referred to as "N" without anger or being called an "f-ing A-A" -- this is conjecture based on the fact that I would be far less offended by being called a wop (I'm Italian) by someone without anger or hatred than being called a "f-ing Italian" by someone who meant to insult me.

Contrary to his conclusion, it would be more racist of me to assume all black people would take offense in a situation where I wouldn't take offense than for me to assume that most black people can distinguish between a benign slip of the tongue and a deliberate insult. Sure, there are some blacks who go out of their way to take offense at anything any white person says to them any time in any context. But I hardly think that is indicative of the entire race, any more than I think every white person who says the N word in any context does so because they think blacks are beneath them and deserving of insults.

If a white person happens to like one of those songs with the N word in it, are we not allowed to sing/rap along with the music? Are we not allowed to go into a music store and ask for it by name? Where is the line drawn? Doesn't context matter? Doesn't intent matter? Pardon me for making a bad pun, but things aren't always black and white.

I wish everyone would stop saying derogatory words and phrases that apply to race, gender, sexual orientation or ethnicity, whether they belong to that group or not. Saying derogatory words keeps the negativity alive whether people realize it or not. It bothers me that so many black people (and it's not just young people) find the N word perfectly acceptable to say to and about each other, and that it's become a term of endearment with some black people, especially because the word has such a horrible history attached to it. This didn't become an epidemic until the 90s but it's still an epidemic today. It's just not the same as when one Irish guy calls another Irish guy a "Mic" (just for one example) because he can, although I believe that's often the perception on the part of the person saying it. To me, it's just ignorant, no matter who says it. I think some black people enjoy saying the N word in the presence of white people just so they can make white people feel uncomfortable. It works. I cringe every time I hear it. It's disrespectful, especially to those who made great sacrifices for civil rights. But I'm old school!

I'd report the employee's choice of words, regardless of his race. It's unprofessional conduct in a workplace (unless you're shopping Def Jam records or something like it! LOL).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2015 08:13AM by nycrocks.

"I personally think too much is made about the N word when it is not said with hostility."

"I agree it needs to be mentioned. He should not use that word in the workplace, whether he is white or black and whether the customer is white or black. It should not be used, because many people find it offensive and we should not be offending our customers, whether deliberately or inadvertently."

"But I disagree with the statement that a person cannot be nice and friendly and still let that word slip out. Certainly people can be nice and friendly and still commit social faux pas."

"I don't need to be offended on someone else's behalf. "

dspeakes - these were my favorite quotes from your initial post and I think they reflect an insight that not everyone has. Perhaps it is because of where they live and the people they know. I currently know and have known many black people that use the word "nigga" in a friendly, playful way with other black people. I know many of these people's hearts and know they are very nice, good people. It is also not up to me, especially as a white woman, to get offended on behalf of all black people because these people use this word with one another. You are also quite clear, and I agree, that using words like this regardless of the context or tone are completely inappropriate in the workplace and it should be reported. Good thoughts!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2015 10:50AM by rainy.

When I hear the n-word, I am not offended on behalf of all black people. I am offended on behalf of all people.

@dspeakes wrote:

I have a client from New York who refers to gays as "fags" which jolts me because I have several gays and lesbians in my acquaintance (and have gay characters in my books) and around here, calling someone a fag is not a term of endearment, but I have not judged him on it because I have not felt disgust from him when he used the word and I suspect this may be a regional thing. Not living in New York myself, I don't know if it is common to use that word instead of "gay" or "queer." So until I know more, I am reluctant to judge him for using a word that may be nothing more than the commonly used term where he came from. If I ever sense an attitude from him about it, I will call him down on the attitude. But I'm not going to judge him or presume him to be homophobic because of the word he used.

You're unsure whether fag or queer might not be offensive but rather "regional"?

SMH.

@chigirl777 wrote:

When I hear the n-word, I am not offended on behalf of all black people. I am offended on behalf of all people.

That's very PC and noble of you, but I tend to not get my knickers in a knot and get offended on behalf of civilization over something that the people directly involved aren't even offended over. So many people express feigned moral outrage over things like this and ironically don't even have one black person in their life they could call a true friend (not saying you don't).

@chigirl777 wrote:

@dspeakes wrote:

I have a client from New York who refers to gays as "fags" which jolts me because I have several gays and lesbians in my acquaintance (and have gay characters in my books) and around here, calling someone a fag is not a term of endearment, but I have not judged him on it because I have not felt disgust from him when he used the word and I suspect this may be a regional thing. Not living in New York myself, I don't know if it is common to use that word instead of "gay" or "queer." So until I know more, I am reluctant to judge him for using a word that may be nothing more than the commonly used term where he came from. If I ever sense an attitude from him about it, I will call him down on the attitude. But I'm not going to judge him or presume him to be homophobic because of the word he used.

You're unsure whether fag or queer might not be offensive but rather "regional"?

SMH.

I have many, many gay friends (in different states) and have often heard them referring to themselves and each other as fags, dykes, queers, and so on. Maybe if people expanded their horizons and didn't just associate with people that are just like themselves, they would have a better understanding that oftentimes people on the outside looking in might be offended while the people actually involved in the situation are not...so why bother getting upset over it? I also have watched shows (sometimes with gay or TS friends) like Queer as Folk, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, etc., and none of us was ever offended.... but people are free to get offended if they choose to. I just don't get why. It's especially strange to me that people who aren't even in the same category as the people that should allegedly be offended, like gay people, should have any involvement in dictating to those people and others what is offensive to every single one of them.

Someone who uses a potentially offensive word, the manner and context in which they use that word, and the relationship between that person and the recipient are important factors to consider before having a knee-jerk reaction to reading/hearing the word.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2015 02:02PM by rainy.

Time for people to chill. Handing everyone a B&W cookie...

[allrecipes.com]

INGREDIENTS
1 cup unsalted butter
1 3/4 cups white sugar
4 eggs
1 cup milk
1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon lemon extract
2 1/2 cups cake flour
2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking powder
1/2 teaspoon salt
4 cups confectioners' sugar
1/3 cup boiling water
1 (1 ounce) square bittersweet chocolate, chopped


DIRECTIONS
Preheat oven to 375 degrees F (190 degrees C). Butter 2 baking sheets.
In a medium bowl, cream together butter and sugar until smooth. Beat in eggs one at a time, then stir in the milk, vanilla, and lemon extract.
Combine cake flour and all-purpose flour, baking powder, and salt; gradually blend into the creamed mixture. Drop tablespoonfuls of the dough 2 inches apart on prepared baking sheets.
Bake until edges begin to brown, about 20 to 30 minutes. Cool completely.

Place confectioners sugar in large bowl. Mix in boiling water one tablespoon at a time until mixture is thick and spreadable. (Add more than the indicated amount if you need to).
Transfer half of the frosting to the top of a double boiler set over simmering water. Stir in the chocolate. Warm mixture, stirring frequently, until the chocolate melts. Remove from heat.
With a brush, coat half the cookie with chocolate frosting and the other half with the white frosting. Set on waxed paper until frosting hardens.

@rainy wrote:

@chigirl777 wrote:

When I hear the n-word, I am not offended on behalf of all black people. I am offended on behalf of all people.

That's very PC and noble of you, but I tend to not get my knickers in a knot and get offended on behalf of civilization over something that the people directly involved aren't even offended over. So many people express feigned moral outrage over things like this and ironically don't even have one black person in their life they could call a true friend (not saying you don't).

What difference does it make if someone has a black friend, gay friend, Muslim friend, etc in their lives? Offensive is offensive. Just because I'm not black doesn't mean the n-word isn't offensive to me, and just because I'm gay doesn't mean it's not offensive when another gay person uses the word "queer." So yes, I am "directly involved in it." Do I get to play now or am I just still feigning moral outrage?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2015 02:22PM by chigirl777.

I'm neither black, gay, or Muslim. As a matter of fact, in most settings I wouldn't be considered a minority at all. I think that if two people of any type of group are friends and want to refer to each other by what many would consider an ethnic slur it's none of my business. However, it's NEVER appropriate in a business setting.

@chigirl777 wrote:

What difference does it make if someone has a black friend, gay friend, Muslim friend, etc in their lives? Offensive is offensive. Just because I'm not black doesn't mean the n-word isn't offensive to me, and just because I'm gay doesn't mean it's not offensive when another gay person uses the word "queer." So yes, I am "directly involved in it." Do I get to play now or am I just still feigning moral outrage?

chigirl - I agree that not everyone in a particular group feels the same way about particular words (or anything for that matter), but I disagree that "offensive is offensive". What offends some people doesn't necessarily offend other people. Also, I was speaking generally and was not making any assumptions about your race, orientation, etc. If you choose to upset yourself over certain words, that is certainly your choice. I think other factors are important.

Sybil - thanks for the cookie. :-)

@dspeakes wrote:

What Eric did was attach the end of one sentence to the beginning of the following sentence. I think he misread the paragraph, got upset, was sloppy in transcribing it, and then ranted against what he thought I said.

I don't think he did it deliberately. . . . .

dspeakes, that was an extremely generous and unexpected response to the misquote. As of now I believe you're mistaken and I believe it was deliberate. If and when we see an apology and a retraction I'll agree it was all a misunderstanding. You're good at handling the ongoing harassment. If we were playing the Art of War, you'd win.

The quote box didn't work in the above post. My comments were included in the quote box.



Mod note: Fixed it for you.

The "N" word: a contemptuous term for a black or dark-skinned person.

Fag or faggot: pieces of firewood. Used to burn homosexuals alive in the old days.

I find those words offensive and it is not acceptable anywhere, especially in the business world. That salesman should be let go, IMO.

It's amazing how many use words without realizing the history of them.

I admit, it's hard to know what language to use to describe any minority. What offends some, doesn't offend others. That is obvious from reading the posts in this thread. However, I don't know of anyone in my circle of gay, black, straight, Hispanic, gay AND Hispanic, Jewish, Catholic, gay AND Catholic, Muslim, German, Polish, Native American, black, etc friends whose eyes wouldn't widen at hearing the word "fag" or "queer" or the n-word.

We will have to agree to disagree, but in general if you're not sure whether a moniker is offensive or not, it probably is, at least to some people. Why take the chance? Just because some gay people use "queer" and some black people use the n-word doesn't make it any less offensive to anyone else. In fact, it may be even more so, because it could be perceived as hypocritical.

I think the big issue is the context here. I personally hate the n-word and hearing from a salesman would piss me off to no end and make me avoid that store like the plague. The shop would lose my business forever. I would probably tell my friends to avoid the store and if I was an actual customer and not a mystery shopper that day I would likely post the unfortunate incident to Facebook. That is what the client is looking to learn. That the crappy attitude and loose lips of an employee are losing them business. Are there people who would be ok with this language...maybe. But since the salesperson didn't know the shopper at all he would have no idea if this would be offensive.
As a female I have a couple of very close friends who can probably call me "b*tch" and get away with it, especially if I am having a bad day. However if I heard a male associate refer to females by this term I would be irritated. In a professional environment the associate should err on the side of professional and avoid any possibly contentious language. I'm confused on how the race of another individual would even come up innocently in a shop. It seems that the language used would have been different if the shopper was African American and that is never ok. Being lily-white myself I sometimes find people using derogatory terms with me thinking that it is ok because I am not black. Sorry, but I'm not looking to enter the "whitey" club with you or looking to bond over your predjudices.

Y'all need to chill for real

P.S. OP what did you end up doing?

@dixiewhiskey wrote:

Y'all need to chill for real

P.S. OP what did you end up doing?

This thread is hysterical. So many so-called professionals behaving badly. It's my daily comic relief.

I am waiting for a target employee to return from lunch so I can shop them... I was just sitting here reading the ----storm. Can't believe what happened since I posted on the first page lol

@VickyS wrote:

not looking to enter the "whitey" club.

I'm laughing really hard at this right now.. People are looking at me all funny...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2015 06:25PM by dixiewhiskey.