It is not a caricature of mystery shopping, it is loss prevention being portrayed as mystery shopping.

I didn't read the credits closely enough to say the fired "employees" were actors. If not before, then they would have to sign a release before it could air. Don't know if SAG gets involved or not, but that would require they join the union and also be paid scale.

The BES employees are all the same because apparently that is a specialized division which is probably smaller and it makes more sense to use the same employees on every sting because once their faces become known they may not be able to participate in any more operations.

The show seems to have been reworked just a bit since the pilot and I think Irene auditioned for the pilot.

It is definitely about loss prevention. I have yet to see any real mystery shopping. If the client is faking a loss, the detectives are actors and the subject is one also, what is the point ? I wasn't planning on watching a fake show.

Do we know for sure it is faked at this point? Or maybe recreated based on actual operations? It certainly seems fake. Maybe if I take a few minutes away from looking for Pineapple Mojito recipes I can do some research, LOL!

Well, I know it's fake. I've done my research as I already said and several websites are reporting that the show is fake. The restaurants and owners are real (some have already been featured on Food Network shows like Triple D) but everything else is scripted and unreal.

I've been trying to find information on it and there is nothing concrete. A lot of people saying it's fake with no real proof. I said I believe it's fake, it still would be nice to have confirmation. No doubt some of the things depicted have actually happened and it would not be a surprise to find out they were re-enactments so why not just say so?

The most interesting thing I found were some comments where an attorney in California talked about being at a restaurant with a client when Gordon Ramsey and the Kitchen Nightmares crew came in to film. He explained how the film crew handled it when he and his guest did not want to sign the releases, keeping their table out of shots, blurring the face of his client when he was caught on camera going to the restroom, etc. Those that did sign releases were treated to a free meal. I really hope it was AFTER Gordon cleaned up the place!

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not a caricature of mystery shopping, it is
> loss prevention being portrayed as mystery
> shopping.
>
> I didn't read the credits closely enough to say
> the fired "employees" were actors. If not before,
> then they would have to sign a release before it
> could air. Don't know if SAG gets involved or not,
> but that would require they join the union and
> also be paid scale.

Another MSC owner brought up an excellent point about whether the video could be used to fire someone or just as a training tool if the "MSers" weren't PIs with special loss prevention training. There could be legal issues if they weren't and the bartender wasn't an actor and was fired.

> The BES employees are all the same because
> apparently that is a specialized division which is
> probably smaller and it makes more sense to use
> the same employees on every sting because once
> their faces become known they may not be able to
> participate in any more operations.

My take from what I read was they aren't BES employees but ICs. I could be wrong though. That was just an assumption I made.

Hi,
My name is Chelsea and I personally know quite a bit about the show "Mystery Dinners" Charles Stiles is the Owner and President of a mystery shopping service company called Businees Evaluation Services. This company has been around for years and years bringing joy and success to many different companies. The reason that Charles Stiles was chosen by the Food Network to do this show was because of his creativity, success, credibility and work ethic.

Charles Stiles is a fantastic man who has a passion for helping others succeed in business and customer service. This show is in fact filmed to where the waitresses, bartenders, bar backs, hostess’s, etc. are uninformed of their presence nor do they know that they are cameras present. I personally enjoy myself and am constantly on edge wondering what will happen next when I watch the show, if it's not your thing that is totally acceptable but please do not sit and bash a show in which you are ill-educated on and aren't sure if the places named are in fact businesses. Someone mentioned that they looked up Mauves bar and found Mauve's Residentials, you did find it. That’s like saying I'm going to Vons vs. I am going to Vons Grocery Store. It's the same thing just not long and drawn out. If you would like to see if Mauve's is a true bar please visit one of the links I've simply taken straight from google and browse around yourself. Also listed at the bottom is the Toll-Free number that you can call in order to sign up with Charles Stiles Mystery Shopping Company.

* [www.mysteryshopperservices.com]

www.maevesresiduals.com/
Or GOOGLE the restaurants name,

Also you will see on YELP that there are pictures of the bar and you can see that it is in fact the same place.
[www.yelp.com]


I hope this helps some of you that were just curious about the show and I hope you know that you can go to any of your favorite web browsers and search for anything and everything. People bring ideas and theories, but when you can see the information and the evidence that YOU personally saw with your own eyes vs. "hear say" you'll find yourself more fulfilled and satisfied with your information rather than second guessing it.

Well that certainly makes everything clear as mud. First, most of us are familiar with BES and many have worked for the company. Second, your username is cstiles and the company President is Charles Stiles and yet you say you are on the edge of your seat every week. Are you associated with BES or not? Third, if we feel like bashing a TV show on the forum that really is okay. Fourth, I for one know how to use Google. It was where I did some investigating and reported what I found.

As far as the sources you named being proof positive or hearsay, the jury is still out. I'm not sure what evidence is available.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2012 05:03AM by LisaSTL.

Well there we have it!

cstiles Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Charles Stiles is a fantastic man

LisaSTL, you do have to get a sag card, I was told that when doing the first one, and they pay for it...you cannot act on T.V. without one. I must say having been in on the first floor, this final show is a heap better than the original, and took a couple years in development. I find it entertaining, not
real in the sense of what we do, but another side of mystery shopping.
Feedback (to me) from someone involved in the project is a plus, as I am interested in how things are done, having been with an MSC that wasn't chosen,
the experience was interesting, and fun, I have no reason to bash it, since this thread was written, we all have a choice to say our experiences, positive and negative, though this show doesn't show waht we actually do, I find it interesting, but am not an addited watcher.

I saw the bar as I go to that city often, it is a down home Irish bar, a little on the rough side.....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2012 07:02PM by Irene_L.A..

Irene my friend. Would you please take a look at my name as posted and make a wee little change for me I wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea.

Well CStiles doesn't stand for Charles Stiles, it stands for Chelsea Stiles as is states in the introduction.

Yes I am his daughter and yes I am affiliated with Business Evaluation Services. I wasn't saying that you can't bash on a T.V. show, your more than welcome to do so and evidently not only is no one stopping you there are people supplying websites, forums, blogs , etc. just to do so.
I was simply saying that if you’re going to, please at least bring facts and personal opinions to the table. The business is all about people’s perception and how they felt while in that store, in that restaurant, etc. That is exactly what we do at B.E.S. If you feel like passing a judgment whether it be positive or negative you should make it a judgment not a fact (i.e. I FEEL like the show is fake vs. THIS SHOW IS completely fake) One states a fact the other establishes an opinion. The show is in fact about true occurrences and true businesses and situations so all I ask is that you not falsify facts.

P.S. I wasn't stating you weren't intelligent enough to use Google. I was simply stating that Google has anything and everything available there and if you would really like to know the answer to something, one of the best ways to get information on that matter is going to a search engine and asking away. I am trying not to offend anyone yet still explain that some of these allegations are faults.
Pardon me for stating my opinions and my facts as you all of you freely do. I believe that this forum was in fact created for just that as it shall be used in that manner. I also ask you to think about the fact that you are talking about my father and his reputation and that most people wouldn’t be taking your thoughts and feeling into consideration as you Don’t with mine.

Thank you so much for reading my entry and hopefully perceiving it in a positive manner as it is meant to be. I hope you all enjoy the rest of your afternoon.

The standard is for people who are representing a company to identify themselves and their position within the company.

If you will read back through this thread you will see that we were never "bashing" BES. We were, with good reason, distinguishing between this type of operation and the traditional mystery shop. A traditional mystery shop would never offer good TV viewing. I for one was questioning whether these are staged, re-enacted or filmed as they happen. I did use Google to try to find out more information and reported the lack of concrete information available without wading through a lot of speculation.

Personally, I'm more concerned with the Food Network. After being a loyal fan for years, I'm frustrated that this type of programming has taken over for shows about, let me see, food!

Huh?

You didn't mention you were Chelsea Stiles in your first post.

Neither did you mention Charles Stiles was your father.

You also didn't mention your were affiliated with Business Evaluation Services.



cstiles Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well CStiles doesn't stand for Charles Stiles, it
> stands for Chelsea Stiles as is states in the
> introduction.
>
> Yes I am his daughter and yes I am affiliated
> with Business Evaluation Services.

@dwater - This is her first line, and you will note that her post was not edited....and yes, the show was 'bashed' throughout the forum without actual knowledge. Including sarcasm at the poster.

"Hi,
My name is Chelsea and I personally know quite a bit about the show "Mystery Dinners" Charles Stiles is the Owner and President of a mystery shopping service company called Businees Evaluation Services."

With all due respect re-reading your quote doesn't seem to contradict anything I wrote.

In my opinion there is a definite lack of disclosure on who she is, her relationship with Charles Stiles and her connection to BES.

I think that kind of info is pretty important when offering an opinion/attacking the critics.

Her claims in the 2nd post about caring about her feelings because Charles Stiles is her father are silly considering nobody knew he was her father until she mentioned it in the 2nd post.

Personally I watched one show and in my opinion parts of the show looked fake or staged. ( I think the term is "assisted reality")

Obviously I have no idea but I fully understand those who think it looks odd.


Chix Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @dwater - This is her first line, and you will
> note that her post was not edited....and yes, the
> show was 'bashed' throughout the forum without
> actual knowledge. Including sarcasm at the
> poster.
>
> "Hi,
> My name is Chelsea and I personally know quite a
> bit about the show "Mystery Dinners" Charles
> Stiles is the Owner and President of a mystery
> shopping service company called Businees
> Evaluation Services."

I will say that I don't think there is ANY reality show that is 100% unscripted. Why do you think reality TV employs script writers?

Chelsea claims, "The show is in fact about true occurrences and true businesses and situations..." I believe that is true. Clearly the show is based on an actual business and BES is a real, and good, MSC (They were actually the company I did my first shop for!). I would seriously doubt that everything you see on the show is candid or that all people in the shot are unaware of the recording taking place, however.

Is this show a good depiction of mystery shopping? Shoppers do not seem to think so. Is it entertaining? Let's see where the ratings end up and if it continues.

I think that most of us are pretty well aware of the rules regarding recording others without their permission and CA is a 2-party consent state, with a particularly strict precedent abut firing bar employees over shopper reports, so that would make it very difficult to shoot candid scenes.


One last question and no disrespect to BES is meant by this; Why would a Hollywood production use a MSC from the central coast of CA that doesn't particularly specialize in bar/restaurant shops for this show? I mean, there is a CA MSC that specializes in bar integrity shops, has a PI license and has hundreds of shops each month. There's also another MSC that has all the trendiest bars and clubs in the major cites.

I'm guessing it's because the big corporate clients would want nothing to do with this show or the potential for a bad rep it may bring, and the other MSCs are busy being just that....MSCs. IS BES looking to move more into these types of clients? I'd be curious to see what occurs with their available shops in the future.

Hi Steve

I basically agree with everything you wrote its just interesting that in her first post Chelsea Stiles made the following clear statement
-----------------------------------------------
"This show is in fact filmed to where the waitresses, bartenders, bar backs, hostess’s, etc. are uninformed of their presence nor do they know that they are cameras present. "
-----------------------------------------------


SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will say that I don't think there is ANY reality
> show that is 100% unscripted. Why do you think
> reality TV employs script writers?
>
> Chelsea claims, "The show is in fact about true
> occurrences and true businesses and situations..."
> I believe that is true. Clearly the show is
> based on an actual business and BES is a real, and
> good, MSC (They were actually the company I did my
> first shop for!). I would seriously doubt that
> everything you see on the show is candid or that
> all people in the shot are unaware of the
> recording taking place, however.
>
> Is this show a good depiction of mystery shopping?
> Shoppers do not seem to think so. Is it
> entertaining? Let's see where the ratings end up
> and if it continues.
>
> I think that most of us are pretty well aware of
> the rules regarding recording others without their
> permission and CA is a 2-party consent state, with
> a particularly strict precedent abut firing bar
> employees over shopper reports, so that would make
> it very difficult to shoot candid scenes.
>
>
> One last question and no disrespect to BES is
> meant by this; Why would a Hollywood production
> use a MSC from the central coast of CA that
> doesn't particularly specialize in bar/restaurant
> shops for this show? I mean, there is a CA MSC
> that specializes in bar integrity shops, has a PI
> license and has hundreds of shops each month.
> There's also another MSC that has all the
> trendiest bars and clubs in the major cites.
>
> I'm guessing it's because the big corporate
> clients would want nothing to do with this show or
> the potential for a bad rep it may bring, and the
> other MSCs are busy being just that....MSCs. IS
> BES looking to move more into these types of
> clients? I'd be curious to see what occurs with
> their available shops in the future.

dwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Steve
>
> I basically agree with everything you wrote its
> just interesting that in her first post Chelsea
> Stiles made the following clear statement
> -----------------------------------------------
> "This show is in fact filmed to where the
> waitresses, bartenders, bar backs, hostess’s, etc.
> are uninformed of their presence nor do they know
> that they are cameras present. "
> -----------------------------------------------

I found that interesting as well.

I'm assuming if that's the case the employees must sign a waiver that they could be recorded while at work. I know those are common.

Obviously at some point the employees have agreed to have their image on TV. Most restaurant service staff anywhere near LA are aspiring actors anyway, so it's probably not hard to get them to comply in that case.

Security cameras in bars/restaurants are the norm, but they usually cannot record audio. A smart business owner could word their employment agreement so the employee is agreeing to allow both audio and video.

OK Chelsea, as a first time viewer, I have to say that having your Dad as the investigator and seeing you flirting and getting hit on is not a good idea. He kept saying OMG that is my daughter he is hitting on. That is why in a business venue you do not have relatives investigating, because they will be emotionally involved. You let him smell your hair and said OK That is entrapment.
What restaurant has that many video camerars in that many areas? None.
Again, as a viewer, which I assume you want, it all seemed faked or edited or exagerated.
And BTW I would never have a hostess dressed in extremely tight and short clothes. That is entirely unprofessional and I know of no restaurant owner that would approve this attire. Just tacky and you know it.

I'm not sure where CA got dragged into this. So far, all the episodes are in AZ. And, again, this is not mystery SHOPPING. It is mystery DINERS. It is a service provided by BES for restaurant (no other industry) owners/managers who already know there's a problem with the staff.

The job for BES is to determine what is actually happening and who is doing it. As far as the "tacky" outfit Chelsea wore, that, too, was part of the "test" - they suspected the manager of deliberately choosing employees by their looks, not resumes. Of course, it's tacky - that's the idea! To prove what they already suspected the manager was doing - hiring completely unqualified and unprofessional women based on appearance.

The cameras are all placed throughout the restaurant by BES temporarily for this purpose - this is explained during the show. As for professional actors or re-enactments, I have no idea. About this channel no longer being about food? I'd rather listen to fingernails on a chalkboard than Paula Deen yammer on about mayonnaise and butter. Rachel Ray is about as full of herself as anyone can be. Ina Garten is an insomnia cure. And all of them are ongoing reruns with no new shows. At least Mystery DINERS is new.

If you don't like it, don't watch it. You'll never convince me "Snookie" existed before some TV exec created her! Reality TV? Whatever.

Lisa4984 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure where CA got dragged into this.

I made an assumption that some of the episodes would take place in CA since the MSC was based here and offers a lot of CA shops. I may be wrong in that case. My bad.

Perhaps that's how they get around the tough laws for shopping in CA. AZ....Tough on immigrants, easy on MSCs :^)

LOL.

So now we find out that Chelsea actually featured in the show.

I guess when she said all the waitresses didn't know what was going on, she didn't include herself or anyone (?!) else paid by the show?

Call me skeptical but I'm thinking there might be some other facts left out too.

Chelsea please!!!!
I understand wanting to stick up for your family's business but your lying, either that or Daddy is pullia big sham over your eyes too by saying the show is "real". I can think of many examples but ill go straight to the episode I saw last night where a bartender at the pizza place was feeding his friends from: messed up orders then he steals a keg of beer a half keg of beer from the cooler with his friend and goes outside to sell it to one of the mystery shopper employees. everyone knows that case that are in a cooler at a restaurant does not have a tap on it like you find at a house party the boy and his friend bring the keg out of the cooler and you clearly see the taps laying on top of the keg and the plastic seal on top of the keg. The camera follows them out the door and amazingly as they switch cameras to view them on the other side of the door the keg is tapped and the seal is nowhere. Hahah..comon, we are not as stupid as you think my dear. They stopped film, took off the cap. Tapped the keg with the house party type tap, then began shooting again as the kids all gather outside to sell the keg quick but being as we the viewers are so stupid the producers make it appear as a keg party is going to happen out back. Im cancelling the tivo setting for this fake worthless show. one thing I hate is when the TV show is being portrayed as a reality show when in fact is scripted is fake and you mam are a liar.


cstiles Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
> My name is Chelsea and I personally know quite
> a bit about the show "Mystery Dinners" Charles
> Stiles is the Owner and President of a mystery
> shopping service company called Businees
> Evaluation Services. This company has been around
> for years and years bringing joy and success to
> many different companies. The reason that Charles
> Stiles was chosen by the Food Network to do this
> show was because of his creativity, success,
> credibility and work ethic.
>
> Charles Stiles is a fantastic man who has a
> passion for helping others succeed in business and
> customer service. This show is in fact filmed to
> where the waitresses, bartenders, bar backs,
> hostess’s, etc. are uninformed of their presence
> nor do they know that they are cameras present. I
> personally enjoy myself and am constantly on edge
> wondering what will happen next when I watch the
> show, if it's not your thing that is totally
> acceptable but please do not sit and bash a show
> in which you are ill-educated on and aren't sure
> if the places named are in fact businesses.
> Someone mentioned that they looked up Mauves bar
> and found Mauve's Residentials, you did find it.
> That’s like saying I'm going to Vons vs. I am
> going to Vons Grocery Store. It's the same thing
> just not long and drawn out. If you would like to
> see if Mauve's is a true bar please visit one of
> the links I've simply taken straight from google
> and browse around yourself. Also listed at the
> bottom is the Toll-Free number that you can call
> in order to sign up with Charles Stiles Mystery
> Shopping Company.
>
> * [www.mysteryshopperservices.com]
>
> www.maevesresiduals.com/
> Or GOOGLE the restaurants name,
>
> Also you will see on YELP that there are pictures
> of the bar and you can see that it is in fact the
> same place.
> [www.yelp.com]
> ty
>
>
> I hope this helps some of you that were just
> curious about the show and I hope you know that
> you can go to any of your favorite web browsers
> and search for anything and everything. People
> bring ideas and theories, but when you can see the
> information and the evidence that YOU personally
> saw with your own eyes vs. "hear say" you'll find
> yourself more fulfilled and satisfied with your
> information rather than second guessing it.

I ran into Charles Stiles a couple of days ago. He was on vacation with his wife in Napa Valley and we happened to stay in the same hotel. Over breakfast in the courtyard we chatted a bit. He's a nice and friendly guy, pretty much the same person in real life as you see on TV. Since we're more familiar with the area we told him a bit about local restaurants and wineries worth visiting. My girlfriend asked him how the staff responds when he walks into a restaurant as a guest. He said sometimes they get pretty nervous and he has to convince them that he's just visiting as a customer.

We spoke a little about the show, he said that the ratings are good and they're getting ready to shoot the next season. For those who claim that's it's all fake, you have to realize that this is a professionally produced TV show. It has to look and sound good, which would not be possible with just a couple of hidden cams and microphones. So they have to use professional equipment, and may have to reenact certain scenes to get the right shot. But the restaurant and the owner are real.

If you call this show fake, then anything you see on TV is fake. When you watch a cooking show and they put a dish into the oven, and 3 minutes later after the commercial break it's ready, that's also fake. It's not the same dish. They make 2 or 3 identical dishes and prepare them in advance, so they don't have to sit there and wait 45 minutes for it to cook during the show. And anytime you see something that is supposed to be shot inside a house it is fake, it's just a set in a studio with only one or two walls. In a real house there's simply not enough room for all the equipment. And when you hear people laugh during a sitcom it's a prerecorded sound track.

If you like the show like we do, enjoy it. And if you don't like it, watch something else. Just realize that nothing you see on TV is "real". Even on the news they pick the people they interview, tell them what to say, and may have to do a couple of takes and some editing to get it right.

pfshopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I ran into Charles Stiles a couple of days ago. He
> was on vacation with his wife in Napa Valley and
> we happened to stay in the same hotel. Over
> breakfast in the courtyard we chatted a bit. He's
> a nice and friendly guy, pretty much the same
> person in real life as you see on TV. Since we're
> more familiar with the area we told him a bit
> about local restaurants and wineries worth
> visiting. My girlfriend asked him how the staff
> responds when he walks into a restaurant as a
> guest. He said sometimes they get pretty nervous
> and he has to convince them that he's just
> visiting as a customer.
>
> We spoke a little about the show, he said that the
> ratings are good and they're getting ready to
> shoot the next season. For those who claim that's
> it's all fake, you have to realize that this is a
> professionally produced TV show. It has to look
> and sound good, which would not be possible with
> just a couple of hidden cams and microphones. So
> they have to use professional equipment, and may
> have to reenact certain scenes to get the right
> shot. But the restaurant and the owner are real.
>
> If you call this show fake, then anything you see
> on TV is fake. When you watch a cooking show and
> they put a dish into the oven, and 3 minutes later
> after the commercial break it's ready, that's also
> fake. It's not the same dish. They make 2 or 3
> identical dishes and prepare them in advance, so
> they don't have to sit there and wait 45 minutes
> for it to cook during the show. And anytime you
> see something that is supposed to be shot inside a
> house it is fake, it's just a set in a studio with
> only one or two walls. In a real house there's
> simply not enough room for all the equipment. And
> when you hear people laugh during a sitcom it's a
> prerecorded sound track.
>
> If you like the show like we do, enjoy it. And if
> you don't like it, watch something else. Just
> realize that nothing you see on TV is "real". Even
> on the news they pick the people they interview,
> tell them what to say, and may have to do a couple
> of takes and some editing to get it right.

The show is total Garbage.

You had to quote the *entire* post just to say that? Really?? I scroll past boatloads of quoted text just for a one-liner that wasn't even worth taking the time to read, as statements like that add nothing to a conversation.

Anyway, I've only watched the show a few times, and it was sorta/kinda entertaining. Not sure how much was 'set up', or not. Crazy things happen for real all the time.

But it certainly isn't mystery shopping, by any stretch; and not really even mystery dining. It's closer to the kind of thing Gordon Ramsey or that hotel guy does, just with an 'undercover' aspect.

Bottom line is, the show is PRESENTED as complete reality, provides no disclaimer that it is actually re-enactments of events that happened (if it even is) and because of the BAD acting is obviously fake. Now, if you if you are ok with a supposedly honest business LYING to the general public on TV, then WHY would you believe a company like that would be honest when you hire them?

In the same way that FREE should be FREE and not FREE*, where marketers are able to make up their own definition of FREE by simply adding an asterisk and a footnote, MY opinion is that reality TV should be reality without calling it "reality" TV where whoever produces it can make their own definition of reality. It's like saying a LIE is not a lie if we simply define a lie differently for our circumstances. Stupid and after watching one episode, I knew it was fake and will not watch any more. And the only way that shows like this will STOP being made is if we as a public stand up and say, "I will not listen to you lying to me", and stop watching the show.

In fact, we don't even know that "cstiles" has ANY relation to Charles Stiles. Just because someone signs up for a forum and then presents themselves as someone, doesn't mean they are who they say they are. Cstiles, if in fact you ARE Chelsea Stiles, then prove it to us. Otherwise, stop lying.

I agree 100% that it is bad acting & anything other than in the moment situations. I especially liked the one where a bald guy was wearing an eye glass camera. Seriously, the wires were coming off the glasses, yet no one was curious about them....really??

My biggest concern is that they are giving away our secrets. I have invested a LOT of money buying video shop equipment. The PV500 , eye glass camera & MP3 camera are what make me unique to me area. Every time they point them out & show what they look like, as well as where the camera is located, it puts my work in jeopardy. Since they are not very stylish to begin with, I really do not want people realizing what I am up to. As far as competition, I try to NOT give out too much info when people ask how to get started. Sorry but I'm doing it to make money & unless you live in LA, good paying jobs are tough to find!!

I try to do as many Luxury locations combined with hotel shops to actually make some good extra money every month. People think it is all fun and games. But Luxury hotels, high end clothes & 4-5 star restaurant reports have to phenomenal to keep getting them. That is the part they are not prepared for. As you all know.....it's a whole lot of work with most often not great pay.