I know most of us need the money but I keep seeing shops that end up paying around $5-$10 an hour. Some barely cover gas. Some are just for a sandwich. Then when the schedulers get desparate the same shops can double or triple in their payments so it is obvious they are being compensated a lot more than the shoppers. I'm not suggesting a union or anything like that but I'm personally taking a stand and I hope other people follow along. Maybe that will raise our pay.

1. I will not start my car for less than $15 now. Gas costs money. Wear and tear on our cars cost money. No more $5-$9 shops.

2. No shops for just a sandwich.

3. This country has a minimum wage and so will I. If a shop is for $10, includes an hour of paperwork, a 15 minute visit to the company and gas to get their how much are we making an hour after expenses? $3? $5?

When I see some of these $3-$7 shops I think of lawnboys fighting among themselves to mow a lawn for $3.

Hey, Spree,

Basically thems the rules. If you don't like $3 shops, then leave them to the person who will take them. If enough people don't take those low paying shops, then they may change their pay rates, but not until then.

People do shops for different reasons, and I have personally picked up the three dollar shops just for kicks or I wanted to try a place out. If I feel that it is not worthwhile, then I simply leave them for someone else.

Since low paying shops are usually the easiest to perform, I will pick up a block of them in a day where 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5, etc. adds up. I can usually bang a lot of those easy shops out at a time.

Either way, I hear what you are saying though!!

I've come to the conclusion that the suckers doing all of the cheap shops are freeing up the dollars which make the big bonuses possible. I do quite well on an hourly basis, and that includes my driving and reporting time.

Mantis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've come to the conclusion that the suckers doing
> all of the cheap shops are freeing up the dollars
> which make the big bonuses possible. I do quite
> well on an hourly basis, and that includes my
> driving and reporting time.


That is an interesting point of view. I just figured that if people did not end up doing 30-60 minute long shops for $5-$7 dollars or for a sandwich that the schedulers would either raise the fee or add a bonus faster. Once they take the shops at such a low price they are setting the market rate at that low floor.

I recenetly only did a $10 shop because it had a $10 bonus. Before the $10 bonus it would come out to $10 pay for 80 minutes work (20 in store/60 on report) plus travel time plus gas. That has to be near or below minimum wage.

I think most people who do this for the money have long concluded that some jobs just arn't worth it.

Some of the gas stations that pay $10 (with no "gas back") are just not worth it.

What is interesting is that a large MSC has started adding money to all the gas stations in my area as its obvious that they can't get anyone to do them.

Lets say it takes 45+ mins to do a good job, you have 30 mins of downloading all the photos and writing the report.
Thats 75 mins for $10 without even adding traveling/printing/equipment expenses into the mix.

Compare that with some fastfood drive-thrus which are between $7-$9 where you have maybe 20 mins at the store and 10 mins filling out the simple report.

If people want to take jobs at way below min-wage there is nothing anyone can do.





spree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mantis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've come to the conclusion that the suckers
> doing
> > all of the cheap shops are freeing up the
> dollars
> > which make the big bonuses possible. I do
> quite
> > well on an hourly basis, and that includes my
> > driving and reporting time.
>
>
> That is an interesting point of view. I just
> figured that if people did not end up doing 30-60
> minute long shops for $5-$7 dollars or for a
> sandwich that the schedulers would either raise
> the fee or add a bonus faster. Once they take the
> shops at such a low price they are setting the
> market rate at that low floor.
>
> I recenetly only did a $10 shop because it had a
> $10 bonus. Before the $10 bonus it would come out
> to $10 pay for 80 minutes work (20 in store/60 on
> report) plus travel time plus gas. That has to be
> near or below minimum wage.

Hello Spree - This is an issue that doesn't go away. I can see more than one side of this. There are a lot of moderately priced jobs out there, and many of them don't pay as much as they should. On the other hand, why should they pay more when someone is willing to do them at a moderate price? We're looking at the way free enterprise works.

I'm busy this week, but I'm disappointed in the money. I'm doing what I could get rather than do nothing. So far, my week will require 4 days of work and will pay $326.91. That's not really enough for what I'm doing, but here's the thing. I can do it in four days and still have two available for other work plus a day off, and when I get done I'll have $326.91 I didn't have when I started even if I don't pick up anything else. I would NOT book every day at this kind of money. That would be shutting down my own options.

Some of that income will go for expenses, but not much. I drive a small 1999 economy car that's been paid off since 2001. On the open road, it gets close to 40 mpg. It was totaled in a hail storm, the insurance company paid me off, and I bought it back and fixed it up a little. I carry only liability insurance and repairs aren't required with any regularity. I'll drive it as long as it rolls.

I still have three days open. I could pick up some better shops that would increase my total for the week up to a decent level. BUT if I hadn't booked this $326.91 in moderate shops, I would never have had a shot at a good week. The low to moderately priced shops are the base of my whole program. Would I like for everything to pay better? Sure. Is that going to happen? Not likely.

We all have to decide on our "quit" point, the point below which we won't work. I know I have one because I regularly pass on some offers without even considering them, but those are really low. The only way I'd quit booking the moderate priced $10 - $15 shops would be if I had a full plate of better paying work.

I don't want to be harsh or unkind, but those who are not happy with this work at this money would really be better off moving on. This is not going to pay better. There is no reason for it to pay better, because there are tons of people willing to take these jobs as posted now. No matter what kind of improvement we see in the economy, we will always have the college students, the teachers during the summer, the retired and bored, and the underemployed who will be happy to do this and pick up a little money for their efforts. Business is competitive at every level. I'm trying to get money, the people I work for are trying to get money, and the people they work for are trying to get money.

I truly believe this is exactly what it is. What you see is what you get. There is nothing new under the sun. Etc Etc Etc. It is a waste of any individual's time to try to bring about changes in the pay scale in mystery shopping. The scale may go up a little or go down a little in response to economic variables, but the scale will not move as a result of efforts of one or a few individuals at the bottom of the mountain. Any energy marshalled toward efforts in that direction would be better spent finding a nine to five job.

326.91 in 1 weeks time nevermind 4 days doing this is great. I have worked my butt off in the last week and only got up to around $210. I wish I could do $326.91 in any week. My weeks are often closer to $100.

Guys I did not intend to tell anyone what the should or should not do. I was just telling people where I'm going to set my minimal standards> I never had any before reading a similar post from a shopper. Since that post made me think I hoped that my postmight make some people think where their own minimum pay line should be as well.

I remember when I first started shopping I was so excited that someone would pay me back for doing the shop. I took the low paying shops becasue I did not know any better. Now I see new people coming to the board without a clue and asking where to start. Instead of saying..."don't shop this one or that one..." they say..."Oh NO! I'm not helping you." and then that person goes and take those $3.00 gas shops and so on.

It should also be taken into consideration the amount of effort for the shop. So, if a five dollar shop takes me five minutes of visit, ten minutes to report then it is worth the while to book several. You're not going to be reporting for hours on end for the cheap-y shops.

Whereas, for example, a fifty dollar apartment shop (ooo, high fee) takes an hour and a half including drive time and touring, etc. then takes two to five hours to report (depending), then you really aren't making that much more ultimately than the six - five dollar shop on a per hour basis.

If one is spending hours on a report for a five dollar shop, then there is an issue...lol

Zero chance of me ever doing a single digit paying shop on it's own. This past month I did 3 shops that paid under 10, just because I was helping one of my route companies and being 'nice' since I was already in the area. The vast majority of shops I do are over 15 a shop with over half 20+.

Excluding video shops, my shop average this month as of now will fall into the 20-23 a shop average. It was one of my best shopping months in awhile.

If anyone needs unscheduled shops done this week last minute, that will go up.

So, I did 13 $4.00 shops that took me all of 10 minutes each plus 2 minutes each to report...All in all, much better time wise than the $18 gas shops that took me over 30 minutes on site and over an hour to report with all the photos and issues to describe. We do what makes sense and "cents." Some low paying shops work fine for me when they're on my route. I'll take that $52.00 for no-mind assignments any day. We only sell ourselves short when we take the low paying and tedious shops that require way too much time and effort. Experience is the key and everyone needs to find that experience for themselves. Hence, the low paying shops will be taken by the unsuspecting..usually once or twice..and then they sit and get bonused. All we can do is watch and wait to see the dropped shops or orphans if they pay enough to consider. I've also done attractive fee shops ($100+) that have required way too much effort and narrative and since I labor over narratives, it turns out to be unattractive in the long run. So, it all depends on the job and amount of effort. To drive 15-20 miles for one $4.00 shop would be insane, but to stick it in between several other shops or on the way somewhere is a no brainer.

techman01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Excluding video shops, my shop average this month
> as of now will fall into the 20-23 a shop average.
> It was one of my best shopping months in awhile.
>
> If anyone needs unscheduled shops done this week
> last minute, that will go up.

That's one of my 2 monthly goals: $1000/month (excluding most reimbursements) and $20/shop average.

I have been starting to hold out more and ask for bonus's as well.

There was a $10 shop this weekend that I asked for $12 bonus on because that is what I felt my time was worth. I got it.

There was a food shop that I would not ask for until it went up to $16.

I'm not asking for a lot. I just want to feel I make at least $10 an hour for my time.

MDavisnowell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Spree - This is an issue that doesn't go
> away. I can see more than one side of this.
> There are a lot of moderately priced jobs out
> there, and many of them don't pay as much as they
> should. On the other hand, why should they pay
> more when someone is willing to do them at a
> moderate price? We're looking at the way free
> enterprise works.
>
> I'm busy this week, but I'm disappointed in the
> money. I'm doing what I could get rather than do
> nothing. So far, my week will require 4 days of
> work and will pay $326.91. That's not really
> enough for what I'm doing, but here's the thing.
> I can do it in four days and still have two
> available for other work plus a day off, and when
> I get done I'll have $326.91 I didn't have when I
> started even if I don't pick up anything else. I
> would NOT book every day at this kind of money.
> That would be shutting down my own options.
>
> Some of that income will go for expenses, but not
> much. I drive a small 1999 economy car that's
> been paid off since 2001. On the open road, it
> gets close to 40 mpg. It was totaled in a hail
> storm, the insurance company paid me off, and I
> bought it back and fixed it up a little. I carry
> only liability insurance and repairs aren't
> required with any regularity. I'll drive it as
> long as it rolls.
>
> I still have three days open. I could pick up
> some better shops that would increase my total for
> the week up to a decent level. BUT if I hadn't
> booked this $326.91 in moderate shops, I would
> never have had a shot at a good week. The low to
> moderately priced shops are the base of my whole
> program. Would I like for everything to pay
> better? Sure. Is that going to happen? Not
> likely.
>
> We all have to decide on our "quit" point, the
> point below which we won't work. I know I have
> one because I regularly pass on some offers
> without even considering them, but those are
> really low. The only way I'd quit booking the
> moderate priced $10 - $15 shops would be if I had
> a full plate of better paying work.
>
> I don't want to be harsh or unkind, but those who
> are not happy with this work at this money would
> really be better off moving on. This is not going
> to pay better. There is no reason for it to pay
> better, because there are tons of people willing
> to take these jobs as posted now. No matter what
> kind of improvement we see in the economy, we will
> always have the college students, the teachers
> during the summer, the retired and bored, and the
> underemployed who will be happy to do this and
> pick up a little money for their efforts.
> Business is competitive at every level. I'm
> trying to get money, the people I work for are
> trying to get money, and the people they work for
> are trying to get money.
>
> I truly believe this is exactly what it is. What
> you see is what you get. There is nothing new
> under the sun. Etc Etc Etc. It is a waste of any
> individual's time to try to bring about changes in
> the pay scale in mystery shopping. The scale may
> go up a little or go down a little in response to
> economic variables, but the scale will not move as
> a result of efforts of one or a few individuals at
> the bottom of the mountain. Any energy marshalled
> toward efforts in that direction would be better
> spent finding a nine to five job.


Cynical indeed.

If all of that was true, the MSC's wouldn't be shaking in their skivvies that the govt is investigating their abusive pay practices and whether they are or are not hiring "Independent Contractors".

Let's consider that the government is not looking at this because the government is concerned we don't make minimum wage. Minimum wage is not the issue. The issue is whether mystery shoppers should be considered independent contractors. The government (IRS) is concerned because they may be missing out on collecting taxes. The income that concerns them is their own.

By hiring legitimate independent contractors instead of employees, companies avoid the payment of employers taxes and all the associated record keeping and reporting required at state and local levels. By choosing to be an independent contractor, I have the freedom to work for many different companies and control my own schedule and assignments. In return for that, I take on the responsibility of operating a small business of my own.

Being an employee working for one company for a guaranteed minimum wage is not attractive. There are plenty of minimum wage jobs already available, and any mystery shopper who wants one can get one somewhere else. If we ever have to work for just one MSC as an employee, this work will lose its charm. I like to think that the harder I work, the more I make. That doesn't happen with a regular job.

You say I am cynical. A better word would be realistic.

I agree with the above posting. Thank you MDavis Knows Well )
I've been doing some reading on independent contractor vs employee, small business, taxes, etc.
Some of the above posts make it sound almost like we should be in a union. So we could fight unfair working conditions and low wages...
In which case, we would be employees - and breaking our contracts.
I like my job thank you.
I'm in control.
There are so many providers and so many jobs out there that to quibble about a few $5 jobs seems ridiculous.
Especially since we are under no obligation to accept any job.

Another thing that I find fascinating is the idea that a relatively new shopper might think that they deserve a "raise" right off the hop.

spree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been starting to hold out more and ask for
> bonus's as well.
>
> There was a $10 shop this weekend that I asked for
> $12 bonus on because that is what I felt my time
> was worth. I got it.
>
> There was a food shop that I would not ask for
> until it went up to $16.
>
> I'm not asking for a lot. I just want to feel I
> make at least $10 an hour for my time.

You have the ability to make however much hourly payment that you want to make. Just pick and choose your jobs and take only those jobs that allow you to make $10+ an hour.

It does annoy me when I see the $4.00 shops for a certain company getting snatched up by new shoppers. The reason is this....they are costing all of us money as this company will raise the pay up, up, & up!! AARRRGGGHHH! I find this soo frustrating. I've had shops that I've been doing for the last year or so that always paid well.($15-$30) Now, people are picking them up for $4.00. Wish these folks would find this forum!!!

As usual, I concur with Mary; a very well stated post.

We all work pretty hard on our jobs. There is nothing wrong with us discussing how we should not sell ourselves short for very low pay such as $6 an hour or for a sandwich alone too often. It doesn't make us greedy. We do not want to become the independent contractors version of factory workers in China. I like being my own boss. I just prefer to do it at atleast $10-$12 an hour after gas or other expenses. We are on the same side of the labor equation. The MSC will always try to keep the pay as low as possible. When I see sandwich shops bonused up $50 it shows how much room there is in the pay spread.

I guess it depends on what you want out of it.

Generally, I only take shops within 5 miles of home, and that only pay at least $10. That's what it takes for me to put on pants and leave the house.

However, I'll take low-paying or reimbursement-only shops if I was going to be doing it anyway. So if hubby and I are going out for dinner anyway, I'll pick up a reimbursement-only dinner. If I know I want to spend my Saturday afternoon reading a book in a coffee shop, yes I will take that $4 + reimbursement coffee shop assignment.

MDavisnowell Wrote:
>
> You say I am cynical. A better word would be
> realistic.

No, MDavis,

you are not a realist, you are a defeatist. This is not a question of being a 9-5 employee or an IC. It is a question of demanding proper pay for the work you do as a IC mystery shopper.

As long as you and others like you accept the status quo shoved at you by a MSC
nothing will change with regard to being paid the worth of the shop you are doing.

And by the way, you are not an Independent Contractor nor are any of us as long
as we are told what to wear, when to do the job, how to the job, what questions to ask, and given a form with pre-arranged questions to answer as a report. Now that's realistic and as long as the MSC's do that, they are violating the law, and the government is entitled to their money,

Shoppingalong - Thank you for pointing out I am a defeatist. I was unaware of that, and am always willing to learn. The viewpoints of others are interesting and often informative. I prefer to keep an open mind and walk all the way around a situation so I can see several angles, as it gives me a deeper perspective and a more useful knowledge base.

I deliberately chose to do this work. If I did not like the status quo, I would choose to do something different. Because I am free to accept or decline projects, it must follow that I am satisfied with items on my schedule, all of which I selected myself after being fully advised of the details. I am sure you are equally independent.

You state you are not an independent contractor, so I assume you have stopped signing the independent contractor agreements and you have therefore stopped shopping/auditing. I can tell from the tone of your post that you are upset over this situation. The government (IRS) and the MSCs will work this out. In the meantime, I continue my business as an independent contractor with no plans to become involved in their tax tiff.

As far as your assertion that the MSCs are violating the law, my personal opinion on that issue is that if they are violating the law, so are we. If we are not independent contractors, we should not sign contracts agreeing that we are independent contractors. Could that not be interpreted as fraud?

I see no potential rewards resulting from participating in a bottomless pit of discussion on whether I am an independent contractor or an employee, or on whether I will or will not be paid a minimum wage. I also see no potential rewards for trying to change the system from the bottom of the mountain.

One of my favorite topics....I did really low paying shops when infirst started. Now I only do shops that are worthwhile to me. I ask for bonuses whenever possible. I am not afraid to ask because I am willing to walk away from a job. As far as being an IC....every one knows my opinion (and my CPA's) on this. But I am not going to rehash this whole argument. V WHEN the IRS gets around to this it will be the MSCs who will have to deal with their practices.

Got a question, how much is a 10 minute job and a 10 minute report really worth, is it "hard work" to quote a poster, $7.00 for 20 minutes, this work isn't excatly brain surgery. I'm doing Whole Foods, so I then go across the street to the mall and pick up a 7.00 job+5.00 reimbursement, of which I need a box of staionary, so I got that free, I then go home have lunch and spend 20 minutes on report, I'd be doing nothing anyway. I feel productive and how can I expect more...however, the three dollar jobs are where I draw the line, wouldn't be worth the gas money to bother, that's a total insult.
Everyone must determine their worth and set their own standards, Mary said,
you cannot control this industry, (it is out of control). The best is you do your own scheduling, work from home, and search out those high paying jobs, they come along as do the low paying ones...to each his own!!

Nobody is forced to do any shopper jobs but that doesnt mean we should accept jobs that pay below minimum wage. A lot of people are not forced to work for $2 a day in some poor countries as well but when the labor sets the market price of their labor at such a low rate they willingly take those jobs also.

I'm a 100% free market guy but that does not mean we should undervalue our services to the point that they are the bare minimum. I work very hard. I do a great job in my shops. I think my work is valuable. All people are saying is if you value your work than you should consider holding out for pay that you feel is commensorate with the value of your work. If all you think your work is worth is a sandwich than that is fine. Nobody is saying we should get paid $100 an hour but given the time and resources it is not unreasonable to hope for $10-$14 an hour after expenses.

Mary, GREAT answer. I can think of nothing constructive to add except my total agreement. I will add that Trolls are posters who post angry, agumentative posts showing little common sense and indulge in name-calling in an effort to stir things up.

Calling people any names including trolls is uncalled for on this board in my opinion.

This board is here for us to help each other not attack each other.

Name-calling is repulsive. I totally agree. My post called no one a troll but it gave my definition of a troll. Hopefully, posters will think twice and post once. There is no reason for an angry, name-calling post designed to argue and stir things up.

AustinMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Name-calling is repulsive. I totally agree. My
> post called no one a troll but it gave my
> definition of a troll. Hopefully, posters will
> think twice and post once. There is no reason for
> an angry, name-calling post designed to argue and
> stir things up.


Ridiculous .

If you are referring to my DISCUSSION with MD that he/she is a defeatist rather than a realist, as he/she claims, if you think that's name calling, you have a problem.


Troll ? Angry ? Stirring things up ? Cetainly, name calling is repulsive, unless its you who is doing it right?

And Who is it calling names ??

You think saying to a person " You are a defeatist" is name calling?


nonsense. I am a person who stands up for what's right and the law.


If the colonists had had the attitude of acceptance of the Status Quo , there would be no America. We'd still be a territory/colony of England,

Change doesn't happen by itself.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2012 10:06PM by shoppinalong.