I'm a believer in the free market but are we selling our services way too low?
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This thread is recyled, reminds me of a hamster, round and round we go, with no positive result, as in MSing...it is what it is, if you don't like it, get
a job with Ins. and benefits.
a job with Ins. and benefits.
Live consciously....
I dont recall ever calling anyone a troll on here or anywhere.
I do recall someone called a strange post an odd name and I asked why they used that name.
So Austin, if you can find where I called someone a troll or any name, by all means, point me to it. When you refer to an MSC and the discussion about PayQuicker I do recall saying that the person seemed to have an axe to grind,
But I dont appreciate being called names by you because I am commenting to a person on what they have posted, which has nothing to do with you except that you
feel the need to stick up for your buddies when you misconstrue a serious discussion as an attack.
I'm not misconstruing your posts to me as an attack though, am I.
Tell you what. Since we dont have an ignore function on here, control yourself and dont answer my posts, with or without name calling at me. Thank you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2012 10:10PM by shoppinalong.
I do recall someone called a strange post an odd name and I asked why they used that name.
So Austin, if you can find where I called someone a troll or any name, by all means, point me to it. When you refer to an MSC and the discussion about PayQuicker I do recall saying that the person seemed to have an axe to grind,
But I dont appreciate being called names by you because I am commenting to a person on what they have posted, which has nothing to do with you except that you
feel the need to stick up for your buddies when you misconstrue a serious discussion as an attack.
I'm not misconstruing your posts to me as an attack though, am I.
Tell you what. Since we dont have an ignore function on here, control yourself and dont answer my posts, with or without name calling at me. Thank you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2012 10:10PM by shoppinalong.
OK Folks. Return to the thread as posted or this thread will have to go.
Personal Attacks are against the rules. Lets keep it civil and to the point...
Personal Attacks are against the rules. Lets keep it civil and to the point...
Shopping Bama and parts of Georgia.
I'm still learning 24/7.
I'm still learning 24/7.
As suggested by mrcomputer101, let's get back to the original thread before we lose the spool. The question was, "Are we selling our services way too low?"
That depends on your standard. If you want to make $10 to $12 an hour, or $18 to $20, then those are the jobs you should be looking for. I don't have a problem with your refusing to take anything that pays less. We all know what we want.
This works real well for me. I'm satisfied that I'm not selling my services too low, but I'm always on the lookout for another solid project. If someone else thinks I sell my services too low, OK, I can live with that.
That depends on your standard. If you want to make $10 to $12 an hour, or $18 to $20, then those are the jobs you should be looking for. I don't have a problem with your refusing to take anything that pays less. We all know what we want.
This works real well for me. I'm satisfied that I'm not selling my services too low, but I'm always on the lookout for another solid project. If someone else thinks I sell my services too low, OK, I can live with that.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
Tolerance for differing points of view is one of the things that attracted me to this forum.
In answer to the OP, some MSCs certainly place too low a value on our services, others do not. I don't feel that I place too low a value on my skills and take only jobs which I feel are fair compensation. This is one of the benefits of being an Independent Contractor and a small business owner. While there are certainly some companies and some jobs which push the envelope, there is no doubt in my mind that we are in fact ICs. It is why I will also refuse those jobs where my understanding of being an IC differs from that of a company.
Realizing that we are limited in what we can do to effect any major changes is not at all cynical. The sheer number of mystery shoppers just in the U.S. is overwhelming. Add to that the transient nature of the business and it is not difficult to see it is an uphill battle. For every shopper who finds a forum there must be 1,000 who never do. Many shoppers won't even feel a need to look for something like this until they have an issue.
The most important thing any of us can do is to pay it forward and take every opportunity to educate other shoppers if and when they find us. That is what most people on this board are doing already. Giving of their time and their knowledge with no compensation, just the desire to help others find their way.
Realizing that we are limited in what we can do to effect any major changes is not at all cynical. The sheer number of mystery shoppers just in the U.S. is overwhelming. Add to that the transient nature of the business and it is not difficult to see it is an uphill battle. For every shopper who finds a forum there must be 1,000 who never do. Many shoppers won't even feel a need to look for something like this until they have an issue.
The most important thing any of us can do is to pay it forward and take every opportunity to educate other shoppers if and when they find us. That is what most people on this board are doing already. Giving of their time and their knowledge with no compensation, just the desire to help others find their way.
Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
I want to chat more about selling services too low. I'm against selling services too low, and I don't do it. I may not be happy sometimes with the amount of money I'm getting for a particular day of work, but I accepted the work with full knowledge of all particulars so it can't be too low, even though it may not be completely satisfying.
One of the misconceptions that is rampant in this business is that MSCs ought to pay us enough money to compensate us from the time we leave the house until we get back, and also compensate us for all vehicle expenses involved. Let's talk about that. When I had a regular job, I had to commute back and forth to work and I had to pay all the commuting expenses with no reimbursement from my employer. Since by choice I live in the boonies, I've always had to drive on average 60 to 100 miles a day to hold down a good job. To do this, I had to provide the car and all operating expenses, and I had to make the drive on my own time. I got no tax break from the IRS on the vehicle expenses. They were mine, all mine.
Unless the MSC is asking me to make a long trip for an orphan shop about to hit the wall, my vehicle expenses are not their problem. Neither is my driving time. I figure the driving time and vehicle expenses are on me, just like they would be for anyone working a regular job.
When I had a regular job, the deal was I was supposed to arrive at X hour, work until XX hour and break for lunch (lunch unpaid time) until XXX hour, and then work to closing at XXXX hour. The employer did not care what I did between XXXX when I left and X when I returned the following morning. That was my nut to crack on my own. If I had a total drive time of 1 1/2 hours and a lunch period of 1 hour, I had dead time unpaid of 2 1/2 hours a day to work 8 for which I was paid, so I had 10 1/2 hours total in the day's work. My pay (when I wasn't salaried) was figured at so much an hour for 8 hours. It was not figured at so much an hour for 10 1/2 hours, and I never heard such a thought even mentioned. The pay for the day would be set and I could not make it be more by working faster or harder or smarter. This is looking worse and worse and my new career in shopping/auditing is looking better and better.
Doing this, I can make extreme personal efforts and I can reap the rewards of my own efforts. I have freedom and flexibility and can take a month off if I like without asking anyone else if it's OK. I can make a fair amount of money for a fair amount of part time work, selected and scheduled at my discretion. I get great tax benefits. I enjoy the pleasure of an interesting and constantly changing stream of work.
If you are selling your services too low, the problem lies with you and not with the MSCs. Instead of believing that the MSCs should just pay you more to cover your inefficient habits, look to yourself to figure out how to make more money doing this.
There are some steps you can take to improve your situation. If you have not already done so, shop long enough to get some experience. Continue to sign up with more companies from time to time. Educate yourself and become comfortable with your job skills. Organize yourself to reach a high level of efficiency when job searching, scheduling, driving, shopping, and reporting. Do not accept substandard performance from yourself. It cuts into your income.
Thinking about how to be more effective will pay off in the long run for all of us. I will start beating up on the MSCs about how they run their businesses when I have learned to manage my own with flawless execution.
One of the misconceptions that is rampant in this business is that MSCs ought to pay us enough money to compensate us from the time we leave the house until we get back, and also compensate us for all vehicle expenses involved. Let's talk about that. When I had a regular job, I had to commute back and forth to work and I had to pay all the commuting expenses with no reimbursement from my employer. Since by choice I live in the boonies, I've always had to drive on average 60 to 100 miles a day to hold down a good job. To do this, I had to provide the car and all operating expenses, and I had to make the drive on my own time. I got no tax break from the IRS on the vehicle expenses. They were mine, all mine.
Unless the MSC is asking me to make a long trip for an orphan shop about to hit the wall, my vehicle expenses are not their problem. Neither is my driving time. I figure the driving time and vehicle expenses are on me, just like they would be for anyone working a regular job.
When I had a regular job, the deal was I was supposed to arrive at X hour, work until XX hour and break for lunch (lunch unpaid time) until XXX hour, and then work to closing at XXXX hour. The employer did not care what I did between XXXX when I left and X when I returned the following morning. That was my nut to crack on my own. If I had a total drive time of 1 1/2 hours and a lunch period of 1 hour, I had dead time unpaid of 2 1/2 hours a day to work 8 for which I was paid, so I had 10 1/2 hours total in the day's work. My pay (when I wasn't salaried) was figured at so much an hour for 8 hours. It was not figured at so much an hour for 10 1/2 hours, and I never heard such a thought even mentioned. The pay for the day would be set and I could not make it be more by working faster or harder or smarter. This is looking worse and worse and my new career in shopping/auditing is looking better and better.
Doing this, I can make extreme personal efforts and I can reap the rewards of my own efforts. I have freedom and flexibility and can take a month off if I like without asking anyone else if it's OK. I can make a fair amount of money for a fair amount of part time work, selected and scheduled at my discretion. I get great tax benefits. I enjoy the pleasure of an interesting and constantly changing stream of work.
If you are selling your services too low, the problem lies with you and not with the MSCs. Instead of believing that the MSCs should just pay you more to cover your inefficient habits, look to yourself to figure out how to make more money doing this.
There are some steps you can take to improve your situation. If you have not already done so, shop long enough to get some experience. Continue to sign up with more companies from time to time. Educate yourself and become comfortable with your job skills. Organize yourself to reach a high level of efficiency when job searching, scheduling, driving, shopping, and reporting. Do not accept substandard performance from yourself. It cuts into your income.
Thinking about how to be more effective will pay off in the long run for all of us. I will start beating up on the MSCs about how they run their businesses when I have learned to manage my own with flawless execution.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
I am very effective and efficient with my business. With that said I work hard. I give the MSC's 100% effort in any job I take. To say hoping for fair compensation is beating up on the MSC is at best misgueided in my opinion.
I have employed people in 2 different business's in the past. I knew when I was getting more out of my labor than I paid and less out of my labor than I paid. You are comparing being an employee to a independant contractor with your driving requirements. It is not only an apples to oranges comparion but a misplaced comparison. While you had to drive an hour to work some people might drive 5 minutes to work as an employee. They also got half their SS costs paid by their employer as well as possible other benefits such as healthcare.
That is not what this discussion is really about. All people are saying is that some not all MSC will pay continue to pay low fees if people undervalue their work. There are people in China that would do all your shopping jobs for $2 a day. Does that make it right? That is why we have labor protection laws in this country.
If you want to set your value low that is your choice but others are speaking out trying to encourage each other to hold out for a fair compensation for each shop. Some mystery shoppers may be willing to be the equivalent of a $2 a day chinese factory worker. Others are not so we are discussing what we feel is fair compensation and if there is anything we can do to encourage fair compensation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 06:00PM by spree.
I have employed people in 2 different business's in the past. I knew when I was getting more out of my labor than I paid and less out of my labor than I paid. You are comparing being an employee to a independant contractor with your driving requirements. It is not only an apples to oranges comparion but a misplaced comparison. While you had to drive an hour to work some people might drive 5 minutes to work as an employee. They also got half their SS costs paid by their employer as well as possible other benefits such as healthcare.
That is not what this discussion is really about. All people are saying is that some not all MSC will pay continue to pay low fees if people undervalue their work. There are people in China that would do all your shopping jobs for $2 a day. Does that make it right? That is why we have labor protection laws in this country.
If you want to set your value low that is your choice but others are speaking out trying to encourage each other to hold out for a fair compensation for each shop. Some mystery shoppers may be willing to be the equivalent of a $2 a day chinese factory worker. Others are not so we are discussing what we feel is fair compensation and if there is anything we can do to encourage fair compensation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 06:00PM by spree.
Labor protection laws are for employees. I am not an employee.
You say I am comparing apples and oranges. Maybe so. It makes as much sense as talking about what's going on in China, and how much a Chinese person would charge to do my work. $2 might be fair in China. How does that relate to this?
Yes, if I wanted to be an employee the employer would pay 1/2 of my FICA taxes. What a stupendous deal. As it is, I have to pay my own FICA entirely (15% of income after deductions), but I get a tax credit on the self employment tax, and I get to deduct my travel expenses from my before tax income. The deduction plus the tax credit is certainly worth far more to me than the payment of 7 1/2 per cent of my income, or 1/2 of my FICA. Good luck on getting paid health insurance.
I'm for all of us trying to improve conditions that affect us. I wish everyone well in that effort, and would be a fool not to realize as the sea goes up, my boat floats higher. That said, when a shop reaches the offer I want, I'm taking it. Isn't that what you're talking about? I'm holding out for the money to be right for me before I book anything. That is what we're talking about here, isn't it?
I believe there is a lot we can do at the personal level to improve our overall income. As independent contractors, the responsibility for performance and results lies with us. Should we not strive to improve ourselves so that we minimize our output of time and energy, and maximize our results and income? Is that not what we want?
Looking over my spreadsheets for the last couple of years and this year, I don't see any $2 days. I find even the suggestion that I or any other shopper would work for $2 day ludicrous. If you're working for $2 days, I suggest you look at your own operation. If you're not, then why are you talking about $2 days? Who is this person who is working for $2? Not me.
Like Pogo said, I have met the enemy and he is me. The MSCs are not the enemy. If we believe the people we work for are the enemy, we need to work elsewhere.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 07:19PM by MDavisnowell.
You say I am comparing apples and oranges. Maybe so. It makes as much sense as talking about what's going on in China, and how much a Chinese person would charge to do my work. $2 might be fair in China. How does that relate to this?
Yes, if I wanted to be an employee the employer would pay 1/2 of my FICA taxes. What a stupendous deal. As it is, I have to pay my own FICA entirely (15% of income after deductions), but I get a tax credit on the self employment tax, and I get to deduct my travel expenses from my before tax income. The deduction plus the tax credit is certainly worth far more to me than the payment of 7 1/2 per cent of my income, or 1/2 of my FICA. Good luck on getting paid health insurance.
I'm for all of us trying to improve conditions that affect us. I wish everyone well in that effort, and would be a fool not to realize as the sea goes up, my boat floats higher. That said, when a shop reaches the offer I want, I'm taking it. Isn't that what you're talking about? I'm holding out for the money to be right for me before I book anything. That is what we're talking about here, isn't it?
I believe there is a lot we can do at the personal level to improve our overall income. As independent contractors, the responsibility for performance and results lies with us. Should we not strive to improve ourselves so that we minimize our output of time and energy, and maximize our results and income? Is that not what we want?
Looking over my spreadsheets for the last couple of years and this year, I don't see any $2 days. I find even the suggestion that I or any other shopper would work for $2 day ludicrous. If you're working for $2 days, I suggest you look at your own operation. If you're not, then why are you talking about $2 days? Who is this person who is working for $2? Not me.
Like Pogo said, I have met the enemy and he is me. The MSCs are not the enemy. If we believe the people we work for are the enemy, we need to work elsewhere.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 07:19PM by MDavisnowell.
When I first started out, my eyes lit up at just the idea that I would get free food, meals even, for me and my friends and/or family. I still get excited and take shops for brand new clients before the fees go up just so we can check them out. I have learned a ton from this board, and am not so doe-eyed anymore, but still doing it for free food and some extra cash. So....I may be part of the problem. I ain't in it solely for the money.
MDavisnowell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Labor protection laws are for employees. I am not
> an employee.
>
> You say I am comparing apples and oranges. Maybe
> so. It makes as much sense as talking about
> what's going on in China, and how much a Chinese
> person would charge to do my work. $2 might be
> fair in China. How does that relate to this?
>
> Yes, if I wanted to be an employee the employer
> would pay 1/2 of my FICA taxes. What a stupendous
> deal. As it is, I have to pay my own FICA
> entirely (15% of income after deductions), but I
> get a tax credit on the self employment tax, and I
> get to deduct my travel expenses from my before
> tax income. The deduction plus the tax credit is
> certainly worth far more to me than the payment of
> 7 1/2 per cent of my income, or 1/2 of my FICA.
> Good luck on getting paid health insurance.
>
>
> I'm for all of us trying to improve conditions
> that affect us. I wish everyone well in that
> effort, and would be a fool not to realize as the
> sea goes up, my boat floats higher. That said,
> when a shop reaches the offer I want, I'm taking
> it. Isn't that what you're talking about? I'm
> holding out for the money to be right for me
> before I book anything. That is what we're
> talking about here, isn't it?
>
> I believe there is a lot we can do at the personal
> level to improve our overall income. As
> independent contractors, the responsibility for
> performance and results lies with us. Should we
> not strive to improve ourselves so that we
> minimize our output of time and energy, and
> maximize our results and income? Is that not what
> we want?
>
> Looking over my spreadsheets for the last couple
> of years and this year, I don't see any $2 days. I
> find even the suggestion that I or any other
> shopper would work for $2 day ludicrous. If you're
> working for $2 days, I suggest you look at your
> own operation. If you're not, then why are you
> talking about $2 days? Who is this person who is
> working for $2? Not me.
>
> Like Pogo said, I have met the enemy and he is me.
> The MSCs are not the enemy. If we believe the
> people we work for are the enemy, we need to work
> elsewhere.
I did not say that the MSC were the enemy nor that you or I literally worked for $2 a day. Why twist my words? As far as your enemy statement goes you are making the people in this thread that are just seeking a discussion about not lowering the value of our work your enemy for no logical reason. I'm sure I work just as hard an efficient as you do. You are no better or worse than I am. This thread is for people that want to keep compensation for our work above a low value. We are not your enemy. If you disagree with us having this discussion that is your prerogative but it doesn't take away our right to discuss the matter.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Labor protection laws are for employees. I am not
> an employee.
>
> You say I am comparing apples and oranges. Maybe
> so. It makes as much sense as talking about
> what's going on in China, and how much a Chinese
> person would charge to do my work. $2 might be
> fair in China. How does that relate to this?
>
> Yes, if I wanted to be an employee the employer
> would pay 1/2 of my FICA taxes. What a stupendous
> deal. As it is, I have to pay my own FICA
> entirely (15% of income after deductions), but I
> get a tax credit on the self employment tax, and I
> get to deduct my travel expenses from my before
> tax income. The deduction plus the tax credit is
> certainly worth far more to me than the payment of
> 7 1/2 per cent of my income, or 1/2 of my FICA.
> Good luck on getting paid health insurance.
>
>
> I'm for all of us trying to improve conditions
> that affect us. I wish everyone well in that
> effort, and would be a fool not to realize as the
> sea goes up, my boat floats higher. That said,
> when a shop reaches the offer I want, I'm taking
> it. Isn't that what you're talking about? I'm
> holding out for the money to be right for me
> before I book anything. That is what we're
> talking about here, isn't it?
>
> I believe there is a lot we can do at the personal
> level to improve our overall income. As
> independent contractors, the responsibility for
> performance and results lies with us. Should we
> not strive to improve ourselves so that we
> minimize our output of time and energy, and
> maximize our results and income? Is that not what
> we want?
>
> Looking over my spreadsheets for the last couple
> of years and this year, I don't see any $2 days. I
> find even the suggestion that I or any other
> shopper would work for $2 day ludicrous. If you're
> working for $2 days, I suggest you look at your
> own operation. If you're not, then why are you
> talking about $2 days? Who is this person who is
> working for $2? Not me.
>
> Like Pogo said, I have met the enemy and he is me.
> The MSCs are not the enemy. If we believe the
> people we work for are the enemy, we need to work
> elsewhere.
I did not say that the MSC were the enemy nor that you or I literally worked for $2 a day. Why twist my words? As far as your enemy statement goes you are making the people in this thread that are just seeking a discussion about not lowering the value of our work your enemy for no logical reason. I'm sure I work just as hard an efficient as you do. You are no better or worse than I am. This thread is for people that want to keep compensation for our work above a low value. We are not your enemy. If you disagree with us having this discussion that is your prerogative but it doesn't take away our right to discuss the matter.
Spree, you're right. You should get to have this discussion. I agree you should be able to refrain from taking low paying shops, and you should be able to encourage others to also not take low paying shops.
Experienced shoppers already do this. New shoppers learn quickly.
Apparently I have failed to make myself clear. My position is that we can improve our income level by improving our skills, as well as by seeking out the most desirable shops.
You have misunderstood what I said. I did not say you said the MSCs are the enemy. I said:
"Like Pogo said, I have met the enemy and he is me. The MSCs are not the enemy. If we believe the people we work for are the enemy, we need to work elsewhere."
I thought that paragraph stood alone, but I guess not. I'll explain further.
What I meant was, that in the operation of my independent contractor business, I am the enemy to be dealt with. The MSCs are not the problem. I am the problem, and I need to improve myself and do a better job if I want more money. I should not expect the MSCs to give me more money because I have personal inadequacies and cannot figure out how to make this work. I guess I should have said that instead of putting in a Pogo quote.
I did not say that you work for $2 a day, but you implied I work for $2 a day. I quote your post:
"There are people in China that would do all your shopping jobs for $2 a day."
Well, I guess so, but I hope their car floats.
Experienced shoppers already do this. New shoppers learn quickly.
Apparently I have failed to make myself clear. My position is that we can improve our income level by improving our skills, as well as by seeking out the most desirable shops.
You have misunderstood what I said. I did not say you said the MSCs are the enemy. I said:
"Like Pogo said, I have met the enemy and he is me. The MSCs are not the enemy. If we believe the people we work for are the enemy, we need to work elsewhere."
I thought that paragraph stood alone, but I guess not. I'll explain further.
What I meant was, that in the operation of my independent contractor business, I am the enemy to be dealt with. The MSCs are not the problem. I am the problem, and I need to improve myself and do a better job if I want more money. I should not expect the MSCs to give me more money because I have personal inadequacies and cannot figure out how to make this work. I guess I should have said that instead of putting in a Pogo quote.
I did not say that you work for $2 a day, but you implied I work for $2 a day. I quote your post:
"There are people in China that would do all your shopping jobs for $2 a day."
Well, I guess so, but I hope their car floats.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
My saying
"There are people in China that would do all your shopping jobs for $2 a day."
Is not me saying or implying that you actually work for $2 a day. It is pointing out that just because a somebody somewhere will work for $2 a day or $2 a shop (an example of people taking very low wages) doesnt mean we should just accept it as the market rate. That we should put a higher value on our time and effort.
It was trying to point out that we should not all fight over breadcrumbs even with some lettuce and cheese mixed in. That if we value the work we do than we should not take jobs that pay under that value.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 11:13PM by spree.
"There are people in China that would do all your shopping jobs for $2 a day."
Is not me saying or implying that you actually work for $2 a day. It is pointing out that just because a somebody somewhere will work for $2 a day or $2 a shop (an example of people taking very low wages) doesnt mean we should just accept it as the market rate. That we should put a higher value on our time and effort.
It was trying to point out that we should not all fight over breadcrumbs even with some lettuce and cheese mixed in. That if we value the work we do than we should not take jobs that pay under that value.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 11:13PM by spree.
Having read the above, I have these comments:
I did have an employer--a state government--that claimed that what I did off work impacted them. When I questioned the trainer on my first day of work, the answer was kind of lame. Maybe the way employees drive in their own cars to and from work would affect them.
The car dealership charges a fortune to fix my car. I called about a small part. The parts department employee quoted a price for the entire assembly, saying I couldn't get individual parts of it. My neighbor used to be a mechanic. He said the parts guy is lying. So I went to a dealership in another town--while on assignment there--and ordered the part, which turned out to be a nut, especially for my make and model, for $1. The mechanic neighbor won't even have to put this one on for me. I can do that myself.
Maybe some of the mystery shopping companies are paying us amounts that they really should rethink. I offer my neighbor a good price. He says he doesn't gouge like the dealerships. Maybe we are looking for scams in the wrong places. Maybe some of these MSP's really have a scam going and nobody realizes it because they really do have assignments they "pay" for! The others offer a good payment. Even my beautician has gone up in price. Neither she nor my neighbor are employees of mine.
I did have an employer--a state government--that claimed that what I did off work impacted them. When I questioned the trainer on my first day of work, the answer was kind of lame. Maybe the way employees drive in their own cars to and from work would affect them.
The car dealership charges a fortune to fix my car. I called about a small part. The parts department employee quoted a price for the entire assembly, saying I couldn't get individual parts of it. My neighbor used to be a mechanic. He said the parts guy is lying. So I went to a dealership in another town--while on assignment there--and ordered the part, which turned out to be a nut, especially for my make and model, for $1. The mechanic neighbor won't even have to put this one on for me. I can do that myself.
Maybe some of the mystery shopping companies are paying us amounts that they really should rethink. I offer my neighbor a good price. He says he doesn't gouge like the dealerships. Maybe we are looking for scams in the wrong places. Maybe some of these MSP's really have a scam going and nobody realizes it because they really do have assignments they "pay" for! The others offer a good payment. Even my beautician has gone up in price. Neither she nor my neighbor are employees of mine.
Ok no one in China can do our jobs. They will not be going from Beijing to Ohio to do a shop. Our jobs are not exportable.
I know and love the POGO quote - Walt Kelly right?
Bottom line, take the jobs you want and leave the rest alone. Yes someone will take them so what. At the point that they no longer can get shoppers for this price they will either go out of biz or change thier pay structure. Move on, is my advice.
I know and love the POGO quote - Walt Kelly right?
Bottom line, take the jobs you want and leave the rest alone. Yes someone will take them so what. At the point that they no longer can get shoppers for this price they will either go out of biz or change thier pay structure. Move on, is my advice.
Cyn - Exactly. Perfect. Thank you.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
cynb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok no one in China can do our jobs. They will not
> be going from Beijing to Ohio to do a shop. Our
> jobs are not exportable.
> I know and love the POGO quote - Walt Kelly
> right?
> Bottom line, take the jobs you want and leave the
> rest alone. Yes someone will take them so what.
> At the point that they no longer can get shoppers
> for this price they will either go out of biz or
> change thier pay structure. Move on, is my
> advice.
I can't believe you two are acting like I literally meant some $2 a day Chinese factory workers would come to the USA and take your shopper jobs. It was an analogy to discuss what is right and fair. It obviously was not meant to be taken literally. Way to hijack a thread. Instead of telling us to move on maybe you two should allow other people to discuss a valid subject without trying to shut it down. It sounds like you are upset that some shoppers would like to make sure the compensation for their work matches the value of that work. My only question is why. At this point it seems like you want to keep pay low and shoppers quiet. I will no longer reply to you in this thread because I question your motives.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2012 12:32PM by spree.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok no one in China can do our jobs. They will not
> be going from Beijing to Ohio to do a shop. Our
> jobs are not exportable.
> I know and love the POGO quote - Walt Kelly
> right?
> Bottom line, take the jobs you want and leave the
> rest alone. Yes someone will take them so what.
> At the point that they no longer can get shoppers
> for this price they will either go out of biz or
> change thier pay structure. Move on, is my
> advice.
I can't believe you two are acting like I literally meant some $2 a day Chinese factory workers would come to the USA and take your shopper jobs. It was an analogy to discuss what is right and fair. It obviously was not meant to be taken literally. Way to hijack a thread. Instead of telling us to move on maybe you two should allow other people to discuss a valid subject without trying to shut it down. It sounds like you are upset that some shoppers would like to make sure the compensation for their work matches the value of that work. My only question is why. At this point it seems like you want to keep pay low and shoppers quiet. I will no longer reply to you in this thread because I question your motives.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2012 12:32PM by spree.
Of course, China doesn't have anything to do with this. That's exactly the point. The China analogy is not applicable.
Low paying jobs are being taken by new shoppers breaking into the business. The new shoppers require extra attention and detailed coaching from the MSCs. They start somewhere near the bottom because they certainly can't start at the top with no experience, no reputation, and no credibility. When they get their feet on the ground and develop a feel for how things work, they'll look for better paying assignments. This will make room at the bottom for more new shoppers, and the cycle goes on.
When you post on this forum and tell us not to take the low paying jobs so we can force the MSCs to pay more, you are addressing a choir that's been singing for a while. We already selectively choose the better assignments on a day to day basis as a matter of common sense and self-preservation. This leaves the lower paying assignments for the new shoppers.
You accuse me and Cyn of trying to close down this thread. No way. I love this thread. It gives me a platform to write on a subject near and dear: How to make more money by doing a better job. I don't tire of trying to help others make it doing this. I lack the decades of experience that many shoppers on this forum have, and I lack their wealth of knowledge and their deep understanding of how this all works. But I do have a couple of years and some work under my belt. I've spent countless hours on this forum learning from others who have been willing to share, and they have set a sterling example as to what this forum can be and how we can help each other.
I do not want to close down this thread. I have an interest in keeping it going, so I can keep writing about how to make more money by doing a better job and selectively choosing better paying assignments. I want to help myself by helping others, and when I say others I include both shoppers and MSCs. Can't make this work without 'em.
Low paying jobs are being taken by new shoppers breaking into the business. The new shoppers require extra attention and detailed coaching from the MSCs. They start somewhere near the bottom because they certainly can't start at the top with no experience, no reputation, and no credibility. When they get their feet on the ground and develop a feel for how things work, they'll look for better paying assignments. This will make room at the bottom for more new shoppers, and the cycle goes on.
When you post on this forum and tell us not to take the low paying jobs so we can force the MSCs to pay more, you are addressing a choir that's been singing for a while. We already selectively choose the better assignments on a day to day basis as a matter of common sense and self-preservation. This leaves the lower paying assignments for the new shoppers.
You accuse me and Cyn of trying to close down this thread. No way. I love this thread. It gives me a platform to write on a subject near and dear: How to make more money by doing a better job. I don't tire of trying to help others make it doing this. I lack the decades of experience that many shoppers on this forum have, and I lack their wealth of knowledge and their deep understanding of how this all works. But I do have a couple of years and some work under my belt. I've spent countless hours on this forum learning from others who have been willing to share, and they have set a sterling example as to what this forum can be and how we can help each other.
I do not want to close down this thread. I have an interest in keeping it going, so I can keep writing about how to make more money by doing a better job and selectively choosing better paying assignments. I want to help myself by helping others, and when I say others I include both shoppers and MSCs. Can't make this work without 'em.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
I'm very glad that this thread returned to the OP's original idea.
I've been MSing for 18 months now, and this is a topic that is near and dear to me.
I agree: novice MSers jump at the $10 two-employee Big Box electronics store. I certainly did. I've done 28 of them!
The last two months or so, with the help of this forum, I've learned how to maximize my earning potential while working p/t.
Basically, I'm signed up for 100+ companies now. So I can pick and choose the $30 jobs when they pop up.
I sat down and estimated that I make $20-25 an hour, 15 hours a week. I'm paying for my daughter's college tuition on MSing - she won't have any student loans when she graduates (she works, too).
It's a function of: (1) being motivated to make as much money in as little time as possible while (2) having fun doing work I self-select and (3) optimizing my performance by using checklists, a DVR, etc. (4) signing up with as many companies as my email in box can handle, so I can select the cream at the top of the MS jobs. Oh, and (5) looking out for #1 - me.
I remember ShopperBob posted something a few weeks ago - "I look out for Bob." I liked that. Most of us are female here on the boards, we are always trying to help out, make everyone happy, please the boss.
Doing MSing has taught me that I look out for Missy first and foremost. If I'm not happy, feeling overwhelmed, not making enough money - time for a change.
This forum helped me change the things I was doing wrong, and to learn how to do this. Absolutely invaluable!
I've been MSing for 18 months now, and this is a topic that is near and dear to me.
I agree: novice MSers jump at the $10 two-employee Big Box electronics store. I certainly did. I've done 28 of them!
The last two months or so, with the help of this forum, I've learned how to maximize my earning potential while working p/t.
Basically, I'm signed up for 100+ companies now. So I can pick and choose the $30 jobs when they pop up.
I sat down and estimated that I make $20-25 an hour, 15 hours a week. I'm paying for my daughter's college tuition on MSing - she won't have any student loans when she graduates (she works, too).
It's a function of: (1) being motivated to make as much money in as little time as possible while (2) having fun doing work I self-select and (3) optimizing my performance by using checklists, a DVR, etc. (4) signing up with as many companies as my email in box can handle, so I can select the cream at the top of the MS jobs. Oh, and (5) looking out for #1 - me.
I remember ShopperBob posted something a few weeks ago - "I look out for Bob." I liked that. Most of us are female here on the boards, we are always trying to help out, make everyone happy, please the boss.
Doing MSing has taught me that I look out for Missy first and foremost. If I'm not happy, feeling overwhelmed, not making enough money - time for a change.
This forum helped me change the things I was doing wrong, and to learn how to do this. Absolutely invaluable!
Thank you Missy. I'm really glad that some people understand what the thread is about and try to keep it on track. I really appreciate your post. I'm impressed that you can keep up with 100 companies. I have around 20 companies. I consider myself a pretty experienced shopper but I still can learn more from other posters such as yourself.
Spree -
I sat down one long snowy weekend and signed up for 60-70 companies for three days straight.
I just cut-and-pasted my writing sample, had my Microsoft Office auto-fill-in turned "on" to put in my home address, phone number and email - and went to town. Watched the entire first season of "Downton Abbey" and "Game of Thrones" while I was filling out the forms.
The emails DO get overwhelming sometimes, I admit. I have to be very rigorous about checking and deleting them every 3-4 hours, or I end up with 99 emails to sift through at the end of the day! I'm on a rural route this week through areas with zero cell coverage; when I enter civilization, I have 40-50 emails to go through in just a few hours!
But the advantages of this outweigh the negatives by far - - just like the MS company with 250,000 shoppers in its databank, I can pick and choose and not have to "settle" for a $9 sandwich shop.
That's the key to doing well, I think: making your stupid mistakes by grabbing the reimbursement-only shops as a rookie, then getting smart and expanding your horizons.
I sat down one long snowy weekend and signed up for 60-70 companies for three days straight.
I just cut-and-pasted my writing sample, had my Microsoft Office auto-fill-in turned "on" to put in my home address, phone number and email - and went to town. Watched the entire first season of "Downton Abbey" and "Game of Thrones" while I was filling out the forms.
The emails DO get overwhelming sometimes, I admit. I have to be very rigorous about checking and deleting them every 3-4 hours, or I end up with 99 emails to sift through at the end of the day! I'm on a rural route this week through areas with zero cell coverage; when I enter civilization, I have 40-50 emails to go through in just a few hours!
But the advantages of this outweigh the negatives by far - - just like the MS company with 250,000 shoppers in its databank, I can pick and choose and not have to "settle" for a $9 sandwich shop.
That's the key to doing well, I think: making your stupid mistakes by grabbing the reimbursement-only shops as a rookie, then getting smart and expanding your horizons.
Missy that is some great advice. I appreciate you taking the time to give it. I started shopping part time in 2011. I have been a pretty quick study with around 100 shops in the last 3 months alone but the more I learn from people such as yourself the more I can earn. I have tried to limit myself to the companies I know pay on time and are in my area but I would like to add around 10-20 more companies in the next month. Thanks again for your posts.
I have a printer that eats ink . . so I also include the cost of ink and paper to print out the paperwork, and my time to read the instructions, and my time to drive to and fro. And my time to scan the receipts and file the paperwork away. I won't eave the house for less than $12 to $15 unless I am getting a really good reimbursement.
Why is that the lowest paying MS companies also have the strictest rescheduling/cancellation policies?
Why is that the lowest paying MS companies also have the strictest rescheduling/cancellation policies?
****************************************************************************************************
I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
I applaud all of you, I too started out taking each and every shop that came my way, but recently I have been tracking my expenses (gas, time, meals) and I can stay at home and come out ahead. I do not except any shops for less than $15.00 and that’s the shops within 10-15 miles of my home, I'm fortune I live in a very small town with only one other competitor. What really pisses me off is the new shopping opportunities seem to offer a little more fee, but I have accepted a couple and been burned very badly. I will not use my credit card to cover the first shop expense ever again for little pay and @#$%& load of paper work. My recent experience was with Freeman Group, it was a stay overnight at a motel and report on the service, cleanliness, well @#$%& the place was a dump, so bad I went home and drove back the next morning. And that was in February and I still have not got paid.
It would be of great help to all shoppers if we could post our bad experiences on this site, so some other shopper doesn’t make the same mistakes.
It would be of great help to all shoppers if we could post our bad experiences on this site, so some other shopper doesn’t make the same mistakes.
I have stopped printing out paperwork, for the most part.
My printer was going through $40 in ink every 2-3 weeks. Ridiculous.
Instead, I save the paperwork as either a Word file or as a PDF.
If I need to refer to notes, I write them down by hand in my daily notebook.
Bic ballpoint ink is SO MUCH cheaper than my HP printer ink!
I've read before where injet printer's innk is the most expensive fluid on the planet. More costly than Chanel No. 5 per ounce!
My printer was going through $40 in ink every 2-3 weeks. Ridiculous.
Instead, I save the paperwork as either a Word file or as a PDF.
If I need to refer to notes, I write them down by hand in my daily notebook.
Bic ballpoint ink is SO MUCH cheaper than my HP printer ink!
I've read before where injet printer's innk is the most expensive fluid on the planet. More costly than Chanel No. 5 per ounce!
I don't even consider shops under $10 unless it's a donut shop that pays a commission and for a box of donuts. How could I refuse that? I do get annoyed when newer shoppers snatch up the $4 shops which I know will go up much higher if left alone.
Spree - one thing you mentioned is that because of bonuses it shows that they could be paying higher shop fees. Well... Except that people running an msc like profit too. Odd that you think you deserve more and they deserve less. We also have shops that show up with 5x or 10x bonuses, but that is far from the norm and usually the msc and/or the scheduler has a bonus they earn if they get xx% of shops filled. So, it makes sense that they would be willing to shell out $50 for the last two shops if their bonus warrants it.
spree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then when the schedulers get desparate
> the same shops can double or triple in their
> payments so it is obvious they are being
> compensated a lot more than the shoppers.
Bwah ha ha ha ha! Oh my! I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh. Well, yes, I do. But only because this is a common misconception with shoppers. Listen, whether you're on the MSC side or the shopper side, you are not rolling in the dough. The pay for this industry is not the best and there are many other independent contractor jobs out there that pay better. You can make decent money if you play your cards right...on either side of the fence. However, schedulers often make what shoppers make. Sometimes better. Sometimes worse. (Just another reason I'd never schedule.) Depends on the company, the client, the difficulty in getting the jobs assigned *and* completed, and the pay.
Bonuses, just FYI, for most MSCs come from a small amount companies have set aside each month to spend on hard to book places. Many companies don't have a lot of extra money to raise the pay of their jobs because they got the client at the lowest offered rate through a bidding war. The client wants the jobs done as cheaply as possible. If it gets to be too much, they'll cut their MSing programs so they can get the job done on the cheap. There are plenty of MSCs and shoppers who will perform the work for less than it's worth. That's a cold hard fact of the industry that won't ever change.
> 1. I will not start my car for less than $15 now.
> Gas costs money. Wear and tear on our cars cost
> money. No more $5-$9 shops.
>
> 2. No shops for just a sandwich.
>
> 3. This country has a minimum wage and so will I.
> If a shop is for $10, includes an hour of
> paperwork, a 15 minute visit to the company and
> gas to get their how much are we making an hour
> after expenses? $3? $5?
Perfect! We all have (or should have) our limits of what's acceptable to us. There will always be newbies or people who need the money more than they need the time who will do the shops for pennies. You're upset because gas is $4 a gallon and the prices haven't increased with the expense. I was upset when gas hit $3 a gallon and pretty much pulled out of doing most jobs back then. Add to it that many of the $10 jobs used to pay $15 or $20 ten years ago and that was enough for me to severely limit what jobs I would take. For the most part, a pay raise in this industry is a myth. There are those rare occurences but it's never anything in my neck of the woods, so I consider them the Big Foot of MSing. Lots of sightings, no proof. LOL
Now my reasons for shopping are much different. Since the bulk of my MSing money comes from editing, I don't have a lot of tax write-offs. I'll take that restaurant with the reimbursement that won't quite cover the requirements because it's a free meal and a tax deduction. Just did an amusement park shop for the free park tickets. I had to dole out my own money (tax deduction) but I also got to upgrade the entire family to season passes for a fraction of the cost and I get extra tickets for friends. The report is kinda a pain but when I'm getting $250 in tickets as payment, I expect it to be a pain.
> When I see some of these $3-$7 shops I think of
> lawnboys fighting among themselves to mow a lawn
> for $3.
Exactly! Congrats! You're on the right track to better MS choices. You'll learn that you enjoy MSing more now that you're finikier. Just keep signing up with new companies to broaden your potential jobs.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then when the schedulers get desparate
> the same shops can double or triple in their
> payments so it is obvious they are being
> compensated a lot more than the shoppers.
Bwah ha ha ha ha! Oh my! I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh. Well, yes, I do. But only because this is a common misconception with shoppers. Listen, whether you're on the MSC side or the shopper side, you are not rolling in the dough. The pay for this industry is not the best and there are many other independent contractor jobs out there that pay better. You can make decent money if you play your cards right...on either side of the fence. However, schedulers often make what shoppers make. Sometimes better. Sometimes worse. (Just another reason I'd never schedule.) Depends on the company, the client, the difficulty in getting the jobs assigned *and* completed, and the pay.
Bonuses, just FYI, for most MSCs come from a small amount companies have set aside each month to spend on hard to book places. Many companies don't have a lot of extra money to raise the pay of their jobs because they got the client at the lowest offered rate through a bidding war. The client wants the jobs done as cheaply as possible. If it gets to be too much, they'll cut their MSing programs so they can get the job done on the cheap. There are plenty of MSCs and shoppers who will perform the work for less than it's worth. That's a cold hard fact of the industry that won't ever change.
> 1. I will not start my car for less than $15 now.
> Gas costs money. Wear and tear on our cars cost
> money. No more $5-$9 shops.
>
> 2. No shops for just a sandwich.
>
> 3. This country has a minimum wage and so will I.
> If a shop is for $10, includes an hour of
> paperwork, a 15 minute visit to the company and
> gas to get their how much are we making an hour
> after expenses? $3? $5?
Perfect! We all have (or should have) our limits of what's acceptable to us. There will always be newbies or people who need the money more than they need the time who will do the shops for pennies. You're upset because gas is $4 a gallon and the prices haven't increased with the expense. I was upset when gas hit $3 a gallon and pretty much pulled out of doing most jobs back then. Add to it that many of the $10 jobs used to pay $15 or $20 ten years ago and that was enough for me to severely limit what jobs I would take. For the most part, a pay raise in this industry is a myth. There are those rare occurences but it's never anything in my neck of the woods, so I consider them the Big Foot of MSing. Lots of sightings, no proof. LOL
Now my reasons for shopping are much different. Since the bulk of my MSing money comes from editing, I don't have a lot of tax write-offs. I'll take that restaurant with the reimbursement that won't quite cover the requirements because it's a free meal and a tax deduction. Just did an amusement park shop for the free park tickets. I had to dole out my own money (tax deduction) but I also got to upgrade the entire family to season passes for a fraction of the cost and I get extra tickets for friends. The report is kinda a pain but when I'm getting $250 in tickets as payment, I expect it to be a pain.
> When I see some of these $3-$7 shops I think of
> lawnboys fighting among themselves to mow a lawn
> for $3.
Exactly! Congrats! You're on the right track to better MS choices. You'll learn that you enjoy MSing more now that you're finikier. Just keep signing up with new companies to broaden your potential jobs.
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