Flash -

If you're talking about Ladybugg, she has helped me personally, moreso than probably any other shopper. Flash, you have also helped me, in your posts that I have read. I have to agree with Ladybugg on the certification, as far as what basic skills it teaches. I did just rewatch everything the other day and it even helps newbies figure out how to do their taxes, etc. Could I have learned this all on my own? Yes, but it would have been a lot more time consuming than watching this DVD and taking the test. I value my time and this course saved me a lot of headache.

But you said before, Poofoo, you took it as a newbie, correct? The point I have been trying to make is that I do not see value for the experienced (several year +) shoppers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2009 05:50AM by dee shops.

One of the reasons for an open shopper forum is to assist our fellow shoppers, another is for the friendships we make, however fleeting they may be. While yes, some folks ask and are answered through the PM system, as a general rule, if it is a question for one shopper, it is a question for many. This is primarily a forum of and for new shoppers. Questions asked and answered in open forum benefit of all. There are other forums that meet other needs shoppers may have. Overall the tone and tenor of this forum historically has been to be openly supportive and helpful.

Dee Shops -

Yes I completely agree! If you've been in the biz.. probably won't help much. But yes, I think it's beneficial for newbies to save a ton of time doing internet searches and a ton of extra research. Of course research comes with the territory, it certainly is a good starting point.

Flash - Also agreed. I also tend to think maybe some people aren't as forthright about giving information because of the competition in this industry. I know I've gotten more tight-lipped about mystery shopping ever since I started to see my jobs dissapear left and right.


Anyway, some people (like me) just happen upon these message boards, get a bunch of insightful tips, and start taking over an area. So on the one hand, it's a blessing, and on the other, a curse. There are probably people in my area saying "Where did all the shops go??!!" Lately I've been seeing some shops that used to get assigned to me dissappear also and have commissions lowered. The people taking these shops probably have access to the same message boards. It creates competition. Everything with this business seems to be a double-edged sword.

poofoo80 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dee Shops -
>
> Yes I completely agree! If you've been in the
> biz.. probably won't help much. But yes, I think
> it's beneficial for newbies to save a ton of time
> doing internet searches and a ton of extra
> research. Of course research comes with the
> territory, it certainly is a good starting point.
>
> Flash - Also agreed. I also tend to think maybe
> some people aren't as forthright about giving
> information because of the competition in this
> industry. I know I've gotten more tight-lipped
> about mystery shopping ever since I started to see
> my jobs dissapear left and right.
>
>
> Anyway, some people (like me) just happen upon
> these message boards, get a bunch of insightful
> tips, and start taking over an area. So on the
> one hand, it's a blessing, and on the other, a
> curse. There are probably people in my area
> saying "Where did all the shops go??!!" Lately
> I've been seeing some shops that used to get
> assigned to me dissappear also and have
> commissions lowered. The people taking these
> shops probably have access to the same message
> boards. It creates competition. Everything with
> this business seems to be a double-edged sword.


Poofoo, you have given us little reason to respond to any questions you might have. Yes, competition happens. But what reason do people here have to help those that will not help others? Poofoo, if this is how you really feel, I will not be responding to you.

Edited to add:
You complained here when Ladybugg did not give you sources but referred you to the conference, even though she volunteered to help privately on her first post, before you complained. Your complaint consisted of "It should not be so hard to get the information." Now you want to make it difficult for others to get it? I think that is a crying shame.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2009 06:51PM by dee shops.

Dee-

In the past, I have gotten excellent information mainly from you and Flash. I have enjoyed the other posters as well, even if they haven't given up much information because they are newbies or for whatever reason. However I haven't posted too much until the past month or so. Seems lately that I come on here and I get nitpicked at for daring to have a sense of humor about myself. I have asked questions and, like I said before, have gotten wonderful information. I've also tried to give it. It becomes difficult giving information though when I have to constantly worry that I'm giving up too much. I've just come to find that too many people take things, as well as themselves, far too seriously. I take my work seriously - message boards I do not. I've been a part of a few different message boards in my life and it's always the same story. There are always a couple of dominant personalities with hundreds to even thousands of posts, and if anyone dares to go against the grain, they are challenged. Actually, what usually happens is the dominant people go through old posts and pick them apart so they can "win" and be right. Or they do it to prove some sort of point and make themselves look better. It's almost impossible at times to even break into a new forum unless you start out by kissing a lot of tail and agreeing. Otherwise you write something that rubs someone the wrong way and they're about ready to cast you off the board.

Anyway, the certification DVD is very extensive and explains a lot of things that I see people ask about on message boards time and time again. It is a handy tool that I do feel is an asset to any newbie wanting to get into the biz.

BTW... the conversation between Ladybugg and I has gone to private and that it shall remain. Yes I was irritated about having a hard time finding information that day, but I was enlightened and it all makes sense now. I also rewatched the certification DVD and it explained a bit more about video shopping that I had forgotten in the past 2 years since watching it. I now do not blame anyone for not giving up certain information. In my area, getting shops can be somewhat cutthroat. It gets frustrating and I lose it sometimes. I'm only human.

We all lose sometimes. No one is "going to cast you off the board" (to my knowledge anyway.) But I won't help anyone who will not help others. There are other forums about mystery shopping where they seem to specialize in that behavior of not helping.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2009 08:40PM by dee shops.

Certification is two-fold, then. Possibly, informative and possibly preferential treatment. Yes?

poofoo, did the DVD contain information that isn't ascertainable (at no cost) at this forum or others? Granted, we can't read years of posting, and searching takes time. But, aren't the mechanics - - - MSP lists and how-to tips from A to Z, at our fingertips?

In my experience, mystery shopping newbies may decide after 20 shops or less that it is not for them. I'd hate to see a newbie encouraged to spend money under the guise of pie in the sky rewards.

Everyone's idea of getting help is different. I have helped many shoppers over the years and continue to do so. I do this both on boards and in private. What I don't do is help those who show no interest in really learning anything, they just want a quick dollar. The company names are out there, the tips are out there, but training until now has not been out there, other than what the MSPA has offered. But, at least it was something. I doubt even the most experienced shopper would leave without learning at least one thing or making at least one contact from the MSPA certification classes. Never going and saying it is a waste seems like a contradiction to me.


In this small, growing field of video shopping, very few are really trained to do these jobs.

Suggesting someone attend the conference to learn about video shopping was a great idea. Seeing as how there are almost 4 hours of training on the subject and a host of companies that are hiring these talented, bold, go where few are willing to go shoppers. What better way to learn. Of course, not everyone can attend the conference, so I think it was very nice of this shopper to help another in private. Sometimes, what we can say in private comes across much clearer than trying to post it on a public board. That is one of the biggest reasons attending a conference of any type helps a shopper, new or old.

No one looks at things the same way and being able to network in person makes a big difference. With that said, I have been mystery shopping almost nine years and I would say that in the seven or eight years that I have been Gold certified, the Gold was worth it to me then and still is.

Actually, that is my signature. My book doesn't need any plugging and I will be editing my signature as soon as I finish this post. I like to help only those who really want it. ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2009 03:04AM by paminca.

Looks like you used this opportunity to plug your book. Most folks have the decency to pay for advertizing on someone elses site...:p

I would say, from my viewing of the DVD, that it did have quite a bit on there that would have been very hard to locate - if I was even able to locate it - on the internet. Cathy Stucker is the speaker in the DVD and I know she has a book out. I haven't actually read her book, so I couldn't tell you whether or not the information is the same or not. I can tell you that I had ordered another book about starting your own mystery shopping business that was pretty big and I believe it cost me about $40 used. It was also a wealth of information and I haven't even finished reading it yet. I do know that I don't want to start my own shopping company though (for now). There is already a really good company in my area that I have no desire to compete with!

Also, I am the type of person that learns more from watching others or listening to someone speak. For this reason, the DVD is more beneficial to me than reading books or searching the net for hours. If you are a bookwork or an internet search junkie and that works for you then that is fine too.

I also have noticed that some of the people who haven't even seen the DVD have such negative things to say about it. I just don't understand how you could have such a negative opinion of it if you've never seen it.

Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still guess I just don't 'get it'. Every ICA I
> remember ever signing has in it the ethical
> standards they expect of THEIR shoppers.
> Virtually every company has training,
> instructions, certifications and/or writing
> samples they find valid for THEIR shops. So the
> information is out there for free even for the
> newbie who is willing to read. As for how tos and
> other information, that is where I see shopper
> forums as being willing participants to keep
> newbies from needing to unnecessarily shell out
> their money for something that IMHO will not do
> them nearly as much good as doing some shops.
> Thus it continues to amaze me that folks who offer
> no shopper assistance on a forum come on
> proclaiming the great value of paying for
> certifications because it teaches and makes folks
> 'qualified'. Does Gold Certification prohibit
> your being helpful except in promoting
> Certification?


In response:
1. It is possible that "all that information" is available "for free," in the limited sense of "no money changes hands." But even for an adept user of Google, the resources of your local library, and other research tools, how many hours would it take to amass the same body of knowledge as the MSPA's course holds? Placing just minimal value on one's time, and considering the development and administrative costs underwritten by the MSPA, anyone with an ounce of business sense can see that $100 for the Gold certificate is quite a bargain.

Whether you, personally, believe that you can benefit is beside the point. Will there ever be a mystery shopping course that will seriously challenge the mental abilities of someone who already has a good education and vast experience in the field? Doubtful! One needs quite a varied and well-developed set of skills to succeed in this business, but intellectual rigour is not required.

2. The best possible general advice that I can give to new shoppers, who are the focus of this board I understand, is to investigate all educational opportunities available in this field such as the MSPA course and the Independent Mystery Shoppers Conference.

Is it envy, Flash? You chose to learn the business on your own so you resent anyone who is in a position to take advantage of these opportunities to work their way more speedily and efficiently up the shopping ladder?

3. Where is it stated that every single shopper out there is entitled to benefit from all the knowledge and expertise that I have diligently acquired, again, "for free"?

My particular area is video shopping. It is my full-time business, and I am jolly good at it (she says modestly), with hundreds of successful shops to my credit and an enviable reputation for the quality of my work. I have written one MSC's video training course, considered to be the best in the industry.

I act as an ad hoc, volunteer, one-woman shopper helpline for a specialist MSC, and also meet with shoppers regularly, both locally and further afield, helping them to sort out specific problems with aim and equipment. I have invited any shopper on this board to send me a private message if they would like assistance, guidance or general information. Video shopping is very different from traditional mystery shopping, obviously, and it is far more beneficial to address issues on a one-to-one basis rather than en masse. To intimate that I am not helpful to shoppers is way, way, off base.

Will I post a list of MSCs involved in this market sector? No, no more than you would expect someone to tell us all where to head for casino, hotel or cruise shops. Believe me, if someone is incapable of identifying these companies after being pointed toward a range of sources, they do not have the ability to do the necessary research prior to carrying out a video shopping assignment in the first place. However, if one of my client companies asks if I know of a good shopper in a certain region, and I am able to refer someone whom I have met through a forum or any other channel, I am always delighted to do so.

Will I offer any help or advice on other various and assorted threads where others are far more likely to have the required expertise a newbie needs? No, again. I shall leave the intricacies of gas stations and grocery stores to those who do them well -- all those photographs, all those different interactions, are quite intimidating to me!

Poofoo, thank you for springing to my defense. I am sorry that you have taken some flack for it. Strange ... certain members of this forum have criticized Volition members for their behaviour, but I do not recall ever being flamed before ...

LadyBugg1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Placing just minimal value> on one's time, and considering the development and
> administrative costs underwritten by the MSPA,
> anyone with an ounce of business sense can see
> that $100 for the Gold certificate is quite a
> bargain.

I carefully read your entire post. The above excerpt is insulting to me.

Whether I agree/disagree with your other points is irrelevant. I appreciate considering many points of view and making a decision that works best for me. However, I'm here in a reciprocal position and I would strongly discourage a new shopper from the notion that it's paramount to spend money in order to succeed at mystery shopping.

LadyBugg1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it envy, Flash? You chose to learn the
> business on your own so you resent anyone who is
> in a position to take advantage of these
> opportunities to work their way more speedily and
> efficiently up the shopping ladder?

Get a life. I learned shopping with the help of folks on forums, just as most shoppers learn it. It is not some magical, mysterious thing.

Anyone who feels they need to pay to be taught how to shop is most welcome in my book to do so. What I dislike intensely is the attitude that those who don't pay don't get to play. By my 4th month shopping I had hit the $1000 per month mark. Success was thanks to forum friends at MSFreedom who had helpful suggestions both for companies worth signing up with and organization. That is just exactly what we are trying to do here.

Thank you for the information, sharkzfanz. The statistics, especially, are interesting. Thank you for the HR information, dee shops. It's nice to know.

There is an assertion that newbies get the certifications in large numbers. Can that be proven? Perhaps if it is true, they are the serious ones.

One thing that definitely comes in handy when attending a certification course of any type is meeting directly. This way when folks talk, they have to look directly at those they insult.

These boards can easily fill with nasty, hateful comments when one can hide behind any given name they choose. Opinions are opinions and all should be respected. Not everyone needs to agree, but at least they should attempt to be civil with one another.

paminca, When I first found mystery shopping forums, I hung out, deciding if they were worth my time. I enjoy this forum and choose to spend time here due to its overall positive and supportive tone. I can openly agree/disagree/agree to disagree. I appreciate the camaraderie here, and value the information, so freely given. My mystery shopping business has benefited, and I've become a more savvy shopper. The forum frequented by you, with thousands and thousands of your posts, is a different animal, in my opinion. You've posted here just 6 times. The two forums are apples to oranges. I don't disparage either forum. I'd appreciate the same respect from you.

I visit several forums and agree whole heartedly. Each of them are different. I delight in variety. I don't consider any of the forums animals.

I am not sure what you mean by this. "I'd appreciate the same respect from you." I used the words "these boards", I did not in any manner insult this board or any other, there is no need.

Nonetheless, since I am so close to being completely organized for the conference, I will try to post more often. Maybe I can catch up to the thousands of posts I have on other forums here. I do love the networking.

PooFoo, your idea about watching the video again is excellent. It would seem to me to be the same as when we watch a good movie. Each time something new is seen. Or in this case, better understood because you have a better understanding of what is being said. Did you watch the whole 7 hours again????

paminca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe I can catch up to
> the thousands of posts I have on other forums
> here. I do love the networking.


OOOH, would that be like the time you "networked" by "visiting" the MSPA conference without paying?

At least your Violation friends that have started to visit here do not have this as their legacy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2009 08:56AM by dee shops.

Poofoo and PIC, If one needs to watch a video to learn, one time or many, then they do. Not every shopper requires it.

LadyBugg1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Certification?

>
> Will I post a list of MSCs involved in this market
> sector? No, no more than you would expect someone
> to tell us all where to head for casino, hotel or
> cruise shops. Believe me, if someone is
> incapable of identifying these companies after
> being pointed toward a range of sources, they do
> not have the ability to do the necessary research
> prior to carrying out a video shopping assignment
> in the first place. However, if one of my client
> companies asks if I know of a good shopper in a
> certain region, and I am able to refer someone
> whom I have met through a forum or any other
> channel, I am always delighted to do so.

No one asked you to do so. In fact, when I critiqued PooFoo's response, I mentioned that you VOLUNTEERED to do so privately on your first response to her.
>
> Will I offer any help or advice on other various
> and assorted threads where others are far more
> likely to have the required expertise a newbie
> needs? No, again. I shall leave the intricacies
> of gas stations and grocery stores to those who do
> them well -- all those photographs, all those
> different interactions, are quite intimidating to
> me!

We are not all good at everything. Some of us can multi-task. Others cannot.
>
> Poofoo, thank you for springing to my defense. I
> am sorry that you have taken some flack for it.
> Strange ... certain members of this forum have
> criticized Volition members for their behaviour,
> but I do not recall ever being flamed before ...

I did not see anyone here "flame" you. Perhaps you have mistaken the responses of the regular posters here.

dee shops Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> paminca Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Maybe I can catch up to
> > the thousands of posts I have on other forums
> > here. I do love the networking.
>
>
> OOOH, would that be like the time you "networked"
> by "visiting" the MSPA conference without paying?
>
> At least your Violation friends that have started
> to visit here do not have this as their legacy.


I am not sure what you mean by your accusation. But, I am going to figure you are talking about when the MSPA event was about ten minutes from my home in Orange County, and I was unable to attend.

Lorri Kern gave me prior permission to stop in at lunch and say hi to her and a few others, since we do not get to see each other very often. I was there maybe fifteen minutes during lunch,it was certainly nice to see some of the friendly faces.

I didn't even have time to stay for lunch and I hated missing out on the event, but you know sometimes the timings just aren't right. Wasn't it nice of Lorri to let me do that?

We must be speaking of different events, as prior permission was not involved in the one I speak of.

I have never been to a MSPA event that I did not pay for or attend without permission. I would find it quite odd that the MSPA would allow anyone to come to their events for free without their permission.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2009 06:12PM by paminca.

I don't know what was said that turned this thread to a direction of negativity. It seems that a couple of people have gotten riled. I never said EVERY shopper needs to watch a video. I think much of what I have said has gotten taken out of context. Now I'll just sit here and wait for my previous posts to get picked apart.

Oye.

Wait away.

Dee shops, do your research. A list of shops was requested, and was acknowledged to have been requested.

You appear to be confusing "rote memory" with "multi-tasking," an odd mistake for someone of your much vaunted educational qualifiactions.

I shall leave your negativity, and that of Flash, for others to judge.

LadyBugg1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dee shops, do your research. A list of shops was
> requested, and was acknowledged to have been
> requested.
>
> You appear to be confusing "rote memory" with
> "multi-tasking," an odd mistake for someone of
> your much vaunted educational qualifiactions.
>
> I shall leave your negativity, and that of Flash,
> for others to judge.


Whatevs.

My 'negativity' is definitely that first, last and always I will try to encourage shoppers not to pay to shop, whether it is scams, 'services' or 'certifications' because in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE they are not necessary and from Gold Certified shoppers WHOM I PERSONALLY TRUST it was not a good use of their time and resources. Make of that what you will. YMMV