reading this thread lost me money. i dont believe anything as fact in a public forum like this. do your own research. speak to the right people. make your own decision.

@Joe: I read those pages from that PI school that you posted. There's a lot of mention of a licensed PI being able to hire the school's graduates as unlicensed contractors to do work on their behalf. So if whoever is at the top level of this project is a licensed PI directly hires you, for instance, to do this surveillance work, then you are protected by their license.

But it says nothing about covering the people *you* hire to do the work for you. Among your other "credentials" I don't see you claiming to be a licensed PI. So tell us just how the person you are working for, presumably a licensed PI (and is he licensed in every state where these stings are being conducted?) is protecting the people who work for you?? And what if you hire one of us and we hire someone else to do the surveillance instead? You really think that's going to protect someone who might be arrested while doing this work? They won't even know the name of the "licensed PI" under whose license they are working because they're two or three levels removed from him.


The fact is, Joe, you came in here calling people names, telling them they were lying, using profanity in many of your posts, declaring you knew better than anyone else, and insisting it was perfectly safe to do this work on the grounds that nobody you know of (among that "ton" of shoppers you know, a "ton" being about 15 people) had ever been arrested or gotten in any trouble for doing this.

And then you cite as your source of information a page that says nothing whatsoever about protecting multiple layers of sub contractors under one PI license.

It's quite obvious you are comfortable doing this work and even more comfortable hiring others to do the work instead of you.

If some, many, or even all the people here are not comfortable with your assurances, that's our business.

Not saying you're a con man, but what con man, trying to convince someone to be conned, wouldn't reassure the connee that everything was safe and on the up and up when the connee raised concerns?

You can put whatever you want in your signature line but it proves nothing about your character or credentials. You expected us to believe you despite our misgivings because you came in here and quite rudely demanded to be believed.

How'd that work out for you?

i dont understand how he was allowed back in forum. rude posts are showing again. where are those respect police that people refer to?

The rude posts need to be reported. Jacob doesn't read every thread and the mods can't be everywhere.

He talked Jacob into letting him back in. Probably promised to be nice. Then he continues using profanity and insulting everyone.

@MSNinja wrote:

allowed back in forum. rude posts are showing again. where are those respect police that people refer to?

To clarify a few things, and because I posted an apology in a different thread. This isn't justification. I just want to be clear that I am simply sharing the why behind the action.

When I was told by a friend that there was misinformation being posted here about assignments I have a hand in I took it quite personally when I started being argued with as if I was trying to debate. At that point all I saw was someone who had no idea what they were talking about taking money from my pocket and posted a lot of hostile posts at those individuals and me wanting them to shut their face. Most of these were directed at two people, but there was also a broad generalization directed at everyone here.


I instead went all nuclear on people and is where I was wrong and what I am apologizing for. I do not at all apologize for going after people because it had to be addressed, without all the rage. A shower of facts, and why my information is to be trusted over the other responses would have been more than enough to address the situation and I didn't go for that option. Seriously, what rational person wouldn't listen to some random poster when the business owner scheduling the jobs is saying that the information that was posted is wrong and simply posted the correct directions/explanation? For liking to handle things efficiently I clearly did the exact opposite of handling it efficiently (or correctly. )

It's clearly not a point of view issue, it was a matter of fact. Hell, that certainly would have cleared things up a lot quicker and without the mess...soooo

I also went back and edited out all of the personal attacks in this thread that I could find.

Again, I am sorry for being all sorts of hostile towards people. Valid or not valid, there is always a better option than the one I chose last weekend. If I was worried about just getting the right information out, that could have been done without needing to level personal attacks at people and is something that I continue to commit to going forward. I clearly wasn't thinking of that and I should have been.

The below part is just me clarifying more hypothesis so there are no more mysteries.


@msninja I don't believe I've been terrible since coming back. There shouldn't be any personal attacks towards anyone and unless I am actually using profanity to call someone a name I don't really see any issue with it. . Using profanity isn't defacto insulting, negative, or an attack. I curse when I speak. Lots of people do. There are people who are offended by someone saying the earth is 2 billion years old. Unless the statement is an attack on someone the offended person is gonna have to solve that issue on their own. Further, if there ARE any personal attacks that were made since then please let me know and I'll fix it. I could have missed something.


I made no promises beyond explaining why and what I did and stating I wouldn't make personal attacks towards people and I do believe I have met that. Barely even talked to him . There was no interaction beyond me sending a paragraph and him saying here ya go. Now you it's not a mystery anymore.

Pfft! The irony of this post is absolutely sickening. You of all people state that rude posts need to be reported when you are its biggest practitioner?

@dspeakes wrote:

The rude posts need to be reported. Jacob doesn't read every thread and the mods can't be everywhere.

He talked Jacob into letting him back in. Probably promised to be nice. Then he continues using profanity and insulting everyone.

And then there's the irony of your own post.

Just my two cents, but while Joe is very passionate in what he does, he is also a very good reference for PPV. I've done work for him on an agreed arrangement in a major US city two years ago where he paid me within minutes of agreeing to terms. In addition to that, I was paid within a few days after the final affidavits were sent back to my primary contractor. While some folks may get offended by such passion where he will write what he feels, Joe knows what he is talking about. I strongly recommend utilizing him as a resource.

For those that may have had difficulty finding a notary, please keep in mind that your local bank more than likely would offer these services free of charge.

No, there isn't any irony to my post, dspeakes. I was stating fact with regards to yourself, not opinion.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2015 02:57AM by Eric in Tampa.

@Eric in Tampa wrote:

Pfft! The irony of this post is absolutely sickening. You of all people state that rude posts need to be reported when you are its biggest practitioner?

@dspeakes wrote:

The rude posts need to be reported. Jacob doesn't read every thread and the mods can't be everywhere.

He talked Jacob into letting him back in. Probably promised to be nice. Then he continues using profanity and insulting everyone.

This is what I received after posting my original apology and updating my signature line like several members suggested that I do to help others identify me. I wouldn't normally post this but I just want to allow everyone to review all available information including knowing what I as receiving privately was identical to what I was also being yelled at for doing by the same person. This is what I received during my attempt to apologize.

The quotes are the message I received and the non quotes are me. I gave a sincere effort and offer to try and come to amiable terms and it was met with fierce resistance. When it was clear a reasonable conclusion was not what was actually being sought and it was more about some personal feelings I realized that our goals were not the same and lost interest.


@jrossetti wrote:

"Your arrogance is bleeding all over the place, Joe, including in your bragging signature line. Who cares how many shops you've done and what difference does it make? No, it doesn't give you more credibility. There are others here who have been here longer and done more shops and they learn things from us "lesser mortals." And you won't see their statistics at the bottom of every post they make."

I'm proud. There are plenty of people who track their stats and it isn't for bragging rights beyond the accomplishment that it is. It isn't meant to minimize anyone or make anyone worship the ground I walk. It's simply because I'm proud. Sometimes' an apple's just an apple man.



"And you probably feel somehow vindicated because Jacob let you back in even though I'm sure I wasn't the only one reporting your rude and profanity-laden posts, and who breathed a huge sign of relief when he finally pulled the plug on you. And who groaned in dismay when he let you back in."

Nope, not at all. What I did was out of line. I really don't care who did or did not breath a huge sigh of relief. If you hated me or didn't want to interact with me you can simply toggle me, or don't reply to me. Instead you took the route of confrontation. I'm going to leave that at that because I'm sincerely trying to not be a dick to anyone.


"Your apology was the kind of apology a child makes when ordered to by his mother. "Go tell your brother you're sorry." "Okay, I'm sorry (but you started it)." There was no sincerity in it at all. You still think you were right and everyone you lit into was wrong. "I'm sorry I stuck my tongue out at you but I still think you're a poopy-head" is not an apology."

No one ordered it at all. In your opinion you feel it wasn't sincere. I'm telling you that you're wrong and you can either believe me or not. Yes, I do feel that the people I was yelling at were wrong, simply because they were talking about my personal companies assignments. I think I am entitled to be a know it all when I am literally the person who's job they were discussing. That's not arrogance, its my friggen company. What was wrong was how I handled it. There was no reason for me to act how I did when trying to resolve that. There were certainly better ways.

"And when someone describes a problem and someone suggests trying a solution you don't need to jump in there and shoot down the idea before it can be tried. I was talking to Iblessyah, whom I know, whom I have met personally, and whose disabilities are known to me. And whose need to shop and be productive is something I understand because she told me about her life and why she shops, something that is not widely known in the forum. She's thinking of giving up video because she doesn't think she can do it from her scooter. Even though we share turf and she has taken shops from me in the past I wanted to help her so I suggested she try other camera positions TO SEE IF THEY MIGHT WORK FOR HER. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But without knowing a damn thing about her, you jump in and shoot it down. Did you really think we didn't both know that the chest shot is generally the most stable? We went through the same video certification class together. Her situation is that the chest shot doesn't work for her."

The first time I don't quote who I was replying to and of course someone goes all crazy. I replied having read the message regarding the not using headgear because of too much movement. I hadn't even known there was discussion about a shopper with a disability. You'll note that as soon as you replied telling me what the issue was I went and sought out some answers and posted what I found.


Who's credible now? The one who offered a helpful suggestion, knowing the limitations of the other shopper? Or the knowitall who decided to give an impromptu lecture about cameras positioning to two people who he ASSumed were ignorant of the process?

"Don't bother replying. Actions speak louder than words. If you're sorry, ACT IT. Stop defending what you did and continue to do because there is no defense for it."

You know you're going to read this =) Lol. Curiosity killed the cat. (take that as the lighthearted joke it's intended as)

"I took this private for a reason. I'm letting you have the last word in that thread. Let's leave it at that.

Taking it private doesn't make it any better. You literally just did to me what I did to other people publicly and you're yelling at me for it. In this particular case however, your rant was kicked off by a complete misunderstanding and distrust.

Hope this clears things up.

/cheers


Below is the response justifying why it was okay when it was done to me.


"I took it private to keep it out of the forum. If you had taken it private with the people you were upset with we wouldn't be having this conversation now. "


I am sincere in my apology and I have made several attempts at clearing things up publicly and clearly. I have nothing more to add because all information is available publicly for anyone and everyone can form their own conclusions. I again apologize for my role. Thanks =)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2015 05:02AM by jrossetti.