I keep seeing a few shops that I'd like to do but they are so specific about exact phrases used, and quite frankly I don't know that I could remember word for word so I've considered getting a recorder. I know there are apps on phones that might work, but do they pick the conversation up well enough to hear? Does anyone use like a small pocket recorder and what success have you had with that? I'm pretty new so any tips would be great.

Edit-I just found some flash drive recorders, any experience with those?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 04:14AM by Delights79.

Are you in a one party or two party state?

I did a little research after I posted that and I'm in a one party state.

I use a free recorder app on my iphone, and it works great, even in the outside pocket of my purse. The one I use is by tapmedia.

I use a mini recorder tucked into my bra. It was the best purchase I ever made. I use it for timings as well.

@Delights79 wrote:

I did a little research after I posted that and I'm in a one party state.

Make absolutely sure that 'a little research' is current, as some lists or websites might not have been updated. Also, if you're considering making a phone call to another state, make sure that state is one-party, as well.

Some lists put Delaware in the 1 party state category; treat it as a 2 party state, due to some court rulings.

I use a SanDisk media player. It's about a quarter of the size of your average smart phone, and records amazing audio. I've even used it in video production when a mic goes out.

Regarding the one-party, two-party state debate. Unless you are submitting the recording into evidence in some type of hearing, I say no harm, no foul. What is the difference if you are quoting someone from memory or from the device besides the fact that the device is absolutely more accurate. You can always say you are using it to record your own voice for timing purposes and just happen to pick up ambient sound. I've used this recorder for 8 years now, and consider it my most valuable piece of MS equipment besides my computer.

Sorry, Paul. In a two party state the word "felony" is used, not just the word "foul."

Experiment on your own. I use an app on my phone but if I answer a call it interrupts the microphone. I have to put the phone in a shirt pocket, or hold it. If I put it in a case, on my side, it muffles the sound.

Just turn a tv on and see how well your device picks up sound. Talk normally, test it. Ask a relative or friend to help test it.

I'm not giving advice, just stating my opinion. If you are quoting someone on a mystery shopping report, how would anyone possibly know how that quote was obtained? I seem to remember hearing something about suspending any right to assume privacy in public in this day and age. Is it OK to shoot video on your phone without two party consent? Last I heard, that also records audio. It appears to me most of these statutes are intended to prevent unauthorized taping of telephone conversations and third party eavesdropping (bugging a hotel room or office).

No, Paul, those laws are not so limited. They apply, for instance, to reporters covering a story who want to do interviews or just record street talk. In two party states they have to provide informed consent to the other party/parties. In MD they law had to be amended so that when police start wearing cameras, they do not have to get informed consent to the audio portion before engaging a member of the public. Cell phones can shoot video without audio.

ETA: Please go to the New Mystery Shoppers area of the forum where there is a thread about audio and video recording with links to sites that provide the legal documentation you may want to see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 01:50PM by walesmaven.

It's good to test it in a similar situation because you need to see how much background noise it picks up, etc.

You are WRONG. Making an audio recording in a two-party consent state is a felony. It is a crime. You can be charged and arrested by the police. You would be prosecuted by the District Dttorney. You will need to hire a criminal defense attorney.

You may decide to take the risk, but at least be honest about the risk you are taking. You are committing a felony, and you need to decide whether the paltry MSC fee (maybe $20) is worth the risk if you need to hire an attorney (maybe $20,000) and maybe a fine and maybe jail time. You are entitled to take the risk if you want to do so. I won't. And I won't advise others to do so either.

@PaulinMI wrote:

I use a SanDisk media player. It's about a quarter of the size of your average smart phone, and records amazing audio. I've even used it in video production when a mic goes out.

Regarding the one-party, two-party state debate. Unless you are submitting the recording into evidence in some type of hearing, I say no harm, no foul. What is the difference if you are quoting someone from memory or from the device besides the fact that the device is absolutely more accurate. You can always say you are using it to record your own voice for timing purposes and just happen to pick up ambient sound. I've used this recorder for 8 years now, and consider it my most valuable piece of MS equipment besides my computer.

Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate the advice that people gave as far as which recorder and tips and tricks. I am certain that I am in a one party state, so I don't have any worry as far as recording. The only person who would hear it would be me, and it is only to ensure that my reports are as accurate as possible on the ones that are very detailed and lengthy so I can be as honest and fair to the client as possible. I didn't want this to turn into a debate, and I realize this is a sensitive subject to many people. Thanks again for those who offered their feedback, sure glad this forum is available so we can help each other out.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 02:45PM by Delights79.

There is a big difference between being in public and being a place of public accommodation. A store or a shopping mall is a place of public accommodation. It is not a public space like a sidewalk or a street. A parking lot is a place of public accommodation and their own rules apply (which is why they can tow your car away and charge you exorbitant fees). Even on a sidewalk in a two-party consent state, you are not allowed to make an audio recording. You are allowed to record a SILENT video, but not one with sound.

The laws have nothting to do with intent. When you make an audio recording in a two-party state, call from a 2-party state into a 1-party state, or from a 1-party state into a 2-party state, you are committing a FELONY CRIME. The issue of whether you will be detected or arrested or prosecuted is different. You are entitled to assume whatever level of risk you choose.

I find it interesting that you have admitted (in this post and an earlier one in this thread on a public forum that you have been committing a felony for the past 8 years. Seems akin to waving a red flag at a bull. Of course, some people participate in Running the Bulls in Pamplona. And some get gored.

@PaulinMI wrote:

I'm not giving advice, just stating my opinion. If you are quoting someone on a mystery shopping report, how would anyone possibly know how that quote was obtained? I seem to remember hearing something about suspending any right to assume privacy in public in this day and age. Is it OK to shoot video on your phone without two party consent? Last I heard, that also records audio. It appears to me most of these statutes are intended to prevent unauthorized taping of telephone conversations and third party eavesdropping (bugging a hotel room or office).

Again, I am stating an opinion, not giving advice. I never stated how I use my media device in mystery shopping, I simply stated I did. The device has timing features and plays music which I also enjoy. In Michigan, a court has interpreted this rule in this manner.

"This interpretation allows a participant in a conversation to record that conversation without the permission of other parties. - See more at: [www.detectiveservices.com]"

I've also shopped in Texas, which is a one party rule state.

Myst4au, your points are probably factually correct, and I would never encourage anyone to break any laws. This includes driving over the speed limit, failing to signal to change lanes, or sharing MP3 files, or copying a DVD, all of which I have NEVER done.

I have a Sony digital voice recorder with a USB cable so I can connect it and trandfer files to my laptop. There have been a couple of occasions when I have needed to provide the recordings to prove what was said.

Paul, the note you are relying on about Michigan law states that "one court" has interpreted it the way you would like. That indicates that the court ruling in question is open to appeal and may, or may not, agree with other court rulings within the same state. Until the Michigan State Supreme court rules, you would still be betting on a limited opinion.

When I first started doing apartment shops, I was very intimidated by all the detail, so I started recording them for my own use and recollection (I live in a 2-party state). I thought if it was for my own use, it was ok. After reading this forum, and getting more experienced, I quit recording. The forum also helped me with suggestions for when I can't remember things like eye color - "unknown". I tried it once and was SO nervous the report would be returned - it wasn't! Since then, I make a mental note to pay special attention to those areas I struggle with. Immediately after a shop, I drive somewhere close, and take many notes.

I have not recorded anything. I use cheat sheets and take hand-written notes as close to the action as possible. This is very useful but not infallible.

I understand that even the hardiest human memory can falter and that accuracy may suffer. I understand the intent to use the recordings only for the noble purpose of accuracy in reporting and research. I understand the need for accuracy in reporting and research.

As I consider the ideas here, I am trying to imagine a trial..... Shopper # ############ (no names, please) is being cross-examined about a personally obtained recording made of the exact statement made by the defendant during the opening remark of the interaction in question.

"Are you saying, shopper # ############, whose name is secret, that you acted in the spirit of the law when you secretly taped the defendant (male, 8'3", bald, no glasses, muscular, known to hang out near fume-y household cleansers), when he was doing his job and following orders to say, "Good morning!" to you and all other customers?

"Yes. You see, I was following orders to quote what the defendant said to me at the beginning of our interaction. If I just say what he said without proof of it, I am gossiping and giving hearsay testimony, which is considered inferior."


Now, our defendant is just Mr. Clean. He is a non-issue... unless you think he has an issue with fumes.

But who would want to deal with a legitimate legal challenge?

Here are some other things that are illegal in Michigan (according to my 2 minute google search, so take it with a grain of salt):

-Being drunk on a train (uh oh.... I'm glad I don't live in Michigan)
-Adultery, but you can only be punished if the "wronged" spouse presses charges. Also, a man who has an affair with a married woman is guilty of adultery, but a woman who has an affair with a married man is not. Progressive!
-Seducing and corrupting an unmarried woman (punishable by 5 years in prison! Holy smokes, now I'm really glad I don't live in Michigan).
-Selling a car on a Sunday
-Mocking someone for refusing to duel.
-Organizing a walk-a-thon that lasts more than one day (up to 90 days in jail, buster)

My point (other than just to have some fun with silly laws), is that I think a simple warning to check your local laws and make your own decision when considering a recording device is sufficient. I don't think we need ALL CAPS, SHOUTING about felony crimes.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to sell my car and then get drunk on the train ride back home.

Caligirl,
But are those all felonies?

@walesmaven wrote:

Caligirl,
But are those all felonies?

I would imagine the five-years-in-prison one is.

Ah, could be, lol.

OK, I'll throw a couple of more points onto the fire, just because I've just gotten back in from mowing my way too big lawn with my way too small mower.

I am primarily a restaurant shopper. I don't need the income from shopping, but do appreciate it. I like to take my family out and have other people pay for it. I like to use my media device in this way. "Note to self. Entering blah-blah place at certain-certain time, landscaping looks good. All exterior signs are lit"." next.. "Hostess looked like this, said this... ", "server looked like this, was wearing such color attire, recommended such and such as appetizers". "It is blah-blah o'clock, salads just arrived. They are on a plate".

I don't do grocery shops because of the number of interactions required. Or car dealerships because I hate dealing with salespeople unless I have a need for the product.

I do know for a fact that a certain large American automotive manufacturer requires it's dealership salespeople and parts people to sign an employment agreement that states that they acknowledge that while in the course of performing their said duties they may be videotaped or voice recorded at any time with our without their prior knowledge. I would not be surprised to learn that policy is carried over to several service industries. Maybe some forum users in professions like that can weigh in on how far that policy has spread.

Lastly, thanks CaliGirl925 for educating me on some of the laws here in this state. I hope my wife never learns of #3!

@PaulinMI wrote:

Lastly, thanks CaliGirl925 for educating me on some of the laws here in this state. I hope my wife never learns of #3!

She's married now, so you're allowed to seduce her all you want.

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

@PaulinMI wrote:

Lastly, thanks CaliGirl925 for educating me on some of the laws here in this state. I hope my wife never learns of #3!

She's married now, so you're allowed to seduce her all you want.

Did that make any mention of any statute of limitations?

Overwhelmed by the amount of detail and direct quotes required for some shops, I have recorded interactions. However, I found the transcription time (listening, forwarding to a certain point in the recording, typing out what is said) is much longer than committing a few things to memory, and taking notes immediately after the shop. I have a text file on my phone where I have prompts for the information I need to get and I fill it in as I go, or immediately after the shop. Doing shops has really helped me increase my memory. My attention to detail has improved, also.

Paul,
The clients that want audio recordings of their employees in 2 party states have to get those employees to sign an agreement that they consent to audio recording. Unless it is a call center location where the caller hears that message that the calls may be recorded for training purposes, you can bet that the employer has NOT gotten written consent from the employees.

This is also why you will almost never see an audio recorded competitor shop; the client cannot have the prior consent of the competitor's employees. The one, and quite rare, exception is when a particular MSC has audio/video contracts with so many clients in an industry (let's say apartment management companies) that it knows for sure that both client A and client B have such consent forms on file and one client wants the other audio/video shopped. As most MSCs that do audio/video with audio recorded shops will tell you, when they get a new client, that client almost never before has had such an agreement except for their call center workers. So, no, it does not appear likely that you would be so lucky as to happen upon a client who had the informed consent on file unless they are already doing audio recording.