For those in the Los Angeles, CA area a Gold Certification workshop is being held at the Holiday Inn Burbank, CA on Sat. June 5, 2010 from 8am-2pm.
The workshop will be conducted by representatives from several mystery shopping and scheduling companies.
A survey showed that shoppers wanted a live workshop where they could network with other shoppers and company owners. It is possible more workshops will be held throughout the US this year.
The dvd will be used in conducting this workshop. Discussions will be conducted in-between the various segments of the dvd.
The cost is $125 which includes a copy of the DVD and refreshments. Shoppers will be responsible for their lunch.
If this is of interest you can go to the shopper section of www.mysteryshop.org or email doug@nwlpc.com for more information.

Since is advertising a paid opportunity, should this not be elsewhere? Like the job opportunities section, instead of providing free advertising for the MSPA?


Don't pay to shop! :-)

This isn't meant for "free advertising". We did a survey and a good percentage of shoppers are asking for this so I thought this would be a good forum to post on to let shoppers know there is a workshop if they are interested.

This isn't "paying to shop", so please don't mislead those who may be interested.

If shoppers decide not to go to the workshop they surely won'rt be penalized by not being a shopper, but if they do take the workshop, especially those who may not been in this industry for long, will come out as being more informed of what mystery shopping companies expect, how to be better shoppers.

The information can also be gleaned by reading message boards aimed toward the indutry and they don't have to pay $125 per person to learn it. Certification is twaddle.

The post is not meant as a debate on if being certified is worth the cost or not.

If you don't agree with Gold Certification, fine, but believe it or not there are many MS companies out there that give first dibs to gold certified shoppers.

I am not going to use this forum to answer everyone who uses this board to complain, but please don't insult those shoppers who have taken the time to become certified.

I am sure that in the upcoming year shoppers who are certified will see more value added to being certified.

This forum is for shoppers to talk to shoppers. It seems to me that we shoppers should decide what we want to say about being certified or not. It's posted here in a shopper's forum. It's a free ad for something that shoppers would need to pay for.

Don't pay to shop!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 03:45AM by dee shops.

I respectfully disagree.

I doubt very much that the company representatives are being compensated for being at this workshop, and as such it is not free advertising from the source - a company, not the MSPA. I think it is an appropriate topic to place here in a shoppers forum.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 04:11AM by MickeyB.

Mickey, whether or not they are being compensated, shoppers are being asked to spend money. It is not free to shoppers. That makes it an advertisement.

IDK - I guess if there is a rule that there is to be no advertisements in the shopper sections, then maybe you are right, this is not in the appropriate section of the board. I do think it is cool - and props to those that are involved on the company side - for doing this.

There are those on these forums that do nothing but complain and take a negative attitude when it comes to anything regarding MSPA or the certification program. The fee goes towards room rental and the DVD. I am one of the people presenting this workshop and I am paying for my plane ticket from Seattle, my hotel room and car rental out of my own pocket to meet shoppers and to help in moderating the workshop. The others are mystery shopping company owners and an owner of a scheduling company who are taking time on a Saturday, un-compensated, to do the same.
There are those outside the mystery shopping industry who pay to go to classes to better themselves, Sometimes you have to pay to stay informed and keep up with the industry you are in.
What Dee Shops can't understand is that this is not paying to shop. It is paying to attend a workshop to learn. As for Cettie saying you can glean information, that is probably true, but interacting with other shoppers, company owners, etc has it's purpose as well plus gleaning information from other shoppers is a little different that networking with the owners of mystery shopping companies, editors and schedulers. Some people are simply anti MSPA or any type of training dispite who is putting it on and there is nothing we can do about that, but when you insult the certification program you are also insulting your fellow shoppers who have taken the time and expense to become certified.
If you don't attend this does not mean you won't get jobs or not be a shopper.
Shoppers are the life blood of the industry. When companies, such as mine, receive a registration from a person wishing to be a shopper and see no past shopping experience shoppers we see as being certified will get first dibs since we know they took the time to take mystery shopping seriously. Does this mean that season shoppers who are not certified not experienced? Does it mean that non-certified shoppers are bad shoppers? Absolutely not,
I realize that this is an open forum and shoppers will comment but we are doing this nbecause we did a survey of over 2000 shoppers and 70% stated they would welcome a live workshop.

If one can better themselves without paying to do so, why would one pay to do so?
That is what dcrector cannot understand.

Paying for a seminar to better myself? Not this seminar. This one seems entirely oriented to utter newbs, and, I'm sorry, but NO ONE will ever convince me that an utter newb with ore is more qualified or more serious than those shopper without ore who have paid their dues and earned their ratings.

One hardly needs a college degree nor even a full-blown half-day seminar to "keep up with changes in this industry", most especially as many of the jobs constantly dance closer and closer to employee status in terms of how tight a reign is put on the IC to do the job very specifically with no out of the box thinking.


edited to add:

And as an ex HR director, I am well acquainted with the application of those particular laws and how they relate to the workplace. Many MSC's are claiming people are ICs when the legal tests of such are not met to any degree. PERIOD. It is all about saving money on the MSC side. I'm not going to pretend your margins are not small. They are, and I think they get smaller every day. But ours get smaller still, and we often take far more risks with our cash kitties.

Another thing I find quite interesting about the MSPA..when they go to DC to claim that changing IC rules would hurt and upset the "1.5 million shoppers" that live in all the states of the senators they are addressing, they use beefed up numbers that really look at an aggregate number of shoppers from all the MSPA members (even though most of us are signed up with this same group of companies, so the number is sheer and utter fabrication.) But, when they want to find out who might be interested in a DVD workshop, they only poll 2K in number? Gimme a huge break. I'm silver certified and no one asked me-did they ask YOU?

Who did they ask, the utter newbs who jut had signed up on their websites?

Doug, I see the MSPA as a trade associate for MSC's. That is what their web site states that it is. I do not see them as benefiting shoppers in the least. If the fact that some shoppers think like I do on this issue bothers you, well, then it does. Many things the MSPA does in MY name bother me, but they are NOT asking me to weigh in on it before they represent me to congress, etc., so I am not asking them what I should believe about them. Period. YMMV, and most certainly does. But don't ask me to not voice my view when you come to shopperland to expound yours. My view is mine, and I earned it as much as you earned yours.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 08:32AM by dee shops.

What is the value added to being certified ?

With the level of experience you have, HB, none. :-)

Hellbent. There are several advantages to being Gold Certified. Dee, for whatever reason, is anti-MSPA anyway so before making any decision you should consider the positves. I will be more than happy to discuss (with anyone) if you wish to contact my office. Visit www.nwlpc.com. I am not going to keep posting on this thread and fuel Dee's crusade.

Excellent, Doug. :-) BTW, I am not "anti-MSPA" I think it serves its purpose as a trade association for MSC's. However, it does not serve shoppers' interests, nor should it, as it is a trade association for the MSC's. So I am not "anti MSPA", I am anti selling BS to shoppers as if they represented our interests.

HB, don't forget to check with the other experienced shoppers we both already know from here and other forums, too. :-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 05:43PM by dee shops.

While I am certainly not one to defend many of the practices of the MSPA, I can see the value offered to newbies with a workshop that gives and introduction to the concept of MSing and training for some of the basic elements.

I can also see an argument for why it would be appropriate for the MSPA to offer a complimentary program, since it will most likely supply a better quality of newbie shopper to all MSCs and in turn save the MSPA members money. I can also understand that there is a cost involved in putting on such an event and agree that some of it could be shared by attendees.

It seems to me that it's really the concept of the "certification" and the requirement to pay for the gold DVD that which strikes a bad chord with many. There are really two very different components to what is being offered at this workshop; One is the introduction to mystery shopping and it's requirements, and the other is the opportunity to meet with other shoppers and MSC representatives.

If you have polled only existing shoppers, I think that they are most likely attending for the later component. In that case, it seems they are being pressured into purchasing the DVD and gold certification in order to network and increase their job opportunities. If these shoppers are already registered and not able to get the jobs they desire (especially with the current pay structures offered), I'm not feeling confident that this certification will make them a better shopper.

I don't consider this workshop necessarily paying to shop, but the argument given that certified shoppers have a greater opportunity to be scheduled certainly applies pressure to lesser informed shoppers to pony up the money. That seems a bit disingenuous and I would be much more supportive of a program that offered shoppers a 'jump start' on getting into the business, but also offered a clear disclaimer that the certification was not a requirement and did not dangle an unspecified carrot of added value.

Doug, is it possible that there could be a lesser fee to attend for those who don't want to take part in the certification itself or receive the DVD, but would like to attend for the Q&A, as well as meeting with the MSC representatives? I know that some MSPA events in the past have offered discounted rates for shoppers who were already certified but wanted to attend.

I have many associates in L.A. who regularly ask me how to get into mystery shopping or what it's all about. I would love to recommend them to an event where they could get a good look at what's involved without paying a hefty fee. Why can't there be a complimentary workshop with an option to purchase the DVD and/or certification test at the conclusion for those who are interested?

Since the MSPA in charged with the task of increasing the positive public image of the MS industry, this seems like it would be a good concept. These events are in competition with numerous pay-to-shop sites that charge in the $25-30 range and promise to find shoppers jobs, and have much better search optimization with Google.

What about the concept of offering the DVD itself to anyone interested in shopping for free, and then charging only for those who choose to take the certification test? If the DVD is a such a great tool for shoppers to have, think how many more shoppers would be better educated if the DVD was provided to them. If it was offered on Amazon and other resellers for only shipping and handling costs, imagine how many would come across the DVD when searching on mystery shopping and chose that, rather than the multitude of 'how to' books published by shoppers.

Thank you, Steve. I appreciate a voice of reason and I am squarely sitting on the fence with you on this one!

SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While I am certainly not one to defend many of the
> practices of the MSPA, I can see the value offered
> to newbies with a workshop that gives and
> introduction to the concept of MSing and training
> for some of the basic elements.

Okay, for utter newbs I can somewhat agree.
>
> I can also see an argument for why it would be
> appropriate for the MSPA to offer a complimentary
> program, since it will most likely supply a better
> quality of newbie shopper to all MSCs and in turn
> save the MSPA members money.

This I could get behind. Making new shoppers successful improves the bottom line for companies. If they want to use certified shoppers, let them foot the bill for it.

>
> If you have polled only existing shoppers, I think
> that they are most likely attending for the later
> component.

Maybe, maybe not. I think that is why some shoppers prefer the workshop over the DVD alone.

> In that case, it seems they are being
> pressured into purchasing the DVD and gold
> certification in order to network and increase
> their job opportunities. If these shoppers are
> already registered and not able to get the jobs
> they desire (especially with the current pay
> structures offered), I'm not feeling confident
> that this certification will make them a better
> shopper.

Yup.

> but the argument given that certified
> shoppers have a greater opportunity to be
> scheduled certainly applies pressure to lesser
> informed shoppers to pony up the money.

And has been for years. But I have yet to see an experienced shopper who can directly show me statistically how it dramatically improved their business. I have seen those who are not shoppers tell us it will, though. :-) LOL.

> That
> seems a bit disingenuous

Totally agree!

> and I would be much more
> supportive of a program that offered shoppers a
> 'jump start' on getting into the business, but
> also offered a clear disclaimer that the
> certification was not a requirement and did not
> dangle an unspecified carrot of added value.


I would too.

>
> Doug, is it possible that there could be a lesser
> fee to attend for those who don't want to take
> part in the certification itself or receive the
> DVD, but would like to attend for the Q&A, as well
> as meeting with the MSC representatives? I know
> that some MSPA events in the past have offered
> discounted rates for shoppers who were already
> certified but wanted to attend.

I wouldn't attend, as I don't consider meeting 3 or 4 MSC company owners/Lori Kern worth $25 of my money, let alone $125, but I can see that some people would, so sure, why not disengage it from the DVD/certification push? Oops, I think they did that in the past! It was called their shopper's conference, LOL. Then they abandoned shopper's with last year's conference. So some shoppers started their own conference, which I heard that the MSPA attempted to undermine, but did not succeed, so they finally "joined 'em." (I would not attend that either, but that has to do with the specific people, the money-making aims, the implementation, and the fact that it is not virtual when it could be so easily.) Anyway, now that they saw shoppers united *without them*, NOW they want to start up the in-person stuff and meet and greet again? I'm sorry, I'm just not buying it. I think some are threatened by the idea that shoppers can succeed at uniting without them, and that there are far more of US than there are of them. Shopper's united could create change...could be a scary thought for some MSC's...


> What about the concept of offering the DVD itself
> to anyone interested in shopping for free, and
> then charging only for those who choose to take
> the certification test? If the DVD is a such a
> great tool for shoppers to have, think how many
> more shoppers would be better educated if the DVD
> was provided to them. If it was offered on Amazon
> and other resellers for only shipping and handling
> costs, imagine how many would come across the DVD
> when searching on mystery shopping and chose that,
> rather than the multitude of 'how to' books
> published by shoppers.

Even better...put it all online on the MSPA website, no need to pay for shipping and handling from anywhere. Charge a small administrative fee ($10?) for a person to take the test and and have the verifiable credential online at the MSPA site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 09:31PM by dee shops.

dee shops Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even better...put it all online on the MSPA
> website, no need to pay for shipping and handling
> from anywhere. Charge a small administrative fee
> ($10?) for a person to take the test and and have
> the verifiable credential online at the MSPA site.

Why even a 'small administrative fee'? If these companies feel it is so valuable, it should be available at $0 cost to those willing to go through the process. It is, after all, theoretically to THEIR benefit for us to all be so well informed. And if it is not really USEFUL and CRITICAL to the MSPs, why are shoppers being asked to take it at all--free or for a fee???

Well, you know I strongly prefer free. But I would support a one-time fee of $10 for the costs of paying someone to maintain the the database. That's the only concession I am willing to give in paying...not paying for the info, paying for the administration of the test itself and the record keeping of who passed.

I would be surprised if a person who is in the newbie phase of mystery shopping is still reading this thread. I've shopped for three years and honestly, I'm hardly reading it as I've read it all before, more than a few times.

The point I would like to make is that neither a person beginning to explore mystery shopping, nor a beginner with minimal shop experience, should be targeted for certification. At this stage, a person doesn't even know if shopping is going to work out for them long term. Advising new shoppers to spend $125 and see better fees and availability of shops invisible to others is propaganda and exploitative.

Do I feel that a shopper with only a few shops under his belt and who purchases gold has an edge over a shopper with no gold and years of experience? No. I believe schedulers are more astute than that. I also believe that only an experienced shopper is in a position to decide if his/her business would benefit from certification.

I am not denigrating the seasoned, successful shopper who has certification. They made an informed decision based on experience and research. My concern is for the inexperienced. Lots of people - desperate, foolish, gullible, will shell out $125 for a pie in the sky. In my opinion, gold should not be available to beginners at any price.

Gold should mean something.

I agree Mert. It SHOULD mean something.

I thought the ideas tossed out last time this discussion took place were insightful ways to look at what it should mean and what it should be.

But since the Gold is packaged and marketed to anyone and who has already ponied up $15 (or is willing to do that) for the Silver and another $125 for the Gold, it means little to nothing to many. And if they are going to continue to do that, make it free and make it worth something to newbs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2010 01:49AM by dee shops.

I totally agree. I don't see a value in Gold Certification. If MSPs do see a value - if indeed they find it useful and critical - - they should fund it. Maybe there could be requirements to be able to take the test - a requirement to have successfully shopped for a certain amount of time? I am Silver certified, for no other reason than because when I began I believed it was necessary to get MS jobs, so I did it. My son also shops and is NOT certified; he sees exactly the same shops I do. Of the 100+ companies I shop for, there is ONE shop for ONE MSP my son cannot do, although he can see it; it requires silver certification. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have bothered with silver certification. I haven't seen or heard anything over the past couple of years of shopping to convince me that Gold certification is worth the time and money I would be required to spend for it. I MIGHT be willing to invest my time if there were no cost or a nominal cost.

Of course we already spend quite a bit of time certifying and recertifying with some companies, going through initial information with new-to-us companies, etc. And of course there are then the client specific instructions and company specific standards. And of course many/most of these companies are MSPA yet they are not taking the short cut of only taking certified shoppers, nor are they waiving certifications or going through their instructions or standards if you ARE certified. So how many times do you need to read the same theme with slight variations?

Dee, settle down. We don't need your lectures and quit quoting everyone,

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2010 04:02AM by Steveo.

Steveo...Thanks for the feedback. I still get to say what I think, as do you.

I would love to go to a Gold certification workshop (if there was one in my area). I do see the value of MSPA certification. I think it would be fun to meet other shoppers! The money spent on the certification is tax deductible and I think there is a lot of value in this (for me anywyay). Thank goodness we all are different!!

I got silver and have had schedulers I never heard of get my name from a list and offer me shops. Next week I'm doing $240 worth of assisted living shops because of the silver cert. I don't have money for a gold, but $15 has paid itself back several times.