Amen, threemom! Drove me crazy when the shopper would only answer 2-3 of my 5-6 questions, and then not check their email for a couple more days.

And as far as feedback goes, I tried to give feedback to be helpful a few times and some shoppers got really angry with me. They took it as a personal offense instead of recognizing constructive criticism, while with others there was so much feedback that needed to be conveyed it might have added an addition 30 minutes to the edit time by writing them an email explanation in addition to the hour or more already spent. All that work for the princely sum of $5.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

The company that Steve worked for requires a writing sample from people before they are accepted as shoppers, and also these same shoppers had to do a number of phone shops and such before they were allowed to take any shops that required extensive writing. Those reports were probably much nicer to look at than what I saw on a regular basis.

Sadly, that wasn't always the case. While there were some shoppers who were great writers, the majority of reports required a lot of editing and follow-up. Some were as bad as the examples above. On occasion, I would just call a shopper, interview them about the experience and then re-write the entire report based on the phone interview, since I knew they would not be able to produce the required narrative on their own.

Despite the writing samples required, I found that some shoppers clearly had help from others at times or plagerized their samples. Others simply plagerized entire reports. One actually turned in a sample report from the MSC website...that I had written! They changed a few details & thought I wouldn't notice. Others were just horrifically racist or sexist.

I was salaried so while I was able to make a living at the job, it really depressed me. It left me with a really negative impression of people & education in the U.S. that (prior to social media and politics being where they are today) I had never expected. Perhaps if I entered that job market these days I would not be as shocked by it.

I think that's what ultimately led me to take part in the forums. I had previously read them and posted as a sceduler, but my participation there helped reassure me that not all shoppers were as bad as I had started to believe.

I've noticed that in some guidelines that the MSC wanted this and this in the narrative- like the name of each person you interacted with, some only want the associates/employee referred to as employee, include your experience in the restroom-was it clean, free of odors, or appropriately stocked, not to include actual details when nature called. I would take notes and write it down so I can refer to it when doing the report.

I would occasionally get a report to edit where the shopper had used Google Translate, after having marked in their profile that they were fluent in English. Completely obvious and a ton of work to fix.

OMG. You have hit all of the proverbial nails on their heads, Threemom! Thank you!!!!

I hope it's obvious which post I replied to. I thought the way I clicked on the link that my reply would be posted below the appropriate post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2017 03:27AM by Jamiesan.

OK. Still not posting below post. Sorry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2017 03:28AM by Jamiesan.

I really do wish there was more of a vetting for shoppers. As a former English teacher with a masters degree, I feel I am over qualified for much of what I do. But as a SAHM (no, I don't braid my hair all day or decide on wine for my weekend adventures...) I take advantage of what I can do because I enjoy shopping and don't have the ability to work full time anymore - my kids are young still and need me and childcare costs for them would be a joke. Plus, when I taught, I spent all of my time either at work or reading the assignments of my 180+ students. My kids didn't get much time with me.

That being said, when I taught high school English, I could see that either many teachers before me had failed or the kids just didn't listen to what was being taught. I'd imagine this "style" of writing and grammar isn't getting better with texting and social media. I had to explained that "Imma" and "finna" were not words. There, their, and they're were still so confusing to so many of them. I have not been an editor for MS, but the papers I was editing scared me away from ever considering becoming one.

You're so right. Sometimes I think that students need to be taught English as a second language because they speak horrible "American" and aren't taught any better at home. It is sad.

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Why would companies keep shoppers that write a report like this?

Those who terminate shoppers don't have to edit the reports.The shoppers don't waste *their* time or affect *their* income.

If a report is generated to the client, who pays for said report, all is good in the eyes of the powers that be.

@beolein wrote:

Thank you JASFLALMT.
Let me see if I have this right. You start with terrible writing that forces you to contact shoppers multiple times for clarification. You get paid by the report. Because shoppers write so terribly and don’t reply promptly, and because companies keep shoppers that write terrible reports, you cannot complete enough reports to make a full-time living from it. Is that right?
If that is right, how do proofreaders move up the ladder to both be given only reports with decent writing and enough reports to make a full-time living?

Not all shoppers write that badly. There's a spectrum. That said, yes, that's why I can't make a living at it (that and the paltry wages), but I don't have a choice.

Not all editors work for MSCs that require editors to move up the ladder.

So you need the flexibility, have a degree in English, feel the system is lacking, have a background teaching and feel you are overqualified for mystery shopping so why don't you tutor? It would tick all the boxes and allow you to improve the lives of the students.

@ShopSouthTexas wrote:

As a former English teacher with a masters degree, I feel I am over qualified for much of what I do. But as a SAHM I take advantage of what I can do because I enjoy shopping and don't have the ability to work full time anymore

That being said, when I taught high school English, I could see that either many teachers before me had failed or the kids just didn't listen to what was being taught. I'd imagine this "style" of writing and grammar isn't getting better with texting and social media. I had to explained that "Imma" and "finna" were not words. There, their, and they're were still so confusing to so many of them. I have not been an editor for MS, but the papers I was editing scared me away from ever considering becoming one.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

The company that Steve worked for requires a writing sample from people before they are accepted as shoppers/quote]

Great idea. Unfortunately, some MSCs don't take their own required writing sample into consideration before assigning shops. <sigh>

Jamie
Editor and shopper

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Interesting to know what goes on inside, another question would be, why do some companies like The Source and Customer Impact never over edit, with hardly any feedback...should this tell you their shoppers are of a better quality than other companies or are standards of writing just different?

What do you mean "over edit"?

Some MSCs just don't bother to provide feedback. I don't know why. Maybe they're going to assign shops as needed regardless of report quality. The MSCs just want to get their shops done and get paid by the client. Maybe they don't care about editors' time (I hope not).

I don't think it *necessarily* means that the shoppers are of better quality. Yes, sometimes standards of writing are just different.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I think some of it also might be the way that the guidelines are written and the report form is laid out. CI and TS both do a really good job on that. I think IS often doesn't lay out the report form in a logical order so that the narrative can be written chronologically according to the way the sentences are numbered. If the shopper has to jump back and forth from various sentences to write the narrative it becomes confusing. Also, sometimes guidelines are vague and not interpreted the same way by the shopper and the editor, or even sometimes a scheduler uploads the wrong guidelines for the wrong report, and then all hell breaks loose and we read about it in the forum from angry shoppers.
.

Yes to all of the above, JAS. Guidelines are so often lacking. That's something that makes an editor's (and shopper's!) job more difficult. Likewise the form layout, which is according to the client's wishes I'm told.

I understand that some MSCs allow editor input into the guidelines and report form(at). Lucky editors.

@gotshops wrote:

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Why would companies keep shoppers that write a report like this?

I suspect some areas are just starved for shoppers and beggars can't be choosers. A shopper's availability, integrity, and observational skills are probably more valued than their language skills--especially if an editor works for a flat fee. What does the MSC care when the end product is acceptable to the client?

YESYESYESYESYESYES

@gotshops wrote:

I just resubmitted a report after an editor asked for clarification. She had partially edited my report and I saw many errors (hers, not mine). I corrected a few of those and then just gave up.

What bugged me more than her adding errors to my narratives was her changing the meaning of some of what I had reported.

Please don't "correct" her edits. She has to re-edit them. Maybe you are wrong about her errors, or maybe she was a lousy editor. Either way, you wasted her time and yours. She will have to be accountable for her errors if they exist.

When you see that an editor has changed your meaning, by all means, email her or leave notes in the report correcting her. She may or may not appreciate it, but you have done your due diligence. You should also save all emails and changes you made in the report in case issues arise.

@KathyG wrote:

Do the companies actually see the original report, or just the edited version? After a good editor makes things all nice and neat the MSC may not have a clue.

Unless the editor saves a copy of the original report, no, the MSC does not see the original unless the MSC keeps a copy of the original, which is rare but not unheard of.

Lisa- good idea! This is my transitional year- first year home without any kids with me. I drop off the last at 9 and pick up the first at 2. My husband gets home the same time as my kids so in essence, I do what most stay at home moms get 40+ hours to do (figuring their husbands commute to work and work an 8-5ish job in about 25 hours. My husband starts work before we get up. I stay up late working. It works for now... as for tutoring, giving up nights and weekends isn’t for me just yet. Perhaps something will present itself to me in the future along those lines. For now, MS fits in line with my family’s dynamic and needs. I am producing three future shoppers and helping to develop their writing skills for now! Their teachers and future editors can be thankful for that.

@LisaSTL wrote:

Since you do not know what MSC this was for, and obviously do not know the policies of all MSCs, is it really proper to give advice without qualifying it is based on your own experience with one or two MSCs?

You also don't need to resurrect old threads then reply to multiply posts one at a time. If you insist on dredging these up, you can actually write just one post and address the various issues in that single post.

In reply to [www.mysteryshopforum.com]

@Jamiesan wrote:

@gotshops wrote:

I just resubmitted a report after an editor asked for clarification. She had partially edited my report and I saw many errors (hers, not mine). I corrected a few of those and then just gave up.

What bugged me more than her adding errors to my narratives was her changing the meaning of some of what I had reported.

Please don't "correct" her edits. She has to re-edit them. Maybe you are wrong about her errors, or maybe she was a lousy editor. Either way, you wasted her time and yours. She will have to be accountable for her errors if they exist.

When you see that an editor has changed your meaning, by all means, email her or leave notes in the report correcting her. She may or may not appreciate it, but you have done your due diligence. You should also save all emails and changes you made in the report in case issues arise.

I'm posting this PM in the related forum because I think it's an inappropriate PM and a bit bullying. This is not one member's forum; it's everyone's forum.

LisaSTL, I think it's obvious that I speak only for myself regarding the companies I do work for and have worked for.

"Resurrecting old threads"? "Dredging them up"? If I "insist"? Why such inflammatory language?
The last post here before mine was six weeks ago, hardly an old thread.

Lastly, please don't tell me how to post unless I compromise proprietary information or cross another line. I will afford you the same courtesy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2017 05:27AM by Jamiesan.

@Jamiesan wrote:

You're so right. Sometimes I think that students need to be taught English as a second language because they speak horrible "American" and aren't taught any better at home. It is sad.

I had a friend in college who tested into the ESL class... he didn’t speak any other language!! It was so sad.

@Jamiesan wrote:

@LisaSTL wrote:

Since you do not know what MSC this was for, and obviously do not know the policies of all MSCs, is it really proper to give advice without qualifying it is based on your own experience with one or two MSCs?

You also don't need to resurrect old threads then reply to multiply posts one at a time. If you insist on dredging these up, you can actually write just one post and address the various issues in that single post.

In reply to [www.mysteryshopforum.com]

@Jamiesan wrote:

@gotshops wrote:

I just resubmitted a report after an editor asked for clarification. She had partially edited my report and I saw many errors (hers, not mine). I corrected a few of those and then just gave up.

What bugged me more than her adding errors to my narratives was her changing the meaning of some of what I had reported.

Please don't "correct" her edits. She has to re-edit them. Maybe you are wrong about her errors, or maybe she was a lousy editor. Either way, you wasted her time and yours. She will have to be accountable for her errors if they exist.

When you see that an editor has changed your meaning, by all means, email her or leave notes in the report correcting her. She may or may not appreciate it, but you have done your due diligence. You should also save all emails and changes you made in the report in case issues arise.

I'm posting this PM in the related forum because I think it's an inappropriate PM and a bit bullying. This is not one member's forum; it's everyone's forum.

LisaSTL, I think it's obvious that I speak only for myself regarding the companies I do work for and have worked for.

"Resurrecting old threads"? "Dredging them up"? If I "insist"? Why such inflammatory language?
The last post here before mine was six weeks ago, hardly an old thread.

Lastly, please don't tell me how to post unless I compromise proprietary information or cross another line. I will afford you the same courtesy.

An an ex-editor, I am following this thread and find it interesting.

First, Jamiesan, I don't think anyone is bullying you. Get over the sensitivity. You are gung-ho to teach shoppers or to comment and you are dredging up very old threads to do it. I can see how that is a little irritating.

I do agree with some of what you've posted, particularly "Please don't "correct" her edits. She has to re-edit them. Maybe you are wrong about her errors, or maybe she was a lousy editor. Either way, you wasted her time and yours. She will have to be accountable for her errors if they exist." As a shopper who briefly edited and hated it, I discovered it took too much time and didn't pay, and shopping is much more fun and more lucrative. I now only shop and do not edit. I would tell shoppers that, when dealing with editors:

1. Stay in your lane. You do your job and let the editor do theirs.
2. Turn in your report. Then it belongs to the MSC and they can change it, edit it, delete things, add things, whatever they want. It belongs to them. Remember that your customer is the MSC, not the client.
3. If the editor comes back and asks for more info, give them what they ask for. No more, no less, and respond quickly. Editors don't want to have to contact you. An editor prefers a straight-forward report with all information. If the editor has to stop and take a lot of time on one report, it is time-consuming, annoying, and means they won't make any money on editing that report. Most editors prefer to fix a report themselves and not have to go back to the shopper. If too many editors come back and ask you for more information, you should examine your writing and your reports. It is actually not usual for a shopper to be contacted after report submission.
4. Do not argue with the editor about questions or edits. Once you turn it in, the report is not yours any more.
5. After getting your grade, if you have a serious issue, contact the editor. But if you just want to argue about the grade, don't bother. If you are getting paid, that's the goal.
6. Realize that the editor and the mystery shopper have the same goal in mind. Both want to get paid.
7. There is very little screening of shoppers, so there are some very, very bad shoppers and some who have no skills in grammar and sentence structure. There are also some very, very bad editors.
9. This is a fly-by-night profession. There's a lot of turnover. There are people with a lot of experience and people with no experience. There are people who are making a living, those who are picking up a little extra money, and people who won;t make money and will leave, probably quickly. There are some well educated, very intelligent people and some with little education and others who seem like absolute idiots. This pertains not only to shoppers, but to editors and schedulers.
10. If you get a grade lower than 10, try to not take it personal. As long as you are getting paid, the grade shouldn't matter. I prefer MSCs that do not post a grade for a shopper report.

Sorry for the soapbox. I couldn't resist.

Jay C, telling someone to get over the sensitivity is like telling someone to calm down; it doesn't necessarily work that way. If I am "gung-ho to teach shoppers or to comment," it's because I am first an editor, then a shopper. My posts are and will continue to be more focused on editing topics. I do want to help shoppers do better, which in turn also helps editors. Do you complain that shoppers' posts are gung-ho about teaching shoppers how to do better? I doubt it, but isn't that part of what this forum is about? Helping each other as well as commiserating? I think there are probably fewer editors here than shoppers. Otherwise you'd likely see more editor-type posts.

"Dredging up very old threads": This topic was from last year, hardly "very old." I have been gone for a while and haven't seen a couple of years' worth of threads. If they weren't to be seen, why still have them posted?

If anyone finds my posts irritating, stop reading them. Move on. "Get over the sensitivity."

THAT SAID, I agree with pretty much everything you said after that. It was great. Thank you for saying it. I hope everyone who didn't already know it will refer to your 10 items while writing reports. Kudos, Jay C. (I would make clapping hands, but I don't know how to do emoticons in this forum.)

Not about writing but since we've got some editors here...are you able to see the details (date/time) on photos attached to reports? If so, is it only with certain MSCs or platforms? I ask because I just had to clarify an hour's difference on photos that were not visibly date/time stamped. Not a problem, it was just that I had not changed the camera to reflect daylight savings and the setting to change automatically had been off. The thing is, I have used the camera for other projects and MSCs and no one else in the last month or so questioned it. And thank you all for helping us understand how things work on the other end!

The platforms I have worked on change the details on the photo once it's uploaded, so anything to ID where it came from, name, or date is lost (at least from editor's sight). I don't know if higher ups can somehow see it. If it's a decent quality photo, we can see the receipt's date printed on it, but I don't think that's what you mean.

I don't always ask for an explanation when the receipt shows a different time than the shopper states, and I've seen other editors' reports go through with the same issue, but it's always a good idea to mention in your report any time discrepancies.

@Jamiesan wrote:

(I would make clapping hands, but I don't know how to do emoticons in this forum.)

Bunches of emoticons here!! Scroll down to read how to make bunches of them. Don't know if clapping hands are there, but I do know "thumbs up" is there. HTH. [www.mysteryshopforum.com]

It shocks me how a lot of people don't know proper grammer.

Or spelling? lol

@DavePi wrote:

It shocks me how a lot of people don't know proper grammer.

@kimmiemae wrote:

Or spelling? lol

@DavePi wrote:

It shocks me how a lot of people don't know proper grammer.

It's "grammar", Dave!

Much important for use in writing grammer is.

Musing... Teaching to the test.. Teaching to the app... Tutoring for the app... Tutoring for narrative... Hmmmm.......

Carry on.