I just completed a shop at a luxury hotel and found myself providing tips that were not covered/approved by MSC. Has this happen to you all? How much do you actually tip?

A typical tipping guide from MSC:

No valet tip upon arrival
$1/bag up to $5 for bell man for arrival and departure
$2 tip for valet upon departure
No tip for housekeeping deliveries



I mean... I'm embarrassed to follow these tipping guidelines. At minimum, I'm tipping $5 per encounter, more if the room is located far away from the lobby. So I'm usually reimbursed around $15 of tips when I actually hand out around $30 of tips.

I've always understood that standard valet tip is for delivery, not drop off, but I detest valet and would never actually use it if it wasn't required. I always tip $5 for bell service and $5 for valet on departure. I do not tip for housekeeping. So yeah, those seem pretty standard to me.

For shops, I don’t tip beyond what’s reimbursed. For hotel staff outside the restaurant or bar, tips shouldn’t be expected by anyone. Certainly appreciated but they won’t miss it.

You mean to tell me that you pull up to a Ritz Carlton/Four Seasons and not tip valet when you drop off the car? Or when housekeeping brings you a huge bouquet of flowers and champagne and you don't tip them anything?

I know what the MSC is willing to reimburse but I also feel there is a human kindness element. We were staying at a resort and my husband was sick, so the staff went out of their way (without us asking) to get us hot tea and some healthy fruit... we tipped them $20 bucks.

@bgriffin wrote:

I've always understood that standard valet tip is for delivery, not drop off, but I detest valet and would never actually use it if it wasn't required. I always tip $5 for bell service and $5 for valet on departure. I do not tip for housekeeping. So yeah, those seem pretty standard to me.

Oh, woah. I guess I’m a good topper.

$2.00 for valet, ever time they touch my car or the car I arrive in/depart with.

$3.00 to $5.00 for bell services, depending on number of bags, if they bring ice to the room, and how I’m feeling. Minimum $3.00, or $1.00 per bag, whichever is greater.

$3.00 to $5.00ish for housekeeping stayover service, depending on the size of the room/suite. $5.00 minimum if it’s a suite. $3.00 for quick evening turndown service. These associates work very hard - probably at or close to minimum wage, and rely on tips to make a living wage, and some of these accommodations are huge, AND I’m the guest who smudges the mirror with lotion, leaves the ironing board and iron out, hangs some towels and leaves some towels on the floor, leaves an article of clothing on the bed, throws my change on the desk and leaves my shoes unpaired in a haphazard manner.

$1.00 to $2.00 for delivery of items to the room/suite.

$1.00 to $2.00 to whoever runs me and my guest from one end of the resort to the other, or from the lobby to our very far/from-the-lobby room/suite/villa/over water bungalow in a golf cart or shuttle.

I usually tip the concierge if they’ve been instrumental in making my stay enjoyable.

Accounting always reminds me of the maximum allowable, but there's no way I’m just tipping housekeeping $2.00 a day.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 04:51PM by Professional Guest.

I was in the service industry for a decade, so I probably overtip everyone whether it's a shop or just basic life. I always tip for housekeeping, usually $3-5, usually a bit more if my boyfriend is with me because we always have extra trash and recycling (take out and beer snobs lol). For room service or something extra that I requested or was brought up as a courtesy, I'd generally give $5-10 depending on what it is. I also worked for a parking company for 5 years and tips are generally expected when the car is delivered, not dropped off and anything from $2-5 is standard.

I realize that we are not in this business to lose money on jobs, but I'd feel like a jerk if I didn't tip like I normally would if I wasn't on a shop, whether it was fully reimbursed or not.

@Professional Guest wrote:

Oh, woah. I guess I’m a good topper.

TIPPER. I’m a good tipper. Or, topper. Whatever. (I’m laughing out loud.).

@LindaM wrote:

You mean to tell me that you pull up to a Ritz Carlton/Four Seasons and not tip valet when you drop off the car? Or when housekeeping brings you a huge bouquet of flowers and champagne and you don't tip them anything?

I know what the MSC is willing to reimburse but I also feel there is a human kindness element. We were staying at a resort and my husband was sick, so the staff went out of their way (without us asking) to get us hot tea and some healthy fruit... we tipped them $20 bucks.

I've always understood that valet tipping is at pick up. It is my understanding that valet tips are pooled and not kept by the individual valet. So it makes absolutely no difference if you tip $2 at drop off and $3 at pick up or just $5 at pick up. I also tip based on when my car is delivered. If I call at 10:00 and tell them I'll be down in 15 minutes and the car shows up at 10:30 they're not getting a tip.

I don't ask for flowers or champagne to be delivered to my room and would be annoyed if it happened spontaneously, so no I would not tip for being interrupted.

That was a specific example of someone going above and beyond. You asked for normal experience. I agree I would have definitely tipped in that instance.

What you tip on your own is up to you, but MSC guidelines are generally there for a reason and when you deviate from them, you are essentially not following the shop instructions, and not serving the end client.

If the assignment required you to ask the concierge about a good steakhouse in the area, but you are vegetarian, you would still perform the test...yes? Though it may go against your values, it's the same with tipping.

The reality is that the tipping guidelines is an average. Some people don't tip valet staff at all. Others give them $5, but most people give them $2 (even at 5-star properties) so $2 is the average and they want you to test service for an AVERAGE guest. Not a high tipper! We do things on shops al of the time that are out of character.

Case in point; A certain hotel assignment used to specifically require the shopper to stiff the bellman on arrival when they collected the luggage and report on the response. I was absolutely put off by the request and mentioned it to another shopper that had recently been to the hotel. They told me that they just tipped the bellman out of guilt and didn't claim the tip for reimbursement. I decided to go through with the test and it was honestly really difficult to do. The bellman stuck out it hand for tip in the end after giving really awesome service (It is a very famous 5-star hotel in NYC) and I just shook his hand, then walked away. My luggage never arrived in the room!

It took hours to hunt the luggage down, BTW. They finally found it with no tags on it placed behind a door in the bell closet. Now, I get it that the bellman was pissed, but there are a variety of reasons why a customer may not tip and does a 5-star property want bags going missing for everyone who doesn't tip the bellman?

Was the client serviced by receiving the information? Definitely. Was it a horrible MS experience. Absolutely!...but that's the job.

Valet tip only on departure. $3-5 bell in and out. Remember, state laws allow any tipped employees to be paid FAR less than the state minimum wage! In most places valet tips are NOT pooled. So,, if there is more than one valet, they usually agree to take turns retrieving vehicles. Bar and restaurant servers: 15-30%, based on the quality of service. (Former server in both bars and restaurants here.) I do not mind incurring some personal cost for tips for service excellence.

I do think there's a difference between specifically being asked not to tip to test a scenario than a standard/unchanged tip guidelines year after year. A couple of MSCs that shall remain nameless have the same tipping guidelines for the last 5+ years.

In that same time frame, the standard tipping for servers at high end restaurants have gone up. I think the same case should be true to hotel staffers.

It's quite obvious that your OP was not actually a question wanting a range of opinions but an opinion that you simply want people to agree to.

We can have a discussion and exploration of different points of view. I understand your comments and want to share what I think. I appreciate the comments and take what everyone say into consideration for my upcoming visit.

Your little snotty remark is also appreciated.

@bgriffin wrote:

It's quite obvious that your OP was not actually a question wanting a range of opinions but an opinion that you simply want people to agree to.

@walesmaven wrote:

Remember, state laws allow any tipped employees to be paid FAR less than the state minimum wage!

Yes, and that is what I usually base tipping on. I don't tip people who get a full wage because they are already being paid to perform this function. If they are underpaid that is between them and their employer, not me.

@walesmaven wrote:

In most places valet tips are NOT pooled.

Interesting. I have always thought the opposite, but I've certainly been wrong before (several times already today).

@LindaM wrote:

We can have a discussion and exploration of different points of view. I understand your comments and want to share what I think. I appreciate the comments and take what everyone say into consideration for my upcoming visit.

Your little snotty remark is also appreciated.

We absolutely can but you seem more interested in telling others their opinion is wrong.

I always tip housekeeping well, especially if I am staying multiple nights. It is back-breaking work for very little money. Tipping also ensures I get extra coffee, etc in my room. If I were doing a shop that didn't allow or want me to tip for fear it would alter the experience I would just tip on the last day as I was leaving.

It's quite natural for anyone to explain and convince others of their point of view.

While I stay confused on the topic, you like to judge the person... like you think you know me. Thank you.

You asked an opinion. I replied with my opinion. You replied with examples still questioning my opinion. I again explained my opinion and you replied that tipping has gone up overall and I'm wrong.

I don't think you're confused, I think you already have a strong opinion. That's fine, and I absolutely have a strong opinion as well, but I haven't asked people's opinions and then tried to convince them of mine. I simply answered your question. You can find me snotty or not I honestly couldn't care less.

Have a great day and I hope you get your opinion validated!

...and there's also a difference between 'tipping guidelines' and 'suggested tips', or 'maximum tip reimbursement'.

I am embarrassed to do 50% of the tasks asked of me on hotel assignments. The MSC employees and shoppers are also getting the same pay they were 10 years ago. Less in some circumstances.

Here's the reality; You are not staying in the hotel as an actual guest. The staff there are essentially co-workers. It's great that you want your co-workers to be paid more and are willing to take money out of your own pocket to ensure that. I wish more people at my workplace were like that. However, as much as you may feel like a VIP staying at that hotel, you are there on an assignment.

Either stay there on your own dime and be as generous as you want with your tips, or follow the guidelines. At a minimum, you should ask the MSC if they mind you increasing the tips. I have requested an allowance for increased tips at certain resorts and received it.

BTW, before there were tipping guidelines for the MSC I used to work for, it may not be surprising to know that shoppers went overboard with tips. It was particularly heinous when shoppers would offer a narrative the tipping experience, such as, "I gave the bellman a $20 and didn't even get a smile." There was a basic lack of understanding that the person reading the report was footing the bill for the extravagant tip.

It's easy to be generous with $15 when the other 50% of tips and the entire hotel bill are being covered. I think the real embarrassment in undertipping is the fear that the truth may be more evident with a poor tip: Most of us cannot really afford to stay at that property...

A quick search on valet tips and if they are pooled or not really only came up with one decent bit of information:

[www.quora.com]

I was debating making a post similar to this one... I would add one note: Sometimes the client specifically does NOT want employees tipped by the shopper. I did one such shop at a valet - the issue was that the employees were reported to be specifically soliciting tips and the client needed to get to the bottom of it.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

...and there's also a difference between 'tipping guidelines' and 'suggested tips', or 'maximum tip reimbursement'.

I am embarrassed to do 50% of the tasks asked of me on hotel assignments. The MSC employees and shoppers are also getting the same pay they were 10 years ago. Less in some circumstances.

Here's the reality; You are not staying in the hotel as an actual guest. The staff there are essentially co-workers. It's great that you want your co-workers to be paid more and are willing to take money out of your own pocket to ensure that. I wish more people at my workplace were like that. However, as much as you may feel like a VIP staying at that hotel, you are there on an assignment.

Either stay there on your own dime and be as generous as you want with your tips, or follow the guidelines. At a minimum, you should ask the MSC if they mind you increasing the tips. I have requested an allowance for increased tips at certain resorts and received it.

BTW, before there were tipping guidelines for the MSC I used to work for, it may not be surprising to know that shoppers went overboard with tips. It was particularly heinous when shoppers would offer a narrative the tipping experience, such as, "I gave the bellman a $20 and didn't even get a smile." There was a basic lack of understanding that the person reading the report was footing the bill for the extravagant tip.

It's easy to be generous with $15 when the other 50% of tips and the entire hotel bill are being covered. I think the real embarrassment in undertipping is the fear that the truth may be more evident with a poor tip: Most of us cannot really afford to stay at that property...

bg,
ALL of the major city valet shops that I do, in many cities, happen to have particularly strong unions. While local contracts between the unionized workers and the management company may vary, the trend has been toward not splitting tips. The site that you sited appears to be answering questions mainly about restaurant valet parking (unless I missed something by reading only 4-5 answered questions there) , which is quite another kettle of fish, since a majority of restaurant valet operations are not unionized except in a few, very unionized, cities where most restaurant workers (inside) are also unionized,. (But usually by a different union.) Many, if not most, restaurant valet operations are NOT managed by the big parking management companies. And, some high end hotels also self-manage parking attendants. (My sources: 20+ years with a service industry union organizer partner, plus advanced degrees in Labor Relations and Economics, plus hotel and restaurant experience, plus thousands of valet parking shops. I can spot that "union label" at 40 paces! lol )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 06:47PM by walesmaven.

The answers on the link I posted was from the CEO of a parking services company that seems to work in SoCal who specifically said all of their hotel valet operations pool tips and from a person employed as a valet who also said tips are usually pooled. My google search mostly resulted in how much you should pay links.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

I think the real embarrassment in undertipping is the fear that the truth may be more evident with a poor tip: Most of us cannot really afford to stay at that property...

I feel like that can come out as much with over-tipping. Whatever you do on a shop should be natural.

Other people are sharing their guilt reasons for tipping. I have worked a few service jobs. Saw coworkers vary their service based on who they thought was worth it and gave extras for free to their regulars. Sometimes they even demanded tips. I always made more in total just by giving fair and consistent service. I guess that’s why I feel level about it now. No one starves because one person didn’t give them $5. If they’re holding out a hand, they might as well stand on the corner.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 06:54PM by 1cent.

I tip as service given requires whether working or not. I do not over tip, 2.00 valet upon leaving, usually 2.00 for bringing luggage up to room. Good restaurants get 18%, bartenders get tipped. Working and instructions say, do not tip, I wouldn't tip, yes it looks bad and would make me cringe, but I'd feel they had their reasons. Tipping for customers is personal, some are big tippers giving 25% and that's o.k. Being a woman dining alone at these places more than not, I find service is given first to a table of two or four (bigger tip). I notice that and it goes into my tip. This happens in casual restaurants as well. Holding out one's hand as stated above would turn me off and my answer would be a smaller tip, just because that's too aggressive. The old standard of 15% for so so service and 18% for good service with an occasional 20% works for me. Not concerned about getting fully reimbursed, if service is great, I'm happy to go over the reimbursement.

@walesmaven wrote:

... Remember, state laws allow any tipped employees to be paid FAR less than the state minimum wage! .

Here is the wage story in Los Angeles and Santa Monica....this article is from 2014 so since then there may have been changes along with the minimum wage for everyone going up.
(copied from the Wall street Journal)
Los Angeles Approves Raising Minimum Wage for Large-Hotel Workers
City Council Votes to Increase Hourly Rate to $15.37, One of Nation's Highest Minimum Wages
By Erica E. Phillips and
Eric Morath
Sept. 24, 2014 5:30 p.m. ET

LOS ANGELES—The City Council approved one of the nation's highest minimum wages for workers at large hotels here.

In a 12-3 vote on Wednesday, council members backed an ordinance establishing a minimum hourly wage of $15.37 for workers at Los Angeles hotels with at least 125 guest rooms. If passed in a final vote next week, the ordinance would go into effect in July for hotels with more than 300 rooms. Those with at least 125 but fewer than 300 would have to comply by July 2016.

@1cent wrote:

Other people are sharing their guilt reasons for tipping. I have worked a few service jobs. Saw coworkers vary their service based on who they thought was worth it and gave extras for free to their regulars. Sometimes they even demanded tips. I always made more in total just by giving fair and consistent service. I guess that’s why I feel level about it now. No one starves because one person didn’t give them $5. If they’re holding out a hand, they might as well stand on the corner.

I also feel like a lot of people don't really get a grasp of how much they're tipping. I mean yes they know the dollar amount they are tipping but they don't really break that down to a per hour amount when they do it. Consider these examples:

Let's say you go to a restaurant that runs you $200 for a couple and lets say your waiter only has 2 tables (probably 4 but I digress). Your entire experience is exactly 1 hour and you tip 20%. Your tip comes to $40. Sure the waiter has to tip out the bartender and busboy but he's still keeping $30 of that tip. And he has 2 tables. So he's making $60 an hour. And likely has more than 2 tables. And yet people are going to turn their noses up at someone who sticks with the old standard of 15%. Where the waiter is still making $40 an hour which is well above median income in every single market in the US.

Let's say you're a hotel housekeeper where you clean an average of 12 rooms a day in an 8 hour shift. The average is actually 13-15 but let's stick with 12 because math. If everyone tips $5 as was suggested above then that's an extra $60 of untaxed income per day for the housekeeper. Or $7.50 per hour which, after the tax benefit, is worth more per hour than their salary if it was minimum wage. Now can we have a discussion about minimum wage? Absolutely, but that's not germane to the subject. Even in somewhere like Seattle where minimum wage is already $15 an hour you're adding a 50% bump to their salary. Just because you feel bad their employer isn't paying them what they're worth.

Or take our valet example. In an 8 hour shift a hotel valet will likely touch a car 40 times. That's 5 an hour, which seems low but we'll go with it. At the suggested $5 per above that's $200, or $50 per hour, in addition to their pay (which is likely tipped employee levels so we'll call it nonexistent). $50 per hour would be an earning rate of $100,000 per year. But hey we should all tip that much...……..

Removed

Just to add in my opinion. When tipping in a restaurant I mostly tip 20% before the tax. Tax should not be included in the tip because the tax is not what I'm paying for. I am paying for service only. I also think 20% is a really good tip.

Well...many of the valet workers (especially in California) are not employees of the hotel, evidenced by the recent round of valet shops for luxury hotels that cropped up the MSC that services a lot of these hotels

Mind you, that offers brand new instruction set for brand new client; $2 valet tip on departure only! That's the standard....and if you are at a Four Seasons for this MSC, I'm seriously doubting that your valet tips are being reimbursed at all. I tip at my leisure when visiting those properties but many of them out of the USA don't even accept tips.

@bgriffin wrote:

In an 8 hour shift a hotel valet will likely touch a car 40 times. That's 5 an hour, which seems low but we'll go with it. At the suggested $5 per above that's $200, or $50 per hour, in addition to their pay.

BG, an old roommate of mine is a valet at a Marriott property in LA and makes a good living at it. He's definitely touching more than 40 cars in a day at an average of $2 each and supports a family on what he earns.