Not to throw gas on the fire but wouldn't a hermaphrodite be referred to as they?

And truthfully I am in the he/she camp on this one.

Some MSCs don't allow race, age, or other descriptors in identifying the employee you dealt with. You just have to read the guidelines or wait for the editor to correct you.

There have been a few employees who were male but appeared to be trans female and I was not sure what to put. One was at a Walmart, was a guy, but said, "I'm a cheap girl," when responding to a question about which product they would recommend. He/they/she had a deep voice, had on androgynous clothing, and used feminine pronouns. So, what do you put?? I don't remember what I put.

I did two cell shops edited by the same editor. I used He/She and got marked down on one but not the other for not using gender neutral. I refuse to use they/them. I will use the associate from now on.

It's easy enough to avoid it altogether by simply referring to the subject person as, "The (insert job title here)."
The server, the clerk, the salesperson, etc.

@shawnthewoman wrote:

I have encountered this, and I refused to do it. I explained to the editor that I learned from many years of English classes that using "they" when referring to a singular subject was incorrect and that I refuse to start using bad grammar now. This is especially true since the editors are always so quick to ding us for grammar mistakes. Hasn't been an issue since.

Except it's no longer considered "bad grammar". Languages change and evolve. APA, MLA, and the Oxford-English dictionary now endorse the use of "they" as a singular pronoun.

At one of the grocery stores there was a cashier that was a trans woman. When she signed into her register it showed her name was Jesse, but the name tag she wore on her shirt said Tuesday. I put her name on the report as Tuesday, and I was questioned about why I would did not use the name on the receipt (Previous MSC). I simply explained that they hadn't changed her name in the employee system yet.

mysterioso412 opines--Languages change and evolve.

Bob comments--In my opinion, English is in the process of devolving.

@shopperbob wrote:

mysterioso412 opines--Languages change and evolve.

Bob comments--In my opinion, English is in the process of devolving.

True dat - see what I did there?

@maverick1 wrote:

@shopperbob wrote:

mysterioso412 opines--Languages change and evolve.

Bob comments--In my opinion, English is in the process of devolving.

True dat - see what I did there?

Thy speech be sooth.

@Morledzep wrote:

At one of the grocery stores there was a cashier that was a trans woman. When she signed into her register it showed her name was Jesse, but the name tag she wore on her shirt said Tuesday. I put her name on the report as Tuesday, and I was questioned about why I would did not use the name on the receipt (Previous MSC). I simply explained that they hadn't changed her name in the employee system yet.

I've had grocery shops where the cashier wore someone else's name tag. She had one on when I entered the store and interacted with her and a different one when I checked out.

How do you call someone "T" when the name tag says Jasmine? Her teammates knew her with a T name which was what she wore when I entered the store. The name tag she wore when I checked out said Jasmine.

I have never encountered/performed a shop asking for the use of they/them pronouns. I would comply although using a plural pronoun as singular would be difficult for me to write.

Regarding mental illness? Jeopardy fans, check out Amy Schneider and her mental/intellectual prowess.

Interesting and good point about Amy Schneider. Illness is not necessarily a lack of intellect. I surmise that the poster to whom you refer was working along the lines of satisfaction, contentment, and acceptance. Amy, as she is now known, was unable to carry on as she perceived herself to be prior to transition. But the poster can speak for--erm-- whoever their self is, if they choose to do so.

To me, it is interesting that academic and literary organizations now accept they as a singular. No sound language-oriented reason for that change has been provided. Neutralizing a perception of a noun by changing numerical reference is not logical... and even though I reeked in math, I will state that it might even be improper according to the principles of reduction in that subject area. Where are our math teachers?! I need more information, please.

@Madetoshop wrote:

I have never encountered/performed a shop asking for the use of they/them pronouns. I would comply although using a plural pronoun as singular would be difficult for me to write.

Regarding mental illness? Jeopardy fans, check out Amy Schneider and her mental/intellectual prowess.

[www.scu.edu]

@BusyBeeBuzzBuzzBuzz wrote:

[www.scu.edu]

So, um, you mean you'll reference guidance from the same college elites who won't step down after tolerating antisemitism on their campuses?
[www.bloomberg.com]

Huntsman has withdrawn funding from Penn due to that school's response, or lack thereof, to antisemitism in the wake of the recent Hamas attack on Israel. @maverick1: you got it right again. Underlying 'they' and the acceptance of antisemitism is a rampant and years old social engineering scheme whereby only a few people matter to the few powerful people in certain academic circles. Fortunately, there are some persons within academia who are positioned to hold an opposing view and survive. Other people outside of academia such as Huntsman are taking a stand and, sometimes, re-educating. Why do we go to college now if we emerge with a degree and a need to be re-educated? Oh, yeah. It is because they like it this way.

What a strange response!

The same college elites? The article you cited was about UPenn and the article I cited was from SCU. Are you saying all colleges are the same or are you saying any guidance from a college should be ignored?

Would you say the same about guidance from Abilene Christian University or Liberty University? I wonder.

@maverick1 wrote:

@BusyBeeBuzzBuzzBuzz wrote:

[www.scu.edu]

So, um, you mean you'll reference guidance from the same college elites who won't step down after tolerating antisemitism on their campuses?
[www.bloomberg.com]

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Huntsman has withdrawn funding from Penn due to that school's response, or lack thereof, to antisemitism in the wake of the recent Hamas attack on Israel. @maverick1: you got it right again. Underlying 'they' and the acceptance of antisemitism is a rampant and years old social engineering scheme whereby only a few people matter to the few powerful people in certain academic circles. Fortunately, there are some persons within academia who are positioned to hold an opposing view and survive. Other people outside of academia such as Huntsman are taking a stand and, sometimes, re-educating. Why do we go to college now if we emerge with a degree and a need to be re-educated? Oh, yeah. It is because they like it this way.

Yep, looks like those "elitist" heads are starting to roll. Funny how money talks, people listen. And yes, this will reverberate at ALL colleges.
[thehill.com]

Time was using they or them to refer to an individual was considered lousy grammar.

The grammar devolution was already in play way back when in the last century, when I was in the dinosaur days of college. Fortunately, a few tenured professors upheld standards and spoke up about the modern values. Why should they (assorted professors) accept improper grammer, unique spelling, and other factors which might produce ambiguous messages? Professors were instructed to accept shoddy work as long as the message was understood. These professors wondered: how were they to decipher the intended message?

This was not ESL, second or third language for native English speakers, or remedial work in which students are allowed to learn from inevitable mistakes. This was the university-wide standard.

I will throw my comment in even though my experience with they/them is limited in scope. I am heterosexual and call myself she. Just want to put that on the record. But aside from that I have now out of a total of 4 grandchildren in my family (all are grandchildren of my brothers) who are mid age teens 2 that see themselves as they. As much as I feel that a different word should have been used that did not hijack a very useful word as a pronoun, of the two family members I know, both of them see themselves as 2 entities, or sexes or whatever one might call it in one body. They both say somedays they feel feminine and other days they feel more masculine and that to them at least , explains the use of the plural they Some are adopting the word they out of support for those who feel like a they but it appears to me at least, and I expect to be corrected by many of you, that those who feel they are only one sex (for instance genetically a male but see themselves as a female 100% of the time) still would refer to themselves as she and not as they.

Amy Schneider is the smartest female ever to play Jeopardy!

[www.nbcnews.com]

I'd say I'm shocked at the number of people here who are loud and proud bigots, but I'm not. Haters always gotta have somethin' they can hate to make up for the patheticness of their own lives.

My opinion is that humans with a penis do not belong in a women's locker or rest room nor should they be permitted to athletically compete against women. If my manner of thinking constitutes me being a bigot, so be it.

If the guidelines do not specifically prohibit using he/she pronouns, then shoppers are free to use those pronouns. There is always the possibility of using the wrong pronouns, though.

@BarefootBliss wrote:

Whenever we are asked to provide a description of the person/persons we interacted with, gender is usually asked. I provide the gender to the best that I can ascertain it....and use the pronouns that fit the gender...so....?

I am a cis-gendered female and my pronouns are she/her. I am sometimes misgendered and I am never offended or hurt if the misgendering is due to a simple mistake. I can only imagine how some transgendered or non-binary people may feel when they are misgendered.

When I was in high school, one silly person got egged on by his "friends" to use he/him to try to hurt and insult me. I was annoyed rather than hurt or insulted. I was also amused and slightly saddened because his "friends" thought it was funny that he did not know how to respond when I let him know I would refer to him as she/her if he continued to misgender me. He soon stopped.

@GinnyLynn wrote:

If a company has a preference on such, I do what the client wants. When in doubt, I use they anyway. One of the companies recently asked me to update my gender preferences before I took another assignment, so I did. I am she/her. I am a tall female and have been fairly athletic for most of my adult life. I have been misgendered on occasion, but this is not something I am going to sue anybody about. I don't care.

Given that I have on occasion been mis-gendered, the current level of controversary on the issue baffles me. As the saying goes, it is what it is though, and these are the times we live in. I think mystery shoppers are frequently on the front end of things when things start changing, and we are definitely seeing a change in attitudes on this issue.

People have different reasons and beliefs. Many who are against using they/them as third-person singular pronouns are not bigots or haters. Personally, I would only label one poster in this thread a bigot.

@weatherman2111 wrote:

I'd say I'm shocked at the number of people here who are loud and proud bigots, but I'm not. Haters always gotta have somethin' they can hate to make up for the patheticness of their own lives.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2023 08:04PM by BusyBeeBuzzBuzzBuzz.

@shawnthewoman wrote:

I have encountered this, and I refused to do it. I explained to the editor that I learned from many years of English classes that using "they" when referring to a singular subject was incorrect and that I refuse to start using bad grammar now. This is especially true since the editors are always so quick to ding us for grammar mistakes. Hasn't been an issue since.

I received a percentage reduction and red mark corrections on a paper I wrote in college when I used "they" when referring to a single individual as a source cited. The souce name was an initial followed by surname. It didn't occur to me then that I could've used "the author", "the researcher",... Ironically? This was a course from the "Women's Studies" department, early 2000's. I believe the dept. has been renamed "Gender Studies". I haven't kept myself current on gender identity issues. Out of curiosity, I'll lookup what it means when someone identifies as "they".

@shopperbob wrote:

My opinion is that humans with a penis do not belong in a women's locker or rest room nor should they be permitted to athletically compete against women. If my manner of thinking constitutes me being a bigot, so be it.

At least you admit it. First step on the healing process

I sort of like they/them, it goes well with the native language when referring to people who are two-spirited. Why do people have a hard time calling people what they would like to be called?

I worked in the writing center at a major university for several years. I'm not the grammar police, but I'm old school and try to be correct in my writing.

I got dinged for using "he/she/him/her" in the cell phone shops. It's not natural for me to use "they/them" in the way they want because "they/them" are plural pronouns, not singular.

So, rather than this: "The associate asked what brand I currently used. He said Brand XYZ made good devices...."

I will give them this: "The associate asked what brand I currently used. The associate said Brand XYZ made good devices....."

If they want gender-neutral, I'll give them gender-neutral, but I'm not going to be grammatically incorrect when it's suddenly convenient for them, not when they've been marking me off for those mistakes for years.

It's funny how nitpicky mysteryshopping@treatyoulikecrapMSC.com is for this client, yet they don't care when it comes to others. I know we'll never have uniformity across the board among MSCs, but at least let's decide one way or the other at each MSC and stick to it. This "which way do they want it on this one" thing gives me whiplash.

On a side note, I find it offensive when I do "grizzly" appliance shops at home improvement stores for Brand S, and they want to know the associate's age, height, hair color, and race, even with the associate's name. Why is that demographic information (especially race) pertinent to them? I could MAYBE see it if it was their branded store and I didn't have the name, but to want that information for a third-party store associate when you have zero interest in customer service metrics? Give me a break.