When will you feel safe regularly going out in public again?

Since I have been in quarantine since March 27th other than a few times in a public park (not within distance of others while breathing), I find that highly doubtful.

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And this reinforces my decision to not attempt to engage with you on this public forum. Why I did so this time is beyond my comprehension. SMH at myself.

@shoptastic wrote:

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I'm thinking of pulling out the hacking cough trick next time. Really. If I see someone isn't going to move over, when they get within five feet I can start that fake dry cough and see what happens!

I wouldn't, b/c you could be an asymptomatic carrier. smiling smiley
So we went near the wild spaces today. Only a few vehicles were there, and I did not see people otherwise. This is a good thing. People are going to the few nearby accessible places and getting into nature for awhile. I did not have my hiking shoes on because we were only doing a look-see to make an educated guess regarding the best first day for us to take a hike. (We do not want to find snow on a trail!) Suggestions from the forum notwithstanding, 2 - 3 weeks from now will be perfect to start day hikes.

When I walked to the mailbox, I had to make a wide pass around someone's play time. It looked fun, whatever it was... Later, I saw that they had made a full sidewalk mural with their sidewalk chalk. Cute! smiling smiley

If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music. - Gustav Mahler
Suggesting one should not cough, even in jest or frustration, because there is always the possibility of being asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic does not come across to me as an improper post.

Your response sounds unnecessarily mean spirited.
@JASFLALMT wrote:

And this reinforces my decision to not attempt to engage with you on this public forum. Why I did so this time is beyond my comprehension. SMH at myself.

@shoptastic wrote:

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I'm thinking of pulling out the hacking cough trick next time. Really. If I see someone isn't going to move over, when they get within five feet I can start that fake dry cough and see what happens!

I wouldn't, b/c you could be an asymptomatic carrier. smiling smiley

JAS - I did not mean that with any kind of intended offense. I was actually a little worried myself that I might have come across as negatively insinuating and posted a smiley to show good intent/will.

Maybe I should have written a little something extra to avoid possible wrong reading of my thought, but I was just reminding you (& others) that all of us can be potentially asymptomatic carriers and a "joking"/deterring cough could actually have consequences we hadn't considered.

SORRRRRY if that came off as some weird insinuation that you are a carrier! *No offense intended*
So, today we were reminded about how precious students are. Few of them are still on campus, but signs on the buildings blare that campus is for students and anyone who has questions can call the cops.

This university typically opens some features to the public. For now, it is best to restrict access to the entire campus. We can be there for a few moments for work, but we cannot go to the libraries, botany, and planetarium on our free time for awhile.This is okay. We are just 2.5 weeks from Nature treks!

If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music. - Gustav Mahler
It is interesting to me that societally we are offended by a carrier and sympathetic to a victim. Personally, I think it is appropriate for us to be offended by those seeming to take unnecessary risks and potentially exposing others. We may need a mental change in the next few months as we now have twice as many confirmed cases that recovered as we have had deaths and I am sure we are all hoping that the number of recoveries will quickly rise to a still higher multiple. We likely have lots of folks who were not confirmed cases who show up with testing to have antibodies because their cases were from before the 'officially confirmed first case on US soil' or they just weren't sick enough to qualify for testing. I would be willing to bet that every man, woman and child on the Diamond Princess would test positive for antibodies, even if they did not ever appear to be sick--no part of a petri dish is immune from infection.

If I recovered and had antibodies, I would joyfully drop my mask in the garbage! But wait . . . can I still be a carrier? We don't know. Can I get it again? We don't know. I am deeply concerned that the 'prioritizing of what the public should know' that first told us NOT to wear masks ("Ineffectual, more likely to make you sick if you don't know how to use them, won't protect you but rather others from you" ) and then did a 180 to MUST wear masks ("effective, will insure your safety as well as those around you" ) once enough masks were available for first responders, is not sharing with us the information we actually need to run our own lives.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2020 05:54PM by Flash.
A neighbor in my "Nextdoor" group posted this 10 days ago. It seems to be a very well thought-out post.....there have been 35 comments in responding to his post....NONE of them have been negative. I think I'd like to share this here and see what y'all think.......
==============================
Coronavirus

WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME BOAT...

I heard it said that we are all in the same boat, but it's not like that. We are in the same storm, but not in the same boat. Your ship could be shipwrecked and mine might not be. Or vice versa.

For some, quarantine is optimal: a moment of reflection, of re-connection, easy in flip flops, with a cocktail or coffee. For others, this is a desperate financial & family crisis.

In some homes a sole occupant faces endless loneliness. In others, family members are getting peace, rest, and time with each other — while in still others, quarantine means an increased danger due to domestic violence.

With the $600 weekly increase in unemployment some are bringing in more money to their households than they were working. Others are working more hours for less money due to pay cuts or loss in sales.

Some families of 4 just received $3400 from the stimulus while other families of 4 saw $0.

Some were concerned about getting a certain candy for Easter while others were concerned if there would be enough bread, milk and eggs for the weekend.

Some want to go back to work because they don't qualify for unemployment and are running out of money. Others want to kill those who break the quarantine.

Some are home spending 2-3 hours/day helping their child with online schooling while others are spending 2-3 hours/day to educate their children on top of a 10-12 hour workday.

Some have experienced the near death of the virus, some have already lost someone from it and some are not sure if their loved ones are going to make it. Others don't believe this is a big deal.

Some have faith in God and expect miracles during 2020.

Others say the worst is yet to come...

So, friends, we are not in the same boat. We are going through a time when our perceptions and needs are completely different.

Each of us will emerge, in our own way, from this storm. It is very important to see beyond what is seen at first glance. Not just looking, actually seeing.

We are all on different ships during this storm experiencing a very different journey.
Of course saying anything negative about it would be like kicking kittens--an immediately ostracizable event. Realistically, is there anything in there that you weren't already acutely aware of? He/she is missing comments about healthcare workers living in tents in their backyards to avoid possibly infecting their children and a number of other situations the TV news has chosen to focus us on to know how good we personally really have it.

The phrase "We are All in This Together" is rather intended, I believe, as a unifying statement coming at a time when our country has been exhibiting its ugliest, most divisive, most racist (more subtly but more dangerous), most xenophobic, most greedy and most class conscious of times in my life experience.
On my journey, I travel with hope and peace. What is in your knapsack?

If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music. - Gustav Mahler
Face masks and hand sanitizer.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

On my journey, I travel with hope and peace. What is in your knapsack?
[www.cnn.com]

CNN has a state-by-state log of plans to re-open individual economies.

My state of Virginia is still sheltering until June 10:
@ wrote:

Gov. Ralph Northam issued a stay-at-home order effective until June 10.

“We will move forward, but in a way that prioritizes public health and builds public confidence,” Northam said. “Businesses know that customers will return only when they feel that it is safe to do so. Our blueprint for the path forward is data-driven and provides clear guidance, so Virginians will know what to expect and understand how we will decide to when to lift certain public health restrictions.”

Phase one of the “Forward Virginia” blueprint, which includes continued social distancing, teleworking, limits on travel and public gatherings, and recommended use of face covering, will begin no sooner than two weeks from now to allow for a 14-day downward trend in confirmed Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations.

Northam has made it clear that the state must make decisions based on "science, public health expertise, and data," Secretary of Health and Human Resources Daniel Carey said.

I am honestly surprised by the speed with which we're moving as a country. We JUST had peak NY/NJ cases and deaths. NY did not shelter in place until March 20th! Just a little over a month ago. Many other non-NY/NJ states' cases are GROWING.

Personally, I wish there were a federal standard (overriding states) law that gave us another 15 to 20 more days or so of being closed. Peak cases also implies PEAK INFECTIOUSNESS, no? Just because your KNOWN/tested cases are slowing in growth doesn't mean people aren't still infectious.

Not sure how things will go, but hoping we don't rapidly grow in cases everywhere again.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2020 09:10PM by shoptastic.
Just curious, are there any bans against travelling between states or even within counties within states? any orders requiring quarantine when entering a state? I think if I was in a state bordering a high COVID incidence state I'd feel more comfortable if those types of bans/quarantines were in place.
A few weeks ago Texas had one. Someone who works for my husband's company was traveling from Alabama to Texas for work and got stopped at the Texas border. He had to prove he was going there for business and they made him give a destination address. The next day the troopers showed up to make sure he was there. He had no problems leaving the state. But now Texas is opening back up so not sure about border travel now. I am sure some other states will keep whatever they already have in place.
Florida slapped a ban on folks coming from NY, NJ and I think it was CT. I don't know if that is still in place or not. Our governor is a 'yes' man to the current President so if he is told to open, he will--regardless. If he is not told from above, he will do nothing and let the chips fall where they may when the current shut down expires. Thus the decision making is down to the county level, where the county commissions are quaking in their boots over potential liability if they open as well as if they don't open. After all, they want to be re-elected! So the cities and towns are pretty much deciding for themselves. Before this is all said and done there will be businesses open on one side of the street but not the other as the city limits run down the center of the street.

Some business owners are indicating that they are taking a wait and see approach. As their colleagues open back up they will see if the public is exhibiting proper precautions voluntarily. Only then will they put their families and employees at risk.
@Flash wrote:

After all, they want to be re-elected!
Despite all the speeches and "spin," that's the bottom line, isn't it? Re-election is their only goal.
The people not practicing social distancing and not being respectful of others while out in public spaces are the highest version of @$$hole that there is. The beach isn't open because they don't want tourists. The little "park" by the lake down the street from me is closed, but the sidewalk that surrounds it is obviously open because it's on a regular street. Yesterday I was walking on it and there were 2 couples that were standing way too close to each other, yet still not leaving enough space for someone to have 6 feet between them and someone walking by. I saw a mother and her kid walk in the street to avoid them and a woman and her dog do the same. I walked right up (well, 6 ft up) and said "You are the reason that the beach, parks and everything else is closed! Move over so that there's enough room for someone to walk by safely!" The one man apologized, but the other three just glared at me like I was the devil. Don't even get me started on the idiots that packed the waterfront to see the Blue Angels go by... We will never get back to any sort of normal if these people don't get it together.

Shopping the South Jersey Shore
Bena, there are restrictions here. Most people who enter must self-quarantine for two weeks. Others may pass through and can access limited amenities or their destinations (such as deliveries and other services). The limited amenities that I have seen are clean and covid-appropriate.

Even though this might be appealing to people who wish for a safer environment, newbies should not think of flocking here for a greener grass. Rather, they should keep in mind that there are not enough jobs for current residents who wish to work. Adding some industries and jobs would be destructive to air, water, and the general value of open space which is conducive to limiting the spread of covid and to preventing crowding, two strong risk factors worldwide for the dratted disease.

It is like a catch 22: coming here to escape covid factors would crowd us and so change the environment that all the safety factors would disappear while all risk factors increase. An everyone would be at higher risk for the dratted disease.


@Bena wrote:

Just curious, are there any bans against travelling between states or even within counties within states? any orders requiring quarantine when entering a state? I think if I was in a state bordering a high COVID incidence state I'd feel more comfortable if those types of bans/quarantines were in place.

If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music. - Gustav Mahler
I've been seeing a lot of volunteer grocery deliverers for seniors throughout the country. Locally, they may go by their own group name. Here is one:

[newyork.cbslocal.com]

"Invisible Hands"

I think most (if not all) do not charge anything. These are wonderful volunteers in the purest sense of the word. Maybe you can tip them? From a story I saw, there was a group who did not want to take any sort of pay for it.

We've stopped going out in my household. Church/family members have volunteered to help us with groceries. They deliver them a few feet from the garage. We don't even talk to them. They leave and call to say the groceries are there. We leave them there for a small while (sometimes you can't for cold things) and then go and wipe them down and store them.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2020 10:27PM by shoptastic.
21 states will start to reopen this week

Florida and Georgia were relatively late shelter-in-place states (first week of April). Both had defiant governors.

If I were in these two states, I'd be extra careful!
@shouter: You might be surprised. Some people are scared witless and will do just about anything not to get the dratted disease. I just want them to have every opportunity to consider the pros and cons of being here when they think about using this state as a shield for themselves. If tourism exists in the summer, travelers will endure 90% of the state to get to the pretty spots. This is typical, and then they go away again as they always do.

But this year (and possibly next year) there might be a temptation for some of them to linger. Their presence would not serve anyone well. This is why I am hoping for the opening of in-state businesses for residents and long-term closure of tourism. This will avoid anticipated spikes because few people will enter and linger here. My vision will potentially help in-state business-- provided they and customers get together and do business. Maintaining low risk in the state might help some of the non-tourist businesses greatly even as it does nothing for tourism. So be it. This is likely to maintain our health. I like my idea!

People who know what treats are in store will probably be happy to wait awhile before repeating those pleasures.

If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music. - Gustav Mahler
Shop-et-al: That sounds similar to here; everyone entering from anywhere has to quarantine for 14 days with a few exceptions.

JASFLAMT: Not sure how saying that you think no one wants to travel to a particular state, especially without giving a logical reason, cannot be construed as unoffensive. I've been to all 50 of your states and each one, while different, is attractive in its own way.
@Bena: No offense taken. Much of this state is seen from a long stretch of highway that doesn't have glamorous scenery or amusements. Some people love this! Others would rather have some diversion. I have heard this over and over and over... and I know that hundreds of critters live on in camo while people drive by and wonder how they will survive this barren place. Barren? Really? With all those life forms? grinning smiley

And, I know where beauteous and historical places are.

Some people have a better time here than others do. This is okay.

If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music. - Gustav Mahler


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2020 11:53PM by Shop-et-al.
Her state is not a place that many want to go,in times of virus. It had nothing to do with SEA personally.
Shop-et-al: Unless it's hidden I don't see any posts from someone named Shouter. If you are referring to JASFLAMT, why would you call her 'shouter'? In my opinion all that is going to do is get people upset needlessly.
Decades ago when I first began crossing the Prairies I thought of it as a place to get through as quickly as legally possible. Now, having lived on them for almost 30 years, they are not boring, they are magnificent.
@Flash wrote:

I am deeply concerned that the 'prioritizing of what the public should know' that first told us NOT to wear masks ("Ineffectual, more likely to make you sick if you don't know how to use them, won't protect you but rather others from you" ) and then did a 180 to MUST wear masks ("effective, will insure your safety as well as those around you" ) once enough masks were available for first responders, is not sharing with us the information we actually need to run our own lives.

Do people remember Larry Kudlow on February 25th saying:
[www.cnbc.com]

A week or two before all hell broke loose:

@ wrote:

National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow tried on Tuesday to assuage concerns over the cornavirus and its impact on the U.S. economy.

“We have contained this. I won’t say [it’s] airtight, but it’s pretty close to airtight,” Kudlow told CNBC’s Kelly Evans on “The Exchange.” He added that, while the outbreak is a “human tragedy,” it will likely not be an “economic tragedy.”

“There will be some stumbles. We’re looking at numbers; it’s a little iffy,” Kudlow said. “But at the moment ... there’s no supply disruptions out there yet.”

Yeah, call me a little skeptical about opening back up. We beat the virus already back in February? ...60,000+ deaths later, we're all set again now? It's all contained now?
@Flash wrote:

Of course saying anything negative about it would be like kicking kittens--an immediately ostracizable event. Realistically, is there anything in there that you weren't already acutely aware of? He/she is missing comments about healthcare workers living in tents in their backyards to avoid possibly infecting their children and a number of other situations the TV news has chosen to focus us on to know how good we personally really have it.

The phrase "We are All in This Together" is rather intended, I believe, as a unifying statement coming at a time when our country has been exhibiting its ugliest, most divisive, most racist (more subtly but more dangerous), most xenophobic, most greedy and most class conscious of times in my life experience.
And your points are just as valid as the points expressed by the Nextdoor poster that I copied/pasted above. Everyone is going through their own individual journey on this rocky sea. Many have had hard and terrible times, others not so much.
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