I have taken action. I have reported possible fraud and other possible issues. If tptb do not take this seriously, so be it. I can submit additional information and a gentle reminder. I made today a hell for the hubby, who was doing her bidding. Mind you, I could have stayed home, but this opportunity just presented itself. You remember that ogress/enforcer is not a good role for me; it was a necessary thing today. I might have scared the scrap out of him when I drove off and left him with an unfinished errand for his little girlfriend. That was fun! Some people think the next step is a legal action in which I seek control of his finances. I think the next step is to do what I do best. If I cannot bring about the changes that are needed, I will be forced to deal with the legal system (a sore spot with me, and something to be avoided if at all possible). I would rather try a few different things and stay away from lawyers. This is good for me.

I see. This is a controlled burn. You seem to be on top of it.

Best of luck!

I just skimmed through all of this, but do you have a program against elder abuse in your state? Is he old enough that this could be a possible way to protect him from the scammerwitch? Just a quick thought.

Hello, All! My friend got Power of Attorney over her aunt, because a couple had befriended the elderly lady; the couple had the elderly lady put their names on her investments so the couple could receive the money after the elderly lady passes away. And, of course, they removed the elderly ladies' families names! They coerced the elderly lady into signing papers, AND the elderly lady had some Aldzhimers(sp). my friend had to go to court w/ paperwork and Drs. diagonsis, but she didn't need a lawyer. She said the process was not bad. Signed, Nightowl at4:50 pm

I learned more info today. This is the zaniest situation!

Meanwhile, Hubny is old enough to be of interest in Elder Law. He has several allegedly recent pics of 'Alleged kid' on his new phone/in e-mail. He trusts her... for now... and he believes the explanation that she finally provided reharding her frozen bank account and various effects of that. Everything is plausible. Nothing is proved. Skeptical Me has just managed not to blurt out, "What other kinds of pics might there be about this kid!?" We are getting more information. Will it all be consistent over time? Miss Marple Me wants to know more.

I think you both need help.

I will not try to overtake the hubby. I did not like it when someone tried to overtake me, and I will not do to others what I hated that others dared to try to do to me. This guides my entire life. It is part of the mnemonic of my e-mail addy. Rather, I will try to find out more about the situation.

I have been pushed around by the legal system, and it is the legal system and some of its practitioners who need transformation. If the hubby is being pushed around, he is letting it happen. If he is helping someone in an odd situation, he is counting on me to understand it. This is the icky downside of personal freedom. He has the freedom to let this happen to him or to go about helping someone in this clumsy way. As I tally up monetary costs and compare them with what else I can do with each instance of his participation, I find that I can use this time to do something good and something well even as I find out more about hubby, his activities, and the slickness of a scam consisting of a seemingly endless string of plausibilities (or, in the weird case scenario, about how oddly life can turn out for some people).

I am deeply concerned about what looks like a scam. But it is not time to pull the plug on the hubby's freedom.

"Psalm 121 1
I lift up my eyes to the hills-- where does my help come from? My help comes from the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth. indeed, he who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep."

Now you know. Your remark indicates to me that you might have the same mindset as some who use the 'they need help' ploy as a way to cast an aspersion an/or to avoid making a change in their own habits or beliefs. I know this well because it runs in my family. Thus I have a lifetime of experience with this and now that I am old enough to have a Miss Marple Me, I can do something with it.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread now...

@SoCalMama wrote:

I think you both need help.

Remember: God helps those who help themselves.

Scammerwitch is preying on your husband/household and she won't quit until there is nothing left.

How much has she gotten so far?

Five hundred-- technically. Hubby insists that he was and is free to sell his own stuff for the purpose of supporting a cause he believes in. This is true; he does have that right.

She has promised to pay for gas and food costs associated with her tasks. Today, we received permission to use cash from funds she provided to pay for costs we are incurring and will incur.

My thing is two things: 1) we do not know how old she is. Potentially, this is yikes on steroids. 2) he is like an obedient puppy who jumps to answer here every call and text. Because of this, I always go along in the car and Ogress/Enforcer makes him give me the phone before he starts the car so that he drives and pays attention to that important process.

But he is still in control.

I have 3 thoughts, and I believe I am right. Feel free to correct me. 1 - What she is doing with the gift cards is obviously not legal. She may, if found out by the law, get "Conspiracy" pinned on your husband. She will tattle to reduce her charges, or the law will get into her email. That would be actual charges on your husband! 2 - What would he do with any inheritance? It's a sobering thought. 3 - On the phone, she has you pegged as wishy-washy and a dupe. She is playing you as much as she's playing him. I'm harsh, but the situation is escalating. Signed, Night Owl at 6:29 pm

You have not experienced the hubby. Thank Allah, Lucky Stars, Frosted Lucky Charms or whatever you believe in... The battle lines are drawn as follows:

1) My report mentioned gift cards and included pics that I managed to take of one receipt and three cards. The law knows about this. Meanwhile, hubby and the little girlfriend have moved on from gift cards to bit coin and money orders. This is quite the hassle! Hubby is getting tired of it, fortunately. I believe that due to the amounts of money and the frequency of transactions, hubby has triggered an alarm somewhere (with all locations including his personal financial institution). I believe and hope that he is now on some sort of a watch list. If he is there, so is his telephone number along with her telephone number. For some reason, entering two telephone numbers allows one to buy or deposit (????? into her electronic or bit coin wallet?????) greater sums of money than using just one telephone number. There is nothing too secretive about this. On Saturday, the transactions were possible. Today, the transactions were not. Location staff reported to hubby that they were "having trouble with money orders". It is just possible that her methods of obtaining and manipulating money will evaporate. Will this be due to her and other scammers? Of, is something else happening in the larger money world which happens to be helpful in reducing the financial activities that she/hubby can engage in now?
2) I cannot force the legal system to act or to inform me of anything; tptb probably know far more than I would be able to access with my substantially lesser search tools. All I can do is keep hubby working for as long as possible. His job involves driving daily. Losing the job would be disastrous! He would not find another job that he can do (age, aches, pains, etc.) for years... if ever. He is retired. He has a part-time, daily job.
3) To keep him working, we need him to demonstrate appropriate driving. In order for him to drive and focus on the tasks of driving, it is necessary to separate the phone from his hands and from his reach. This daily chore is not for the faint of heart. Ogress/Enforceress does this but would prefer that the scammeress would be caught or thwarted. If that happened, there would be less communication and less distraction. It would be easier to keep the phone away because there would be no more eager anticipation of and addictive interaction with the scammeress.

Harsh is keeping his phone addiction out of the car and away from his driving.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2020 12:38AM by Shop-et-al.

On Saturday, the transactions were possible. Today, the transactions were not. Location staff reported to hubby that they were "having trouble with money orders". It is just possible that her methods of obtaining and manipulating money will evaporate. Will this be due to her and other scammers? Of, is something else happening in the larger money world which happens to be helpful in reducing the financial activities that she/hubby can engage in now?

This is because the clerks can see that he is being scammed, and they pretend to not be able to do the transaction. I used to do this all the time at Target. I trained the cashiers to do this as well.
What you are doing in the middle of nowhere with a few thousand dollars has nothing to do with anything going on in the rest of the "larger money world."

Bitcoin and money orders sent back to the scammer are probably what they call "money laundering". Your husband is aiding and abeting a fraudulent enterprise. Like I said before, many people who are victims have actually been charged with conspiracy. The scammer will rat out anyone she can to reduce her own charges. Signed, a MAD Night Owl at 3:25 am

Of course he is being scammed. However, he is doing what he is doing for his own reasons. He cannot process anything beyond his absolute certainty and belief (based upon nothing) that his little girlfriend is very beautiful and therefore superior. As beautiful and superior, she is incapable of doing anything wrong. And, he just "knows" that she is thirty two-- except when he says that she is thirty three or thirty five. He just "knows" that he is those ages, as well.

So. We use this belief and "enter into" her little world and allow him to be identified. This is done to establish the connection between him and her. This has been happening for months. That should involve enough time and incidents to determine how many people are involved at her end! Now that he is reaching his sht limit,which might be helped along by my willingness to let him wear himself out and begin to feel irritation, it is easier to wean him from those activities.

The most critical task in our world is to reduce phone contact. It has turned him into a driving menace because he cannot connect texting with her while driving with any existing laws, ordinances, or bad choices and he believes that he must respond to every contact. He refuses to turn off the phone.

We are reducing phone contact via task repetition, lots of thanks, heaps of praise when he voluntarily hands over the phone, and as much roaring and growling as necessary to make keeping the phone near him unpleasant and undesirable. Ogress/Enforceress is in charge of that pita process.

It would be better if sammeress were identified and dealt with, but.....

SEL, I am not at all sure that in most states you can murder a spouse for being stupid.

Ahem. trying not to lol.....

Anyway, this is winding down (I think). There are either one, two, or three days left for the last three money moments of this. How can there be so many options, you may ask? Let me count the ways.....

SEL, how is Scammerwitch? What's happening with her?

I got a call from Apple last week letting me know that my account has been compromised. Apple sends emails. They don't make calls.

I dunno. I think we are finished with the scammeress' tasks for now. There might be another project in the near future-- with money for the hubby! Hmm. I dunno about that, either. Can you say, jail? I think we were able to make a little trail of names and numbers before that ended. The next project might not involve as many details, according to the scant information I have been told about it.

Sorry to hear about your Apple account. I hope that is solved quickly for you.

The Apple thing was an attempt at a scam. Apple does not call, they send emails. Plus, I haven't had an Apple phone since my S3.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2020 10:12PM by HonnyBrown.

Awake now. I get it.

All this talk about freedom and being "free" to do what we please. Just because we CAN, does that mean we SHOULD? Asking for a friend.

Furthermore, because I live and think in colloquial, (yeah, I can summon bigandfancy words when needed) there is one phrase that resounds in my head as I read this thread..." Giiiirrrrllll, you done lost your mind!"

Hello all! To use Eldercare or Power of Attorney, the patient would have to be evaluated by a Neurologist or Geriatric Dr. It is medical and not arbitrary. Also, the patient can give Power of Attorney to a qualified person. Am I right? Signed, Night Owl at 5:14 pm

Earlier today, I posted this update on a different thread. It is well to note that improvement is occurring now. While I thank you for your concern and zealous efforts to commandeer my future and that of my spouse, I am elated to report that change is still possible. I feel certain that you all will adjust your responses accordingly. I will not await or expect a congratulations for the hubby's burgeoning awareness, but I will hope for cessation of suggestions to end our freedoms.

@shop-et-al wrote:

Work. Nap. Be gentle with hubby, who is making so much progress. He now identifies the emotional blackmail (and other tricks & tactics)... and says, "No!"

I'm glad things worked out for the collective you, SEL!

I have power of attorney for both of my parents. I've never really had to use it other than to sign for stuff. I think it was an attempt from my parents to get me to do their errands for them...lol.

On a serious note, I believe you do have to have a doctor sign something that the patient is medically incompetent to make their own decisions in order to get the kind of power of attorney you are thinking of or in the situation you are thinking of. Since I already have it, I COULD make a medical decision for my parents, but the issue hasn't really come up.

@annelehman wrote:

Hello all! To use Eldercare or Power of Attorney, the patient would have to be evaluated by a Neurologist or Geriatric Dr. It is medical and not arbitrary. Also, the patient can give Power of Attorney to a qualified person. Am I right? Signed, Night Owl at 5:14 pm

In our situation, we needed life learning and time. It takes time to learn life lessons. Some lessons require more time than others. Some people never learn the lessons. I am from a family that would swoop down on a foal to keep it from falling rather than letting it find its legs! This has attracted other overbearing souls to various situations. They often mean well but they always destroy something. I well know that it is good to let people find their way at their own pace. I appreciate the education in elder care/care of vulnerable and hope that overpowering will never be needed here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 01:56AM by Shop-et-al.

Did the spouse learn his life lesson? If so, how?

He did. He now knows that he can ask questions, verify the answers, and tell me what is new and different in that part of his world. How did this happen? How does an old mule learn anything?! Anyway, he is doing a wonderful job of generating relevant questions and then finding out whether the answers are supportable. HIPPA, general decency, and the fact that we are not investigators prevent us from knowing exact answers to some questions, but there is an abiding sense that all the information she provides is plausible but unlikely. Along the way, he is finding out that communicating with her is uneven and some statements can be interpreted in more than one way.

You did not ask how I know this, but I will provide an example of why I believe it. He has told her repeatedly that he will not perform certain commands on demand, such as sell more of his belongings to pay for a professional license. (She still has not paid him the money she promised him to redeem his other stuff.) The price of "her" license dropped from an alleged $2,000 to $700 after he informed her that the range of costs across states ranges from less than one hundred dollars to about five hundred dollars (with or without the professional licensing exam). She has not explained why "her" cost was and is so high as compared to that of other aspiring professionals in the same field. She has not provided any information in support of her claim that she worked on another continent in connection with this field of study. We learned that she might have earned a degree from a named school and that she might have performed related work on another continent. Occasionally, the named organization uses master and doctorate candidates as interns. But that is sporadic. Each office determines whether/when they can use an intern. Her degree, she says, is for a bachelor's. This degree is a common route to the career, but it does not produce the level of student/scholarship the organization uses for internships.

I give him some of the information and let him dig for other tidbits. This is infinitely better than his earlier staunch belief in everything she said!

Dear fellow shoppers, I read somewhere that everyone will make one big, bad decision w/ finances. I made my mistake when I was 20, for $900. 40 years later, I am still MAD. That made me THINK before I did any transction. Shop-et-all, has your husband made other mistakes? Signed, Night Owl at 4:45 pm
Also, what country is the scammer from? What accent?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 08:52PM by annelehman.