I am taking a break from shopping and the forum while we house hunt because I already have enough balls in the air, so sorry if this has been discussed, but after looking through the "latest" and searching, I don't see it.

I got an email talking about scheduling for A Closer Look. It sounded appealing (new house, new billz, needz monaaay) until I saw that the average pay was $8-10 an hour. **record screech** I have a full time, non shopping gig and $8-10 an hour is far lower than the minimum wage in my city (currently $13 an hour). So I won't be going for that one. I'll stick to doing restaurant shops for ACL.

However, if you are interested in scheduling and you live in an area where $8-10 an hour makes more sense, just wanted to throw it out there that they seem to be recruiting.

I wouldn't do it for $8 - $10 dollars an hour either. However, people that have to stay home because of kids, etc. like this as they can do the job from home. They do not have to pay a babysitter or gas, etc. so they come out ahead that way.

I think some people like being schedulers because they get access to more mystery shopping gigs that way, but I don't know that for a fact. I feel like I have read that on this forum somewhere though.

I am happy you have your dignity and pride, do you know why we are getting letters warning that Labor Lawyers are investigating companies for the IC status and unfair labor methods? I have had three emails from the MSC to defend their methods even though what they pay is $5 a hour. Why send us letters to support them or is there something brewing we do not know about?

Whut

Totally confused by Akbar's random comment. And I don't even want to hear an explanation.

Interesting post, Cecilia. I have noticed ACL has continuously advertised for schedulers and editors. They sure want a lot for their money, huh?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2016 11:07AM by AustinMom.

Are schedulers and editors employees rather than IC? I would assume that they are. Which would at least mean that they would not have to pay as much taxes on the money earned in comparison to IC.

I suppose another thing to consider is what level of productivity are they expecting for $8-$10 an hour? If they're wanting undivided attention sitting at the computer/ phone all day, it doesn't sound that appealing. However if it was a gig where you work for an hour or 2 straight at the computer, then have some time to do housework etc and can respond to emails and calls as they come in on your phone while still getting other things accomplished (which is the reality for many who work at home, wether they admit it or not), it doesn't sound that bad

@katioard wrote:

Are schedulers and editors employees rather than IC? I would assume that they are. Which would at least mean that they would not have to pay as much taxes on the money earned in comparison to IC.

I suppose another thing to consider is what level of productivity are they expecting for $8-$10 an hour? If they're wanting undivided attention sitting at the computer/ phone all day, it doesn't sound that appealing. However if it was a gig where you work for an hour or 2 straight at the computer, then have some time to do housework etc and can respond to emails and calls as they come in on your phone while still getting other things accomplished (which is the reality for many who work at home, wether they admit it or not), it doesn't sound that bad

This did not say whether they were IC's or employees, but I've seen it discussed before that while some of the bigger companies have employees, a lot of the schedulers are ICs and they get paid per completed gig. I don't know what ACL does because either they didn't say or I didn't finish reading the emails.

They said they wanted you to be available for 4 or 5 hours a day, spread out throughout the day. They said if you have another job you could do some in the morning, some in the evening and some at lunch lol

$8-10 an hour might work out depending on where someone lives and their financial situation. It doesn't work in my city where the cost of living is high. In fact I have cut way back on all mystery shopping because it doesn't make sense for me financially, but I am still doing restaurant shops at nicer places because my husband and I like to eat out.

Oh I agree that it's not a living wage or anything like that. But it sounds like it could be a good option for someone who's otherwise a SAHM or a student just looking for some extra spending $.

Nope. Not for $8-10 an hour. Not worth the stress.

I had a chat with an ACL scheduler once. She said she enjoyed what she was doing and talking with other shoppers. She said she didn't get much from it really in terms of pay, so I would say she was not an employee per se. There seems to be a bit of a turnover, from what I've seen, so maybe folks sign on, do it for a while, and then pass it on. I'm sure it's a ton of work. As mentioned, if you are stay at home for any reason, $40-$50 a day might be worth it for a while, to get you over a crunch, perhaps.

I'm in the lucky position of having a great day job that pays the bills, so mystery shopping is just extra money to help out with lifestyle stuff. So I am trying not to take jobs at such low rates that it drives down the market for people who need the jobs, just out of principle. I know not everyone can do that, so no judgments, but that's what I think. I actually think wages across the service industry are way too low, but that's a topic for another thread.

I think seeing someone as a SAHM and so they can work for less money is an unfortunate byproduct of devaluing the labor of women. Labor is labor, no matter who is doing it or what other arrangements they have made in their lives. There used to be actual pay policies in place where women would get transparently get paid less than men because the men were seen as the breadwinner and the women were seen as earning pocket money. Some positions even expected women with families to quit their jobs. It sounds like a 21st century version of that to me. If a woman has chosen to be a SAHM because she thinks that's the best for her family, and she takes on a part time job, she should still be paid fairly IMO. Another thing that happens to SAHMs is they get kind of ghettoized in low paying jobs and then when the kids go to school and Mom wants to go back to work, they can't get decent pay. Why do it to yourself, I ask?

I do think that $8-10 an hour might make sense in a market where wages are lower, and it is higher than the federal minimum wage. But it doesn't make sense in my city where minimum wage is $13 an hour because cost of living is so high.

To me the schedulers seem to be kind of stressed out, and if schedulers are telling you over email that they love their job and they would do it for basically free, they might just be bullshitting you since the other option would be talking out of turn at work. So I don't think I would do it along with a full time job because it would feel like having a lot of balls in the air and I have enough at my day job.

If you look at the 'job opportunities' area of their website it clearly states that the scheduling position is as an IC:

[www.a-closer-look.com]

Now, when I first got into being a contractor many years ago, a mentor told me that I should expect a pay rate of at least 2 to 2.5 times per hour what I would want to get paid as an employee, since I would no guarantee of hours, no benefits and I would be responsible for self-employement tax. I have found that to a be a pretty accurate formula over the years.

That said, this 'job' also asks the scheduler candidate to supply their own office, own computer system, pay for their own internet (that must be high speed!), be outgoing, have great attention to detail, good phone skills, good writing skills and be adept at social media...and be available part-time 7 days per week!

Why do you think we see so much turnover with this position?...because it basically sucks. Schedulers are being asked to find creative ways to draw shoppers into assignments that don't pay a fee, which is the only contracted position I know of that actually pays worse than the scheduler position.

At least the company is consistent in undervaluing contractors from both sides of the mystery shopping platform, but this seems to basically be their business model; Pay contractors a little as possible....even if it's nothing. In the normal business world, I would expect a position like this to pay closer to $25 per hour, but because this 'employer' has been able to skirt paying shoppers a decent fee and become successful doing it, they are applying the same practice with schedulers. It's shameful if you ask me.

i put this company on my do-not-shop-for list a while ago because I could no longer tolerate how nice they acted while actually treating shoppers pretty disrespectfully. I'd prefer a demanding MSC with no sense of humor that pays a decent fee....

The areas where minimum wage are almost six dollars more than the federal are still few and far between. Since schedulers can work from anywhere, it's likely most people would see $8 to $10 as making anywhere from 50 cents to $2.50 more than minimum wage. Not a living wage for most, but part time jobs are rarely designed to pay a living wage.

If the job is truly only four to five hours and offers ongoing flexibility, there are definitely some additional benefits not offered by the average part time job. There are the more concrete benefits of saving on commuting, lunches and clothing. Then there are benefits like being able to schedule your work time around personal obligations or being able to work from anywhere. I gotta admit, being able to work from the pool would be worth a buck an hour to me, LOL!

I don't mind doing reimbursement-only restaurant shops for ACL because the restaurants they have (at least in my area) are pretty good, and we like to go out to eat, order a lot of food, try a lot of things, and take home leftovers. So I see it as bartering. I know not everyone sees reimbursements that way, but to me reimbursements are added value to mystery shopping. I have a full time job so I don't have to take mystery shopping jobs I don't want the reimbursement for, though.

The last one I did for ACL had about an $85 reimbursement, which to me is worth it for the time I spent, since it's not unusual for my husband and I to go to a restaurant and spend that much anyway, once or twice a month. The meal took and hour and I think the report took about another hour. I started mystery shopping because I want to get into a house rather than apartment, and the only way to do that in this market is to cut wayyyy back on lifestyle spending, so it works for me.

But I agree, if you don't care about eating out at restaurants, and just see a restaurant meal as a necessary evil toward getting the job done, then it wouldn't be worth it.

@LisaSTL wrote:

The areas where minimum wage are almost six dollars more than the federal are still few and far between. Since schedulers can work from anywhere, it's likely most people would see $8 to $10 as making anywhere from 50 cents to $2.50 more than minimum wage. Not a living wage for most, but part time jobs are rarely designed to pay a living wage.

If the job is truly only four to five hours and offers ongoing flexibility, there are definitely some additional benefits not offered by the average part time job. There are the more concrete benefits of saving on commuting, lunches and clothing. Then there are benefits like being able to schedule your work time around personal obligations or being able to work from anywhere. I gotta admit, being able to work from the pool would be worth a buck an hour to me, LOL!

Yep, exactly. That's why it doesn't work for me but might work for others.

There are lots of jobs where you can work online nowadays though. I was doing search engine evaluation for a while and it paid like $13 or $14 an hour. It was another thing that didn't really hold my interest because I have a full time job where I sit in front of the computer but it's my understanding that some people do it quite a few hours a week.

Actually the barter concept is what some of us try to drill into people. It's hearing a scheduler, MSC or shopper refer to it as a free meal that bugs me. IMO, barter is the perfect word.

@CeciliaM wrote:

I do think that $8-10 an hour might make sense in a market where wages are lower, and it is higher than the federal minimum wage. But it doesn't make sense in my city where minimum wage is $13 an hour because cost of living is so high.

Cecelia and I cross posted so I didn't see this response before, but understand that as an employee at $8-10 per hour, you have a computer provided for you, payroll taxes paid for you and various other protections. A contractor making $10 per hour is equivalent to making under $5 per hour as an employee. The lack of commute and ability to work from a lounge chair in the yard doesn't make up for that IMHO.

And I don't think this is necessarily devaluing the labor of women. ACL appears to be an equal-opportunity devaluator. The stay-at-home concept also applies to much of the youth workforce that are still living at home as adults theses days, and taking jobs for sub-standard pay because they prefer online and social-media related employment over a more traditional labor-intensive job that pays better.

As far as the reimbursement-only discussion goes; It's not about if the assignment is worth your time. It probably is. I have done plenty of assignments for ACL that reimbursed well over $100 and most of them even paid me a fee. My issue is with the fact that they are essentially setting a new model for what a restaurant assignment should pay, which is nothing. You have to get yourself to the restaurant and back, which generally does cost money, and pay for your home office, so you do loose money on that transaction. @CeciliaM?, you said above that you were not trying to take jobs that would drive the market down, but that's what you do what you accept a reimbursement-only dining shop.

Where do you get these figures?

"A contractor making $10 per hour is equivalent to making under $5 per hour as an employee."

@LisaSTL wrote:

Where do you get these figures?

See my post above. It's my opinion, and a 200% pay rate for contractors over employees is a generally accepted model in the business world, in my experience.

In truth, it's a very complex equation that will vary from individual to individual but there are numerous costs in running a business as a contractor that employees do not face.

I don't really feel like debating the merits of working for pay vs bartering here, because I know it's a topic that's endlessly debated in mystery shopping, but I will just add that it's not just mystery shoppers who sometimes work for barter instead of cash, and there are lots of benefits to doing so. I live in a big, dense city, so mileage is not really an issue for me. Lots of nice restaurants fairly close by and I can take transit if I want to (which costs only $2.50 or $5 round trip and goes basically everywhere). But even if they were, making $85 in barter for 2 hours of work is not bad. And restaurants have very slim profit margins.

I did think the terms were a little extreme for a part time gig too where you are expected to work several hours a day every day of the week. That's starting to sound like a full time gig to me.

Bottom line we are all going to have our own idea of what is ethical and that's fine. I have relatives who live in a small town an hour's drive from the closest big city and rent a huge house for like $400 a month. Jobs are slim there and they often end up getting jobs where they have to commute an hour or more on the highway. I am sure if they could make $10 an hour working online and not have to commute, it would be a good deal for them.

On the topic of paying for a home office: OK, sure. Mystery shopping (or scheduling or whatever) does require you to have those things but a lot of people have them anyway. I do 100% of my personal stuff, including mystery shopping, on a Chromebook that I got on Groupon for $100 and I use it for all of my personal computing as well. If a person didn't have internet at home they could go to a public space with wifi. I also have a smartphone for my personal use. That's the only thing I use that was sufficiently expensive that I would consider it a barrier. I never print anything. If guidelines are sufficiently complex that I can't just remember them, I download them to my phone or my Chromebook so I can access them even if I don't have internet. So to me it doesn't incur any extra costs. And I think you can probably deduct home office costs on your taxes although don't quote me on that because I am not a tax expert. I have done it before for freelance writing.

I'm aware of the costs associated with running a business. I tend to point those out frequently. It was the exact figure that made me curious. To me the 200% pay rate would not be something that could be applied across the board. The joke about working from the pool aside, my point was there can be intangible benefits to someone restricted to working from home. Paying for child or elder care can quickly have someone being paid $20 an hour actually working for $8 to $10 an hour.

Agreed Lisa. I think the job is probably best suited for people who would benefit financially from being at home all day. I also think the 200% rule as I know it also probably doesn't apply well to people making $5-10 per hour. It's most often utilized for those in professional positions, who incur a much higher tax rate.

I do think the argument of a lot of people having a home office anyway is the same as the justification for taking the reimbursement diner assignment wth, "I was going to eat there anyway," however.

For the job in question, it's a requirement that you have high-speed access at home....and here are a few other things to think about with being a contractor instead of an employee:

-What happens when your internet is down? You don't get paid.
-What happens when your computer is dies? You can't work until you replace it.
-What happens is you're sick and can't work, or have an auto-accident, or get laid off? No benefits for you

Now you have to start adding the additional costs of taxes when you have a complex schedule C, and the hassle to pay quarterly taxes on your income, the lack of contributions to SSI, the extra power bills, possible local taxes you might have to pay (I pay 1% to L.A.County), use of your phone, printing materials, etc.

Yes, most people would have many of those expenses anyway, but the employer in this case gets out of footing that bill. If you commuted into an office every day, the power consumption at your home would likely be less, the office supply costs at home would be negligible and you would have tech support for all of your electronics at work, with a paycheck that came wether or not your desk computer was functioning.

Then you have to start looking at the personal toll of of a home-based job. Yes, there's the benefit of not having to get in your car and drive to work every day, but your work will consume your life unless you have amazing boundaries....and after spending the entire day in your house working, the concept of spending an evening at home will not be very exciting. Add to that the fact that the idea of taking a mystery shop to cover that dinner out will be even more unappealing and you will probably have much greater expenses for dining out that you have with a traditional job. I'm not making that one up, I learned it from being a stay-at-home scheduler!

My point being; I have been a full-time scheduler. It was almost a decade ago. I was paid around $25 per hour back then, plus a stipend for my health-insurance and home office, and I still couldn't make it work. Hats off to those who do. They are better at it than me. The thought of doing that job for $10 would terrify me.

First, I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Most part time employees do not get benefits such as paid time off making them just as vulnerable as any of us who are full time ICs. For that matter, many full time employees don't get much and often have to wait a year to get five days. I can't argue with the additional taxes, but unless the person has an empty house during the day, the difference in a power bill will be minimal at best as is the office supplies since most of us have the ability to be virtually paperless.

What you didn't add back in is the time and expense of commuting which is not deductible, meals and clothing. For homeowners like me, add in the time taken to be at home to wait for the crew to repair the chimney or the guy to replace the water meter in the basement or the pest control company. All of which are actually things I have to deal with just in the next two weeks. As a part time caregiver there will also be several doctors appointments scheduled just for April.

As someone who works primarily at home, I actually have no trouble separating the two. It is not that hard to turn off a computer. I can even turn off email notices to my business email. It also doesn't diminish my enjoyment of "an evening at home." I can close my computer, put it on the desk and walk right back outside to my patio with a good book and a steak for the grill without thinking twice about work. My extra time saves me a lot of money on any number of things I would have to hire out if working full time. From housecleaning to gardening.

I am not advocating working for $8 to $10 an hour. In all honesty, I'm making a bit above that these days. However, I don't believe you can judge a part time job requiring some very basic skills to a full time job possibly requiring a degree and/or years of experience. You can't even compare part time scheduling to your full time scheduling job.

I wonder about the legality of putting an hourly pay amount on an IC position. If a person working where the minimum wage is higher takes such a 'job' is it legal? I know that the laws are different for IC, but it seems weird that one can change the classification (which may or may not be legal in the case of a scheduler) and then be allowed to pay below the minimum wage.

I think that is the better argument about the job. Is it truly an IC and does it pay hourly or is it by the assignment? If it is by the assignment we all know the hourly could be higher, but would be more likely run lower.

@TeriW wrote:

I wonder about the legality of putting an hourly pay amount on an IC position.

It's not about the pay rate, it's about the control than the employer exerts over you that defines your job as employment vs. contractor. Many contractors bill by the hour.

@LisaSTL wrote:

First, I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Most part time employees do not get benefits such as paid time off.

For benefits; I was referring more to unemployment, disability and workers comp., which I think all part time employees are entitled to....at least in CA they are.

Each person has to find the employment situation that works best for them and agreed that having responsibilities that require you to be at home on occasion make a home workplace more attractive to some, but I also think you are probably underestimating the scheduler position requirements if you think it's a basic job. The job description on the website reads like something I would typically see offered a might higher pay rate:

This is a part-time position, and 7 day per week availability is needed. Candidates must have on-line capability and at least a DSL or Broadband connection to the Internet. The applicant for this position must be an outgoing, people person who possesses great attention to detail, the ability to read and follow precise directions, excellent phone skills, the ability to proactively contact shoppers or potential shoppers by phone daily, creative writing skills and a good working knowledge of the internet, social media and computer software. Prefer candidates with mystery shopping experience.

I think it's also an apples-to-oranges comparison to think of any basic wage earning job (Which would require a very limited skill-set) with this position, which requires organization, being a self-starter, technical ability, software knowledge and industry experience. I think that the Starbucks & In-N-Out on the corner by my house offer employment at over $12 per hour (and soon to be over $15 per hour) with no experience required, benefits and flexible hours. The above job description reads more like the qualifications for a content editor at Buzzfeed, which is a much higher paying job position that would offset any clothing costs and probably net you a few free meals as well.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

@TeriW wrote:

I wonder about the legality of putting an hourly pay amount on an IC position.

It's not about the pay rate, it's about the control than the employer exerts over you that defines your job as employment vs. contractor. Many contractors bill by the hour.

I understand that.I wasn't clear. I meant that since the scheduler likely has no other clients if they are working so much, I have doubts about the IC status.

My main question, which you may know the answer to, is whether it is legal to pay somebody an hourly wage which is less than the person's minimum wage. Say, the minimum wage where I live (and where I will be working) is fifteen an hour. Can an IC job pay 8 to 10 legally? It's one thing if it is piecework, but to actually pay per hour at a lower rate seems like it might be wrong. (this aside from the fact that that pay rate is ridiculously low)

There are people who are housebound or have a disability that makes it easier to stay home. This would be a perfect job for them. Not for me, but my parents always taught me that any honest job is a good job. It's a heckuva lot better than living off the taxpayers. I like ACL. I never, ever have had to chase payment, the scheduler I work with the most often is wonderful, and I will take a few photos in exchange for two days' worth of food. People make choices, and we have to live with the consequences of those choice. For me, ACL makes sense (the scheduling position doesn't.)

@Teri, the nice thing is that an IC doesn't have to accept the job if the terms are not acceptable to him. I suspect that in ACL's case, since they're quoting a range, it's by the job. A by-the-hour rate could land them in trouble. I looked up your question and did not find a direct legal quote to answer it, However, most sites (nolo, fairpay, irs, etc) seem to indicate that if a person is indeed an independent contractor, they have the right to negotiate their own fee that is acceptable to both parties. For some, an average of $8/hr is going to be worth it. For others (like my plumber), it's going to be closer to $250/hr.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2016 07:43PM by PasswordNotFound.