I do apologize if my language offends anyone. I do happen to be both an adult and--sorry for tooting my own horn--pretty well-read, but there's nothing anywhere in Shakespeare, Plato, or Steig Larsson to replace that particular word (and Shakespeare is REALLY creative with his insults, let me tell you, man).


If we're banning all words that may offend someone, I will hereby request that nobody on this forum ever call me nice. If you know your linguistic history, you already know why. If you don't know your linguistic history, it's because the original meaning of "nice" was "lazy, foolish, and pretentious."


Moving on: for Sandra Sue's edification, the reason I mentioned my appearance is because I often get brushed off as "just a girl." I apparently look too young and cheerful to be a professional anything, much less part of management. Men and women a lot less nasty than the fellow in the original story have assumed I was a newbie or still in high school and I STILL occasionally get asked for my mother on the phone only to have to say "no, no, I actually am [name], check my birthdate again."

We don't always get what we want. Sometimes it's better to just cut people some slack, if it's obvious there's no ill intention.

I'm glad you're back, Nina. I was wondering where you'd gone.
Shakespeare was indeed a master of insults ~ a creative genius! But you weren't insulting anyone. You were simply describing a situation, and painted a vivid picture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2014 09:48AM by StormCloud.

I too, look very young. When I was 26 I was on maternity leave with my first child. A teenager came to the door during the day selling some crap. When I answered the door, he asked if my Dad was home. I said, "I don't know, I can call his house and ask him?" He looked mortified and started stuttering about what he was selling. It was pretty funny.

I just turned 39 in March. I just got back a couple of days ago from a trip to Vegas, and this was the very first trip of my life when I did not one time get carded at a casino. Made me a little sad.

As far the profanity goes, I say to each his own as long they are in an appropriate venue. That is in my opinion where no children are. I have two boys getting ready to go into 4th & 8th grade. I am not naïve and very well aware of what they hear, and probably even say, when they are not around me. But they will by no means hear it in my house or under my watch. I'm no prude, and do say some of those words outside the presence of my kids. While it doesn't enhance a story for me, I am not offended by it, and when you are on a public internet forum of any kind, you will not be able to avoid it.

You know I find arguments interesting and/or entertaining normally. I stopped finding this one either shortly after it started.

StormCloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cpburt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > First of all I would not use the "F" word in a
> > post.
>
>
> I would presume that an audience of grown-ups can
> handle an occasional 'f' word, used in context and
> all, and definitely not to excess (the way some
> people speak). You see and hear it pretty much
> anywhere you go. Look at some of the t-shirts in
> Wal-Mart.
>
> And, not a very productive response to a
> well-presented scenario. And more than likely the
> guy does have PTSD, if he's actually served in
> combat. But some of that, well, it sounds like
> even if he does have PTSD he was a chauvinist pig
> before that happened.
>
> For one, if I was the MS, I would not continue to
> wait in line in the immediate vicinity. Heh. I
> would find some part of the store I had
> 'forgotten' to peruse, and observe carefully from
> over there. I would rejoin the line later, and
> count *that* as my in line timing.
>
> Second, I would report everything just as it
> happened in my report. If there wasn't a specific
> place for that, or only those text fields with
> really small character allotments; I would include
> it in an email to the editor/scheduler or someone
> involved with the account at the MSC.
>
> Some people... sheesh! Sounds like you guys
> handled it the best you could.

Great response. Personally, if I saw a drunk marine or anyone acting out like that in a store, I would GET THE @#$%& OUT (LOL) of there and wait until the irate/drunk customer had left the store. Then I would start timing the shop over from the second time I came into the store.

I live in NYC and frequently encounter irate drunks and/or angry, screaming mentally ill people who forgot to take their medication who scare the @#$%& out of me. They are everywhere, and people need to walk in NYC. Sometimes they're walking behind me saying intimidating things and I'm not sure if they're only talking to themselves or trying to scare me. If I have to cross the street or change directions, I do not hesitate. I am not staying around to see if someone explodes. @#$%& that!

cpburt, I hope you realize what a can of worms you opened and can take a few jokes!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2014 04:59PM by nycrocks.

I don't think the horse is dead yet, guys ....... keep beating him! Who's next?

Let's stop talking about f words, I'm bored with that. Let's switch topics and talk about why posters continue to beat dead horses.

Is it because we want to be the last to pile on and hit the dead horse? Is it because we're not sure he's dead? Or maybe we think he's only sleeping and we're trying to revive him?

Or could it be that some people just, plain and simple, don't like horses?

(heart)

Please don't stilllearning. Now we're gonna have 4 pages about how evil horses are and don't belong on a forum vs how great they are and we should all wallow in horse @#$%&. It'll be even worse than the @#$%& discussion.

Too late, my friend. Enjoy!

(heart)

Warning, anyone who doen't like to hear trashy language shouldn't read this post.

I'm just wishing I had the nerve to test the tolerance limits of the people who think that '@#$%&' and '@#$%&' are really clever words to use, and specially clever to use when they know that they're offending someone. Unfortunately, I don't. I'm betting I could fill them with righteous outrage, fast. And, 'that would be different.' It's always different when I'm the one being offended, whoever 'I' is. No, I wouldn't try to push boundaries in the sexual and scatological direction. I'd take a different direction entirely.

P.S. You never can count on that horse being dead!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2014 05:25PM by Ishmael.

If anyone thinks the "horse is dead" why keep opening the thread? I just saw it for the first time. Since when are we not supposed to give our opinions on something because we weren't the first ones to do so?

You're beating your own dead horse to keep saying that's what anyone else is doing. Please, move on if you're bored.

Trying to make other people feel embarrassed or out of place by giving their opinions is rude, no matter how stale you think their opinions are.

If you're watching TV and the program is a rerun and you don't want to watch it again, what do you do? You change the flipping channel. You don't start telling everyone who is catching the show for the first time there's something wrong because they are interested and you're not.

I buried a dead chicken the other day. But I didn't beat it first. The horses are still standing.

The "f" word used to have a primarily sexual reference. Now it is used as all parts of speech and rarely has anything to do with sex. I find it a little offensive primarily because it conveys a lack of respect for women (and in some cases men) to refer to sex using that term. But the other uses are just "colorful."

"Don't F with me," "get the F out of here," "Too effing bad," "effing ridiculous," "I really f'd up that shop," "F off," and other things of that nature do not convey anything related to sex and in some cases it would be hard to even give a concise definition to the F word used in those contexts.

It's little more these days than a way of putting emphasis on something.

Language changes. The F word that would have caused my parents to knock me across the room 40 years ago if I had used it in any context might still offend many, but it actually shocks very few any more.

Many people are still offended by the idea of gay marriage, but it's becoming commonplace and no longer shocking. Just because something offends some people -- even many people -- even the majority of people -- is no reason to demand it be banned.

This is a free country and free speech is part of that. If Jacob wants to censor the words used here, that is his right and his choice, and if this forum works like others I've been on, it's a simple list that can be maintained to either bleep certain words or replace them with more "acceptable" words.

(One I was on had a default list (that could be revised by the moderators) that initially replaced the word that means "small cat" with "girl thingie" and the word that means "rooster" with "boy thingie." Is that what we want here?)

Ishmael Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warning, anyone who doen't like to hear trashy
> language shouldn't read this post.
>
> I'm just wishing I had the nerve to test the
> tolerance limits of the people who think that
> '@#$%&' and '@#$%&' are really clever words to use,
> and specially clever to use when they know that
> they're offending someone. Unfortunately, I don't.
> I'm betting I could fill them with righteous
> outrage, fast. And, 'that would be different.'
> It's always different when I'm the one being
> offended, whoever 'I' is. No, I wouldn't try to
> push boundaries in the sexual and scatological
> direction. I'd take a different direction
> entirely.
>
> P.S. You never can count on that horse being dead!

You can always count on a few people touting their "superiority" and a few "holier than thou" and "dictatorial" types of posts here too.

You "can fill them with righteous outrage?" Is that supposed to be intimidating?

I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I simply said what I thought the situation(s) I discussed warranted. When anyone is afraid for their safety, these words are most appropriate. As they also are when you stub your toe or bang into something. Yes, I emphasized them to show that I could joke about using the "F" and "S" words but that was secondary. If the shoe fits ...

Anyone who is truly offended by four letter words when they're not being directed at them personally is taking offense too easily, and is going to be offended a lot. I see a lot of jokes that are plays on words here that sometmes involve cursing. Nobody says anyone has to play along. We still have freedom of speech in this country and the moderator here has not blocked the words. So use or don't use them if you wish, but please don't try to demean people for exercising that right.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2014 06:38PM by nycrocks.

For the record, I really, really like horses and have had several. On the other hand, when it's dead, what difference does it make?

The definition and history of the word itself is quite interesting, going back to at least the 1400s. Some of the current definitions have little or nothing to do with the origins.

I am on the list of people who did not even notice it the first time. The opinion was expressed some do not like to hear or read the word. That is fine and dandy. The OP did not appear to intentionally use the word for shock value, rather it was a slip and a slip that did not deserve three pages of castigation and defense. IMHO, most members here are clever and well-written so they do not use the word because their vocabulary is lacking or we would see it much more often. By my count, prior to this thread we have seen it used in it's entirety only a handful of times even if some of us commonly use hyphens to block certain letters or acronyms such as WTF.

Some of the responses in defense of the OP have intentionally used the word for shock value and as an irritant. I get it, didn't really find it all that necessary, but if that's what the person writing the post felt was necessary so be it.

I don't know how to solve the issue of who is offended and who is not and who wins the game. Like dspeakes, the thought of such a heavily moderated forum is appalling. For opinions on that simply refer to the recent Volition thread. (Oops, now I just used a "dirty" word.) Where do we stop? Are we no longer allowed to use WTF or make any reference to it? It has also been proposed forum members no longer use blonde to refer to anything other than hair color and to stop using "duh." Where does it stop?

An aside on how interpretation changes and becomes acceptable. The concept of free speech was designed to protect political speech. Over the years most people's interpretation expanded to protect any speech beyond political discourse, has often been challenged and has not always been accepted as pertaining to everything we care to say. Threats to the public safety such as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater are still not protected.

Lisa, that is true. It reminded me that self-defense experts tell women being attacked to yell "fire" instead of "Help!" or "Rape!" because people pay attention when you yell "Fire!" It's very sad that people don't respond to someone's cries for help. If I saw something, I would at least call 911 from a safe distance. A friend of mine told me her ex-boyfriend punched her in a public square and she was screaming and crying and several people stood right there watching and nobody went to a pay phone to call 911 or tried to stop the guy. This was in the early 90s before cell phones were popular.

Nowadays the people who wouldn't bother calling 911 on a payphone in the past would stand there with their cell phone videoing the attack -- no, not to show it to police but to put it on youtube and hope it went viral. And they still wouldn't help her. Sad.

StormCloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ironically, the people who are so bothered by that
> (gasp! ) word are the ones drawing all of the
> attention to it and making it a *WAY* bigger deal
> than it ever needed or was intended to be. (Since
> I'm sure there was no intention there at all.)
> Several people hadn't even noticed it until the
> others pointed it out. If no one had felt it
> necessary to let us all know they were bothered,
> it wouldn't even be an issue.
>
> Besides... even if someone *does* think it's a
> social faux pas for someone to slip a single,
> contextually correct usage of the 'f' word into
> conversation, it's poor etiquette to point it out.
> Not that using the 'f' word is the epitome of
> etiquette, or anything... Ha! But if we'd all
> been sitting around in person and Nina told this
> story, would you have stopped her to scold her
> about her word choice? Because that would be
> rude. Just like if you would've pointed out that
> someone you were talking to ripped a fart.

Who farted? Haha

I love your posts! It may well be poor etiquette to take issue with the use of what the offended person considers inappropriate language. I just see it as an attempt to control others, which is almost always an exercise in futility. But that doesn't stop them from trying. Most people, offended or not, just let these things pass where adults are concerned. I could see making an issue if someone was literally throwing out F bombs every other word. As Roseanne Roseannadanna said, "If it's not one thing, it's another." People who want to criticize will always find an excuse. In reality it says a lot more about them than anyone else.

dspeakes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nowadays the people who wouldn't bother calling
> 911 on a payphone in the past would stand there
> with their cell phone videoing the attack -- no,
> not to show it to police but to put it on youtube
> and hope it went viral. And they still wouldn't
> help her. Sad.

I don't believe everyone would just video the scene, but far too many would. We have a huge chunk of society of voyeurs and reality show watchers. Ugh .... What else is going on is the gang attacks on innocent people being videotaped. On the news last night, I just saw a bunch of teens attack an older woman brutally for no reason and it struck me, do these kids know they're being taped? Whether they know or not, I hope they get caught and prosecuted and sent where they can learn what it's like to get brutalized for someone else's pleasure. That may be the only way they will learn.

It's all terribly sad.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2014 08:42PM by nycrocks.

People giving their differing opinions about one topic is not beating a dead horse, it's having a conversation. Beating a dead horse is when somebody says, "which MSC shops McDonalds?" and 27 different people feel the need to tell them that is a violation.

Whew! Thank you, I feel so much better!

(heart)

nycrocks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.....
> On the news last night, I just saw a bunch of
> teens attack an older woman brutally for no reason
> and it struck me, do these kids know they're being
> taped? Whether they k is or not, I hope they get
> caught and prosecuted and sent where they can
> learn what it's like to get brutalized for someone
> else's pleasure. That may be the only way they
> will learn.
>
> It's all terribly sad.

In some cases, I don't know if the one you saw was one of those, one of their buddies is doing the taping, and they're downright proud of it. It's sickening.

If the taping was done on purpose, I wonder how proud they'll be of their stupidity in a juvenile detention facility or adult prison with seriously violent offenders. With all the cell phones and cameras around today, people who want to commit crimes should be aware that they are under constant surveillance. Just like everybody else. They wired all of London with video cameras to try to prevent crime. I don't know how much crime it's prevented but it has to be somewhat of a deterrent.. At least it helps to identify the criminals.

I looked it up, and the bystanders recorded the attack. It doesn't appear to have been anyone who was friends with the teenager girls who beat up the woman. [pix11.com]

I think it's great to give the girls some counseling, after they pay for their crime. At the very least they should have to be seriously humbled some way. No doubt these girls have problems at home but what about the victim? The way the police worded it, it looks like counseling the total "punishment."

Sorry about the digression.

My boys (18 and 20) aren't permitted to use profanity. But they come up with interesting alternatives. For a while whe they wanted to express extreme disappointment they would say "Awww Bing!"Because they seriously despise Bing.

Whew, and all I did was use a word I honestly didn't even realize I used until somebody got mad over it.

Can we just move on now? I'm embarrassed, I'll double-read my posts in future, I'm sorry, I get the picture. I shouldn't have used it, intentionally or not.

And my point about etiquette has been made. Congrats, guys!

ninamason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whew, and all I did was use a word I honestly
> didn't even realize I used until somebody got mad
> over it.
>
> Can we just move on now? I'm embarrassed, I'll
> double-read my posts in future, I'm sorry, I get
> the picture. I shouldn't have used it,
> intentionally or not.

You shouldn't be embarrassed and you have absolutely nothing to apologize for! This forum is not censored, and you are free to say whatever you wish. It's not for anyone to tell anyone how or what to post, unless it's the moderator, or there's a potential IC violation. Please don't let a few complaints influence you. You were reporting an extreme situation, and extreme words were totally appropriate.

ninamason, please don't start double-reading your posts, based on what a handful of people are saying. I like your posts just the way they are, especially because you don't put up a "front" and your posts seem so refreshingly natural.

In fact, your posts remind me a lot of StormCloud's posts, of which (and of whom) I am a huge fan. She is who she is and she tells it like it is. I swear StormCloud does not have a pretentious bone in her body and has one of the softest hearts on the forum. It doesn't get much better than that!

(heart)

I caught a rerun of Friends and found this scene appropriate. If you don't want to watch the whole thing, the best part is about a minute and 35 seconds in.

[www.youtube.com]

Puppy perfect! Now, who, I ask, doesn't like puppies?

(heart)