Gender pronouns

October 11, 2023 07:56PM

I recently did two Sassie shops where the reviewer reduced my rating because I didn’t use ‘they/them’ pronouns in my report. Has anyone else encountered this? I suppose this will soon become the norm.

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October 11, 2023 08:33PM

Nope. Not gonna dip into the mental illness pool. Just for technical clarification; remember that those who medically seek "reassignment" can only select one of two genders.

October 11, 2023 08:42PM

I have completed some shops that specifically state that "they/them" be used. If that is the requirement, that is the requirement. There are many shops that still require that I select either male or female and in some instances, I really have no idea since even the name (if known) is of no assistance.

@zanyzora wrote:

I recently did two Sassie shops where the reviewer reduced my rating because I didn’t use ‘they/them’ pronouns in my report. Has anyone else encountered this? I suppose this will soon become the norm.

Shopping Southeast Pennsylvania, Delaware above the canal, and South Jersey since 2008

October 11, 2023 08:47PM

Some clients are insisting on gender neutral pronouns.

Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel

Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.

October 11, 2023 08:55PM

Lately, I have not had to deal with pronouns and personal descriptions in my reports. I complete selected shops and merchandising assignments where I only occasionally need an employee name. I like this. !

My garden in England is full of eating-out places, for heat waves, warm September evenings, or lunch on a chilly Christmas morning. (Mary Quant)

October 11, 2023 09:09PM

I did some shops many years ago (long before pronouns became a hot topic). The guidelines specifically prohibited shoppers from identifying the employee(s). That meant no names, male or female pronouns, etc.

Sometimes, the client wants to know what was said or done during a shop but not who said or did it.

As long as the shop guidelines are clear about using only they/them, it behooves the shopper to use only they/them.

October 11, 2023 09:16PM

Nope. There are non-binary options.

@maverick1 wrote:

Nope. Not gonna dip into the mental illness pool. Just for technical clarification; remember that those who medically seek "reassignment" can only select one of two genders.

October 11, 2023 09:38PM

Postal shops have always been that way.

October 11, 2023 09:39PM

I prefer to use "the employee" or "the associate" or any other word that does not identify a particular gender. I do admit I still use the he/she a lot, but am trying to just get away from that not because of the politics, but because I want to start writing less.

Makes it easier to cut/paste commentary with revisions to timing details and other specifics that need to be updated.

October 11, 2023 10:31PM

@BusyBeeBuzzBuzzBuzz wrote:

I did some shops many years ago (long before pronouns became a hot topic). The guidelines specifically prohibited shoppers from identifying the employee(s). That meant no names, male or female pronouns, etc.

Yes, I remember well. Not sure if it was Bare or Maritz or both, but it was the famous shops we do for IPSOS now and they wanted no reference that could identify the employee. I've only recently been able to make myself use he/she/her/his etc. Old habits die hard. That was way before the current trendy thing going on now, which I find ridiculous, but that's just me. Back then, it was strictly for business. It had to be "the clerk, they, the employee etc.

*****************************************************************************
The more I learn about people...the more I like my dog..

Mark Twain

October 11, 2023 11:50PM

I do label people by gender in casual conversation. I shouldn't and I know I shouldn't. But when it comes to typing narratives, and identifying customer service representatives, I do my very best not to identify them by their gender or by their skin color or their ethnicity.

We are all human beings, every single one of us deserves to be respected. And if that means not identifying them by gender, or using specific pronouns to make them feel seen and heard or respected, then it's the right thing to do.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2023 11:51PM by Morledzep.

October 12, 2023 12:21AM

I've avoided this specifically due to its controversial nature. I was asked to make a choice to update my Sassie profile for one company. As a linguist, it hurts my ears and sensibilities. If a company wants they/them as their writing convention, then so be it. If I have strong feelings against it, then I won't do any of their shops.

Do not read so much, look about you and think of what you see there.
Richard Feynman-- letter to Ashok Arora, 4 January 1967, published in Perfectly Reasonable Deviations from the Beaten Track (2005) p. 230

October 12, 2023 12:02PM

Whenever we are asked to provide a description of the person/persons we interacted with, gender is usually asked. I provide the gender to the best that I can ascertain it....and use the pronouns that fit the gender...so....?

October 12, 2023 12:14PM

That was unnecessarily ugly.

@maverick1 wrote:

Nope. Not gonna dip into the mental illness pool. Just for technical clarification; remember that those who medically seek "reassignment" can only select one of two genders.

October 12, 2023 01:27PM

If a company has a preference on such, I do what the client wants. When in doubt, I use they anyway. One of the companies recently asked me to update my gender preferences before I took another assignment, so I did. I am she/her. I am a tall female and have been fairly athletic for most of my adult life. I have been misgendered on occasion, but this is not something I am going to sue anybody about. I don't care.

Given that I have on occasion been mis-gendered, the current level of controversary on the issue baffles me. As the saying goes, it is what it is though, and these are the times we live in. I think mystery shoppers are frequently on the front end of things when things start changing, and we are definitely seeing a change in attitudes on this issue.

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?
"Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."
-- Abraham Lincoln

October 12, 2023 02:18PM

With regards to gender pronouns, using the pronouns that a person prefers costs nothing to me. As I tell my kids, "Kindness is free."

October 12, 2023 03:20PM

I use he/she when I am evaluating an individual, but tend to use they when evaluating service in general, such as when the client is not asking for names or descriptions. The use of they vs. he/she has long been a source of contention among writers, even before it had anything to do with gender identification and such. Why is it necessary to identify gender if it is not relevant to what is being said, the argument goes.

October 12, 2023 06:11PM

If a client said to not follow English language conventions and use plural pronouns for a single person, I would do it. Did the guidelines say to do that? I have never been penalized for pronouns that I am aware of. I remember having to do shops several years ago (I believe it was Yard House) where the language had to be gender-neutral. Writing it was pretty annoying. The idea of not being able to identify someone by gender or race is silly and is highly counterproductive to mystery shopping. Those are the two most reliable identifications in my opinion. Perhaps soon we will not be able to identify persons at all. Identifying age will be ageist; identifying height will be heightist. Maybe we will just have to submit a photo of every person.

October 12, 2023 07:15PM

And the interesting thing about postal shops is that since I have been dong them for a long time I remember when we were told we need to use " the clerk" instead of he or she.
But no matter how many times I have re read the guidelines in the past few years I have not seen this requirement there. Is my brain just turned off to finding that or do you need to be a long time postal shopper to know not to use gender.

@sestrahelena wrote:

Postal shops have always been that way.

October 12, 2023 09:04PM

I did a shop where the only things to identify the employee were height and hair. And I, being short, am notoriously bad at height.

October 12, 2023 09:11PM

Sandy, Good question! I never specifically look for that anymore in the guidelines. I just go on auto-pilot!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2023 09:12PM by sestrahelena.

October 12, 2023 09:33PM

When I first started shopping, I was taught to use they/them. Then, as years went by, I was allowed to use him/she sometimes. Now, I use a mixture of both. I've learned what companies want him/she and the ones that want they/them. It can get confusing.

Shopping Arkansas, Louisiana, & Mississippi.

October 12, 2023 10:44PM

"It's Pat"

October 12, 2023 11:29PM

I remember reading that in the shipping guidelines too. I don't think I've downloaded the guidelines again and recent memory so I don't know if it's still there or not. Makes no difference I'm still going to use "the clerk" or they/them. The current mystery shopping company has a thing for pulling out obscure rules from previous guidelines or changing the rules after the fact to use as a convenient excuse not to pay you. So I'll just keep on doing it the way I've been doing it.

October 13, 2023 06:53AM

I used to joke all the time about the news that they would make an announcement...We have had a rash of armed burglaries and we need the help of the public in finding the perpetrator. Please be on the lookout and call 911 with any tips. We are looking for a person. We cannot tell you the height or the weight. We cannot divulge the sex of the person we are looking for. We also cannot tell you the racial characteristics but when last seen this person was wearing a black t shirt and black pants. Should you see anyone meeting this description call us immediately.

October 13, 2023 01:04PM

I was at an event last night (non-shopping) where during the icebreaker everyone had to say a couple of facts about themselves, including their preferred pronouns. Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but I thought the pronoun part was unnecessary.

Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. Eleanor Roosevelt

October 14, 2023 03:41AM

Happened to me a few days ago on a cell phone shop. It was a new requirement that I had missed.

October 14, 2023 08:08AM

I have encountered this, and I refused to do it. I explained to the editor that I learned from many years of English classes that using "they" when referring to a singular subject was incorrect and that I refuse to start using bad grammar now. This is especially true since the editors are always so quick to ding us for grammar mistakes. Hasn't been an issue since.

October 14, 2023 10:25AM

@sandyf wrote:

I used to joke all the time about the news that they would make an announcement...We have had a rash of armed burglaries and we need the help of the public in finding the perpetrator. Please be on the lookout and call 911 with any tips. We are looking for a person. We cannot tell you the height or the weight. We cannot divulge the sex of the person we are looking for. We also cannot tell you the racial characteristics but when last seen this person was wearing a black t shirt and black pants. Should you see anyone meeting this description call us immediately.

Yep, I've heard this discussed b4. The reality is society needs to enforce laws. That means, among other things, "defund the police" is bad policy just like a host of other illogical ideals. Back on topic. Nope. There's only two human genders. The medical community cannot give you anything anything else. Other "derivatives" are purely in a persons head.

I was taught to be polite also. So when I run into someone I meet that prefers a pronoun other than the biology of male / female, I'll respond; "Hey, have a nice day!" and move on with my day. I will not perform a shop that requires me to write non-sensible terms.

So far, no one I know in my life has had this mental health issue. (I have known people with substance abuse, habitual lying, cheating, stealing, fiscal irresponsibility, and I stay away from these people too.) So far, my life has been happy, healthy, and rewarding.

Footnote: Oh, and BTW, STEM College Degrees are Still Male-Dominated (https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/stem-college-degrees-still-male-dominated)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2023 10:52AM by maverick1.

October 14, 2023 11:38AM

There are a lot of hills I could die on. While I think some of this has reached beyond....I have still decided this is not the hill I want to die on....so I move on with life, feathers unruffled.

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