I have witnessed and been the victim of personal attacks and criticism during the posting of questions and responses at Volition.com. Their stated rules warn against these, but they are rarely enforced. As a result, shoppers insult and criticize one-another with reckless abandon. This has created a shopper hierarchy that has eroded the original mission of support and respect for all. Has anyone else experienced this? As this particular site grows, will there be safeguards to insure that this does happen here?

We are all aware of those at Volition. It is not a new occurrence. Similarly that forum has developed a moderator 'attitude' towards newbies, which is why there needs to be a forum such as this one that actually is people attempting to help each other. This is not a moderated board. There have been some ugly brawls. When things get out of hand, we ask Jacob, who owns the board to shut down and/or remove threads. Any open public forum is subject flamers and folks who should think before they type, but all in all, things remain reasonably civil here. We have had a cadre of the 'shopper hierarchy' appear here and it has not been pleasant. They have their own 'playground' and since their intent does not appear to be offering assistance openly and publicly except to emphasize how important conventions, and certifications and books are (to them), their contributions have been of very questionable merit. A basic philosophy of this forum is that most people can become successful shoppers without paying a nickel to shop, regardless of the form of pocket picking it takes.

I gather you have been shopping for a while, and we welcome you and hope you find this forum pleasant.

You will note that this forum has its 'frequent flyers' as well and yes, we are here because we enjoy each others' company and are willing to share and help.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2009 01:11AM by Flash.

I haven't become entangled with Volition. I've shopped almost three years and have hung out on other forums during this time. To each his/her own. I'm most comfortable with the atmosphere here. Yes, there have been flamers and there have been differing opinions. (This can be a good thing!) But, I've always been allowed a voice, even if it were to agree to disagree.

I asked to have my status deactivated at Volition in July 08 due to a particular controversy involving a known poster and a known MSC. It is not my forum of choice due to tenor as well as a number of other factors. There are many other forums that mainly get hit or miss traffic. This one (and MSF) have frequent postings and the tone is more welcoming to all and not about everyone "drinking the same Kool Aid" to fit in.

That said, I have been involved in some of the heated discussions here...You cannot totally avoid controversy in any public forum, moderated or not. However, I think that, in the main, we are a friendly forum. Much of the discussion involves openly sharing information and trying to support each other, which is a good place to be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2009 06:24AM by dee shops.

I've only been shopping for a few months, but it didn't take me long to figure out that Volition was not nice. The folks here are professional, friendly and helpful.. kinda like the customer service we hope to get while shopping.

Thanks all. I look forward to bouncing ideas back and forth. I joined this site because I grew tired of the self promotion at the Volition forum. It was counterproductive and sort of reminded me of high school hierarchy from freshman to senior. It was all so silly and the moderator was part of the problem. I have been shopping now for 6 years at the rate of about 10 assignments per week. I am still learning and may be able to lend a hand, too. I feel that new shoppers offer some of the best ideas with regard to technology and more seasoned shoppers tend to offer great advise as to report writing, red flags and communication with schedulers. Thanks again for your support!

Kathy, if you are shopping that frequently, I am sure you have much to contribute. Please do so... :-)

kathyC,

The webmaster on that board, Volition, once told me that he was GOD and would not post a simple Holiday greeting message that I wanted up for the other shoppers.he does not even want the name of his site mentioned elsewhere, so I now call it the "V-GOD" site so as to not offend him.

Furthermore, there are many ass kissers and double agents on that board who are far too cozy with ms companies. This includes the webmaster himself. They will tattle tale on you like little kids in grammar school, so watch what you say on that board please. But in general, it still is a decent resource.

Arch Stanton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kathyC,
>
> The webmaster on that board, Volition, once told
> me that he was GOD and would not post a simple
> Holiday greeting message that I wanted up for the
> other shoppers.he does not even want the name of
> his site mentioned elsewhere, so I now call it the
> "V-GOD" site so as to not offend him.

We rarely agree on anything, Arch, but I have to agree with you here! :-) I have gotten to read emails forwarded to me in private correspondence that RS sent to other shoppers in response to their potential posts on Violation (sic) that he happened to disagree with...And he sometimes referred to himself as "god." Oh, I guess if your world consists of a small little playground like that and you can control it, you get to play out all your power fantasies in real life.


>
> Furthermore, there are many ass kissers and double
> agents on that board who are far too cozy with ms
> companies. This includes the webmaster himself.
> They will tattle tale on you like little kids in
> grammar school, so watch what you say on that
> board please.

There are those who have done it in the past and bragged of it there. This time, after the fallout, they probably will still do the same but just not brag. And some of the most notorious of the Violation 'players' have started to play ***here*** now. How very unfortunate for those of us here. Now, we have to watch our backs here, so that we don't get tattled on by those who see it as an opportunity to better their in with certain MSC's.

> But in general, it still is a decent resource.

Only if you take into account that you need to read it every day. Otherwise, you will find there the wholesale editing of opinions and threads. This most especially affects those who opinions are different than those drinking the Kool Aid and sucking up to the "god" as those that often get edited out.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2009 09:38PM by dee shops.

I had a gut feeling that these types of things were taking place, I read a few comments from shoppers there challenging the moderator and then they were gone. One shopper challenged the whole bunch of tattlers. But I knew something was very weird when I was told by the founder of a newer MS site that RS contacted him and accused him of copying the Volition site with a great deal of venom. I don't know how he found out about the site, but I would not be surprised if he monitors this one too.

He probably does, and I'm sure we are all "spammers" in his book. Oh well, too bad. But certainly in the "real" world there are a lot of complaints about the degree to which that forum is moderated to this day. I haven't heard much about the owner of that board sending nastygrams in the past year or so, but they used to be venomous trash and indeed outraged reasonable people were forwarding me copies of them. I go there mostly to see if there is recent comment about a company I find that I am not signed up with. That is about the only 'research' I am willing to do there. And heaven forbid you attempt to start a new thread if there was an old one still lying around from 2005!

I think it interesting people feel so strongly, one way or another, about Volition and find the need to extensively discuss it on other boards.

Servanne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it interesting people feel so strongly,
> one way or another, about Volition and find the
> need to extensively discuss it on other boards.


I agree. I use both boards as a tool to learn from. I don't post on Volition as much, simply because it seems like every question I ask has been covered. I almost sort of prefer the fact that Volition tends to be a free-for-all when it comes to people's opinions. If someone disagrees and they are a jerk, then you just move on and don't reply to them. For every person who doesn't agree with you, I would bet you there is someone out there who does.

Servanne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it interesting people feel so strongly,
> one way or another, about Volition and find the
> need to extensively discuss it on other boards.


Why?

Well, if you read the comments on this here thread for example, all are quite negative about Volition. It is clear the posters here do not like that other forum. Yet they feel the need to discuss it. I simply find it interesting. If Volition is the worthless place people think it is, why even bother discussing it?

(Edited for typo)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2009 04:38PM by Servanne.

I've read positive and negative posts here regarding Volition. I find this forum less rigid and less moderated, among other differences. Don't recall anyone posting that "Volition is the worthless place people think it is" as you said. I've seen shoppers here on more than one occasion mention Volition as a resource.

Mert, do not put words in my mouth ;-) I did not say anyone here had posted Volition was a worthless place. I stated that the opinions expressed about Volition were very derogatory and wondered why people felt the need to discuss Volition if indeed there was so little value in a forum which is "not nice" (now that's a quote).

Actually, and how fitting given the title of this thread!, it is more personal attacks against the owner of Volition than anything else. And maybe a little bit of attacks against the frequent posters there too....

The bottom line is this though: some people, including myself, find Volition to be an invaluable resource for all things MS related and more. People like me contribute to Volition daily. Others do not like Volition. That's their prerogative. They do not contribute to Volition. But why go on another forum, talk about it in a negative manner, talk about the owner in such a mean manner and berate the forum? If people are comfortable with their decision to not participate in the discussions on Volition, they should have no reason to discuss why they do not post there. Unless it is somehow bothersome to them to not be contributors on Volition.

Quoting from your post, Servanne. That's actually taking words from your mouth.

People's reasons to berate, defend, participate or not, aren't always known. I agree with you that it's their prerogative.

Servanne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mert, do not put words in my mouth ;-) I did not
> say anyone here had posted Volition was a
> worthless place.

Your exact quote "If Volition is the worthless place people think it is", that gives the implication that someone here said Volition was a worthless place. So were you not putting words in someones mouth, the same thing you said you did not want done to you?

For the record, I rarely visit the Volition boards, so I have no opinion on them one way or the other. But I have been on message boards where what is being described above takes place. What I see here is just people discussing a topic. This is the perfect place for discussing a topic seeing as it is a forum for discussion.

Mert said: "Quoting from your post, Servanne. That's actually taking words from your mouth. " I agree 100%! That would be why this sentence: "Don't recall anyone posting that "Volition is the worthless place people think it is" as you said." would be incorrect, as I certainly did not say anyone posted that.

lisams901, I did not directly quote anyone saying Volition was worthless but will reiterate that the above posts concerning Volition do imply that it is a worthless environment.
Unless of course someone can demonstrate the following quotes praise Volition as being a wonderful place to exchange ideas:
-shoppers insult and criticize one-another with reckless abandon
-They have their own 'playground' and since their intent does not appear to be offering assistance openly and publicly except to emphasize how important conventions, and certifications and books are (to them), their contributions have been of very questionable merit.
-it didn't take me long to figure out that Volition was not nice
-there are many ass kissers and double agents on that board who are far too cozy with ms companies. This includes the webmaster himself. They will tattle tale on you like little kids in grammar school
-you will find there the wholesale editing of opinions and threads. This most especially affects those who opinions are different than those drinking the Kool Aid and sucking up to the "god" as those that often get edited out.

Ahem..Sounds to me like most of this stuff is rather negative...

Look guys, I don't really care what you think about Volition. That is not my problem in the least. I simply pointed out that it was interesting that people who have so little respect for Volition find it necessary to post about it. Under a thread lamenting personal attacks, no less! LOL! If Volition is the terrible place depicted in the quotes above, why would you waste your time discussing it? It just does not make sense to me.

If someone could answer why so many posts revolve around Volition or its owner or the posters there when the medium is not one appreciated, that would be very enlightening to me.

Thank you so much for participating in this discussion, and I do apologize if it looks like I am stirring up some controversy. That is not my intention.

In part there are so many because the denizens of Volition are keeping the thread alive. If you like Volition as your personal choice, post there. That is no reason why all forums have to look like Volition. Those of us who choose not to post there do so for a reason. There is not and has never been a prohibition on this board or most others about having a discussion about other boards.

Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In part there are so many because the denizens of
> Volition are keeping the thread alive. If you
> like Volition as your personal choice, post there.

I do! But does that mean I should not post here too?

> That is no reason why all forums have to look
> like Volition. Those of us who choose not to post
> there do so for a reason. There is not and has
> never been a prohibition on this board or most
> others about having a discussion about other
> boards.

I understand there is no prohibition in posting about other forums, nor should there be. I was just curious WHY people started this discussion.

Thanks for your insight though.

Servanne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> I understand there is no prohibition in posting
> about other forums, nor should there be. I was
> just curious WHY people started this discussion.

Now, I'm curious about something. You may be able to answer, as you've indicated you're a frequent poster on Volition. What is the essence of discussions regarding other forums that have been posted on V?

Other forums are not discussed there often. People have mentioned forums like the MSPA forum, the SI forum, etc. The extent of the discussions have always been civil and respectful as far as I know.
I guess I personally do not see a point in discussing other forums. One might as well just go on whatever other forum and post there rather than discussing it. That's why I am interested in understanding differing opinions.

Servanne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I guess I personally do not see a point in
> discussing other forums.

This is my take on why this thread was started here. I could be wrong, as I said I don't go to Volition much so I haven't paid much attention to this topic here. From how I took it, the OP of this thread felt attacked (or has witnessed attacking) on Volition. She felt not much was done by the mods to prevent the cyber-bullying she saw take place there.

Seeing as mystery shopping is the main focus of this forum and it is also a big topic on Volition boards, it would make sense that some of the same people post here and post there. So, she wanted to get a feel of how this forum runs and it she will encounter some of the same problems here that she did not like on the Volition forum.

lisams,

Your take on my original post was entirely correct. I am watching this thread with interest. I feel that while cyber-bullying cannot be avoided completely, it is the tone of the moderator and frequent flyers that determines the level of acceptance at each forum. That's pretty much it. Glad to be here.

I spent only a little time searching V for mention of other mystery shopping forums, and the search returned no matches. Out of thousands of threads, either no one has posted about other forums, which seems unlikely, or it's disallowed/censored.

Differing opinions about other MS forums, MSPs, or clients - good, bad and ugly - is helpful and willingly shared here by members' experiences.

That is a little surprising, Mert. You would think that with all the potential resources for shoppers on the web that other forums would be included. Certainly MSPA has been mentioned here and is a resource as well as a place to identify their member companies. The SI forum is a good place for feedback about their shops, as are or have been forums sponsored in the past by various MSPs. But it is the forums such as Volition, this one, MSFreedom.org and others where shoppers can hope to communicate with shoppers in what would hope would be a more open fashion.

Thanks for the replies. This is very interesting.

Servanne, You'll notice you're not allowed to defend anyone or any company on here. If someone decides they don't like it, and you defend it, everyone will gang up on you then call your actions "typical" I've seen this on so many threads on this board.