@Rousseau wrote:
Asking when and suggesting that be answered with a date specific is foolish. Before we can have a return to normal, we must have a restoration of the primacy of truth, science, and ethical behavior. A widespread testing regime and an effective vaccination program requires such a return to intelligent decency. As long as there are fools saying the facts, science, and decency ought take a second place to denialism, snake oil remedies, and an attitude that short term profit is more important than human life we will be plagued with cycles of surging illness and death.
@JustForFun wrote:
Collapse of the world economy? I doubt that. Massive and fundamental change? Sure. But collapse, as in it is no more? Nope.
We need things. I need things, you need things. Out in the world or here at home, that doesn't change.
@Tarantado wrote:
@JustForFun wrote:
Collapse of the world economy? I doubt that. Massive and fundamental change? Sure. But collapse, as in it is no more? Nope.
We need things. I need things, you need things. Out in the world or here at home, that doesn't change.
I have things that you want. You have things that I want. That too doesn't change just because we are both at home trying hard not to breath or spit on each other.
So let's make a deal! Congratulations, we have an economy.
Will the transition from the old economy to the new one be painful? Yup. The sooner we find our way in the new rather than crying and clinging to the old, the happier we will all be.
Massive inflation and also a setback for millions of Americans affected by the epidemic, including defaults on loans, foreclosures, if not, forced refinance which could be labeled as a Troubled Debt Restructure (TDR) leading to higher interest rates, lower credit ratings, etc. Yes, very painful.
@panama18 wrote:
And who will produce these things?
@JustForFun wrote:
Collapse of the world economy? I doubt that. Massive and fundamental change? Sure. But collapse, as in it is no more? Nope.
We need things. I need things, you need things. Out in the world or here at home, that doesn't change.
@Shop-et-al wrote:
I feel about twelve most of the time, have a twenty-something bio age in spite of everything, and am oddly affected monetarily by COVID-19.
@Flash wrote:
This conversation is going from sensible to ridiculous.
......
The notion that we will all just trade among ourselves is equally short sighted. How many folks in your neighborhood grow hogs, cows or chickens? Grow tomatoes in February or lettuce all year round? Provide you with milk, butter and yogurt? Have an olive tree and squeeze olive oil in the garage to barter for things they need? Grow rice, wheat, corn and other grains? Unless you have a horse and wagon you will need those things available locally because where are you going to find gas for your car or are you going to find someone to trade you for an electric car and solar panels to be able to charge it?
The economy is global. We are well beyond the possibility of rebounding as an economy if our international partners do not rebound as well. At the moment Americans are in a good spot compared with many/most of our international partners as the American household has relatively little debt compared to assets. We have about 10% of our workforce unemployed already. We need the vaccine so that we can get back to some semblance of normal before we get into a deep recession and/or enough federal debt trying to save our bacon that our only way out is massive inflation that goes much faster than wage growth.
@Flash wrote:
Note that the median age is 48, i.e. half of cases are older than that and half are younger. This is NOT just a geriatric problem.
....
The economy is global. We are well beyond the possibility of rebounding as an economy if our international partners do not rebound as well.
....
We need the vaccine so that we can get back to some semblance of normal before we get into a deep recession and/or enough federal debt trying to save our bacon that our only way out is massive inflation that goes much faster than wage growth.
@JASFLALMT wrote:
Okay, I now have a better understanding.
@Shop-et-al wrote:
I feel about twelve most of the time, have a twenty-something bio age in spite of everything, and am oddly affected monetarily by COVID-19.
@Shop-et-al wrote:
I just love how similar you are to mil. She waits, and watches, and squints, and squirms, and POUnces on things like this and takes things out of context. This is what she does for fun (and it is why I suspect COVID-19 is afraid of her). So I have some consolation during this worldwide tragedy: We cannot go and visit mil in person now, but I can set this up here and have a pretty good cyber show. It is not quite mil, but it isn't too bad as cyber shows go...
Meanwhile, I have to buff the glue and rough spots off of my nails. This was left over after I removed the wonderful looking nails...
@JASFLALMT wrote:
Okay, I now have a better understanding.
@Shop-et-al wrote:
I feel about twelve most of the time, have a twenty-something bio age in spite of everything, and am oddly affected monetarily by COVID-19.
@sestrahelena wrote:
It would be helpful to know if I already have antibodies and whether I am non-contagious. If this were true I would be roaming freely but there is so much contradictory info out there about testing, immunity, etc., that I just don't know. I would, and did, feel safe already.
@ wrote:
It is less clear what those antibody tests mean for real life, however, because immunity functions on a continuum. With some pathogens, such as the varicella-zoster virus (which causes chicken pox), infection confers near-universal, long-lasting resistance. Natural infection with Clostridium tetani, the bacterium that causes tetanus, on the other hand, offers no protection—and even people getting vaccinated for it require regular booster shots. On the extreme end of this spectrum, individuals infected with HIV often have large amounts of antibodies that do nothing to prevent or clear the disease.
At this early stage of understanding the new coronavirus, it is unclear where COVID-19 falls on the immunity spectrum. Although most people with SARS-CoV-2 seem to produce antibodies, “we simply don’t know yet what it takes to be effectively protected from this infection,” says Dawn Bowdish, a professor of pathology and molecular medicine and Canada Research Chair in Aging and Immunity at McMaster University in Ontario. Researchers are scrambling to answer two questions: How long do SARS-CoV-2 antibodies stick around? And do they protect against reinfection?
@roxy1 wrote:
"As long as there are fools saying the facts, science, and decency ought take a second place to denialism, snake oil remedies, and an attitude that short term profit is more important than human life we will be plagued with cycles of surging illness and death."
Here are some FACTS for you Rousseau:
Houston
Covid-19 deaths by age group:
Less years 60 years old: 2
60+ years old: 14
Houston deaths by medical condition:
Pre-existing condition: 16
Healthy: 0
Total:
Covid-19 deaths: 16
People not dead but living under restrictions: 6,370,984
Why are we financially punishing working-age people and crippling the economy rather than addressing the risk where the risk is? This is serious situation and the hard decisions, politically correct or not, need to be made. Quarantine the old and sick. Let the the others return to work albeit with certain restrictions. And let people who choose not to work for whatever reason (taking care of a sick or elderly person, for example), stay home without any penalty. Yes, it would mean more cases of younger people getting sick for a week, but less deaths (though 6,371,000 divided by 14 is already statistically insignificant) and considerably less economic havoc.
@msimon-2000 wrote:
@Rousseau wrote:
Asking when and suggesting that be answered with a date specific is foolish. Before we can have a return to normal, we must have a restoration of the primacy of truth, science, and ethical behavior. A widespread testing regime and an effective vaccination program requires such a return to intelligent decency. As long as there are fools saying the facts, science, and decency ought take a second place to denialism, snake oil remedies, and an attitude that short term profit is more important than human life we will be plagued with cycles of surging illness and death.
Way to dance around the no-politics policy there...
Perhaps you were referring to China's denial of the serious nature of this virus, unwillingness to share the science, and unethical behavior towards the rest of the world in your thread above? Or maybe you are referring to the W.H.O.? I'm guessing your veiled response is quite a bit closer to home, isn't it?
Human existence has been "plagued with cycles of surging illness and death." since the beginning of time. I will personally be more relieved when we have an effective vaccine, an antibodies test (and widespread testing), or a herd immunity to the virus. Of course, let's hope we are not in the midst of another Great Depression by then, which very well may be the case...
@Shop-et-al wrote:
Is the absolute absence of money and buying power for one person less important that the possible recovery from COVID-19 for another person? Who makes up these inane dichotomies? This is nothing more than the games I hated in school. We had to identify ourselves and attempt to persuade everyone why we should be kept on the boat. I was chosen to stay on the boat. My eye twitched for a week after that hideous waste of time and I still want my money back for the classes that included this @$%%^&^*$#%.
In my view, all humans have value. We should be allowed to work if we can, and we should not be chastised if we cannot work. We should be allowed to care for our own if we can, and we should be free to seek assistance if we cannot do that. We should be free to demand better conditions, such as comprehensive packets of protective gear, instead of chastised for speaking out about a glaring deficiency (as I have been here).
Talking of the mask issue, are the people who chastise me for criticizing the inappropriateness of the current status of the mask situation among the deniers? Hmm.
@Tarantado wrote:
@kimmiemae wrote:
Plus, now they are talking about a second wave of infections so that implies a long road ahead.
If additional "Stay at Home" orders are forthcoming, this could really be the collapse of the world's economy.... In regards to the US, is the expectation for the fed's to QE until the point where the dollar truly becomes hyperinflated?
@SoCalMama wrote:
Thank God for the toggle function.
@JASFLALMT wrote:
Some condensed posts would be nice. Shoptastic, when you go on and on I have a hard time reading it. I usually make it through a few lines and then stop reading when I see that it's going to be a novella.
@shoptastic wrote:
THIS IS WHY my family has invested in gold/silver and foreign assets (of companies and countries) where there is a stable currency, low debt, relatively low asset valuations, and lots of economic growth potential.
We took a big chunk of our U.S. record high asset profits, before the stock market crashed in February, and put a bunch in those two areas above. And we've continued to do so now with existing cash. On top of that, we are simply also holding a lot in cash (for safety reasons and possibly buying more if asset prices fall). Although, we still have 30%-40% of our assets in the U.S. I'd never recommend going completely away from the U.S.
@Tarantado wrote:
I still don't see the hype of buying into "precious metals" that literally just sit there. It could be because I'm a younger guy and can weather through these market fluctuations.... Unless of course, it really is the apocalypse and if that's the case, it really doesn't matter what we invest in; we're all screwed!
@Tarantado wrote:
@SoCalMama wrote:
Thank God for the toggle function.
Hope you're not talking about toggling your favorite Asian poster on the forum .
@Tarantado wrote:
3. Fiat currency through constant QE will leave it worth less, so invest in precious metals and foreign assets where their fiat currency experienced less QE.
Eh, don't agree. I believe investing in precious metals is inefficient and like Warren Buffet's view, an asset that just sits there.
@Flash wrote:
Agree 100%. Precious metals and jewels made sense in past centuries when there were less regulated markets and there were wars between petit princes that might require your family emigrate under cover of darkness quickly. Even the idea of a gold wedding ring or one with a diamond was to provide emergency value in uncertain times.
When the US changed its coinage from silver to 'sandwich' metals an acquaintance dug a side cavity in his basement to collect bags and bags of silver dimes because when the 'apocalypse' came his family might be able to trade a silver dime for a loaf of bread. About twenty years later when the old man died his kids got to dispose of all the sacks of coins and after a lot of effort and inquiry found someone willing to pay about 20% above face value. Luckily they did not have to pay the assay fees that are needed with bullion privately owned nor had the coins needed to be held in rental storage for all those years. If the same amount of cash had been simply put into a savings account, after 20 years it would have been worth more.
@F and L TeleComm wrote:
Ok, so China physically blocked roads, etc to completely isolate the citizens that they thought were infected. Wuhan just got off lockdown after 11 weeks I think it was. I think that we are looking at the same (or even longer). Ours just started March 16th. Using that analogy we are looking at close to mid-June before we can go back out. Now here is an issue that I would want to be addressed before any of us go back out into society. Disinfectant wipes need to be in widespread availability and hand sanitizer. Without these two mitigators, there's no way I will feel safe. But as for me, myself, and I (and of course my sig other) we will not rejoin the working until this happens and we will actually use hand sanitizer and wipes way more than we ever did before. This will not change even if the government says it's ok.
If any of you use or know someone who uses public transportation, you/yours need to be even more CAUTIOUS. You need to sit by yourself on buses/trains, do not travel during rush hour at all, and carry your very own wipes. Wipe all poles, doors, chairs that you sit on, etc. anywhere that hand even starts to touch. WE can never go back to the "the way we were". That kind of naivety should be gone forever.
@ wrote:
Arturo Casadevall and collaborators at Johns Hopkins and beyond have worked around the clock to develop a convalescent serum therapy to treat COVID-19 using blood plasma from recovered patients. If early promising studies on the therapy done in China are confirmed by U.S. trials, thousands of survivors might soon line up to donate their antibody-rich plasma. "I absolutely think this could be the best treatment we have for the next few months," Hopkins pathologist Aaron Tobian says.
@ wrote:
A vaccine against the coronavirus could be ready by September, according to a scientist leading one of Britain’s most advanced teams.
Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at Oxford University, told The Times on Saturday that she is “80% confident” the vaccine would work, and could be ready by September. Experts have warned the public that vaccines typically take years to develop, and one for the coronavirus could take between 12 to 18 months at best.
In the case of the Oxford team, however, “it’s not just a hunch, and as every week goes by we have more data to look at,” Gilbert told the London newspaper.
Something to be concerned about is India. As they enter winter, will they see a spike in cases and deaths? And, can the second most populous country on Earth, which is also very poor in many places and lacks modern healthcare infrastructure handle a large outbreak? India's situation is scary.@shoptastic wrote:
Will 1-3% of people on Earth die from COVID-19 ultimately?