For some these things are inconveniences, disruptions to normal routine; for the ones whose lives depend on them, they are exactly that, life-savers.
To paraphrase our leader: Not every one gets a chance to save a life but you can (by following the health guidelines, etc)

No one is saying to "lock" yourselve's in your home, we all need fresh air, so take a walk, sit in the garden/do gardening, write, read, use this time to do things you never had time to do.
I walk in the garden daily, enjoying the April blooms...just do it with caution, wearing masks, yes they are uncomfortable, big deal, our health is worth it. Bringing you closer to your mate may just be a blessing, talk to each other, use this time wisely, I know I am reflecting a lot, and changing some things, definitely appreciating the little things, and yes, praying this will come to an end soon, with no more lives lost.

Answering the thread's question, I will never feel safe going out in public as I once did.
I will always be aware of my surrounding's, and distance myself from strangers...that's how I feel now, hopefully this will change, we'll see. I do know it will be a different world and until we get a virus vaccine to prevent this, I will not feel safe.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2020 05:31PM by Irene_L.A..

@Shop-et-al wrote:

It is equally bad. Denying some people the essential nurturance that their beings need is like starving their souls to death. This, then, is another death. It is short-sighted not to consider the many and varied aspects of humans when imposing plans that will affect everyone.

Do your really want this for other people?

You just cannot fix crazy.

Going into public places and not practicing proper social distancing and sanitization is essential nurturance?
I strongly disagree. You wrote in another thread that you are sick with some sort of crud. I hope it isn't COVID-19. But even if it isn't, did it just manifest all by itself? Somehow you went somewhere and picked it up in a public place. Hmmm.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

It is equally bad. Denying some people the essential nurturance that their beings need is like starving their souls to death. This, then, is another death. It is short-sighted not to consider the many and varied aspects of humans when imposing plans that will affect everyone.

Do your really want this for other people?

Two of my friends in Florida (a married couple) are retired nurses. They went to a hospital to visit a sick friend. Both observed extremely vigilant sanitizing protocol, but still managed to get the virus. The wife is doing okay, her husband is very ill. If those two can get it without even working on the front lines and just with minimal exposure, anyone can get it. I am staying the heck away from public places and hospitals!

How can they be certain that they caught it at the hospital? Regardless of where and when they acquired the covid-19, I wish your friends a complete and speedy recovery.

So back to me. I am delighted to report that the crud (which I know from years before covid-19) has passed and I am on to funner things. Did I mention Britcom? Well, I finished that and have started watching Columbo again.

Would it be nice if we, like Lt. Columbo, already knew what covid-19 would do and could set a little evidence or etiological trap for it and put it away forever? Staying indoors does not destroy the disease. In some places, it is not feasible to be outdoors... Alas...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2020 12:12AM by Shop-et-al.

Because the only place they had been for the past month was that hospital to visit that sick friend, and they hadn't had guests in their home. Logical to assume the only place someone goes where there are people (in this instance, the hospital where people had it) is the place where someone contracted it. The wife is good, but the husband had high blood pressure and was at risk, so he is feeling pretty horrible. They only made him go home because someone else who needed that room was sicker than he was (I think that's a recurring theme lately at many hospitals). Though neither of them are young, they will be fine I am sure.

Interestingly, staying indoors does destroy the disease directly if it's on cardboard or other non-living materials. If someone leaves shelf-stable food items in the garage for a number of days, the virus dies without a living host. Additionally, if someone brings in their refrigerated food items and disinfects them before putting them away, the virus dies this way as well.

Glad your crud is gone.'

@Shop-et-al wrote:

How can they be certain that they caught it at the hospital? Regardless of where and when they acquired the covid-19, I wish your friends a complete and speedy recovery.

So back to me. I am delighted to report that the crud (which I know from years before covid-19) has passed and I am on to funner things. Did I mention Britcom? Well, I finished that and have started watching Columbo again.

Would it be nice if we, like Lt. Columbo, already knew what covid-19 would do and could set a little evidence or etiological trap for it and put it away forever? Staying indoors does not destroy the disease. In some places, it is not feasible to be outdoors... Alas...

So humans do not need to stay at home in order for the disease to be destroyed. Let the people go free already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Oh Good gawd. You know perfectly well that you going out and about spreading your dis-ease isn't going to make things any better for anyone...except maybe you (in your mind).

The disease needs people (and apparently felines and maybe other creatures as well) to survive. If it never gets a chance to enter the lungs of a victim the virus dies.

Solution: Don't let it enter lungs. Do this by avoiding sharing air space with others and making sure you keep your hands clean. Pretty simple solution if only everyone would do it the virus would be gone in a couple of weeks.

Being in public doesn't give me much more anxiety now than it did before. I prefer the social distancing protocols being widespread; it makes my preferences seem less weird. I live in a rural area and appreciate that there's not much that's different in my lifestyle right now. The place I am more nervous is at home. I have most of the underlying health conditions that make people more vulnerable. When my "essential worker" family comes home, I don't know what they're bringing in and at this point it would be weird to shut myself away in a more private part of the house, wearing a mask when I come out. So I can't get away from that level of risk. Fear seldom sneaks in. But when it does, it's my daughter coming home and hugging me or my husband wanting a kiss.

There's so much each of us is thinking and feeling about this issue right now... it's hard to limit a response to the question asked!

Best wishes for your safety, lowcloud. I hope your family keeps their hands clean and takes your health risks into consideration. I honestly don't think it would be odd for you to ask for some solitude and isolation if you fear for your health.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Best wishes for your safety, lowcloud. I hope your family keeps their hands clean and takes your health risks into consideration. I honestly don't think it would be odd for you to ask for some solitude and isolation if you fear for your health.

@lowcloud wrote:

Being in public doesn't give me much more anxiety now than it did before. I prefer the social distancing protocols being widespread; it makes my preferences seem less weird. I live in a rural area and appreciate that there's not much that's different in my lifestyle right now. The place I am more nervous is at home. I have most of the underlying health conditions that make people more vulnerable. When my "essential worker" family comes home, I don't know what they're bringing in and at this point it would be weird to shut myself away in a more private part of the house, wearing a mask when I come out. So I can't get away from that level of risk. Fear seldom sneaks in. But when it does, it's my daughter coming home and hugging me or my husband wanting a kiss.

There's so much each of us is thinking and feeling about this issue right now... it's hard to limit a response to the question asked!

I second JAS' post.

If you do need some separation in-home, I think that would be understandable. I will add you to my prayer list. There are numerous people on this forum that I pray for.

Read my post in 'what are you doing today' and re-think this.

But God really is good. Not even you can change that.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Oh Good gawd. You know perfectly well that you going out and about spreading your dis-ease isn't going to make things any better for anyone...except maybe you (in your mind).

@Shop-et-al wrote:

So humans do not need to stay at home in order for the disease to be destroyed. Let the people go free already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

How can you be so selfish. and non observant of rules...I take this as your life and others don't mean much.

They have closed many of our streets, my block and a mile or so, plus others throughout the city, to avoid speeding which was being done. Thank you to both our Mayor and Governor for your diligence and care. I am lucky, our grounds have a beautiful garden with the tables and chairs placed 6 feet apart. I walk early morning, no one is out and again after dinner, obeying rules. The degree this week is over 90, so hardly anyone goes out.
and 100% of our community is in their homes, working and spending quality time with loved ones,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2020 04:24PM by Irene_L.A..

I misspelled it as gawd on purpose. Don't bring your religion into this. Your religion is not everyone else's.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Read my post in 'what are you doing today' and re-think this.

But God really is good. Not even you can change that.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Oh Good gawd. You know perfectly well that you going out and about spreading your dis-ease isn't going to make things any better for anyone...except maybe you (in your mind).

Meanwhile, I felt comfortable going out today. I forgot one errand, and I will be comfortable when I go out again in a few minutes for that necessary task. But I live in a sparsely populated town and state where people and places are far flung. Confining people here is less useful and helpful than confining them in places that are crowded and have the worst air pollution. The few exceptions are dorms, in-patient facilities, and on reservations. Tribal people tend to live closely, and this has hit some of the tribes in the nation extremely hard. They have little space to begin with, and now they have to separate as best they can within those small quarters. This is sad. So I will go and do my errand now instead of embarking upon a tangential tirade about bad history...

[www.afar.com]

New Zealand is under stringent lockdown and have come close to eliminating this virus (see above).

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Meanwhile, I felt comfortable going out today. I forgot one errand, and I will be comfortable when I go out again in a few minutes for that necessary task. But I live in a sparsely populated town and state where people and places are far flung. Confining people here is less useful and helpful than confining them in places that are crowded and have the worst air pollution. The few exceptions are dorms, in-patient facilities, and on reservations. Tribal people tend to live closely, and this has hit some of the tribes in the nation extremely hard. They have little space to begin with, and now they have to separate as best they can within those small quarters. This is sad. So I will go and do my errand now instead of embarking upon a tangential tirade about bad history...

Shop-et-al,

I sent ya a PM a few days ago, by the way.

I think there are conflicting theories for how rural/less dense areas might be affected by COVID-19. One article I read tried to use flu fatalities as a predictor:

[www.washingtonpost.com] (March 19, 2020)

Rural areas had the highest death rate (per 100,000 people) over the last five years. Large urban cities had the lowest. Okay, so clearly using this would not have been correct for predicting COVID-19's impact on big cities. ...

But it's at least interesting and perhaps good to take heed of as a warning. While distance in rural areas can prevent spread to some degree, it can also act as a negative post-contraction of the virus for some. The far drives to get medical help can be an issue. That's one of the reasons the article posits for why flu deaths may have been higher in rural areas. ...Who knows: maybe urban people have higher flu herd immunity already, closer medical care, and get vaccinated more often. Not sure.

I think a good take-away (I recommend the article to anyone/everyone) is that distance to care might be something to "prep" for if you're in a rural area. If it takes you a while to get to a hospital, maybe be extra careful if any "severe" symptoms arise and consider various ways to deal with that that would make sense for you (e.g., maybe driving "earlier" to get care and not waiting "too long" ).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2020 03:17AM by shoptastic.

^^^I also continue to just say in a friendly reminder sort of way to just try to avoid getting the virus altogether. One thing with that article is that it was written March 19th. We don't know how COVID-19 will spread and its growth curve trajectory outside of the hot spots so far (Northeast). It's JUST NOW beginning to pick up elsewhere. Each state/region has its own dynamics and timeline.

Keep in mind how exponential growth works. . .you start with just a few cases that look like not much is happening. But, if left unchecked, it can explode up in numbers to where the growth is enormous. With infectious asymptomatic spreaders (unlike SARS, which mainly spread after a person shows symptoms), you cannot tell who has it.

If I sound like a broken record, it's because I love everyone! I want people to be safe. The virus' growth outside the Northeast may just be picking up steam. We'll have to see. So, let's try to flatten this curve everywhere we all live and do our own parts! Let's all fight for each other! *In Love!*

One annoying feature with the forum posting algo is that when you have a quotation mark, parenthesis, and period next to each other, it creates a winky face. It did that two posts above this one when I ended it with "too long" ....unintentional winky appeared...fixed it, but still just wanted to note that, as it looked inappropriate (to anyone who may have saw it) and to remind myself to be careful of that in the future.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2020 03:21AM by shoptastic.

How do your theorists explain the low incidence of the disease and high rate of recovery in this rural place? Even vulnerable populations such as those in assisted living situations are surviving the dratted disease here!

The theories look wiggly and jiggly when such anomalies present additional possibilities which exist beyond the hypothesized parameters. Are those theories really just unproved and likely plainly wrong hypotheses? It takes a lot to get from hypothesis to theory regardless of the fundamental concept.

So I am gazing at a fresh blanket of snow. Yesterday's beloved rainstorm ended, and I slept. A few hours later, a soft snow fell and provided enough material to spark memories of Currier & Ives scenes and inspire a playful notion of building a snow person outdoors. Hmmmm..... this could be fun.... as long as no one wants to play too closely to me and help me put it together...

Finding these posts long and time consuming with nothing new to say....just bantering.

So. Irene. Long time no cyber-see! What is new with you, in your new little part of the world?

Not knowing where you live (No, I am not asking), it's hard to answer your question about the prevalence of COVID-19 in your area or its mortality rate.... However, in general, it reaches rural areas more slowly than it does industrialized areas as, very simply, fewer people pass through them and lower the chances of starting an infection. However, once the virus is there, it will spread -and it will kill. Rural areas are largely projected to have a lower survival rate than more urban areas as they have two things working against them: less hospital capacity to deal with severe cases and populations that don't heed the warnings of health professionals... I do say "projected" for one simple reason: Many (most?) areas have not yet experienced the worst of it.

I spend way too much time starting at the Johns Hopkins maps and I don't know of any location where, magically, the residents seem to be surviving the disease at a significantly higher rate than other locations (unless there is not a proper sample size), so I'm skeptical of your claim there.

As of right now, at least 50,890 people of been killed by this thing - and that's in about a three-month time period. Most of those folks passed in the month of April.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

How do your theorists explain the low incidence of the disease and high rate of recovery in this rural place? Even vulnerable populations such as those in assisted living situations are surviving the dratted disease here!

The theories look wiggly and jiggly when such anomalies present additional possibilities which exist beyond the hypothesized parameters. Are those theories really just unproved and likely plainly wrong hypotheses? It takes a lot to get from hypothesis to theory regardless of the fundamental concept.
...

We probably will not experience much more than we have done so far. Schools are closed through summer school (and I suspect that tptb will extend this time frame). Our "large" gathering places are like nun cells compared to other, well known gathering places around the world-- and they are closed. We have no large workplace facilities such as manufacturing and packing plants. Many smallish workplaces here are closed, and the largest of offices are either closed, spreading people out, or letting them work from home. Visitors are required to self-quarantine for two weeks.

I know that one formula for all is a neat goal. It is like simplicity itself! But it cannot account for the unique features of places which make one blanket command unnecessary or at least not very useful in places like this one.

This is not to brag, though. I know that I am blessed, fortunate, and lucky (and then some!) because I live here and not in a high risk place. This is more to provoke acceptance of differences and to make a few people question whether one blanket command for all is as useful as a careful study of each place that yields specific recommendations that make sense for each place. The fed is large, has many resources, and is for general oversight only. But each state has relevant resources and the ability to apply knowledge at the micro level.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2020 10:07PM by Shop-et-al.

Ya'll surely realize the temporary nature of the "control" exercised by public officials who think locking down the country indefinitely is an option. It's not. Virus or no virus, the American people will not sit around indefinitely and watch the bills pile up. Out of desperation they will reopen the country themselves if their elected officials don't. First come the protests, then comes mass civil disobedience as people go back to work. There is no alternative, except in the minds of those whose income streams are unaffected.

I'm frankly expecting (and hoping) to see some very positive outcomes from all this.

I am retired so am feeling no need to rush back out into the fray. But I note that my bills for March are a little under 2/3 what they normally are. Not a coincidence. Our standard Sunday night restaurant outing with the family have been dropped because of COVID. I have filled the gas tank only once in the past two months. I am cooking more and baking more at home and while I normally feed the 4 of us at my house once a week we are eating together now 3-4 times a week as I teach/supervise my sons fixing family favorites at one of their houses. We aren't out there buying impulse items because the price is right.

What would I hope to see as a positive outcome? If we were a two income family with kids who are now home, perhaps we could get by on a single income so that one of us could be home with the kids and/or do home schooling. Home schooling could help keep our kids safe. We could save money if we didn't need to pay for child care. We could at least try it for a year or two until there is a vaccine that can keep us all safe.

Perhaps now that we have waved to the neighbors, maybe banged pots with them, maybe introduced ourselves and commiserated with them from acceptable social distance, it may be time to invite them over for a social distance backyard BBQ and get to know them better. Perhaps it is time to actually be neighbors.