I suspect that the Senators who are in for a hotly contested election fight are going to be the easy ones to influence. And I suspect that they will hear mostly from folks who are long unemployed! Few of those constituents are going to urge a cut in CARES Act UI benefits.
Late afternoon update from the WA Post states that more senators are suddenly interested in keeping the $600 benefit. Hmmm.

@Sandy Shopper wrote:

Keep trying. I once read that it only took 10 people to call or write to get the attention of their local congressperson. Keep trying.

I live in a state Donald Trump won by 25 points and both Senators are huge supporters. Trust me, no amount of calls to those idiots will make them move off the party line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 09:08PM by bgriffin.

I know where bgriffin lives (That is NOT a threat bg.) and he happens to be right about his senators.

bgriffin and walesmaven, that is a hard thing to overcome, but right now is the time when most representatives are most receptive to hearing things they would otherwise not consider. I would be discouraged, too, if I were in bgriffin's shoes.

But there's this: McConnell signal to Republican Senate candidates: Distance from Trump if necessary

(Can you tell I'm an eternal optimist?)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 09:49PM by Sandy Shopper.

Signals, schmignals. Some have done this already. It is no big deal, really. Romney is one of these. The worst that could happen to him? The Utahans vote him out and he picks up a well-paid CEO or speaker career. Perhaps a book deal would be more likely. Either way, he loses nothing- and probably gets substantially more moolah.

Life in general around the world is in a muddle now. It is absurd to think that any individual or party can make decisions which will be impervious to obsolescence or irrelevance as rapid changes in the near and distant future occur and affect everyone in one way or another.







.

When ya'll get through wanting, go to Amazon, pick up a free copy (Kindle) of Fiat Money Inflation in France, and read it. While you're there, pick up a copy of "When Money Dies" by Adam Fergusson and read that too. It'll sober you up.

@panama18 wrote:

When ya'll get through wanting, go to Amazon, pick up a free copy (Kindle) of Fiat Money Inflation in France, and read it. While you're there, pick up a copy of "When Money Dies" by Adam Fergusson and read that too. It'll sober you up.

So you're not a Stephanie Kelton fan, huh?

Uh, no. If there's a road to ruin, it's Modern Monetary Theory. Some people never learn.

Time to switch to decaf, maybe ?

Not all health care providers are highly paid. DD's have 3 friends who are CNA's. Two take the bus to work every day. A one way trip takes 2 hours. The other takes the bus as well and it takes her an hour one way provided the bus is on time. They get paid $13-16/hour, go to work every day and work hard. They get tested for COVID-19 2X per week, wear triple masks, face shields, gloves and surgical suits all day. Overheard a few late teens/early 20's while on line at COSTCO a few days ago. "I'm not going back to work until they stop paying me $600 per week plus UI. This is GREAT" I realize this is just one view of the current situation now with employment and the economy but it infuriates me.

Thanks for the tip. I will support a scaled-back approach.

@Madetoshop wrote:

Overheard a few late teens/early 20's while on line at COSTCO a few days ago. "I'm not going back to work until they stop paying me $600 per week plus UI. This is GREAT" I realize this is just one view of the current situation now with employment and the economy but it infuriates me.

My feeling is that there will always be such freeloaders or exploiters in society, but that we shouldn't not help those who truly need it just because of those who take advantage of a program. I'd rather still extend stimulus in the current form, knowing there will be some "cheaters," than hurt those who are innocent.

I also think those immature views will hurt a person longer term. A person who is always looking to cut corners or take an easy way out, instead of building up skills for themselves, taking personal responsibility, and looking to create a better life for themselves will still be stuck in the same place 10...20...30 years from now. I remember cheating in school once. I thought I had "gotten away" with it by not getting officially caught. But, it hurt me, because I never put in the time and work to learn the skills that would have helped me later in harder courses.

It was a tough, but valuable life lesson! Be honorable. Do your best. Take responsibility. Use your comparative advantages (you don't have to be great at everything, but everyone is usually good at something unique to themselves). Work hard and smart. ...Success might not come overnight. But, it will come eventually and you'll have had a solid foundation on which is was built. No one can take those skills away from you. You built them brick by brick from the bottom and you can carry them all throughout your life.

Shoptastic said: "My feeling is that there will always be such freeloaders or exploiters in society, but that we shouldn't not help those who truly need it just because of those who take advantage of a program."

Exactly! Most people are well aware that being on unemployment is not going to further their career or just-a-job goals. Most people are thinking ahead to getting back to work, getting earned raises, getting promoted, paying in to social security for their retirement years, etc. MOST PEOPLE are not so shortsighted that $600 a week for several months looks nearly as good as a more secure future.

@Sandy Shopper wrote:

bgriffin and walesmaven, that is a hard thing to overcome, but right now is the time when most representatives are most receptive to hearing things they would otherwise not consider. I would be discouraged, too, if I were in bgriffin's shoes.

But there's this: McConnell signal to Republican Senate candidates: Distance from Trump if necessary

(Can you tell I'm an eternal optimist?)

Let's say I lived in South Carolina (I don't). Should I bother writing to Lindsey Graham? Is there absolutely anything I could say to him to move the needle? And at least 1 of mine is actually worse

@bgriffin wrote:

Let's say I lived in South Carolina (I don't). Should I bother writing to Lindsey Graham? Is there absolutely anything I could say to him to move the needle? And at least 1 of mine is actually worse

"Let's say I lived in South Carolina (I don't). Should I bother writing to Lindsey Graham? Is there absolutely anything I could say to him to move the needle? And at least 1 of mine is actually worse"

A friend of mine said progress can be like repeatedly hitting your head against a brick wall. Usually all you get is a bad headache, but every once in a while, the wall falls down.

If I of all people can get by without any of the state unemployment benefits and without any of the federal Covid unemployment benefits, other people should be able to figure out how to do this.

Harsh? Of course! But I am not a theoretical person for an argument. I am a real, live, living, breathing person who does not ask more of others than what I already do and have been doing since those benefits were introduced. I received one stimulus check in the first round of those widely distributed checks. I may or may not be eligible for another one..

@Shop-et-al wrote:

If I of all people can get by without any of the state unemployment benefits and without any of the federal Covid unemployment benefits, other people should be able to figure out how to do this.

Harsh? Of course! But I am not a theoretical person for an argument. I am a real, live, living, breathing person who does not ask more of others than what I already do and have been doing since those benefits were introduced. I received one stimulus check in the first round of those widely distributed checks. I may or may not be eligible for another one..

Almost half of Americans couldn't cover a $400 emergency pre-COVID.

Lots of people don't have savings, Shop-et-al. Without federal and state bailout/UI help, they'd be starving and homeless with more people unemployed than current job openings.

Sarah Bloom Raskin stated on CNBC that there are only 5 million job openings for the 30+ million unemployed right now. People wanting work often cannot even find it.

Thus, this is no time for the U.S. skimp on the aid. If they can magically print a few trillion to prop up the stock market and bail out over-leveraged private equity and hedge funds in March/April, while also buying corporate junk bonds now, then they can find/print the money to bail out 30+ million Americans right now.

No more socialism for Wall Street, large corporations, and the wealthy and brutal, lift yourself up by-the-bootstraps Horatio Alger capitalism for everyone else!

That brutal, lift yourself up by the bootstraps may work for some people, but what about my 65 year old neighbor who is raising her orphaned 9 year old? What about the disabled guy who used to work at walmart until they added "able to climb a ladder" to his job description and let him go because he could not perform those duties? What about my cousin, who got laid off and can't go back to work until his union gives the all-clear, even if there were work to be had? What about all the moms who relied on before & after school daycare in order to work?

Oh well just remember that Amazon has not paid any taxes since it started and they brought in over four billion last year. So do you really think that the congresscritters care about the people? Or how about the hedge fund manager that that caused the camping and outdoor company to be sold and made a killing off of the stock. Think he will pay his fair share of taxes I really doubt it.

@panama18 wrote:

Uh, no. If there's a road to ruin, it's Modern Monetary Theory. Some people never learn.

I'm undecided on MMT. I tend to think it can be potentially used in a helpful way, but certainly contains the elevated risk of ruin if done in a reckless, irresponsible way. Given most politicians' proclivity towards short-term thinking over long-term financial well-being of their countries, more than likely MMT would lead to more bad outcomes than good ones when used by governments, imho.

Although, it's all academic at this point, since:
a.) The U.S. is beyond the point of being able to pay back its debts with growth/austerity/taxation and must either officially default (which is embarrassing and no super power nation typically does - not to mention the short-term pain it would cause economically that many politicians would not stomach) or unofficially default (hyper-inflation at worst or just moderate inflation at best in the coming years); and
b.) We've already entered MMT territory recently and will continue printing, given COVID-19 and the unprecedented global depression we are in.

We have record high Gilded Age inequality in America, an inadequate social safety net (including, lack of universal healthcare), anemic economic growth for the past decade, and not enough buyers of U.S. Treasuries in recent years (which is why the Federal Reserve has had to step in with printed money). There isn't a way for us fiscally fund an emergency bailout that I believe is moral and very much economically needed at this point without monetizing the debts. Foreigners and our own citizens buying Treasuries is not enough.

Ultimately, inflation in the future will be the likely way out of our debts, but we've done this before in history and the U.S. turned out okay. The one group that could be hurt greatly under current conditions is the poor. Inflation will wreck their livelihoods and personal finances, as they don't have the money to save into appreciating assets (stocks, real estate, and commodities), as their everyday living expenses could skyrocket (while earning the same). BUT, that might not necessarily be the case. If the U.S. swings back towards a more progressive taxation on things and funds more safety net programs that benefit the lower-classes, then they may fair okay.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2020 12:33AM by shoptastic.

So, are they saving any of their handout money now?

@shoptastic wrote:

@Shop-et-al wrote:

....
Lots of people don't have savings, Shop-et-al. Without federal and state bailout/UI help, they'd be starving and homeless with more people unemployed than current job openings.

(

Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu

Not meaning to sound argumentative, but how can they save anything when they aren't even getting enough to keep a roof over their head?

When they had money, did they save a little something for at least the first six months of [covid, natural disaster, other calamity, anything unforeseen but yet predictable in that something will undoubtedly befall us sooner or later]?

They might need to up the $1,200 to $3000, as inflation has hit groceries:
[www.washingtonpost.com] (Aug. 4)

@ wrote:

For the unemployed, rising grocery prices stretch budgets even more

Beef and veal prices rose 20.2 percent, and eggs rose 10.4 percent since February, according to data released Friday by the Bureau of Economic Analysis

Sean Valadez, 35, of the greater Los Angeles area, came home from Costco in mid-March with a $600 receipt, hoping his grocery haul would feed his family for up to 45 days after he lost work in the music and live entertainment industry. When he went back to the store 40 days later, Valadez was stunned by the rise in prices for ground beef, chicken, salmon and eggs. The grocery bill was an eye-popping $1,000, not including the alcohol he also purchased.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 06:15PM by shoptastic.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

When they had money, did they save a little something for at least the first six months of [covid, natural disaster, other calamity, anything unforeseen but yet predictable in that something will undoubtedly befall us sooner or later]?

We could ask the same of corporate America. Why didn't they deleverage and pay down their debts the past decade?: [www.forbes.com]

@ wrote:

According to a Forbes investigation, which analyzed 455 companies in the S&P 500 Index—excluding banks and cash-rich tech giants like Apple, Amazon, Google and Microsoft—on average, businesses in the index nearly tripled their net debt over the past decade, adding some $2.5 trillion in leverage to their balance sheets. The analysis shows that for every dollar of revenue growth over the past decade, the companies added almost a dollar of debt.

Today, tax-payers have to bailout these profligate corporations - many of them whose finances are so bad they have junk rated debt:

@ wrote:

All told, the Federal Reserve is now earmarking $750 billion, supported by $75 billion from taxpayers, to help large companies survive the pandemic—all part of its $2.3 trillion rescue package.

American Airlines gets a $5.8 billion grant. Yay. Meanwhile, some members of Congress aren't sure if Sally or Jose across the street should continue to be supported in this once-in-a-century pandemic that's brought down the global economy. Either no one should get bailed out or everyone should, imho.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2020 12:23AM by shoptastic.

Did you like how Mitch McConnell neatly passed the ball to everyone else? He said he'd support whatever the WH and the lower house can work out.

Meanwhile, I was donating stuff today (not a shop) and was in a loooooooooooooong line of cars at the drive-thru drop-off spot. I wondered how many people were just cleaning up and keeping things in circulation/out of the landfill; how many were doing a mystery shop that required an in-person donation; and how many were like me. Were they also thinking that during this limbo between fed handouts that it might be good to put things into an affordable market for students or anyone who could use a break?

Biting my tongue ...

McConnell has no choice. His caucus is all over the map. By default the Dems are driving this thing because the Republicans can't get organized. I'm starting to think they will extend the $600 as is. We'll see what the Rs get in exchange. Those liability protections, maybe.

I can't imagine why there would be long lines at the thrift stores, unless a lot of people are prepping for a move. I really hope that's not the case. It's a very disturbing thought.

Clearing out storage units maybe, to cut expenses.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Did you like how Mitch McConnell neatly passed the ball to everyone else? He said he'd support whatever the WH and the lower house can work out.

Meanwhile, I was donating stuff today (not a shop) and was in a loooooooooooooong line of cars at the drive-thru drop-off spot. I wondered how many people were just cleaning up and keeping things in circulation/out of the landfill; how many were doing a mystery shop that required an in-person donation; and how many were like me. Were they also thinking that during this limbo between fed handouts that it might be good to put things into an affordable market for students or anyone who could use a break?