risinghorizon wrote

< I am normally not a fighter but I learned that one cannot be altogether docile <at all times or one becomes open to abuse. There is a time when we have to <fight for something worth fighting for. And time to cut our losses. Knowing the <difference is something else. Good luck!

I start docile and businesslike but when I am not dealing with an MSC that has integrity I take the gloves off and escalate. Unfortunately they do pay, but I would not want to deal with that company again and the feeling is mutual. They do not send offers of assignments.

I do the same with any company who thinks they are too big to give customer service. I do not go to the Better Business Bureau. I have seen articles that indicate shady companies can buy a good rating by "supporting" the BBB, while their public image is in the toilet.

shopperbob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 2nd paragraph begins by mentioning "helping
> others;" I work to help BOB.
>
> With respect to CORI, an MSC from whom I requested
> deactivation before completing any work, this is
> business and obviously their model is successful.
> While being devoid of any interest in a business
> relationship, I admire their ability to turn a
> profit.

As Barnum said, "There is a sucker born every minute"
Newbies come into mystery shopping desperate for a dollar and without the experience to know CORI and others who pay peanuts until the end of the month when the shops are still on the board will raise the fee. Then it becomes a foot race and poker game to see who can cash in before someone else calls. There will always be college students who are eating Mac and cheese and Retired people who go to the mall anyway just to have human interaction. If they make a buck or two
They eat tonight or they beat their boredom. It is not only newbies that need to take the $2 & $4 shops. They know what they are doing but do not have another way to get there.

I only take the low paying shops, if they provide a high reimbursement. Bed Bath and Beyond shops let me spend 11$ on the company, plus get $5. I replace my kitchen utensils one at a time like this...lol. To take those kinds of shops, they need to take 5 min or less to input. Thats my cut off

I am often amazed to log on and see the shops for $4 gone. I'm thinking.. thanks silly person, those bonus at the end of the month, and I do them for $15... grrr !!

That's kind of funny and ironic... that MSC/clients expect MS to evaluate customer service standards in a snapshot yet some MSC/clients fail to/will not provide good/excellent customer service to the very people who evalute THEIR customer service.
Interesting concept.

Thank you for the education. You're invaluable to this new MS.

Piled Hip Deep, PHD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> risinghorizon wrote
>
> < I am normally not a fighter but I learned that
> one cannot be altogether docile <at all times or
> one becomes open to abuse. There is a time when we
> have to <fight for something worth fighting for.
> And time to cut our losses. Knowing the
> <difference is something else. Good luck!
>
> I start docile and businesslike but when I am not
> dealing with an MSC that has integrity I take the
> gloves off and escalate. Unfortunately they do
> pay, but I would not want to deal with that
> company again and the feeling is mutual. They do
> not send offers of assignments.
>
> I do the same with any company who thinks they are
> too big to give customer service. I do not go to
> the Better Business Bureau. I have seen articles
> that indicate shady companies can buy a good
> rating by "supporting" the BBB, while their public
> image is in the toilet.

Does anyone know if the shops that are stated as rejected are not really rejected on the MSC/client end? I mean, is it possible that the report is forwarded to the client and accepted but stated to the shopper that it was rejected so as to not pay the shopper?
Is that possible? Does anyone know??

risinghorizon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jersey07032 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm less concerned about the fees than the lack
> of
> > overall control. And fairness. I recently did
> a
> > shop for Remington that was rejected even though
> I
> > did nothing wrong.. even the scheduler
> originally
> > told me I was ok and I got a 9 on the
> shop.(Until
> > it was changed to a 0) I lost a good 3 hours
> and
> > $35 on that one. I also had a shop rejected by
> StN
> > due to semantics. And, GfK still owes me a $20
> > bonus. In all cases, there is no appeal process.
> I
> > tried emailing the scheduler and owner of
> > Remington and both messages were bounced back
> to
> > me...they have put me on their spam list. I can
> > vent on this Forum, maybe even complain to the
> > Better Business Bureau. But really, what good
> > does that do? I have read many, many, many
> posts
> > from shoppers who have had similar experiences.
> I
> > KNOW some shops are rejected for valid reasons,
> > but even then...we put in the time and effort.
>
>
> Oh, no! This really makes me very angry. I
> cannot stand MS companies who ignore shoppers and
> do not provide any explanation. Remember that the
> contract obligates them too. It is a commitment
> between the company and the shopper. You are
> entitled to a valid explanation as to why they are
> reneging on their obligation to pay you if you
> have fulfilled your part of the terms of the
> agreement and can prove it! Being Independent
> Contractors does not mean the shoppers are the
> only ones obligated by that contract.
>
>
> Twice, it happened to me and the accounting
> department ignored my message or the scheduler
> denied I did the shops and did not pay me for more
> than 120 days, violating the contract agreement, I
> wrote them and asked them if they preferred that I
> contact their client or the Better Business
> Bureau. I said in a very stern but professional
> manner that I did not appreciate the silent
> treatment and they could remove me from their
> database asap as I was awaiting their long overdue
> payment so I could delete my name from their
> database. However, if I did not receive any word
> in two weeks as to when I would be paid for the
> service I have provided them (It was not a small
> amount.), I was prepared to send all my documents
> to the proper channels. I wrote them that I
> conduct a very legitimate business and have
> documented every aspect of my dealings with them.
> I told them that I expected that both parties
> would honour the binding contract. It took less
> than a week (two weeks from the other) and I
> received an apology as well as a check from both
> companies. By that time I was exhausted.
>
> This is my opinion and practice....It is very
> important to keep records of everything. This is
> afterall a business endeavour. In my previous job
> I was trained to document everything so when I
> started being a shopper, I became more diligent in
> documenting my shops. You will thank yourself
> later on for being organized. It pays to be
> congenial but my policy is as usual, mutual
> respect. I am normally not a fighter but I learned
> that one cannot be altogether docile at all times
> or one becomes open to abuse. There is a time
> when we have to fight for something worth fighting
> for. And time to cut our losses. Knowing the
> difference is something else. Good luck!

As corporations go, their mantra is: Time is Money.
IC/MS should never believe less of the work we do. Our time is money too and the mutually-agreed upon contract obligates the MSC.

Maybe the clients don't even know the MS (perfomring the field work) are not being paid by the MSC -- violating the contract the MSC made with the client. MSC not paying or withholding payment for services rendered by MS as outlined in contracts between all parties is a violation of contract law.

Wonder if MSC that keep MS commissions might still report it as paid...? MS have little recourse if working in a virtual environment with long distant MSC (e.g. no brick and mortar business or HR personnel to visit).

You're opening my eyes WIDE. Thanks.

risinghorizon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jersey07032 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm less concerned about the fees than the lack
> of
> > overall control. And fairness. I recently did
> a
> > shop for Remington that was rejected even though
> I
> > did nothing wrong.. even the scheduler
> originally
> > told me I was ok and I got a 9 on the
> shop.(Until
> > it was changed to a 0) I lost a good 3 hours
> and
> > $35 on that one. I also had a shop rejected by
> StN
> > due to semantics. And, GfK still owes me a $20
> > bonus. In all cases, there is no appeal process.
> I
> > tried emailing the scheduler and owner of
> > Remington and both messages were bounced back
> to
> > me...they have put me on their spam list. I can
> > vent on this Forum, maybe even complain to the
> > Better Business Bureau. But really, what good
> > does that do? I have read many, many, many
> posts
> > from shoppers who have had similar experiences.
> I
> > KNOW some shops are rejected for valid reasons,
> > but even then...we put in the time and effort.
>
>
> Oh, no! This really makes me very angry. I
> cannot stand MS companies who ignore shoppers and
> do not provide any explanation. Remember that the
> contract obligates them too. It is a commitment
> between the company and the shopper. You are
> entitled to a valid explanation as to why they are
> reneging on their obligation to pay you if you
> have fulfilled your part of the terms of the
> agreement and can prove it! Being Independent
> Contractors does not mean the shoppers are the
> only ones obligated by that contract.
>
>
> Twice, it happened to me and the accounting
> department ignored my message or the scheduler
> denied I did the shops and did not pay me for more
> than 120 days, violating the contract agreement, I
> wrote them and asked them if they preferred that I
> contact their client or the Better Business
> Bureau. I said in a very stern but professional
> manner that I did not appreciate the silent
> treatment and they could remove me from their
> database asap as I was awaiting their long overdue
> payment so I could delete my name from their
> database. However, if I did not receive any word
> in two weeks as to when I would be paid for the
> service I have provided them (It was not a small
> amount.), I was prepared to send all my documents
> to the proper channels. I wrote them that I
> conduct a very legitimate business and have
> documented every aspect of my dealings with them.
> I told them that I expected that both parties
> would honour the binding contract. It took less
> than a week (two weeks from the other) and I
> received an apology as well as a check from both
> companies. By that time I was exhausted.
>
> This is my opinion and practice....It is very
> important to keep records of everything. This is
> afterall a business endeavour. In my previous job
> I was trained to document everything so when I
> started being a shopper, I became more diligent in
> documenting my shops. You will thank yourself
> later on for being organized. It pays to be
> congenial but my policy is as usual, mutual
> respect. I am normally not a fighter but I learned
> that one cannot be altogether docile at all times
> or one becomes open to abuse. There is a time
> when we have to fight for something worth fighting
> for. And time to cut our losses. Knowing the
> difference is something else. Good luck!

You're decent pay is now in the CEO's wallet but the CEO doesn't know what goes on during your snapshot... well unless the CEO is an "undercover boss." Ugh.

sammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We used to have some decent paying shops($20+)
> around central Texas, but some people moved in and
> started taking them when they were really low, and
> now they never get up past $10 on a good day.
> Texas is a big state and to go most places, you
> have to drive to get there, so I don't see how
> anybody can make any profit at all taking these
> low paying shops.
> Guess they haven't figured out that if you let
> them set there, they will go up, but they are
> always gone before they have a chance to be
> increased. People, your time is worth more than
> that!!!

>Undercover wrote

> Guess they haven't figured out that if you let
> them set there, they will go up, but they are
> always gone before they have a chance to be
> increased. People, your time is worth more than
> that!!!

Something to think about when writing about those who take cheap shops. I am fortunate enough that I never needed the shops desperately. I worked for my money now my works for me.

There are those who are not so fortunate that live on Mac and cheese and Raman Noodles bought with $2 and $4 shops. They can not wait for the price to go up. Their alternative is to do Dumpster Diving at Mc Donalds and compete with the rats for the discarded leftovers.

How do you respond to the call to disburse Dumpster divers? I looked away after telling them to put the litter back in the dumpsters. It was look away or put them in back of the car and take them to lock up for disturbing the peace. Then I would have to get the Dumpster smell out of the car. Dumpster Diving is not theft, the merchants threw the garbage away.

It is like complaining about "those people" who are taking our jobs. You would not want to be the all night gas station clerk or convenience store clerk. I can be out there at night armed and with back up. You must understand America the Beautiful is not always beautiful. Do something else. You are an independent entrepreneur. You do not have to give charity to companies that pay $2 and $4 a job and make you do 10 jobs to make $20 or $40.

I do the $7-$9 "Fast Casual" shops (or did). It's pretty much the only shop I would do from Marketforce. After the first shop, I knew what to expect and didn't have to prepare. Just skimmed the paperwork, but nothing ever changed (until they made the survey easier). No pics. The food is actually very good, not premade or microwaved, etc. It is cooked to order. I only did it for a free meal, not to make money.

I haven't done any in a month or two though, because I was doing them 3 times a month for months and am burned out on the food.

It is unfortunate that the ms companies can't regard the relationship they have with shoppers as a partnership rather than considering shoppers as adversaries...

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum, but have been doing shops off and on for over 10 years. I used to do work for a company called Service Intelligence (do they still exist?). I now do work pretty much exclusively for Market Force, but am interested in expanding.

I usually will take a job with a low fee once to try it out and see what I think it's worth. I then will wait for bonus, call from scheduler, or email them an offer. It has worked out okay for me so far. It probably depends on where you live (I'm in PA/NJ area).

In the past, they would increase fees on the website toward the end of the month. However, I've noticed for the last 6 months or so they tend to keep the fees low on the site and schedulers call with incentives. Some months I get many calls with great offers, other months I get very few calls.

Anyway, the schedulers at MF have told me that in 2012 they will not be offering the same increased fees that they have offered in the past. Has anyone else been told that? I used to hold out for a $25 fee plus reimbursement for a 2-part fast food shop. Lately it seems I have to settle for a $14-$20 fee max. Does anyone have any other information about what's going on at MF?

That's interesting. I've never bothered approaching them to negotiate because in the past it wasn't all that successful. Just last week they had some jobs bonused at about 3 times the original rate with the note to make an offer. The fee in the end was 4 to 5 times over. These were jobs that I didn't see bonus at all last year. I wonder if saying that to you was a little psychological warfare

I have NEVER seen an MF shop bonused. I guess MF has no reason to...they go quickly at the low rates! I think part of it is likely psychological warfare. But it is also a matter of why bonus (or pay decent rates to begin with) if folks are shopping for bupkahs.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's interesting. I've never bothered
> approaching them to negotiate because in the past
> it wasn't all that successful. Just last week they
> had some jobs bonused at about 3 times the
> original rate with the note to make an offer. The
> fee in the end was 4 to 5 times over. These were
> jobs that I didn't see bonus at all last year. I
> wonder if saying that to you was a little
> psychological warfare

I have received bonuses from MF. I have also made offers to them and have had them accepted. Not often, but it happens.

I too, can't understand why anyone would do any of the CORI shops for $3 or $4. However, even though their system is weird as hell, some of my best paying shops have been with CORI. This month I've done 10 of the age compliance shops for $31.25, $18.23, $15.17, $19.57, $13.36, $15.94, $14.90, $17.58, $23.43, and $37.72. Also this month, I did three home improvement shops for $13.96, $15.76, and $22.45. Admittedly, the home improvement shops are a pain in the rear, but if you like to write, as I do, they can be knocked out fairly quickly. And the age compliance shops can be done while sleeping they are so easy. And I've seen bonuses for those go much higher out of my area.

The downside is, I don't like having to keep checking back and playing the odds on whether someone else is gonna snatch that job up, or should I just snag it now. That part is a little nerve racking, but picking up a $40 job that takes 30 minutes to complete can be worth it.

Unfortunately, also due to the system CORI uses, I won't be looking forward to those bonuses next month, becuase some idiot has snatched up pratically every one of those age compliance shops in my area at $4.00 a pop. So unless that person bails and CORI is forced to re-list the shops, CORI makes out big time next month, while be the idiot and I lose!

Speaking of CORI's big win next month: if they are able to go that high on a 30 minute shop, and still presumably make a profit, ya gotta wonder just how much they are getting for those shops. Hmmmm......

Need to ask what are the age-compliance shops?
Thanks.


shawnthewoman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I too, can't understand why anyone would do any of
> the CORI shops for $3 or $4. However, even though
> their system is weird as hell, some of my best
> paying shops have been with CORI. This month I've
> done 10 of the age compliance shops for $31.25,
> $18.23, $15.17, $19.57, $13.36, $15.94, $14.90,
> $17.58, $23.43, and $37.72. Also this month, I
> did three home improvement shops for $13.96,
> $15.76, and $22.45. Admittedly, the home
> improvement shops are a pain in the rear, but if
> you like to write, as I do, they can be knocked
> out fairly quickly. And the age compliance shops
> can be done while sleeping they are so easy. And
> I've seen bonuses for those go much higher out of
> my area.
>
> The downside is, I don't like having to keep
> checking back and playing the odds on whether
> someone else is gonna snatch that job up, or
> should I just snag it now. That part is a little
> nerve racking, but picking up a $40 job that takes
> 30 minutes to complete can be worth it.
>
> Unfortunately, also due to the system CORI uses, I
> won't be looking forward to those bonuses next
> month, becuase some idiot has snatched up
> pratically every one of those age compliance shops
> in my area at $4.00 a pop. So unless that person
> bails and CORI is forced to re-list the shops,
> CORI makes out big time next month, while be the
> idiot and I lose!
>
> Speaking of CORI's big win next month: if they
> are able to go that high on a 30 minute shop, and
> still presumably make a profit, ya gotta wonder
> just how much they are getting for those shops.
> Hmmmm......

Are you sure all the jobs were taken? Sometimes they will show as backup only because of rotation. A good way to check is to look at the start date. If all or most still have the same start date it is most likely rotation locking you out for some reason.

Good point, that never even crossed my mind...duh. I hope that is what it is, I mean so sad for me that I still won't get a shot at em, but at least someone else would!

UnderCover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Need to ask what are the age-compliance shops?
> Thanks.
>
An age-compliance shop is one where they are wanting to make sure the employee ensures the customer is an appropriate age for their purchase, i.e. liquor, cigarettes, lottery tickets, casinos, etc.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you sure all the jobs were taken? Sometimes
> they will show as backup only because of rotation.
> A good way to check is to look at the start date.
> If all or most still have the same start date it
> is most likely rotation locking you out for some
> reason.


Ah!That makes more sense! Do you know if rotation is every other month? Or would it be diferrent for every client?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2012 05:24AM by minuet00.

It's client specific. BTW, rotation pertains to two different things. If the "rotation" before the same shopper can visit is 30 days and you perform a shop on February 20 that location may show as backup only for you until March 21. There can also be a client mandated rotation between any visits. It seems like it is usually 7 days, but can be longer. If another shopper was there on February 28 the store would not be able to be shopped again by anyone until March 6. In that case even though the new shops have been posted with a start date of March 1, the location could still be marked as backup.

Oh yes, I knew that... guess I skipped a beat... duh...
Thank you.

Bena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UnderCover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Need to ask what are the age-compliance shops?
> > Thanks.
> >
> An age-compliance shop is one where they are
> wanting to make sure the employee ensures the
> customer is an appropriate age for their purchase,
> i.e. liquor, cigarettes, lottery tickets, casinos,
> etc.

Every shopper's circumstances are different and each has their own reasons for what they do. My partner also shops and he dearly loves a "free" meal and getting paid to eat it. I'm all for it. It is a meal I don't have to cook AND it is one meal that doesn't come out of my grocery budget. Most of those $7/$11 and $5/$5.65 are very close to home, so gas is not an issue. Personally, I don't do those shops unless I can include them in a route. I never, ever do those silly appliance shops that pay $7. I will do service evaluations for as low as $13 if no reimbursement is required. My exception is the home improvement shops. I look at those as $13 off something I need .. I always need something as my house is 120 years old!

I have a friend who swears that ms companies turn in reports that they have disqualified for payment to us.

What is fascinating to me is is how non-transparent this industry is. Seems every time you ask a question of a ms company, they all but pat you on the head and tell you not to worry about those little details... never a straight answer.

I think that it is telling the the MSPA, the industry association, is only open for membership to ms companies.



UnderCover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As corporations go, their mantra is: Time is
> Money.
> IC/MS should never believe less of the work we do.
> Our time is money too and the mutually-agreed upon
> contract obligates the MSC.
>
> Maybe the clients don't even know the MS
> (perfomring the field work) are not being paid by
> the MSC -- violating the contract the MSC made
> with the client. MSC not paying or withholding
> payment for services rendered by MS as outlined in
> contracts between all parties is a violation of
> contract law.
>
> Wonder if MSC that keep MS commissions might still
> report it as paid...? MS have little recourse if
> working in a virtual environment with long distant
> MSC (e.g. no brick and mortar business or HR
> personnel to visit).
>
> You're opening my eyes WIDE. Thanks.
>

I just ranted and posted a reply to the subject about Geo Verify.

IMHO, we mystery shoppers need to band together and use the IMSC to COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN. The MSPs need to up the ante. The compensation they offer for too many shops is simply NOT worth my time. Who's with me?

MrsFrank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just ranted and posted a reply to the subject
> about Geo Verify.
>
> IMHO, we mystery shoppers need to band together
> and use the IMSC to COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN. The MSPs
> need to up the ante. The compensation they offer
> for too many shops is simply NOT worth my time.
> Who's with me?

I would be against any form of collective bargaining for mystery shops. I wouldn't mind being part of a casual coalition that decided not to take any shop offering less than $X for a shop fee.

The problem with collective bargaining is that we are not a collective group of employees having the same goals, desires and needs. What might be a great shop for me might be an unacceptable one for someone else. With collective bargaining, I might become unable to accept a shop I want; another person might be forced into a shop they don't want.

As an independent contractor, I would lose my independence. I would be compelled to operate as part of a collective. This is too much like having a 'regular' job with a boss, and does not interest me.

I mentioned this somewhere. For every shopper on a forum there are probably at least 10 who are not. Add to that the constant influx on new shoppers who may work for anywhere from several weeks to several months before moving on. Those are often the people who end up taking truly low-paying jobs just for some extra gas money and a free soda. They are not going to take the time to even find the forums, let along participate.

As nice as it would be to cause companies to pay more, to me it's way more important that we prevent them from taking advantage by insisting on an EIN or the use of some type of tracking.

Perhaps shoppers should do what domestic workers did, that is, form an organization. For domestic workers there is Domestic Workers United working to get fair pay for honest work (http://www.domesticworkersunited.org/).
See the article, "Rich family allegedly paid maid 85 cents an hour" (http://now.msn.com/now/0302-maid-forced-work.aspx).

I understand that MS are independent contractors not employees with more freedom to choose or not choose work than the alleged .85-cents-per-hour domestic employee. MS do the field work for the corporations that turn profits (read: rich companies). MS perform a valuable service with integrity and are not paid a livable commission even if working part-time.

This is an issue of fair rate and the rate should be negotiable if true IC status exists.

Interesting you said that about membership. I thought the same thing. Are MS permitted to become members?
Have any fellow MS attended any Association conferences?

Example:
13th ANNUAL CONFERENCE
October 18-20, 2011 ~ InterContinental Hotel
Atlanta, Georgia

[mysteryshop.org]

"One of the principal reasons for MSPA's formation in 1997 was the need for advocacy for the industry. Legislative and regulatory attacks literally put the mystery shopping industry at risk of disappearing. For that reason, it is appropriate that we join together to ADVOCATE for the industry".

Curious...


qpone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a friend who swears that ms companies turn
> in reports that they have disqualified for payment
> to us.
>
> What is fascinating to me is is how
> non-transparent this industry is. Seems every time
> you ask a question of a ms company, they all but
> pat you on the head and tell you not to worry
> about those little details... never a straight
> answer.
>
> I think that it is telling the the MSPA, the
> industry association, is only open for membership
> to ms companies.
>
>
>
> UnderCover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As corporations go, their mantra is: Time is
> > Money.
> > IC/MS should never believe less of the work we
> do.
> > Our time is money too and the mutually-agreed
> upon
> > contract obligates the MSC.
> >
> > Maybe the clients don't even know the MS
> > (perfomring the field work) are not being paid
> by
> > the MSC -- violating the contract the MSC made
> > with the client. MSC not paying or withholding
> > payment for services rendered by MS as outlined
> in
> > contracts between all parties is a violation of
> > contract law.
> >
> > Wonder if MSC that keep MS commissions might
> still
> > report it as paid...? MS have little recourse
> if
> > working in a virtual environment with long
> distant
> > MSC (e.g. no brick and mortar business or HR
> > personnel to visit).
> >
> > You're opening my eyes WIDE. Thanks.
> >

Membership is only open to companies. If memory serves, there was a time when shoppers could attend their conferences on a limited basis. I think it was when MSPA chose to stop inviting shoppers three years ago that the IMSC was born.