Even within existing organizations, it's not that organized.

Organizing is something that has been talked about ad nauseam in the past. There does not seem to be any financial benefit in organizing (it would cost more than it would help the average shopper), hence the lack of will in making it happen.

If you think about the fact that as a shopper, you are completely replaceable, and the bad attitude from MSCs toward shoppers is here because a large amount of their work force is close to being incompetent, the concept of creating an organization for said people seems rather bleak.

This is not an insult to the forum members. Those who post here, for the most part, are the elite that take their work seriously and strive for professionalism. We represent a small portion of the MSing community, however. Having been an editor and scheduler, I can tell you with assurance that the majority of shoppers applying for assignments cannot compose a paragraph at what I would consider to be an acceptable level for a high school graduate.

"I can tell you with assurance that the majority of shoppers applying for assignments cannot compose a paragraph at what I would consider to be an acceptable level for a high school graduate."

That I agree with you. Also, you are too generous. Isn't it a fact that bulk of the high school graduate can't read and write above 6th or 7th grade level?

anakin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I can tell you with assurance that the majority
> of shoppers applying for assignments cannot
> compose a paragraph at what I would consider to be
> an acceptable level for a high school graduate."
>
> That I agree with you. Also, you are too generous.
> Isn't it a fact that bulk of the high school
> graduate can't read and write above 6th or 7th
> grade level?


LOL

Well....that's why I made conditional on what I consider appropriate for a high school graduate. It was actually a pretty eye-opening experience for me to start working as an editor and see the quality of reports submitted.

I don't know........isn't commiserating very similar to supporting ? We share valuable information to use when confronting a MSC, just read the Chem-Dry posts. We have effected change, just look at the payroll system for Informars - perfect no but much improved. In my opinion we are "unofficially" organized, we respond to each other but sadly suffer the same isolation that all ICs do.I'm never surprised how well attended focus groups are!

I agree with you, Jersey 07032, things need to change. The "thing" is primarily the need for excellence. The lack of excellence on both sides, employer/employee, is an epidemic. It takes too much time to be excellent, time is money, excellence cuts into profit on both sides.

We all begrudge time consuming narratives yet take the time to communicate, frequently at length, with our fellow Independent Contractors. It would be nice to know that a watch dog was always on guard and would bark/bite the offender, but then I wouldn't be so independent, would I?
jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Actually, I never mentioned unions. What I said
> was PSS it would be quite the challenge to
> organize, per se. But where there's a will,
> there's a way". I was talking about ORGANIZiNG
> not UNIONIZING.That was another poster and I think
> he/she was making an comparison, not suggesting we
> join the Temsters.
>
> I don't agree that we are organized. we have no
> way (except by commisserating with each other) to
> give support when an MSC crosses the line. We are
> basically on our own.
>
> But I don't see why it has to be this way. I don't
> know how to change the situation, even a little.
> Still, I think things NEED to change. Just my
> opinion

I am sure many MSCs or their reps do read these boards. If a shopper complaint is legit, some of them may try to change. However, if we write in codes about a shop or MSC (perhaps not in the same thread) they have no way to decipher/process the information, and even if they want to change they don't know who we are talking about. For example, write some thing about ACE or Sentry and some one from ACE or Dave himself will post defending/justifying their practices/actions.

As jersey had noted before, a single lone post may not mean much. However, a pattern may emerge after several similar posts about a shop or MSC that may be useful to all. We all do work for peanuts, but it may help us not work for free.

Bad management ruins good workers (ICs, employees)...

Is not the IMSC an "organized" lot to support MSs?

SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even within existing organizations, it's not that
> organized.
>
> Organizing is something that has been talked about
> ad nauseam in the past. There does not seem to be
> any financial benefit in organizing (it would cost
> more than it would help the average shopper),
> hence the lack of will in making it happen.
>
> If you think about the fact that as a shopper, you
> are completely replaceable, and the bad attitude
> from MSCs toward shoppers is here because a large
> amount of their work force is close to being
> incompetent, the concept of creating an
> organization for said people seems rather bleak.
>
> This is not an insult to the forum members. Those
> who post here, for the most part, are the elite
> that take their work seriously and strive for
> professionalism. We represent a small portion of
> the MSing community, however. Having been an
> editor and scheduler, I can tell you with
> assurance that the majority of shoppers applying
> for assignments cannot compose a paragraph at what
> I would consider to be an acceptable level for a
> high school graduate.

UnderCover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is not the IMSC an "organized" lot to support
> MSs?
>

It absolutely is, but that was my point. From what I have seen, the group is basically relegated to emotional support, comraderie and entry level training, which is something that many get from simply being a part of these online communities.

I have not seen any organization that could wield power to truly effect a change in how shoppers are treated or remunerated. If a shoppers pays the money to attend a conference and gets unfairly denied reimbursement on a properly performed shop the following week, is their any assistance offered?

I'm new to MS so I misunderstood about the IMSC.
I agree that a MS group-effort is needed to give IMSC or another organization "teeth" and a substantial voice to the MS community.
MSs provide a valuable service and need to be paid accordingly. If millions are paid for marketing and advertising, similarly as market researchers, MSs need to be paid more (especially with the rise in fuel alone).
I'm on board to see serious organization mobilized in favor of the valuable service that MSs provide to companies and consumers alike.

SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UnderCover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is not the IMSC an "organized" lot to support
> > MSs?
> >
>
> It absolutely is, but that was my point. From
> what I have seen, the group is basically relegated
> to emotional support, comraderie and entry level
> training, which is something that many get from
> simply being a part of these online communities.
>
> I have not seen any organization that could wield
> power to truly effect a change in how shoppers are
> treated or remunerated. If a shoppers pays the
> money to attend a conference and gets unfairly
> denied reimbursement on a properly performed shop
> the following week, is their any assistance
> offered?

I think that is why so many companies are jumping on the IC-status boat... reduces/eliminates ones' liability to the worker... while cutting corners and saving money for the MSC. MSC bottom line versus MSs bottom line.
Appreciate seasoned MSs insight on topics.

SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UnderCover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is not the IMSC an "organized" lot to support
> > MSs?
> >
>
> It absolutely is, but that was my point. From
> what I have seen, the group is basically relegated
> to emotional support, comraderie and entry level
> training, which is something that many get from
> simply being a part of these online communities.
>
> I have not seen any organization that could wield
> power to truly effect a change in how shoppers are
> treated or remunerated. If a shoppers pays the
> money to attend a conference and gets unfairly
> denied reimbursement on a properly performed shop
> the following week, is their any assistance
> offered?

Steve Not sure I understand the question? What conference? Shoppers being fairly reimbursed should not be contingent on a conference (IF that is what you are saying. Don't want to put words in your mouth, just trying to clarify). But, regardless, the whole issue is SOMEHOW ensuring we are paid fairly for work done properly. I have read too many posts of shops being rejected for dubious reasons. I have read too many posts of shops being switched in mid-stream, leaving the shopper holding the proverbial bag (SOL). And I have read too many posts of shoppers not getting bonuses.

When I started shopping, I was afraid I would make a silly mistake and not get paid as result. NOW I am afraid I will do everything right and still not get paid. It has happened to me with StN and Remington. I finally got paid in full by GfK but I had to argue with them for months to get my own money. It actually cost me money to get the proper payment. Stuff like that is just WRONG. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

I have had a couple of serious shopping problems in the past and they were not about rejected shops or non-payment of services. The client actually asked that I be removed from the database because of my report.

On one such case, though I presented a partly negative report, the associate involved added some embellishments, stating that she acted that way because she suspected us as thieves who did not speak English. It was my first year at ms and there was no forum like this. Since she specifically accused the MSC of not hiring qualified shoppers, I was given an opportunity to mention my qualifications as a shopper. I told them that we may be visible minorities, we are actually earning our living as professionals and English is our main language. However, we consider mystery shopping as a very serious and legitimate job and Toronto is a multicultural society It has customers whose first language is not English but that does not make them thieves. And what would retail do with customers who do not speak English?

They told me that even the CEO was backing me up and persuaded me to continue working for them. From then on, I used my records with the companies as my deposition. They either value my service or not. So, yes, as in any job, I ask myself. Do I want this? Do they deserve the commitment and hard work I am exerting. If the answer is no, I drop the company. It is never going to be, I will continue to please them, no matter what, even if respect is one sided. That attitude change saved me a lot of stress.

I have not attended any IMSC gatherings. This forum is the only support I have seen or have been interested in. I do not intend to travel to the US to validate my mystery shopping credentials. But I will support any organization of some sort to give more clout to IC as briefly, on my first year, I felt I allowed myself to be held hostage by some MSCs as an IC, with all the pitfalls and no benefit, because I wanted to belong. No more!

Look at how the part timers improved their lot. We can do it!

rising

I am reading your post and trying not to control my breathing lest I have an aneurism or something. did the associate actually justify whatever she did or did not do by claiming you did not speak English. (And it seems, in her world, not speaking English equates with theiving) Before I go on a rant, do I have that right?

jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rising
>
> I am reading your post and trying not to control
> my breathing lest I have an aneurism or something.
> did the associate actually justify whatever she
> did or did not do by claiming you did not speak
> English. (And it seems, in her world, not speaking
> English equates with theiving) Before I go on a
> rant, do I have that right?

Geesh! I don't know if you are being offensive or what.

Ok, here is the scenario. When I asked my scheduler what happened, she said the associate who happened to be the assistant manager wrote a very long letter suggesting that I and my companion were speaking in our language and she suspected us to be thieves. That was the reason she was not assisting us. She said if the company was going to subject her to audit, at least they should get someone who could speak English and was qualified to do the audits.
I asked for a copy of her letter so I could respond point by point.

First of all, English is the only language spoken in my house unless I go to a gathering where my language is spoken. I understand French and can communicate in it but I am not too conversant with it but my children speak both languages.

Her letter said, I and my companions were speaking in our language and she could not understand us. The truth was the only language we could have communicated in was English as he did not know my native language and vice versa. We have lived in North America longer than in our native countries and were educated here. We were in business attires as we just came from our respective offices. Granted, we are visible minorities but we earn our living through our ability to speak, write and read English well. lol. Needless to say, her letter was full of embellishments and was very offensive in its racial bias.

During our visit at the store, I observed her attitude with other customers and I noted them down on my report. She was very dismissive and condescending. She said to one male customer, "They are all there. Look for it yourself." However, my report was mostly positive, except in her customer service acumen. I tend to be tolerant when submitting my reports.

Anyway, the MSC had my extensive profile and my records and sided with me. From that time on, I developed a very strong symbiotic relationship with them. But having lived in the States and Canada most of my life, I know for a fact that if anyone wants to belittle me, they almost always mention that English is my second language.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2012 04:42PM by risinghorizon.

To rising:
Sounds like the retail sales associate indulged in racist behavior and the MSC by taking the client's, therefore the sales associate's side could be construed to also be guilty of supporting a racist. I'm glad that the MSC came to their senses and rather than hope that you'd go away found their spine instead, good for you. Tu est brave mon ami! Sadly 75% of people are cowards.

PS Does being an IC permit us to be the subjected to racism?

Amazing that the client did not just fire that horrid person on the spot. I guess even racist [employees] have rights. As for shoppers--English speaking or not--this just shows how few rights WE have. If a MSC can even CONSIDER rejecting a shop for such a blatantly bigotted reason... What's next. "Sorry, we can't use your report. Because you are Jewish. Or African American. Or Hindu. Or wore a nose ring. Or had a tattoo. Or a birkah."


I am glad it worked out for rising. But no one should have to go through that.

jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Not sure I understand the question? What
> conference? Shoppers being fairly reimbursed
> should not be contingent on a conference (IF that
> is what you are saying. Don't want to put words in
> your mouth, just trying to clarify). But,
> regardless, the whole issue is SOMEHOW ensuring we
> are paid fairly for work done properly. I have
> read too many posts of shops being rejected for
> dubious reasons. I have read too many posts of
> shops being switched in mid-stream, leaving the
> shopper holding the proverbial bag (SOL). And I
> have read too many posts of shoppers not getting
> bonuses.
>
> When I started shopping, I was afraid I would make
> a silly mistake and not get paid as result. NOW I
> am afraid I will do everything right and still not
> get paid. It has happened to me with StN and
> Remington. I finally got paid in full by GfK but
> I had to argue with them for months to get my own
> money. It actually cost me money to get the
> proper payment. Stuff like that is just WRONG.
> Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

My point was simply that when discussions about shopper support groups have been brought up in the past, it has always deemed too expensive to be supported by shoppers. However, many shoppers seem happy to spend $100+ for a mystery shopping conference and travel expenses on top of that, with no actual membership or future shopper support offered, and it boggles my mind somewhat.

I'm not saying that attending the a conference should entitle one to fair reimbursement. I would just love to see an organization that actually created a membership and shopper voice, and supported shoppers in regards to abuse of the IC status, wrongful denial of shops and lack of payment.

It's not a guarantee, but wouldn't it be nice to have a company that's a known abuser get thousands of letters from their shopper base, refusing to shop for them until the issues were rectified?

jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amazing that the client did not just fire that
> horrid person on the spot. I guess even racist
> have rights. As for shoppers--English speaking or
> not--this just shows how few rights WE have. If a
> MSC can even CONSIDER rejecting a shop for such a
> blatantly bigotted reason... What's next.
> "Sorry, we can't use your report. Because you are
> Jewish. Or African American. Or Hindu. Or wore a
> nose ring. Or had a tattoo. Or a birkah."
>
>
> I am glad it worked out for rising. But no one
> should have to go through that.


Thank you. But because of that shop, I learned to fight the right battles and though I have been asked to audit that store again, I declined. The client is a popular retailer here and I heard the assistant manager is no longer there. The messages I received from the MSC were very encouraging and actually beautiful. They were the ones who used the term "embellishments." But, companies are very, very careful with any legal connotations and they obviously stayed far away from it. Understandable...

Often newbies start out with 'cheapo' shops veiwing it as paid training. That's what I did 8 years ago and filling out my first reports and 'learning the ropes' took about 2 months. After that I thought to make any money at all I won't leave the house for less than $10. A purchase/return $15. to $20. Some restaurant shops are worth the skimpy fee if you like the restaurant but some of the fast casuals are just insulting, in some cases the food is pretty gross so a free burger or whatever is just not worth it. Do I really need to get fatter on 'free' food that I don't even like!

When I started out last July, I was randomly picking jobs. I had decided never to do FF, or gas stations - the pay was very low (I didn't know about bonuses then). The cheapest I have done were few Party City, One Automotive for Best Mark and one 'One Hr' MLM presentation, couple of retail shops with purchase return. I quickly discovered that those were not for me. Pages after pages of narratives on kids still in high school were just too much. The kids had not gotten the memo on the questions.

The Party City shop was the ultimate in torture. I wrote, the bathroom stank - it had odor. The reviewer asked,"What kind of odor?"

anakin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I started out last July, I was randomly
> picking jobs. I had decided never to do FF, or
> gas stations - the pay was very low (I didn't know
> about bonuses then). The cheapest I have done
> were few Party City, One Automotive for Best Mark
> and one 'One Hr' MLM presentation, couple of
> retail shops with purchase return. I quickly
> discovered that those were not for me. Pages after
> pages of narratives on kids still in high school
> were just too much. The kids had not gotten the
> memo on the questions.
>
> The Party City shop was the ultimate in torture.
> I wrote, the bathroom stank - it had odor. The
> reviewer asked,"What kind of odor?"

How graphically did you describe the odor to the reviewer?

anakin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> The Party City shop was the ultimate in torture.
> I wrote, the bathroom stank - it had odor. The
> reviewer asked,"What kind of odor?"

LOL. I remember reporting on partly uncooked French Fries and I was asked, "How was it uncooked?" I told her that the fries were so soggy as if they were just defrosted. They were very cold too. After that, I never accepted that shop nomatter what kind of bonus they offered.

I had to take a photo of non-ADA compliance... unless I was going to put a tape measure down, and have it not noticed by the employees... it was impossible to do.

This is an interesting thread.

[www.mysteryshopforum.com]

Having just spent a couple of hours reading all of it...some lightbulbs went off -or is it on?

First of all,all the authors here are literate, very good writers, good grammar and punctuation which obviously makes you valuable to the MSC's. But some seem to have developed a victim mentality such as: "The MSC's have all the power". Really?

Second - those $3 and 4 and $5 shops....it suddenly occurred to me whose taking them: college students and seniors on very low social security; TO EAT.
Remember the stories about Seniors eating dog food because it was all they could afford... certainly accepting a a $4 or $5 job and a free meal is better than dog food....so maybe we shouldn't begrudge those who are taking those jobs.

And then - LIGHTBULB - that's why some of the MSC's are trying to get shoppers to sign up with EIN's - as if we have our own companies, a subcontractor - then they think the govt. can't say "you are paying this shopper/ quasi Independent Contractor less than what would be minimum wage for the hours you are requiring for that work" because if it's your own company,and it's up to your company to make a profit or not; it becomes profit and loss but not a matter of not paying even minimum wage. An Independent Contractor is usually paid a set amount for the day or days a job takes: such as $75 or $80 a day or more to complete a task. The mileage may be included or additional pay.

And something tells me - another lightbulb - that that Forbes article didn't do the MSC's any good - it showed a spotlight on MSC's and must have caught the attention of the IRS or other governmental agencies who were trying to figure out how MF was grossing $53 million...and discovered they were using "Independent Contractors" who they were paying $2 , $5, - or not paying at all. That and there may have been complaints to some govt agency by some "shoppers".

Put it all together and it put a spotlight on Mystery Shopping Companies, their profits and their quasi "Independent Contractor" contracts...

And the MSPA and Jobslinger and some other companies have the nerve to post big notices to Shoppers to "help stop the government from taking away your Independent Contractor status which will negatively affect the industry" !!!!

What it will negatively affect is the MSC's bottom line - dollars. If Shoppers are not classified as Independent Contractors the MSC's will have to pay Social Security, FICA, other taxes, horror of horrors maybe even some benefits. The MSC's are making millions because they are underpaying shoppers and getting away with having to pay no taxes for employees, benefits, etc.

As someone indicated, when you're offering $2 and $4 and $5 it's akin to slave labor..

My personal impression is that the govt. or some govt consumer organization may be tryng to scare them into paying decent amounts for the work of the Independent Contractor Shoppers - or on the other hand the govt. needs the money for Social Security and other taxes the employer would have to pay if the govt. can prove we are not Independent Contractors. And actually I think they can. An Independent Contractor is told go speak to so and so but is not told in detail, you must do this,this and this at this specific time; ask everything on this form, go there at this specific time and have the report in at this specific time. they are also not instructed what to write or how to write on chat forums.

I haven't been a 9 to 5'er in many years and would not like to go back to that - on the other hand I wouldn't take those $3 , 4, 5, $7 jobs either..and only the $10 if it was down the same street I'm on.

If you organize as a group - union like - and demand a certain pay, I dont think you will be IC's anymore.

But Shoppers ARE organized. This Forum is an organization. I think I read somewhere there are about 1200 to 1500 people registered here. That doesn't say how many dont register but come and read. The MSC's present us with contracts, which apparently many of them don't live up to.

Perhaps we, EVERY mystery shopper, should individually present each company with (the same) a Mystery Shopper contract with clauses which states: "if payment for services rendered is not received for my shopper investigation and report within (14) or (30) days, I agree to pay Mr./Ms./Mrs. ____ penalty of $____ and legal fees.

I was astounded when I read one person was told "you'll get paid when we get paid"! That is what I suspected. But that's not how business works in any other
world. If you dont pay your water or electric bill, you cant say to the company,
"You'll get paid when I get paid" They turn off the spigot and the electric.

By the way, it's crazy that they can refuse a report and refuse to pay. You put the time in,you report what you saw, they pay, whether they dont like that you told the truth whether it be negative or positive for their client. Period. They want additional information, an Independent Contractor WOULD CHARGE for additional work to supply additional information.

I suspect that would get their attention.
Maybe someone should bring these alternative contracts up to this President of the MSPA at that conference.

You want the forum to grow larger? You want to have a semi-organization? Ask
Jacob to make sure The Mystery Forum appears at the top of any Google search for Mystery Shoppers, mystery shops, secret shoppers,etc., shoppers needed,etc. There are ways to do it.

Go to other forums yourself and brag about the wonderful informative forum you found where shoppers themselves talk about which Mystery companies are good, which pay and which dont pay, which are worth it and which aren't and print the URL to here: [www.mysteryshopforum.com]

The internet is the greatest invention for organizing there ever has been.

You'll excuse the suggestions but I tend toward action and problem solving.

Just sayin'.

Bingo!
ICs normally would have their own contracts that they present to a prospective client. If a MSC presents the contract, work instructions, when/where/how the work is to be done, that is similar to EE (employee) which would be subject to Federal minimum hourly wage law.

What's more, specific "tools" are required to do many of the jobs or MSs won't be offered the work.

I know a number of people with EE status that work with minimal to no supervision or work in remote/rural locations -- that does not make them ICs. Consider a "one person" office EE where the boss is rarely present, or a "road warrior" where the EE office is his/her vehicle, often there's not a lot of daily supervisory oversight, but the person is still an EE.

MSs charging MSCs for additional time for services rendered is a very good idea, including travel (mileage) for longer distances. I would suspect MSCs would shorten the report and/or lessen the requirements of the shop if they had to pay additional costs for ALL services rendered.

Knowing the profit margins that these MSCs make, it seems shameful what they pay to MSs, and I assume most MSs are on a fixed budget of some sort.

Seems MSCs are walking a fine line.
Insightful scoop shoppinalong.

shoppinalong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is an interesting thread.
>
> [www.mysteryshopforum.com]
> =7
>
> Having just spent a couple of hours reading all of
> it...some lightbulbs went off -or is it on?
>
> First of all,all the authors here are literate,
> very good writers, good grammar and punctuation
> which obviously makes you valuable to the MSC's.
> But some seem to have developed a victim mentality
> such as: "The MSC's have all the power". Really?
>
> Second - those $3 and 4 and $5 shops....it
> suddenly occurred to me whose taking them: college
> students and seniors on very low social security;
> TO EAT.
> Remember the stories about Seniors eating dog food
> because it was all they could afford... certainly
> accepting a a $4 or $5 job and a free meal is
> better than dog food....so maybe we shouldn't
> begrudge those who are taking those jobs.
>
> And then - LIGHTBULB - that's why some of the
> MSC's are trying to get shoppers to sign up with
> EIN's - as if we have our own companies, a
> subcontractor - then they think the govt. can't
> say "you are paying this shopper/ quasi
> Independent Contractor less than what would be
> minimum wage for the hours you are requiring for
> that work" because if it's your own company,and
> it's up to your company to make a profit or not;
> it becomes profit and loss but not a matter of not
> paying even minimum wage. An Independent
> Contractor is usually paid a set amount for the
> day or days a job takes: such as $75 or $80 a day
> or more to complete a task. The mileage may be
> included or additional pay.
>
> And something tells me - another lightbulb - that
> that Forbes article didn't do the MSC's any good -
> it showed a spotlight on MSC's and must have
> caught the attention of the IRS or other
> governmental agencies who were trying to figure
> out how MF was grossing $53 million...and
> discovered they were using "Independent
> Contractors" who they were paying $2 , $5, - or
> not paying at all. That and there may have been
> complaints to some govt agency by some "shoppers".
>
>
> Put it all together and it put a spotlight on
> Mystery Shopping Companies, their profits and
> their quasi "Independent Contractor" contracts...
>
> And the MSPA and Jobslinger and some other
> companies have the nerve to post big notices to
> Shoppers to "help stop the government from taking
> away your Independent Contractor status which will
> negatively affect the industry" !!!!
>
> What it will negatively affect is the MSC's bottom
> line - dollars. If Shoppers are not classified as
> Independent Contractors the MSC's will have to pay
> Social Security, FICA, other taxes, horror of
> horrors maybe even some benefits. The MSC's are
> making millions because they are underpaying
> shoppers and getting away with having to pay no
> taxes for employees, benefits, etc.
>
> As someone indicated, when you're offering $2 and
> $4 and $5 it's akin to slave labor..
>
> My personal impression is that the govt. or some
> govt consumer organization may be tryng to scare
> them into paying decent amounts for the work of
> the Independent Contractor Shoppers - or on the
> other hand the govt. needs the money for Social
> Security and other taxes the employer would have
> to pay if the govt. can prove we are not
> Independent Contractors. And actually I think
> they can. An Independent Contractor is told go
> speak to so and so but is not told in detail, you
> must do this,this and this at this specific time;
> ask everything on this form, go there at this
> specific time and have the report in at this
> specific time. they are also not instructed what
> to write or how to write on chat forums.
>
> I haven't been a 9 to 5'er in many years and would
> not like to go back to that - on the other hand I
> wouldn't take those $3 , 4, 5, $7 jobs
> either..and only the $10 if it was down the same
> street I'm on.
>
> If you organize as a group - union like - and
> demand a certain pay, I dont think you will be
> IC's anymore.
>
> But Shoppers ARE organized. This Forum is an
> organization. I think I read somewhere there are
> about 1200 to 1500 people registered here. That
> doesn't say how many dont register but come and
> read. The MSC's present us with contracts, which
> apparently many of them don't live up to.
>
> Perhaps we, EVERY mystery shopper, should
> individually present each company with (the same)
> a Mystery Shopper contract with clauses which
> states: "if payment for services rendered is not
> received for my shopper investigation and report
> within (14) or (30) days, I agree to pay
> Mr./Ms./Mrs. ____ penalty of $____ and legal
> fees.
>
> I was astounded when I read one person was told
> "you'll get paid when we get paid"! That is what
> I suspected. But that's not how business works in
> any other
> world. If you dont pay your water or electric
> bill, you cant say to the company,
> "You'll get paid when I get paid" They turn off
> the spigot and the electric.
>
> By the way, it's crazy that they can refuse a
> report and refuse to pay. You put the time in,you
> report what you saw, they pay, whether they dont
> like that you told the truth whether it be
> negative or positive for their client. Period.
> They want additional information, an Independent
> Contractor WOULD CHARGE for additional work to
> supply additional information.
>
> I suspect that would get their attention.
> Maybe someone should bring these alternative
> contracts up to this President of the MSPA at that
> conference.
>
> You want the forum to grow larger? You want to
> have a semi-organization? Ask
> Jacob to make sure The Mystery Forum appears at
> the top of any Google search for Mystery Shoppers,
> mystery shops, secret shoppers,etc., shoppers
> needed,etc. There are ways to do it.
>
> Go to other forums yourself and brag about the
> wonderful informative forum you found where
> shoppers themselves talk about which Mystery
> companies are good, which pay and which dont pay,
> which are worth it and which aren't and print the
> URL to here:
> [www.mysteryshopforum.com]
> =7
>
> The internet is the greatest invention for
> organizing there ever has been.
>
> You'll excuse the suggestions but I tend toward
> action and problem solving.
>
> Just sayin'.

my only "complaint" re: undercover's and shopinalong's posts is that I was not anywhere near as articulate. THANK YOU BOTH.

I saw my CPA last week to do my taxes and we discussed this whole IC issue again. Nothing new...she looked up the tax laws when I first told her what I was doing, a couple of years ago. She told me then, BASED ON THE TAX LAWS, I was not REALLY an IC. She did more "research" to make sure I had no liability/exposure should the IRS ever decide to look into the whole IC/Employee issue specifically as it pertains to MSCs. She told me then, the IRS was cracking down on employers/companies that mislable employees as ICs to get around paying FICA, Workmen's Comp, etc. This time she told me it was not a matter of IF the IRS looked into this, but WHEN. I have also talked to a friend who is a professor of accounting (not tax law) at a university. She told me if she ever gave her students a hypothetical scenario describing the conditions I tell her about and her students said we were ICs, she would flunk them! So, we the MSCs can call us ducks if they like. We can agree we are ducks, if we like. Unless we grow feathers and webbed feet, we are NOT ducks.

How would you define a cheap shop? Is it money alone that determines a cheap shop, or do distance and report time play into it? What makes it cheap to you? If the shop is too cheap for you, can you walk away and not be concerned if someone else does it? Do you ever do a cheap shop? Why?

I am taking a new approach to shopping. I am no longer acting from a place of fear.

I did a shop yesterday. Against my better judgement. It was for Shell station. I know gasoline stations can take more than an hour on site, if there is a lot wrong (or for any number of reasons). I had never done a Shell before, which I knew would add to my time. I was assured by the MSC that this was an easy shop and folks grabbed them up. In the back of my mind I was wondering why there were so many available but.... Anyway. I did the shop. Took me 1.5 hours on site and another hour to crop/upload photos and debrief. Some of the time was due to glitches on the MSCs system. After 2.5 hours, I figured I am still making minimum wage, but barely. I hit a snag (technical glitch) submitting the shop and sent the MSC a note. I still have not heard from them and sent another note. IF they ask for clarification, I am going to tell them I need more money. Of course, I will not get it and I will not be paid for the shop. But I am not willing to work for slave wages.

I also have a shop for a company that wants me to do a reveal shop at a jewelry store. I have to give the Sales Rep a $50 American Express card. I just received the card today and cannot do the shop until the card is activated--by the scheduler. She sent a letter with the card saying I was 100 % responsible for the card and it must be returned to the company if the SR does not win it. I emailed the scheduler saying I would only do the shop if they sent me a stamped self addressed envelop and something with delivery confirmation. I am only getting paid $15 for the shop and I am not going to incur out of pocket expenses.

Of course, she will tell me where I can stuff it. And I am sure I will not be doing the shop.

But, I will not be operating from a place of fear. I have a feeling more $$ will be coming to me as a result.

I am sure you all think I am nuts, but... Maybe I am. :-)

Jersey:

Bravo for taking a stand... will be interested in hearing the response from the MS companies.

While I agree with your stand (and I disagree withe the tactics of many MS comanies) it seems that changing the agreement (asking for additional pay) after you have agreed to take the shop does not leave you in a very good position.

Negotiating the terms ahead of time leaves you in a better position.

I have found myself in the position you were in. I usually complete the job and then put it on my "Do Not Do" list.

... just a thought.

qpone

I agree. But

1. I was not aware when I took the shop I would be required to send something back.

2. I did not realize I would be dealing with a cash equivalent.

3. I have just HAD it with the fear and the uncertainty associated with MSC. When I started, I figured I would go through a period of insecurity--just as with anything else--and the insecurity would go away when I learned how to do my job--just as with anything else. Instead, I have become fearful to the point I am seeing a doctor to treat a skin condition she says is related to an underlying infection that is triggered by STRESS.


I did a shop for Ritter for which I was not paid because the one person worked at two different sites and I was spotted (and this, after the scheduler told me not to worry and the editor originally gave me a 9 on the shop. I spent two hours on that gig, for which I will not get paid due to circumstances beyond my control. I have had to fight for months (almost 6) with GfK to get full payment. I have worked on endless "easy" reports that took twice or three times as long as anticipated, not because I am dense or slow but because the MSC was misleading. I did a shop for a really good company but am only get half pay because there was no mortgage lender at the branch I had to shop. Same time, same distance, same gas, same report, But only half pay.

All of which is to say. Right, probably not the smartest thing to do, changing the terms. And I don't believe the MSCs will give a hoot. But, I am taking care of my mental health. And that is worth more than $15.

Again, I am sure the cosmos will provide me with plenty once I overcome my fear. I have faith in the universe.