MSC payment dates
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What is with the assumptions here?
I never stated I have a low opinion of you or your company. I don't think your company pays on time, that's all. And I think the 'policy' of deducting $ from reports for 'lateness' passes the smell test when 'your company' consistently pays late, and NEVER comes close to the "30 days" as stated in your policy.
As for you..well, I don't know you at all and have never dealt with you, so I have no opinion. I do find it oddly amusing that your spelling and grammar errors (on this forum) would not be accepted by your own editors if those same errors were made on a report!
I never stated I have a low opinion of you or your company. I don't think your company pays on time, that's all. And I think the 'policy' of deducting $ from reports for 'lateness' passes the smell test when 'your company' consistently pays late, and NEVER comes close to the "30 days" as stated in your policy.
As for you..well, I don't know you at all and have never dealt with you, so I have no opinion. I do find it oddly amusing that your spelling and grammar errors (on this forum) would not be accepted by your own editors if those same errors were made on a report!
I would be more than happy if Sentry just worked hard to:
1) get the payment dates closer to 30 days, and never over 60.
2) correct the errors on your website.
3) cease making excuses and own the issues.
Speaking to you or anyone at Sentry over the phone is problematic, but thanks for the offer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2015 01:44PM by winemaker.
1) get the payment dates closer to 30 days, and never over 60.
2) correct the errors on your website.
3) cease making excuses and own the issues.
Speaking to you or anyone at Sentry over the phone is problematic, but thanks for the offer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2015 01:44PM by winemaker.
winemaker
The comment about having a low opinion of my company was directed to rolfwofl.
I am all for dealing in facts and addressing each point you have raised.
You asked a question about my reference to assumptions. I am referring to several statements you made that are inaccurate.
- You stated that the cost to process payment on Paypal is a fraction of processing a check. While this may be true in general, it does not apply to our payment process for assignments completed on our Prophet portal.
- You stated that we post shops as paid, but don't cut the check for 4 to 7 days. This is also incorrect. We don't print and mail checks from our office. I'll explain this in more detail later.
- You stated that we deduct a late fee if a report is submitted "within hours of the shop, if one passes the stroke of midnight". The standard deadline for report submission is 24 hours from the date and time the assignment was scheduled. This is not true. The formula we use to determine if a report is late or not includes a 59 minute buffer. Therefore, an assignment conducted Tuesday at 5:00 PM would be due Wednesday at 5:00 PM and would be considered on time (with no late fee deducted) so long as it was submitted Wednesday by 5:59 PM.
If you submitted a report six hours after completing an assignment and a late fee was deducted, then there is an error in the calculation formula that needs to be corrected. If you are stating that we have assignments with a six hour submission deadline, that would not be accurate.
The payment language in our ICA states that payment terms are handled on a project by project basis. I believe the project you completed is our burger client. The payment terms are included on the first page of the guidelines and read as follows:
"We pay by check. Checks are processed 30 – 60 days from the date your assignment is accepted."
May 14, 2015 was a Thursday. The deadline for submission would have Friday, May 15, 2015. If this was a dinner shop and not submitted until Friday evening, our staff would not have reviewed it and released it to our client until Monday or Tuesday of the following week. If it had been released on Friday, however, payment would have been due to be processed by July 15, 2015.
We processed payments by sending transactions from our accounting software to our payment processor. The processor returns a date which is the date the check is expected to arrive at the recipients address. If your check was date 7/21, then is was most likely processed the evening of 7/13 (after 3PM ET) or on 7/14. It's possible that you report was not released until May 18 or 19 due to the weekend. The reality is that your payment was most likely processed within our payment terms. I am not trying to split hairs, rather, I am simply trying to explain how our payment process works.
I understand where the shortcomings in our payment process exist and we are working to improve the overall shopper payment experience. We think that once all of our projects (Sentry and Feedback) are on a single platform, payment processing for both companies with become smoother and more routine.
Thanks
Dave
The comment about having a low opinion of my company was directed to rolfwofl.
I am all for dealing in facts and addressing each point you have raised.
You asked a question about my reference to assumptions. I am referring to several statements you made that are inaccurate.
- You stated that the cost to process payment on Paypal is a fraction of processing a check. While this may be true in general, it does not apply to our payment process for assignments completed on our Prophet portal.
- You stated that we post shops as paid, but don't cut the check for 4 to 7 days. This is also incorrect. We don't print and mail checks from our office. I'll explain this in more detail later.
- You stated that we deduct a late fee if a report is submitted "within hours of the shop, if one passes the stroke of midnight". The standard deadline for report submission is 24 hours from the date and time the assignment was scheduled. This is not true. The formula we use to determine if a report is late or not includes a 59 minute buffer. Therefore, an assignment conducted Tuesday at 5:00 PM would be due Wednesday at 5:00 PM and would be considered on time (with no late fee deducted) so long as it was submitted Wednesday by 5:59 PM.
If you submitted a report six hours after completing an assignment and a late fee was deducted, then there is an error in the calculation formula that needs to be corrected. If you are stating that we have assignments with a six hour submission deadline, that would not be accurate.
The payment language in our ICA states that payment terms are handled on a project by project basis. I believe the project you completed is our burger client. The payment terms are included on the first page of the guidelines and read as follows:
"We pay by check. Checks are processed 30 – 60 days from the date your assignment is accepted."
May 14, 2015 was a Thursday. The deadline for submission would have Friday, May 15, 2015. If this was a dinner shop and not submitted until Friday evening, our staff would not have reviewed it and released it to our client until Monday or Tuesday of the following week. If it had been released on Friday, however, payment would have been due to be processed by July 15, 2015.
We processed payments by sending transactions from our accounting software to our payment processor. The processor returns a date which is the date the check is expected to arrive at the recipients address. If your check was date 7/21, then is was most likely processed the evening of 7/13 (after 3PM ET) or on 7/14. It's possible that you report was not released until May 18 or 19 due to the weekend. The reality is that your payment was most likely processed within our payment terms. I am not trying to split hairs, rather, I am simply trying to explain how our payment process works.
I understand where the shortcomings in our payment process exist and we are working to improve the overall shopper payment experience. We think that once all of our projects (Sentry and Feedback) are on a single platform, payment processing for both companies with become smoother and more routine.
Thanks
Dave
What we can do about this is accept the payment process as it is, or not accept future shops and therefore no longer have to deal with it.
If I do a shop in mid May I'm going to assume it doesn't go to the client for a few days. Then I'm going to assume I'll be paid some 60 days after it goes to the client if the client accepts the shop. Therefore, I expect to be paid by the end of July. Or thereabouts.
When I take the shop, I know there's a penalty if I report late. I know the stated terms of payment. From experience, I know there's a drag from time of report to time to the client.
I don't care much one way or the other about this payment process and because I don't care I don't have a dog in the fight. What I care about is the unnecessary frustration and grief I see over payments that are perceived to be not exactly on time. I learned a long time ago that if I want a paycheck every Friday there's something I can do about that -- get a job.
I've also learned that if I don't like the way a company operates it's not going to be effective for me to try to reorganize the way they do business. It's best for me if I move on and work with someone more compatible to my way of thinking.
It's been years since I've had payment problems and the companies eventually paid me after a long and aggressive chase. I won't say names but I don't shop with one of them anymore and the other pays me on the dot now. In both cases, those solutions were effective.
No matter what the problem with an MSC, if I can't resolve it to my satisfaction after a reasonable effort I just fade away. That works real well for me and I highly recommend it as the answer to many, many questions.
If I do a shop in mid May I'm going to assume it doesn't go to the client for a few days. Then I'm going to assume I'll be paid some 60 days after it goes to the client if the client accepts the shop. Therefore, I expect to be paid by the end of July. Or thereabouts.
When I take the shop, I know there's a penalty if I report late. I know the stated terms of payment. From experience, I know there's a drag from time of report to time to the client.
I don't care much one way or the other about this payment process and because I don't care I don't have a dog in the fight. What I care about is the unnecessary frustration and grief I see over payments that are perceived to be not exactly on time. I learned a long time ago that if I want a paycheck every Friday there's something I can do about that -- get a job.
I've also learned that if I don't like the way a company operates it's not going to be effective for me to try to reorganize the way they do business. It's best for me if I move on and work with someone more compatible to my way of thinking.
It's been years since I've had payment problems and the companies eventually paid me after a long and aggressive chase. I won't say names but I don't shop with one of them anymore and the other pays me on the dot now. In both cases, those solutions were effective.
No matter what the problem with an MSC, if I can't resolve it to my satisfaction after a reasonable effort I just fade away. That works real well for me and I highly recommend it as the answer to many, many questions.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
If you apply Sentry's own formula to their payment timings, perhaps you'll understand the mentality.
Offering a 1-hour grace period on a report due in 6 hours is an extension of more than 10% of the time frame for submitting the shop. If you could make the leap of faith that your shop from the 14th was submitted to their client the following day, then they payment was only late by 10% of the allotted window. My guess is that Sentry assumes a grace period of a small percentage on both sides; submission and payment.
In all seriousness, as someone who has been self employed most of my life, I'm ecstatic if a vendor pays me within a 10% window of the stated terms without having to hassle them for payment. In my main business, I'm lucky to see payments within 90 days from when I invoice. No matter what the terms are...
Offering a 1-hour grace period on a report due in 6 hours is an extension of more than 10% of the time frame for submitting the shop. If you could make the leap of faith that your shop from the 14th was submitted to their client the following day, then they payment was only late by 10% of the allotted window. My guess is that Sentry assumes a grace period of a small percentage on both sides; submission and payment.
In all seriousness, as someone who has been self employed most of my life, I'm ecstatic if a vendor pays me within a 10% window of the stated terms without having to hassle them for payment. In my main business, I'm lucky to see payments within 90 days from when I invoice. No matter what the terms are...
Just a silly question here, wouldn't it be easier if Sentry just updated their payment policy to "may take up to 75 days" or added that caveat to their policy, since there seem to be cases where payments are past 60 days (regardless of what the issue/reason is). It might make it easier for shoppers to understand when they get a payment past 60 days and solve some of the complaints.
I would consider doing this if the majority, or even a significant amount, of our shoppers were having an issue with the policy. The reality is that very few shoppers have questions about the policy.
As we migrate projects to our Shop Metrics platform, we are working out new language that accurately reflects the payment timing for payments processed with bill.com.
As we migrate projects to our Shop Metrics platform, we are working out new language that accurately reflects the payment timing for payments processed with bill.com.
Just because an MSC indicates they have not received payment inquiries from the "majority" and thus assume all is well, should not imply there is no reason for concern. Are any shops paid in 30 days? Are all payments in a shopper's account, or mailbox, in 60 days?
My guess is that as long as payment policies don't impact the availability of shoppers no company has a reason to change its payment policy. If shoppers begin to back off and it gets difficult to book shops, that would be a reason for concern. No matter what the stated terms and no matter if the MSC runs somewhat later than expected, as long as shoppers are available to get the shops done the system is working from the MSC's point of view.
Of course we would all like to be paid sooner rather than later. If a company is not paying at all, certainly we want to know and that is information that should be shared. If a company is running a little later than usual that may also be useful information indicating a new trend. However, if a company is running a little late and that's customary for the company, then it's not news.
Whether we accept any company's payment habits is a decision each of us has to make. Other than not taking shops, nothing we do will have an impact on an MSC. If we're not happy with any individual company, the answer is to move on. Perhaps we'll be missed and payment policies will change, but likely not. Most of the time two more will hop on the horse before we're all the way out of the saddle.
Of course we would all like to be paid sooner rather than later. If a company is not paying at all, certainly we want to know and that is information that should be shared. If a company is running a little later than usual that may also be useful information indicating a new trend. However, if a company is running a little late and that's customary for the company, then it's not news.
Whether we accept any company's payment habits is a decision each of us has to make. Other than not taking shops, nothing we do will have an impact on an MSC. If we're not happy with any individual company, the answer is to move on. Perhaps we'll be missed and payment policies will change, but likely not. Most of the time two more will hop on the horse before we're all the way out of the saddle.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
I agree with much of your post. However, I was not suggesting that an MSC changes its policy; instead I questioned the accuracy of the stated terms.
Mert, I understand what you're saying about accuracy of the stated terms and I would prefer 100% accuracy of terms but the degree of accuracy is not my biggest problem in keeping up with payments in this business. For me the problem is the vagueness of terms and the randomness of payments. I can look at stated terms for almost any company and then rationalize the timing of payment to sound okay because they are timing payment after the report is accepted and sent to the client and I don't have access to the information.
What would make more sense to me would be for the MSC to say something like this:
Payment will be made on the first working day of the month for all work reported more than 30 days (or 60, or 90 days) prior to the stated payment date.
My position is that we should get some kind of definite cut off date and definite pay date for work we've submitted that the MSC hasn't rejected prior to payment date. It should be up to the MSC to set their timing to cover their butt on anything that may be rejected by the client. I don't think I should be responsible for their inability to understand their own drag time.
What I prefer is a clear cut statement of what they're going to do so I can understand if they're late pay or not. I'm not concerned about late pay now and then as I understand every business has problems and ours is no exception. What I'm looking for is a straightforward statement of payment terms made for the purpose of clarifying what we can expect. What we get in most cases is not clear cut and in some cases may even be a deliberate attempt at obfuscation.,
I understand and accept that there will be no change in the way we are paid. I agreed to the payment terms of each and every MSC when I signed the agreement and I will continue to deal with random payments of mysterious and often unidentified amounts on unexpected dates and will search diligently for direct deposits, PayPal deposits, and company checks in the tumble of papers on my desk. I found one check for over $1200.00 in the ditch by the mail box, kudos to eagle eyed me.
All of this will remain the same and I have no expectations of improvement. Here's a thank you to all the MSCs I work with who pay me all they owe sooner or later, or at least so far so good. Nevertheless, it feels unusually satisfying to say how I'd like to see it done.
What would make more sense to me would be for the MSC to say something like this:
Payment will be made on the first working day of the month for all work reported more than 30 days (or 60, or 90 days) prior to the stated payment date.
My position is that we should get some kind of definite cut off date and definite pay date for work we've submitted that the MSC hasn't rejected prior to payment date. It should be up to the MSC to set their timing to cover their butt on anything that may be rejected by the client. I don't think I should be responsible for their inability to understand their own drag time.
What I prefer is a clear cut statement of what they're going to do so I can understand if they're late pay or not. I'm not concerned about late pay now and then as I understand every business has problems and ours is no exception. What I'm looking for is a straightforward statement of payment terms made for the purpose of clarifying what we can expect. What we get in most cases is not clear cut and in some cases may even be a deliberate attempt at obfuscation.,
I understand and accept that there will be no change in the way we are paid. I agreed to the payment terms of each and every MSC when I signed the agreement and I will continue to deal with random payments of mysterious and often unidentified amounts on unexpected dates and will search diligently for direct deposits, PayPal deposits, and company checks in the tumble of papers on my desk. I found one check for over $1200.00 in the ditch by the mail box, kudos to eagle eyed me.
All of this will remain the same and I have no expectations of improvement. Here's a thank you to all the MSCs I work with who pay me all they owe sooner or later, or at least so far so good. Nevertheless, it feels unusually satisfying to say how I'd like to see it done.
Mary Davis Nowell. Based close to Fort Worth. Shopping Interstate 20 east and west, Interstate 35 north and south.
I agree there is no point in stating 30 to 60 days if the lion's share of the shops are paid at 60 or later. Just state 60 or 70 days and be done with it. Whether or not an MSC has a reason to shorten payment terms could be debated. Intellishop had 60 day terms for a long, long, time. At one point they began to pay some projects at 30 days. It was probably smart of them to leave their written policy at 60 so anything sooner was just a welcome surprise. As far as I know they were not struggling to find shoppers yet they shortened their terms to 30 across the board and then changed their ICA to reflect the new terms.
Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
I don't see ACE on the master list on the first page of this thread. Does anyone have their payment schedule?
Can we sticky this thread? I like using it when I need a quick reference to company payout dates.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's already pinned to the top of the "Mystery Shopping Company Discussion" page 
It already is. There is an icon of a push pin and the thread should stay at the top. It's possible when there is a new comment added the icon doesn't show up. After you have read the new comment the icon should reappear.
Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
No problem. I'm still getting used to the new format
Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
I don't like the check method of payment. With direct deposit and companies like Paypal, I am not sure why some companies still use paper checks. It makes it more difficult to track payments and leaves room for your hard earned pay to become lost in the mail. Just my two cents, but I think technology has come a long way since the days where paper checks were the world's only option.
I've seen at least one other shopper ask, but haven't seen any replies. Does anyone have experience with payment from DataQuest? Their policy states within 60 days of the shop by cheque. I haven't reached the 60 day mark yet and have no reason to be concerned, but wondering if others have seen their payments within the stated 60 days?
I've always received Dataquest checks within a day or two of 60 days, a few times they were early.
There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
At the moment only demons come to mind
Does anyone know the pay cycle for the following:
The Shadow Agency
Elite Shopper Force
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2015 09:55PM by kristicantrell.
The Shadow Agency
Elite Shopper Force
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2015 09:55PM by kristicantrell.
Thank you for compiling and sharing this wonderful resource. I wish I read this post before I did any shops with Cirrus Marketing. It is August and I am waiting for payment from shops conducted in April, May and June.
Market Force DD payment came today, a day earlier than I expected.
Boooo! Mind didn't. :/
There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
At the moment only demons come to mind
I received an email that MF payments did not go through today due to a system error. They apologize for the inconvenience, and payments will go through on 9/14
@chicagoan wrote:
I received an email that MF payments did not go through today due to a system error. They apologize for the inconvenience, and payments will go through on 9/14
This might be a regional thing - or a problem with a specific bank. My MF payment is in my bank, deposited as of 9/11.
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