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Editors and Grammer... (Intelli got me!)

October 29, 2016 04:43PM
I think spell-check and auto-correct programs are a great tool as a "quick check" to spot blatant errors. But they can also be wrong, and often. My tablet literally wouldn't let me type "their" in a sentence that needed it, and kept changing it to "there." Maybe that's why that mistake is made so often!

In the end, nothing beats a good old-fashioned "word-for-word" proofreading with your own eyes! winking smiley

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.
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More About Mystery Shopping Editors
October 29, 2016 05:37PM
It's true, but even the best of us can miss seeing typos. And autocorrect on my phone is NOT my friend, LOL. I do post here sometimes using my phone and it's not always pretty.
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October 29, 2016 06:00PM
@JASFLALMT wrote:

It's true, but even the best of us can miss seeing typos. And autocorrect on my phone is NOT my friend, LOL.

True, especially when you're proofing something you yourself wrote. Your mind knows what it meant to write, and your eyes sometimes see that, even when it's not there! I try to put my work away for awhile, then come back to it with a fresh brain and fresh eyes. That helps a lot. But it's hard to do that when you're doing a shop that's due "now."

I turned auto-correct off on my phone, I got tired of arguing with it. winking smiley

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.
Reply
October 29, 2016 07:50PM
JAS,
Oh! Now I see! I never gave a second thought as to whether or not that was a feature of Mozilla! I just went and typed a fake email, spelling several words incorrectly on purpose, and sure enough, they were underlined in red! I guess when that's happened before, I must have just figured it was a feature of the email program. Next time I write a report, I'll misspell some words, intentionally or otherwise, and see what happens. Thanks for that info!! (And I had to laugh when you wrote: You must be spelling everything correctly.....I get more letters mixed up and switched around when I type fast! So, while my HEAD is spelling it correctly, my FINGERS are having fun at goofing off with the letters!)
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October 29, 2016 07:53PM
I think your right, they feel they have to write something, and yet nothing, because most of the time they don't even give you an example of what was wrong... all generic. I am a two spacer person and proud of it....LOL
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October 29, 2016 07:54PM
@JASFLALMT wrote:

It's true, but even the best of us can miss seeing typos. And autocorrect on my phone is NOT my friend, LOL. I do post here sometimes using my phone and it's not always pretty.
No kidding! I have a Windows OS phone, and it seems that WHENEVER I type the word "like" in a sentence, for some very odd reason, my phone autocorrect ALWAYS changes it to "lil"!!!! That's not even a real word!!! Weird! Oh well!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2016 07:54PM by guysmom.
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October 29, 2016 08:12PM
It would be really helpful if the MSC spelled out the style that is required for the client! However, if we all knew the rule then there would be less need for editors. IMHO it is job security for editors. I have even had an MSC ding me because I did not specifically state that I did have to wait in line for a cashier. I got a ding for saying that I walked directly up to the cashier to pay for my merchandise. In which implied that there was no wait.

But then again the have been black balled by an MSC for writing reports the are "too real to be believable" and using "too complex scenarios for the client to understand"
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October 29, 2016 08:41PM
@guysmom wrote:

I get more letters mixed up and switched around when I type fast! So, while my HEAD is spelling it correctly, my FINGERS are having fun at goofing off with the letters!)

Me, too. I have "fast fat finger syndrome." Which results in many typos. Which is why I'm anal about proofreading my work and about not trusting any sort of automatic spelling or grammar checker. These programs aren't foolproof or failsafe, yet they lure people into a false sense of security.

For example, I just typed this in Word:
"Deer Editor, your always pointing out what Ivey don’t wrong, but ewe never tell me when its write."

No red squiggles. Three blue ones (does that mean spell-check is questioning a usage or something?), but even "its write" didn't get flagged. These programs can't read context, so they may not catch the their/they're/there, it's/its, your/you're mistakes. And they surely won't catch missing commas, the incorrect use of she/her, he/him, me/I, etc. And Word is fond of telling me that I shouldn't be using a semi-colon when, in fact, I should be! Grrr....

I have found, though, that my tablet's predictive text feature is pretty good, even though it wouldn't let me use the correct "their" in a sentence.... I haven't disabled that. Yet. smiling smiley

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.
Reply
October 29, 2016 09:02PM
Some MSC required that your capitalize the first letter in the associate's title in place of their names. For example, if your interacted with the banker, you capitalize the b in banker. I spoke to the Banker and asked for information. If you are generalizing the banker, it would be not capitalize. As in, I would like to speak to a banker about some checking accounts.
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October 29, 2016 09:37PM
@catgrannyof5 wrote:

Some MSC required that your capitalize the first letter in the associate's title in place of their names. For example, if your interacted with the banker, you capitalize the b in banker. I spoke to the Banker and asked for information. If you are generalizing the banker, it would be not capitalize. As in, I would like to speak to a banker about some checking accounts.

They may want it that way, but it's still incorrect! But next time, I'll just suck it up and do it as they want, even though it's wrong.... (I'd bet there's no style guide on earth that would say otherwise.) Often, even when a job title/position is used totally generically, MSCs capitalize it in their guidelines and surveys, anyway. Such as, "You must speak with a Sales Associate." That's wrong, but if they want to use ridiculous "corporate important speak," I guess they can. winking smiley

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.
Reply
October 29, 2016 11:54PM
An additional peeve is varying editor demands on when to spell out "10." AP style says to spell out "one" to "nine" (with exceptions that I won't get into here.) That's what I do. A while back, I got a note from one MSC that I erred in not spelling out "ten." I must say that I stared at that note for a minute or two and decided I just didn't have the time or the interest in developing my own style sheet for every MSC: This MSC wants double spaces, this one wants "ten" spelled out, etc. Yes, I will remember that the food is served from "pans" and not "dishes." Yes, I do want to know that this place calls its employees "associates," that one calls them "team members" and another calls them "crew." That information is generally obvious by the way questions are worded. I mimic that back. But no, I am not going to remember that one out of 50 MSCs wants me to spell out "ten."

Shopping SoCal and Maui.
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October 30, 2016 12:50AM
@PuaM wrote:

But no, I am not going to remember that one out of 50 MSCs wants me to spell out "ten."

"Chicago" has the same rule as AP, I think. Why these MSCs don't use standard style guides is beyond me. One MSC I work for wants time designated as AM or PM, and that's not a standard style. It's usually either a.m./p.m. or A.M./P.M. But at least this MSC tells you upfront how they want that done, so when you do your report, you know how to notate time in a narrative.

If the MSC at least gives you some specific guidelines, you can follow them. But when they say, "Use correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation," and you do, and they mark you down for not following some (usually incorrect) style that they prefer, that's stupid. Plain and simple. I think some of them make up their own rules, then ding you for not following them!

Would it really be that difficult for them to tell us to use the "Chicago Manual of Style," AP style guide, APA style, or whatever? We could use whatever one is required for each MSC. If the editors and shoppers were all working from the same guidelines, a lot of time and aggravation could be avoided!

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2016 12:50AM by BirdyC.
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October 30, 2016 01:58PM
Confusingly enough, current ACL style prefers a single space after sentences, and yet some of ACL's own standard emails use double spaces. (As for which is correct, just look at any newspaper, magazine, or book, and you'll see only single spaces.)
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October 30, 2016 07:02PM
@BirdyC wrote:

@JASFLALMT wrote:

It's true, but even the best of us can miss seeing typos. And autocorrect on my phone is NOT my friend, LOL.

True, especially when you're proofing something you yourself wrote. Your mind knows what it meant to write, and your eyes sometimes see that, even when it's not there! I try to put my work away for awhile, then come back to it with a fresh brain and fresh eyes. That helps a lot. But it's hard to do that when you're doing a shop that's due "now."

I turned auto-correct off on my phone, I got tired of arguing with it. winking smiley




I will share a piece of wisdom that I learned from my high school English teacher about proof reading your own work. He told me to start at the end of the narrative and read the last sentence. Then the one before that, etc. This will help to stop your mind from knowing what you were trying to say and skipping over mistakes. It has really helped me over the years.
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October 30, 2016 07:32PM
@ wrote:


I will share a piece of wisdom that I learned from my high school English teacher about proof reading your own work. He told me to start at the end of the narrative and read the last sentence.
I was taught to proofread numbers in a similar manner. Read them backward. That way, the mind is not inserting a missing or erroneous digit.

Shopping SoCal and Maui.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2016 07:35PM by PuaM.
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October 30, 2016 08:30PM
@casper7776 wrote:

I will share a piece of wisdom that I learned from my high school English teacher about proof reading your own work. He told me to start at the end of the narrative and read the last sentence. Then the one before that, etc. This will help to stop your mind from knowing what you were trying to say and skipping over mistakes. It has really helped me over the years.

Someone else recently told me that. In my 30+ years of professional writing and editing, I'd never heard that tip. But next time I write something, I'll try it. For me, the best "trick" to date has been to put away the piece overnight, if I'm not pushing deadline, or even just for an hour or two. But this idea seems as if it would be effective, so I'll give it a whirl!

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.
Reply
October 30, 2016 09:18PM
I use the free version of Grammarly, and it is good. I have asked various proof readers to let me see the errors that they claim that I have made. Of course, they have all told me that that is impossible.

In some cases, I have wondered if they were the ones who didn't know how to spell or use proper grammar. Over the years, some of the rules of grammar have changed. I was taught to use paragraphs. One proof reader told me not to use paragraphs. I was taught to provide two spaces after a sentence or a question. I have seen online that that is not the case anymore. (I have seen that using "that that" is acceptable.)

Some MSCs have their own manual of style on their site. That is helpful.
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October 30, 2016 09:22PM
@plotzed wrote:

Confusingly enough, current ACL style prefers a single space after sentences, and yet some of ACL's own standard emails use double spaces. (As for which is correct, just look at any newspaper, magazine, or book, and you'll see only single spaces.)


Yes, you are right. The single spacing in newspapers, books, and newspapers is done to use up less space. that is not a factor in a report.

However, I have been told to use single spaces after a sentence or question. It is a hard habit to get into.
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October 30, 2016 09:36PM
@BirdyC wrote:

I think spell-check and auto-correct programs are a great tool as a "quick check" to spot blatant errors. But they can also be wrong, and often. My tablet literally wouldn't let me type "their" in a sentence that needed it, and kept changing it to "there." Maybe that's why that mistake is made so often!

In the end, nothing beats a good old-fashioned "word-for-word" proofreading with your own eyes! winking smiley


I agree. Grammarly is very good. It provides me with a heads up, and most of the time it is accurate. I always proofread and do not consider it foolproof.
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October 30, 2016 09:39PM
@indy101 wrote:

Over the years, some of the rules of grammar have changed. I was taught to use paragraphs. One proof reader told me not to use paragraphs.
Early on, I had feedback that I should not use paragraphs. (Some formats delete them no matter how I format them.) Then, I got comments from a MSC that I needed to break my narrative into paragraphs. Now, I double space between paragraphs. I haven't had anyone tell me not to do that. I figured that the MSC knows if the platform it uses automatically deletes paragraph indents or line spacing. It is annoying to have different rules depending on MSC preferences.

Shopping SoCal and Maui.
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October 30, 2016 09:40PM
@catgrannyof5 wrote:

Some MSC required that your capitalize the first letter in the associate's title in place of their names. For example, if your interacted with the banker, you capitalize the b in banker. I spoke to the Banker and asked for information. If you are generalizing the banker, it would be not capitalize. As in, I would like to speak to a banker about some checking accounts.

I see. Like the following? Based on what the mystery shopping companies pay, I don't need to talk to a Banker.
{:>winking smiley
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October 30, 2016 09:43PM
@Kate20105 wrote:

I think your right, they feel they have to write something, and yet nothing, because most of the time they don't even give you an example of what was wrong... all generic. I am a two spacer person and proud of it....LOL

Well, thanks 2 texting, we will soon not have 2 worry about spelling.
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October 30, 2016 09:51PM
@indy101 wrote:

@catgrannyof5 wrote:

Some MSC required that your capitalize the first letter in the associate's title in place of their names.

I see. Like the following? Based on what the mystery shopping companies pay, I don't need to talk to a Banker.
{:>winking smiley
Yipes. Back in my newspaper days, we would never capitalize a job description. This is getting too confusing.

Examples: There are a lot of sheriff's deputies, but our top cop is Sheriff Annie Oakley. Over the centuries, there have been many popes, but only one Pope Francis ... etc.

I know the MSCs each have their own styles, but I have to wonder why we little guys are expected to know the unique style for 50-100 of them. As others have pointed out, if they could settle on AP or Chicago Manual of Style, that would be a good first step.

Shopping SoCal and Maui.
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October 30, 2016 09:52PM
I don't think that some of the MSC are actually using grammar, they just want specific words capitalized for whatever reason. You all may know this one which is specific to one company that I shop for. Associate, regardless of where it is in a sentence. The banking industry doesn't seem to care whether or not you use capitals or not. I usually follow the questions in the report. If the MSC capitalizes a word I follow it. Never been told different from the companies.
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October 30, 2016 10:29PM
@indy101 wrote:

Yes, you are right. The single spacing in newspapers, books, and newspapers is done to use up less space. that is not a factor in a report.

As ChrisCooper said, two spaces were once used because manual typewriters couldn't automatically adjust spacing, and there was often lots of white space within type. Two spaces ensured that sentences were clearly visually separated. But computers can auto-adjust spacing proportionally between characters, which eliminates extra white space. So, one space is all that's needed for separation between sentences. It uses up less space, but that's not the reason for it.

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2016 10:59PM by BirdyC.
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October 31, 2016 11:49PM
When a MSC has specified some unusual guidelines regarding the reporting style, I'll write it down on my notes so I don't have to go back and check their guidelines when I'm doing the reports.
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November 03, 2016 03:53AM
Punctuation is important. I was negotiating a bonus for a shop I didn't really want to do, but was on the way elsewhere. It was downtown and I explained that I was going to have to pay through the nose for parking. The scheduler sent me this:

"I gave you $50 bonus which is the incentive for this shop, PLUS allowance for parking."

To me, that meant $50 AND $25 to park. To her, it meant $50 total. A comma makes all the difference. And, no, she didn't pony up the other $25.

Now scheduling travel shops for the day after Christmas through mid-January.
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November 03, 2016 02:27PM
@PasswordNotFound wrote:

"I gave you $50 bonus which is the incentive for this shop, PLUS allowance for parking."

To me, that meant $50 AND $25 to park. To her, it meant $50 total. A comma makes all the difference. And, no, she didn't pony up the other $25.

Wow.... This isn't even a matter of punctuation! With or without a comma, what she wrote was that she was indeed giving you $50 plus parking. If the $50 included the parking allowance, then she should have written "I gave you $50 bonus, which is the incentive for this shop including allowance for parking."

The word "plus" means that you would be getting a parking allowance over and above the $50. I would have fought that tooth and nail with the MSC. It's not your fault the scheduler doesn't understand the difference between "plus" and "including." No matter how she punctuated the sentence, "plus" is "plus."

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.
Reply
November 03, 2016 04:06PM
Thanks, Birdy. That's what I thought, but wasn't sure. It was pretty obvious I wasn't going to get the parking from her no matter what. I did try. Good luck to her the next time she's in a bind.

Now scheduling travel shops for the day after Christmas through mid-January.
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November 03, 2016 04:55PM
It sure would be nice if MSCs would hold their own schedulers and editors to the same standards to which they hold us!

I learn something new every day, but not everyday!
I've learned to never trust spell-check or my phone's auto-fill feature.
Reply
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