After doing hundreds of shops over the years, I've worked with difficult editors/proof readers that may give me a hard time but eventually we work out the problem. Not the case with with this one particular gentleman at Sea Leval who is overseeing their dealership negotiation shops. His snarky manner during the training session hinted that he would be a bear to work with, and my instincts proved right. I helped them at the last minute by taking on a two visit dealer shop only to be harassed via email by this guy about not following guidelines. It was an example of shop guidelines not syncing with reality. I went to the dealer and the business manager put in writing what he was gonna be able to do for me in order to get me to buy the car. In plain old English, which is a refreshing experience at a dealer, the guy said I'll give you this if you buy the car for that, and signed his name. Not good enough for Mr. Rich at Sea Leval. Not looking forward to working with that guy again.

I'm confused....why are you intentionally misspelling their name?

Just looking to avoid mentioning the msc name and assignment. Specifics that will violate IC rules

Tell me more... What, exactly, did your beloved friend and editor want/need for this shop? How did this experience vary from guidelines? (Inquiring minds, and those who have not done that type of shop for that company yet, want to know.)

Dealer shops are on my 10' pole list. I've done only two in the past, and both were nightmares. Good luck

I no longer have access to the detailed guidelines since I submitted the shop - I provided every single financial detail the dealer was able to give me. The problem stems from the MSC expecting this particular dealer to provide information in a manner that would fit the editors pre-assembled template. Me giving the sales guy a template to fill out is ridiculous and not realistic in a real world car purchase/negotiation - and that's what it would have taken to get 100% payment for this ridiculous shop.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2017 04:18PM by jlovesnyc.

There are some good dealer shops out there. I've seen them be as easy as walking in and just having the guy describe the car to you for a $35 fee and as ridiculous as a test drive and negotiation for $17. It varies by MSC.

I will agree he was somewhat snarky on the training call. It is a detailed shop, so I understood his attitude to a point. I would guess that he has received several reports he could not use. He gave great details on how to complete it successfully. I can generally handle detailed shops well but decided this was not worth it.

Ironically enough, the dealership and the salesman were not sleaze balls. They actually gave me a legit good deal and all the discounts I wanted because they just wanted to make a sale. Too bad this was a mystery shop and not a real purchase. I've dealt with all sleaze balls when really buying a car. Go figure.

@DareWright wrote:

I'm confused....why are you intentionally misspelling their name?

@jlovesnyc wrote:

Just looking to avoid mentioning the msc name and assignment. Specifics that will violate IC rules

I think you may be misunderstanding the way that works. Obfuscating the MSC name in such a subtle way isn't protecting you from anything, and the forum rules just ask you not to name the client in the same thread, which you did not.

All you have done by misspelling the MSC is make it difficult for others to find the thread when searching using the correct MSC name. That gives me the impression your attention to detail may also have been part of the issue with having the shop rejected.

Ouch. Sharp left jab there Stevo. I don't intend my posts to be archived classical writings that will be searched for, for ever and ever so that future shoppers will lean into its insight. You found it, responded to (fast), and so did others - Mission accomplished. Hmmmm, I think you might just be Mr. Rich himself.

Oh, I thought the reason for the misspelling was to elude any employees from the MSC who might happen to search the forum looking for comments on their company. It works pretty well, too.

But that's how the forum works, @jlovesnyc; When someone has an issue with a MSC, they can come here and see if their problem is unique or not. Once your thread leaves the top of the heap, shoppers would find it through a search.

Not that it matters, since your post is basically a complaint that your shop was not accepted, without giving any real detail to explain why it could not be accepted. Another shopper has chimed in an said that the shop was too detailed for them, and they decided not to do it based on that....thus, my observation of your attention to detail. Any paranoia that I may a MSC representative posting under another name is something else entirely...

There is no "that's how the forum works". I've seen threads on here that talk about what's for dinner and managing medical debt. So your your theoretical interpretation of how the forum should work is, well, theoretical.

I'm fine with the shop not being accepted. There were written guidelines and he was able to pick and choose what he wanted to enforce, which he did. He had all the leverage and any ambiguity in the guidelines or contradictory instruction from scheduler did not matter. It didn't work out for me, and I got partial pay, I'll move on, like most experienced shoppers do, and learn from the assignment.

The big issue for me was his tone. The snarkiness that another shopper also heard, in the MSC reps training meetings spill over into his email communications in the form of rudeness and a condescending tone. Business is business but, there is an unwritten level of basic, no prereq needed, respect that everyone deserves and should extend when communicating with others.

Being that I sell cars for a living, I have never performed these type of shops.

Based on my experience, when it comes to the numbers, there is no way to force a dealer to provide information outside of that dealers protocols. Same if you want a quote from a contractor or on appliances. You accept quotes and related disclosures per the companies policies.

If the mystery shop guidelines require a specific format or break down of numbers, expect to fail. Mr. Rich is aware of this, that customers can not tell a business how to provide information.

Some car dealers will provide a signed comprehensive buyers orders, something any finance company would accept for loan purposes.

Some will provide limited breakdowns of numbers on a unsigned buyers order. Many will provide general numbers, hand written on a unofficial purchase order or on a piece of paper. Nothing that is enforceable or what a finance company would accept.

Hard core traditional dealers might write down a selling price and nothing else, otherwise providing limited numbers orally or by e-mail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2017 11:33PM by isaiah58.

I did one of these and tend to agree with the comments on all aspects. I got paid only because I got lucky enough to find a sales person willing to write down the missing number after multiple calls after the visits.

I found my intreactions w the PM on the project to be difficult and at times, condescending.

They tried to send me to a second dealership which has a strict no haggle pricing strategy and still wanted me to get a discount, which this brand does not do, as all cars are custom made. I declined once I realized they wanted the same #s and this brand did not have them.

These are now on my very short 10ft pole list !

I tried two of these shops got paid for one and did not bother going back for the second visit on the second cutting my losses. Let me try to clear this up as I am familiar with these shops and understand where the OP went wrong.

You are given two sets of numbers to get for each dealership. The 3 sets of which two are assigned are lease, finance, or cash purchase not financed. All numbers including discounts, rates, apr, residual value etc are to be in professional printed quotes with nothing handwritten. Not all dealerships have the capability to include all these values in their software for quotes. My first shop I got everything mostly professionally printed but a few of the specs had to be written. Since the numbers worked out in his program Rich accepted the shop but snarky warned me they don't always and everything must be professional typed out. If you fight hard enough and long enough all dealers will eventually give you a printed quote with most of the required if not all of the required numbers. The thing is how long and hard are you willing to fight for a $75 paying shop that you have to make two visits. The first one they claim takes 45 minutes but your looking at at least an hour more like 2 hours. Then the second visit where you must try to get a lower price which they say 15 minutes but may again take an hour and most likely at least 30 mins. Now if you have an appointment on the 2nd visit and still have to wait which happened to me then you can add even more time. Now you have to add drive time to the dealership. Looking at the car minimal time and reading the guidelines. The report probably the easiest part is still 20 to 30 mins. I would need $200 to think about trying another.

I believe the OP only got basic handwritten numbers and may not have been able to get all the required numbers. Well it may not seem fair it is clear as day all numbers must be a printed quote so I agree with See Level not paying the OP. Now I am sure the OP could have gone back and gotten printed quote taking more time but at least would have gotten paid. I could have done my second visit on my 2nd shop and gotten paid but I did not want to spend any more time and decided it just was not worth it. There are lowering paying shops that are easy and I can do multiple to end up making more in the same time. I just wish the Op would edit the thread title to the correct spelling of the MSC so others can learn on this shop.

A word on Rich. He does provide a thorough training (unpaid) to do the shops. He can seem to come off rude or snarky, or unprofessional but in fairness these are hard shops for even the most veteran shoppers and are not IMHO for most shoppers. I do believe Rich has his own business and subcontracts and works with Sea Level to get these shops done. I believe Rich is making a lot of money of of us. Rich has his own email which is not a Sea Level email which supports this theory. I am just sick of the 40 emails I get everyday on these shops and the dozen more on qualifying for these shops which I already am.

Buffalo - Thanks for the thorough explanation. I think I'm a good negotiator but all the time/detail involved clarifies my initial thought about staying away from these kinds of shops.

Rich was feeling generous and approved half the fee after a long back and forth. His guidelines are not perfect and I let him know it, in fact they are flawed and inconsistent with what the Scheduler and his training have to say. I commend the dealer as they did everything they could to put all the numbers on paper on dealer stationary. I got all his numbers money factor, residual etc. Every thing most customers don't know about. Next time they come calling I'm gonna ask for a template to take to the dealer for the sales guy to fill out. I'll even title it: riches mystery worksheet and have dealer read the guidelines.

So, I am assuming as a shopper one has to ask the dealer to "assume" you have excellent credit and provide a money factor that until a credit application is submitted is a guess/estimate? Same with the finance rate?

Letter Head? I do not understand that one. I have never been asked to print quotes on a letter head. Matter of fact, outside of screen prints, Buyers Orders do not include financial information.

The entire scenario appears to be highly adversariall and demanding. With the level of information available to customers these days, these scenarios must require people that are great at acting like they are confused and uneducated.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2017 11:37AM by isaiah58.

Also, misspelling "mispelled" was too funny

@jlovesnyc wrote:

Just looking to avoid mentioning the msc name and assignment. Specifics that will violate IC rules

Buffalo, completely agree!

I spent several hours chasing it down. My only saving grace was explaining I had to have it because my insurance company needed it because my story was that my car was totaled and I needed to buy a new comparable vehicle, so because of this they were requiring all kinds of $$.

I don't do these shops or work for this company, but hearing the details of an assignment like this makes me cringe.

If they are indeed shopping multiple brands then I'm guessing the end client is some kind of dealer database and this is not about upholding company standards or compliance. It's not even mystery shopping, and closer to corporate espionage, which is why they want to send secret shoppers in and keep it a secret.

When you go to a site like Edmunds, look up a car and it tells you a good sale price...where do you think those numbers come from?

Thanks, Steve. As I was reading this thread I was trying to figure out what the client was hoping to gather from the quotes. But, you're probably right--the purpose is data mining. I wonder who is buying the info? Usually, the value of such info is in the sales or purchase price. Since shoppers aren't buying the cars, I guess that's why the quotes have to be on letterhead. That's the MSC's verification to the client that it's a bona fide sales offer. Any vehicle database that offers searches by zip code (Edmund's True Car, for example) could use this data. I'm sure the data can be sold multiple times to multiple clients. Interesting.

Actually, the 3rd party sites being mentioned only provide base pricing. The incentives are available from the manufacturers. They do not report payment information as that is affected by too many factors. Since every vehicle is registered, the selling price is obtained from each states Motor Vehicle department. The 3rd party sites could see these reports as valuable to fine tune their numbers regionally. I can assume the financial figures help verify that the quotes have no loose ends.

As far as being on Letter Head, a highly unique and unreasonable request. It definitely identifies the shopper IMHO.

I am not doing these shops either after doing two. I had the same thing happen, I got handwritten signed quotes and while the shop was taken, I was told they were in writing.
I have. I haven't told why, in case I change my mind but I think I will next time.

I avoid any shop for which, whether or not I get compensated, relies on somebody else following the script properly. You can ask for a quote, but if somebody refuses, you are limited. You can ask for a business card, but if the guy doesn't have one, you have to make do. Etc.

@isaiah58 wrote:

Actually, the 3rd party sites being mentioned only provide base pricing.

I don't think that's true. Edmunds will provide average sale prices from any dealers I select. I also tells you if your desired price is good, bad or impossible to attain based on some secret formula.

That said, being able to identify a "shopper" also gives incentive for a dealer to supply inaccurate numbers, rather than refuse the request. Who knows where the numbers end up. It's clearly not the deanship itself, though. That's why it seems shady to me.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

@isaiah58 wrote:

Actually, the 3rd party sites being mentioned only provide base pricing.

I don't think that's true. Edmunds will provide average sale prices from any dealers I select. I also tells you if your desired price is good, bad or impossible to attain based on some secret formula.

That said, being able to identify a "shopper" also gives incentive for a dealer to supply inaccurate numbers, rather than refuse the request. Who knows where the numbers end up. It's clearly not the deanship itself, though. That's why it seems shady to me.

I think we are talking about the same thing, the price of the vehicle before tax/tag/title/fees, by region. Not by dealer, by vehicle.

@isaiah58 wrote:

I think we are talking about the same thing, the price of the vehicle before tax/tag/title/fees, by region. Not by dealer, by vehicle.

Nope...they will list final sale prices to customers by dealer for a particular configuration.