bump

Sounds like the attorney is not very good as he should have had all that stuff put together before they filed. Sucks! BTW, I sent my certified mail packages on June 13 and to date have not received a receipt. Has anybody gotten notification that their mailed packages were received?

Here is the link for the Placer County, CA Superior Court Calendar. Click on “Tentative Rulings and Calendar Notes”, then click on "Probate: 06/28/2017" Notes for additional info

[www.placercourts.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2017 06:32PM by Inside Evaluators.

@plmccut wrote:

Sounds like the attorney is not very good as he should have had all that stuff put together before they filed. Sucks! ..........................

Given the circumstances of the demise of the owner, how prepared do you want the attorneys to be, considering they too were caught off guard and are now trying to piece together a summation?

Don't think it's a summation so much as supporting documentation. And they had March, April, May and half of June to get it together. Believe me, I've worked as a legal secretary and the attorneys I worked for would have worked all night, if necessary, to get the material required. In this case, it could be some problem with the gentleman who is filing to be the administrator. But again, the attorney is the key.

Probably this is fortunate, but I know little about estates. I do know my family has executors designated in their wills. Does the fact someone had to petition the court to be executor mean he died intestate? Does anyone know how all of it then impacts a business versus personal assets?

I think you still have to petition the court even though you are named as executor in the will. In my Mother's case, she named my 3 sibs and myself as co-executors. We all met with the attorney and decided that we would allow just one sib to handle the probate matters. We did that to speed things up because, for instance, I lived 2000 miles away and that was back in the day before the computer capability to sign documents. It would be nice if anyone who has worked with probate matters would respond.

@LisaSTL wrote:

Does anyone know how all of it then impacts a business versus personal assets?

This is the issue I have brought up several times. If the business was a separate legal entity (LLC, Corp, LP, etc) then the only thing in probate would be the ownership of the shares of the entity. If it were a sole proprietorship then it all would be included. At some point the company was an LLC. I am not sure what the current status is.

@LisaSTL wrote:

Probably this is fortunate, but I know little about estates. I do know my family has executors designated in their wills. Does the fact someone had to petition the court to be executor mean he died intestate? Does anyone know how all of it then impacts a business versus personal assets?

In CA, if someone dies intestate, the petition to be estate administrator has to be approved by the court (my daughters had to sign approval notices for me to administer my ex's estate.

If someone has a will, in some cases, the court still has to approve the person designated in the will.

As others have mentioned, I also have a sneaking suspicion that the business aspect of this is the biggest wrinkle at the moment.

This is only the baby steps beginning of what may be a long, messy process, folks.

As soon as the court approves any docs, etc, they are usually posted on the site in conjunction with the case number, since they are public record.

Since the CA probate courts have a 3-4 month back log, the petition for administration may have been filed with the intent to provide the "missing" docs at the hearing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2017 11:49PM by Inside Evaluators.

If you could keep us posted with the court information, I would really appreciate it.

Will do

I live in California and was the executor of my mother's will and trust. I did not have to get approval from anyone to take steps to dissolve her estate. Had she not had a trust her entire estate would have gone into probate and a judge would have made the decisions. But this was a personal estate not a business and I have no reason to believe a business is conducted in the same way as a personal estate.
From my limited understanding of how things work I would think that all of us who are mystery shoppers would be handled as one class of creditor. We would have a place in line to receive money from the state with the hierarchy order predetermined by laws already established. We would all be contacted by the court at the same time. I would imagine there might be a differentiation of sub types of claims within our class of creditor e.g fees, bonuses or reimbursements made by the court in the case that there is not enough money to go around. I really do not think they will pay only people who have sent a letter but it certainly will not hurt to do that. Generally from what I have seen in the case of bankruptcy in a company (and remember this is not a bankruptcy) if the money available is not enough to pay the creditors they would set a percentage of what you are owed and that is what you would get. For instance if there is only enough money to pay half of what is owed in our class each person in our class would get 50% of what they are owed.
I am not at all legally trained but I do live in the state and know that this state has rules to follow and laws to protect people in all aspects of life. I also know that some things take forever to go through the courts so anyone who is keeping an eye on what is happening and hears anything new continue to let the rest of us know. Everyone's input has been very helpful.

@sandyf wrote:

I live in California and was the executor of my mother's will and trust. I did not have to get approval from anyone to take steps to dissolve her estate. Had she not had a trust her entire estate would have gone into probate and a judge would have made the decisions. But this was a personal estate not a business and I have no reason to believe a business is conducted in the same way as a personal estate.
From my limited understanding of how things work I would think that all of us who are mystery shoppers would be handled as one class of creditor. We would have a place in line to receive money from the state with the hierarchy order predetermined by laws already established. We would all be contacted by the court at the same time. I would imagine there might be a differentiation of sub types of claims within our class of creditor e.g fees, bonuses or reimbursements made by the court in the case that there is not enough money to go around. I really do not think they will pay only people who have sent a letter but it certainly will not hurt to do that. Generally from what I have seen in the case of bankruptcy in a company (and remember this is not a bankruptcy) if the money available is not enough to pay the creditors they would set a percentage of what you are owed and that is what you would get. For instance if there is only enough money to pay half of what is owed in our class each person in our class would get 50% of what they are owed.
I am not at all legally trained but I do live in the state and know that this state has rules to follow and laws to protect people in all aspects of life. I also know that some things take forever to go through the courts so anyone who is keeping an eye on what is happening and hears anything new continue to let the rest of us know. Everyone's input has been very helpful.

You're very luck your mom had a Trust. After my recent experience with my ex's probate, I tell everyone to get their ass to a Trust attorney and get one drawn up.

I, too, live in CA. You are correct except that the probate judge usually does not make the decisions. There are 2 types of probate. In one, the administrator can proceed to deal with the estate's matters without the court's approval regarding each move. In the other, everything the administrator wants to do must first be approved by the court before proceeding. The Estate's attorney submits the requests regarding what the administrator of the estate wants to do and the judge either approves or denies the request. After an administrator is approved, some wills are overseen by the probate court, others aren't. A lot depends on the value of the estate's assets.

Since we still don't know if NSS and/or Matt's other businesses will be considered estate assets, anyone owed money will have to wait it out a bit. CA laws are very specific and exacting. Estates have to publish a "Notice to Creditors" in a legal publication in or close to where the deceased resided. Creditors then submit their claims to the court. According to the court calendar, it looks like the court has not been provided with proof that that has been done. They also have to notify all KNOWN creditors, which would include all shoppers owed money.

I have no idea how the business law end of it works but I would assume that it is a similar procedure. When one of our clients declared bankruptcy earlier this year, we received a notice to send all invoices to their lawyer. That's why it's critical within the next few weeks to find out NSS's business status. That's also why I am recommending that certified letters (signature required) documenting payments owed be sent to BOTH the probate attorney and NSS's physical address (and hopefully be forwarded)

Of course, that can't be done until the business records for NSS, etc. are scrutinized by either an accountant or a representative of whatever law firm may be involved in the business aspects of this.
That's why it's critical within the next few weeks to find out NSS's business status.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2017 03:40AM by Inside Evaluators.

Since they are incorporated in the State of Delaware I looked them up. For a small fee one can see the filings which would probably provide the current status. It could be the documents might provide an attorney's name who set up the LLC.

@plmccut wrote:

Since they are incorporated in the State of Delaware I looked them up. For a small fee one can see the filings which would probably provide the current status. It could be the documents might provide an attorney's name who set up the LLC.

Hopefully that attorney information is current. Once an administrator for the estate is approved and legal matters can be addressed, you would think the estate's probate attorney would be required to provide that information if an inquiry was sent to him.

I'd ask my probate attorney, but I'm afraid she's going to start charging me to answer all my questions about this lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2017 03:46AM by Inside Evaluators.

I'm inclined to think that NSS is going to come under the other assets and that Daniel W. will be the executor. Seems to me if NSS had a separate attorney, that attorney would have filed something by now, surely!

When Matt died, NSS was probably a fairly decent asset but the longer things go without anyone running the business, NSS is losing value.

@plmccut wrote:

I'm inclined to think that NSS is going to come under the other assets and that Daniel W. will be the executor. Seems to me if NSS had a separate attorney, that attorney would have filed something by now, surely!

Not necessarily. Lots more legal hoops regarding businesses as opposed to estates. I'll ask my attorney. She pretty cool. She may be able to give some leads. I have to email her tomorrow anyway.

In addition, there are currently at least 3 reporters working on this story. The one that published the first article is going to be publishing a followup soon. Maybe something will be included about payment statuses and procedure for NSS's contractors.

Except that if NSS was still an LLC then that means he probably owned the whole shootin' match.

@plmccut wrote:

Except that if NSS was still an LLC then that means he probably owned the whole shootin' match.

Yep. From what I saw, there were no other partners involved in NSS.

hmmmmmm...according to Legal Zoom

"If you are running a single-member limited liability company -- a one member LLC -- you may need to insert a provision in your existing operating agreement that will insure a smooth transfer of ownership to another person or organization after your death. If you die and there is no provision within your single-member LLC's operating agreement for the transfer of your ownership to someone else, your LLC can become an asset of your estate. As such, it may encounter tax and probate problems. Your LLC may be divided among family members, dissolved or sold off to people you did not choose, depending on the laws of the state in which your estate is probated."

Interesting.

So the big question is....if NSS was a single-member LLC, was there a transfer of ownership provision in the operating agreement? If not, was NSS operating legally from March-May?

I'd bet there was not. And maybe all of this is why the attorney for the estate is being so cagey about who will represent NSS.

@plmccut wrote:

I'd bet there was not. And maybe all of this is why the attorney for the estate is being so cagey about who will represent NSS.

[info.legalzoom.com]

"How to Dissolve a Sole Proprietorship After the Owner's Death
Debts

The final step is to repay creditors out of the remaining assets of the business. Sole proprietors are personally liable for the debts of their businesses. Secured creditors, such as auto lenders, have a claim on the assets of the business and should be paid first. The representative pays accounts payable and unsecured creditors out of any remaining assets. If the assets are not sufficient, then the representative should contact the creditors and work out a repayment agreement. Without a repayment agreement, unpaid creditors can file a claim on the owner's estate, which will tie up the estate in probate court."

*All of this information will be public record as they are filed with the court and approved.*
nite nite all...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2017 05:37AM by Inside Evaluators.

Sorry for the long post...
FWIW, I don’t believe NSS is an LLC. Paperwork was filed to purchase the name National Shopping Service, LLC from a company that already owned it, but that deal was not completed.

Matt owned an incorporated business, Business Index Group, Inc., and was going to purchase the name “National Shopping Service, LLC” from another company that already owned that name, but changed his mind. Instead, in 2008, Matt filed the name National Shopping Service as a “fictitious business name” (also known as “doing business as” and “dba”). National Shopping Service is not an LLC; it is part of Matt’s incorporated company Business Index Group, Inc.

Below are links to the filings. My understanding is that the estate is dealing with a corporation, not an LLC or proprietorship. How do you all interpret this??

Here is the timeline for how NSS came into being, as far as I can follow the filings that are online. Unless otherwise noted, the filings were done by Matt. (footnotes after each filing correspond to the links below).

1989. Business Index Group, Inc. established as PI &market research company. [*1]

2006. Corporation Service Company [of NC] files agreement to transfer the name “National Shopping Service, LLC” [of DE] to Matt. [*3]

2008. Business Index Group files a Fictitious Business Name for National Shopping Service [note, it is not an LLC, see next] [*2]

2010. Corporation Service Company files a cancellation of name transfer of National Shopping Service LLC to Matt (5/11/2010, paragraph 5) saying he did not follow through on the deal. This filing confirms that National Business Service, LLC “has not and is not currently doing business in California.” [*3]


*1. Business Index Group, Inc.
[businesssearch.sos.ca.gov]
California Corporate Id Number# C1460563

*2. National Shopping Service (fictitious business name)
Placer County Clerk Records
[countyfusion4.propertyinfo.com]
Search for fictitious name “National Shopping Service”

*3. National Shopping Service, LLC
[businesssearch.sos.ca.gov]
Search for LLC and Name= National Shopping Service
Document dated 5/11/2010, paragraph 5 states that the LLC designation was never transferred to Matt.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2017 03:13PM by ChrisCooper.

Good work! I think it's about time for someone to get a free consultation from a business law attorney. This could get messy, messy, messy! There is enough information that has been gathered for an attorney to easily find the information that shoppers need in order to get paid.

We have gathered about as much as we can. You guys need an expert at this point....unless after the hearing on Wednesday transparent information is made available to creditors.

PS-The address for Business Index Group is the same as for NSS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2017 04:03PM by Inside Evaluators.

Again, as I have stated several times, any legal business entity other than a sole proprietorship is completely seperate from the individual. I was a finance major 27 years ago. I forgot a lot but not this much.
It doesn't matter if it is an LLC, LP, or Corporation. The only thing that will be in probate is the ownership of the shares. Anything within that entity will be seperate.

Edited to add that an S Corporation would be handled similar to a sole proprietorship I believe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2017 04:23PM by bgriffin.

We are all grasping for leads at this point and your education is a lot more accurate than our findings and assumptions. Hoping that direct information from the estate or from the legal representatives of Business Index Group/NSS will be forthcoming very soon.

Has anyone gotten their certified mail receipt yet?
I thought I had sent my documentation with a request for signature but, alas, in reviewing my receipts I see I did not.