@shoptastic wrote:

Yeah, I think there was some intuitive aspect of what you were saying. I actually am not that familiar with nursing and/or assisted care/living homes (don't really know the difference actually). I don't have any relatives in them, but do have many senior family members.

When I was younger, nursing homes were pretty much the only option (1970's-1980's). Unfortunately, many times Seniors were "dumped" there and much of the "staring off into space" that one often witnessed was because people had just given up. They also were helpful when someone could no longer live at home. At that time, there also wasn't the availability of home care, so no longer being able to live at home sometimes only meant that they couldn't shop for groceries any longer or cook for themselves. Also, there was definitely a difference depending on income levels and gender (far fewer beds for men because men don't live as long so the space wasn't there so you took what you could get). We had to place 2 Grandparents in homes because we could no longer take care of them at home (Grandpa had ALS, Grandma had mini-strokes) but literally had to visit every day to make sure that everything was on the up and up. Sadly, staff was paid barely above minimum wage then and it hasn't gotten much better. Staff tries their best but are working with very limited resources.

Now there is a whole universe of care, much of it very pricey. Senior Living ranges from communities with a variety of levels of a la carte services (housekeeping, personal care, daily check-ins, etc), assisted living (generally own apartment with more daily services and medication dispensing), another level that is more intense but can't remember what it is, to memory care which usually are locked floors that have staff dedicated to dealing with memory issues but sometimes those services can be accessed while living in the same unit. As a family we were very fortunate that my Dad was good with money so that he was able to move into a place that would have allowed him to move to the memory care floor once that was needed (such as wandering off). He passed away before things got to that point. However, as good as the higher priced places are, they are communal living situations and very difficult to keep folks "confined to quarters". My Dad's place didn't have a kitchen in the unit so he had to take his meals in the communal dining room. Also, if regular routines are disrupted, memory issues can be exacerbated or decline accelerated.

Some Seniors, too, prefer the Senior Living type place for a variety of reasons. For the right price, you can move into an apartment with gourmet meals, outings, etc. handled for you. Often they have on-site beauty and barber shops and take care of your laundry. Trust me, these places have amazing food and an incredible social schedule (side note, the staff knew that something was wrong with my Dad when he quit being the first one in line for the outings)! At some they will check on you if you don't open your door by a certain time each day and, at the minimum, have call buttons throughout the unit. Most of these places allow you to remain in the same unit and then just add additional services if and when you need them.

@KarenMSW wrote:

When I was younger, nursing homes were pretty much the only option (1970's-1980's). Unfortunately, many times Seniors were "dumped" there and much of the "staring off into space" that one often witnessed was because people had just given up. They also were helpful when someone could no longer live at home. At that time, there also wasn't the availability of home care, so no longer being able to live at home sometimes only meant that they couldn't shop for groceries any longer or cook for themselves. Also, there was definitely a difference depending on income levels and gender (far fewer beds for men because men don't live as long so the space wasn't there so you took what you could get). We had to place 2 Grandparents in homes because we could no longer take care of them at home (Grandpa had ALS, Grandma had mini-strokes) but literally had to visit every day to make sure that everything was on the up and up. Sadly, staff was paid barely above minimum wage then and it hasn't gotten much better. Staff tries their best but are working with very limited resources.

Now there is a whole universe of care, much of it very pricey. Senior Living ranges from communities with a variety of levels of a la carte services (housekeeping, personal care, daily check-ins, etc), assisted living (generally own apartment with more daily services and medication dispensing), another level that is more intense but can't remember what it is, to memory care which usually are locked floors that have staff dedicated to dealing with memory issues but sometimes those services can be accessed while living in the same unit. As a family we were very fortunate that my Dad was good with money so that he was able to move into a place that would have allowed him to move to the memory care floor once that was needed (such as wandering off). He passed away before things got to that point. However, as good as the higher priced places are, they are communal living situations and very difficult to keep folks "confined to quarters". My Dad's place didn't have a kitchen in the unit so he had to take his meals in the communal dining room. Also, if regular routines are disrupted, memory issues can be exacerbated or decline accelerated.

Some Seniors, too, prefer the Senior Living type place for a variety of reasons. For the right price, you can move into an apartment with gourmet meals, outings, etc. handled for you. Often they have on-site beauty and barber shops and take care of your laundry. Trust me, these places have amazing food and an incredible social schedule (side note, the staff knew that something was wrong with my Dad when he quit being the first one in line for the outings)! At some they will check on you if you don't open your door by a certain time each day and, at the minimum, have call buttons throughout the unit. Most of these places allow you to remain in the same unit and then just add additional services if and when you need them.

Thanks for sharing, Karen. I learned a lot.

It's definitely sad when some seniors get "dumped" into homes, but I am glad to hear there are many positive situations too. Sans COVID-19, I could imagine being in one of the "upper" class homes being quite nice (such as gourmet food and a social atmosphere). It's sad that the virus has made nursing homes very vulnerable.

When looking at my senior relatives, their physical abilities and memory really vary. Age isn't such a determining factor - all else being equal - so much as social/intellectual engagement. My relatives who have continued to work into old age and/or been more socially active seem just better off in terms of their mental faculties. This is something I've learned we need to do. Part of the care for seniors is keeping them connected into our lives and giving them outlets for engagement.

My 89 yr old mother moved into a retirement home last year, moving from 3200 sq ft into 1300. It was rough to downsize, but she is soooooooo happy now. Tons of friends, dinner every night (fab dinner!), activities, her own parking spot, every other week cleaning, all she pays for is her internet and tv, and only $6200 a month. The shutdown has tempered alot of that happiness however, since she can no longer go to her many bridge games through out town. The residents cannot leave the premises without a note showing a Dr appt. They are very strict and unlike many other place, haven't had one case of the virus. I'm very glad to have moved her (her idea) when we did. I'm also glad that her town house rents out for $5000 a month, so the drain on her savings is small.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2020 03:59PM by wildherbs.

We just discovered that we will lose a little revenue effective next week. Our factors make us ineligible for federal benefits. But this is not so bad.

We will be fine, mostly because we will have one day off each week and can rest, go to Nature, and do the myriad little things that stretch the budget to the stratosphere.

So, this is okay.

Costo and Jet Blue to require customers to wear masks. Yay!
[grow.acorns.com]

@ wrote:

Starting May 4, Costco will require all shoppers to wear face masks while inside the popular warehouse club. That same day, according to a company press release, stores will return to regular operating hours and implement a special shopping hour limited to members age 60 and older or those who have a disability.

Menards, a regional home improvement store, is also requiring shoppers to wear face masks. Walmart and Target have both taken steps to ensure associates have masks, but while they encourage shoppers to wear them they do not yet require it.

Airlines are beginning to set rules around face masks for their customers as well. JetBlue announced it would be requiring all passengers to wear face masks starting May 4. Frontier also said it will start requiring passengers to wear masks starting May 8.

One place I'd like to see staff be required to wear face masks is in food service, as I personally am scared that if someone prepares, say, a burger for me that they might breathe COVID-19 onto it or the packaging and that I'd get it into my body later from eating it.

With groceries, we leave the non-perishables out for 3 days before bring them in the house and that's after wiping them down. And even with refridgerated items, we don't technically eat them right away (can the virus stay frozen and active...or get reactivated later???). With prepared food, you eat it right away. That's a reason I don't think I'd eat at a restaurant (among other factors) for a long while.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2020 05:06AM by shoptastic.

@ wrote:

What mask-wearing requirements mean
Even in states like Maryland and Hawaii and cities such as Austin, Texas, where governments require people to wear masks while shopping, it’s often up to individual retailers to determine how they will enforce those rules.

For example, Washington, D.C., mayor Muriel Bowser has said in press conferences that people are required to wear masks in grocery stores. However, the order itself only says that stores must post signage and there is no clear penalty for allowing shoppers without masks to enter. Lindsay Wiley, director of the Health Law and Policy Program at American University Washington College of Law, told NPR the order is similar to how all restaurants are required to post an “employees must wash hands sign.” Just because the sign is there does not mean the rule is being enforced.

One uncertainty, though, even with mask wearing requirements is the issue of enforcement.

This was in Applebee's email today:
As we reopen, here are some things you should expect in our restaurants:
Strict, regimented cleaning, sanitizing and disinfecting procedures and schedules
Team members wearing face coverings to protect themselves and others
Enhanced "no touch" processes
Dining rooms and bars with reduced seating to ensure proper social distancing
Convenient and visible hand sanitizer bottles or stations available for use upon entrance
Tabletop devices that will allow for contactless payments where available
Single-use, disposable menus, and access to online menu on your own device
Condiments available upon request and their containers disinfected after each use
Ongoing adherence to strict team member health protocol requiring team members who do not feel well to stay home and seek proper health care, as needed
Reduced number of guests in the waiting area to again adhere to social distancing
A limited menu as our restaurants begin to reopen to ensure we’re able to provide the best experience to each guest

And while everyone wearing a mask is all good, just where are we going to buy those masks? I think the need will be greater than the supply. I know a lot of people are making masks but if they are not made correctly they are useless.

@plmccut wrote:

And while everyone wearing a mask is all good, just where are we going to buy those masks? I think the need will be greater than the supply. I know a lot of people are making masks but if they are not made correctly they are useless.

If worn incorrectly, they may not be effective either.

And that, too!

Freezing foods kills viruses

I live in NJ and nothing is re-opening except parks and golf courses today. It's soooo depressing here. I literally walk my two dogs 3-4 times a day because there's absolutely nothing else to do. It's been like this since I think March 21st. I can't even remember anymore because it's been so long since I did anything normal. Nothing is open near me except grocery stores and cvs stores.

Sorry for my rant but it's really starting to effect me personally. I've been creative and painted some rooms in my house, applied for unemployment but NJ sucks and still says pending /zero balance. I'm going to literally lose it soon if things don't start to open up. I understand we're a Hotspot here but it's so so hard to stay inside every single day. I want to cry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2020 11:06AM by Fidobaxter.

So my eye doc sent an e-mail with the new protocols for their re-opening. We park in the designated area, call to announce our arrival, and wait for someone to fetch us or call us when they are ready for us. [I suppose they will disinfect and sanitize everything between customers.] Masks are required! Masks must cover nose and mouth, and they can be official masks or cloth coverings.

Sounds bad!

The only thing I can think of is to bring something indoors: online puzzles, online games, and streaming movies and shows. You can even get workouts this way. If you do not have kindle, you could try a free trial of one of the sites that lets you read books for free. If I had a pet, I would let them watch approved animal shows.... but that is just me...

@Fidobaxter wrote:

I live in NJ and nothing is re-opening except parks and golf courses today. It's soooo depressing here. I literally walk my two dogs 3-4 times a day because there's absolutely nothing else to do. It's been like this since I think March 21st. I can't even remember anymore because it's been so long since I did anything normal. Nothing is open near me except grocery stores and cvs stores.

Sorry for my rant but it's really starting to effect me personally. I've been creative and painted some rooms in my house, applied for unemployment but NJ sucks and still says pending /zero balance. I'm going to literally lose it soon if things don't start to open up. I understand we're a Hotspot here but it's so so hard to stay inside every single day. I want to cry.

Heat kills viruses more effectively. Freezing does not necessarily do so.

@Fidobaxter wrote:

Freezing foods kills viruses

I bought mine from Etsy. I really like the ones I got, they fit well and have a wire piece that is moldable to fit tight across the bridge of the nose. They are double layered thick cotton fabric. The woman who makes them has a daughter who is a first responder. I haven't really had a chance to use them yet because I don't go anywhere in public. I wore one once while picking up my vitamin D3 prescription from a place that does not have a drive up window. That was over a week ago and I am still feeling well.

@plmccut wrote:

And while everyone wearing a mask is all good, just where are we going to buy those masks? I think the need will be greater than the supply. I know a lot of people are making masks but if they are not made correctly they are useless.

@shoptastic wrote:

@plmccut wrote:

And while everyone wearing a mask is all good, just where are we going to buy those masks? I think the need will be greater than the supply. I know a lot of people are making masks but if they are not made correctly they are useless.

If worn incorrectly, they may not be effective either.

My daughter sent me this...I don't have the website but basically there was research done at a major university on this and they say it blocks almost as many particles as the N19 masks do. You cut a piece out of a pair of stockings on the leg that is 8-10" long. Do not slit it so basically it is an 8-10 inch tube. Then you put on your inefficient cloth mask and after it is on you slip this piece over your head and slide it over your mask covering your nose and mouth. It will cling since the stocking material is stretchy and the material itself is breathable but has very small weave so it will protect you.
Whoops, just found the website so here it is..you can read it yourself.[www.npr.org]

HiFidobaxter, I am thinking you and your dogs live alone. Fortunately for me my daughter is here with me. I could not imagine living alone , or I mean with no humans even tho the dogs help a lot.
I set up a phone game with my friend the other day that worked pretty well. Because she is not at all tech savvy and I am only slightly better than she is, we played boggle over the phone. I took a pic of the boggle game (if you know what that is) and then emailed it to her. She opened the picture of the board on her side and then we called each other on the phone. I had the timer so i told her over the phone when to start the game and when time was over and then we read each others lists over the phone. We are also planning to do a scrabble game using a free game site but rather than having the time for the game open ended the way these online games usually work I told her we should just set a time to play as if we were in the same room and then we could use the online board but we could speak to each other by phone or by zoom if you want while playing the game and taking turns with limited timing. I did not want to play a game stretched over time but in real time so that is our plan.
I would also recommend joining your local nextdoor group and perhaps asking for your neighbors to call and chat once in a while. Maybe you can meet a real person in the area once in a while and walk 6 feet apart together but still you would have some human contact that way. And even tho they recommend against it I hug my dog a million times a day. She is pretty much quarantined with me so I do not think we are passing anything to each other.

@Fidobaxter wrote:

I live in NJ and nothing is re-opening except parks and golf courses today. It's soooo depressing here. I literally walk my two dogs 3-4 times a day because there's absolutely nothing else to do. It's been like this since I think March 21st. I can't even remember anymore because it's been so long since I did anything normal. Nothing is open near me except grocery stores and cvs stores.

Sorry for my rant but it's really starting to effect me personally. I've been creative and painted some rooms in my house, applied for unemployment but NJ sucks and still says pending /zero balance. I'm going to literally lose it soon if things don't start to open up. I understand we're a Hotspot here but it's so so hard to stay inside every single day. I want to cry.

@shoptastic wrote:

Thanks for sharing, Karen. I learned a lot.

Glad that I could help. I just wish that I hadn't had to develop the knowledge. My Dad being active was really a double-edged sword. It kept him physically healthy for longer but that meant that his body didn't decline as quickly as the dementia did. It also meant that we didn't see as many of the red flags as quickly as we otherwise would have because he and my Mom had been able to develop "tricks" to hide it until it got bad. My Dad really should have been into a Senior Facility much earlier than he was. He was fortunate to have gotten into a really nice place for his last few years, though, and that kept his quality of life higher than it otherwise would have been.

@Fidobaxter wrote:

Freezing foods kills viruses

I don't see any evidence of this, Fidobaxter.

I think it could be the opposite. When I've looked at climate change stuff, I vaguely recall that one of the things people are worried about is that the melting of ice caps and snow in the poles could unleash previously dormant viruses for 100's of thousands of years ago or something. Part of the warning was that we don't know what these viruses are like at all and they could be totally new and deadly.

That seems to suggest they don't die, but just get frozen and inactive.

Haven't looked into this deeply, admittedly, but from the stuff I've seen, I don't think freezing works necessarily.

Any articles/evidence in favor of your view? I'm genuinely curious.

So. If it is true that ice melt is releasing noxious agents, someone will need to figure out whether the seemingly oddball covid symptoms are, in fact, related at least partially to the newly released toxins. Somewhere in the process, it will be necessary to pinpoint where and when the noxious agents are operating independently of and covid and when they are concurrent and/or synergistic. If I were a science genius, I would get a grant for a few gazillion dollars and start this work. Alas, I am not that. But I have a pleasant report...


... Today was a pleasure. While passing through various parts of a town, it was good to see people doing what they do, in the newly normal safe ways, to keep things moving along in business and life. I got a kick out of the people in a parking lot spaced out in the covid style: in one empty space, one person stood six feet away from an open passenger side car window of a car in the adjacent space. The driver of that car was chatting alternately with the standing person and the driver of a third car in the space on the other side of them. Watching the person in the middle was like watching a person watching a tennis game and providing talking head commentary-- if only because we were too far away to hear what they were saying.

@Fidobaxter wrote:

Freezing foods kills viruses

Internet virologist?

This is absolutely not true.

What are your qualifications? Part-time mortgage underwriter?

We refrigerate and freeze bacteria and viruses all the time at work - so that they last a very long time.
We kill them in an autoclave - heat and pressure.

Jesus help me. Sometimes, I read the most ridiculous things on the internet. Sometimes, they are dangerous too.

Please tell me the U.S. doesn't just want to let the virus run through us (and accept whatever deaths come) to get herd immunity. The British government early on wanted to do this: [www.theguardian.com]

[www.cnbc.com]
The Trump administration projects that the number of coronavirus deaths will increase to about 3,000 each day by early June.

The interagency report from the departments of Homeland Security and Health and Human Services also reportedly forecasts that the U.S. will see about 200,000 new Covid-19 cases each day by the end of the month, a significant rise from the current rate.

White House spokesman Judd Deere said: “This is not a White House document nor has it been presented to the Coronavirus Task Force or gone through interagency vetting. This data is not reflective of any of the modeling done by the task force or data that the task force has analyzed.”

Why the hell are we opening up when cases are RISING in the U.S. and we never had a unified (lots of different state approaches and timelines), national shutdown to begin with?

We're just going to let 3,000 die a day?

@SoCalMama wrote:

@Fidobaxter wrote:

Freezing foods kills viruses

Internet virologist?

This is absolutely not true.

What are your qualifications? Part-time mortgage underwriter?

We refrigerate and freeze bacteria and viruses all the time at work - so that they last a very long time.
We kill them in an autoclave - heat and pressure.

Jesus help me. Sometimes, I read the most ridiculous things on the internet. Sometimes, they are dangerous too.

I think everyone appreciates an educated answer.

I agree that wrong information can be dangerous. However, there is a respectful way to point out FB's error vs. this antagonistic approach. It serves no purpose.

Sometimes people genuinely (and innocently)are offering well-intentioned, but erroneous advice/facts. We can show grace and love by simply correcting the person in a constructive manner and leaving it at that. I'm sure everyone has held a wrong belief at some point or time in their lives and passed along a wrong fact.

I do remember you saying in a previous post that you are a scientist, so we do thank you for the correction, as it is very important during these serious times.

Yesterday, I posted about my personal observations of people dealing with mask and distancing conditions. Today, I saw a blurb about a broad who shot a dude in Michigan after he asked her to wear a mask before entering a store.

*eta*

And, JASFLALMT provided additonal info. The woman was not the shooter. A relative shot the guard.

This is not Michigan. Not even close! But the incident makes me want to write a formal letter to my state's tptb and respectfully demand that they shut down tourism and increase other restrictions until 2022 and be willing to extend the shutdowns longer than that, if necessary. Necessary could reference the MI incident and other developing situations.

OTOH, this woman might have though that this was the time to invoke the 2nd Amendment. I would disagree with that and not let her situation be the start of a premature revolution against this nation's government. Someday, that might be necessary. Today, we are far from that. We are only doing our best to match responses to an unknown and possibly ever-changing dratted disease. This is far from the conditions that could precipitate a well-understood invocation of the people's militia. We only need to reserve the right, just in case. Better prepared than sorry, and all that. (was a scout. can't help it.)

There. While presenting two of who knows how many sides of one story, I was required to include something political. Nyah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2020 12:41PM by Shop-et-al.

It was her brother who shot him. She and her mother went home and told her family what happened, and her father and brother came back and the brother shot him (the security guard). Hortible.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

Really sad, the man was just doing his job. The brother shot him in the back of the head. The security guard was only 43 years old.

We are descending into anarchy. Just wait.

Two reasons to stay at home. Disease and crazy people.