@JASFLALMT wrote:

I grew up in NW Florida where they say pop, what part of FL are you in?

@AnneAshley wrote:

Pop is also used in Michigan. I now live in Florida and hear soda most often.

I am in Central Florida.

I guess it must be because where I lived in NW FL there were a lot of transients due to being near AF bases...it's very interesting to think about how some items that are exactly the same are called different things depending on where one lives.

Actually isaiah58, the point was not lost at all. We established early on nobody could find any difference between the two products other than the client requiring one term over the other. Oh yeah, and the guidelines offering examples that may or may not have been crystal clear.

We're comfortable that the guidelines for this project are clear. This is based on the lack of questions submitted by shoppers for this part of the project and the number of issues we've encountered with this part of the project versus the number of shops completed. Several shoppers posted in this thread about the clarity of the guidelines.

There is certainly a difference between products in the outdoor heater and patio heater categories. A patio heater is a specific product in the outdoor heater category. The guidelines for this project clearly stated in three separate areas that the product inquiry was to be for Outdoor Heaters. The guidelines also state that if this portion of the assignment is not done correctly, the shop will be rejected.

Our rejection rate is very low and we do everything we can to avoid having to take this action. Unfortunately, in some cases, there are no alternatives. If a shopper believes that there are extenuating circumstances, we have a process for the shopper to request a review of a decision. Despite how Sentry is portrayed by some forum members, we do try to do the right thing.

At this point, however, we consider the matter closed and would not review this specific situation.

This was my very first shop for Sentry. I read the instructions. It said to ask for outdoor heaters. So I asked for outdoor heaters.

Pay date is Feb. 28.

@Sentry Marketing wrote:

There is certainly a difference between products in the outdoor heater and patio heater categories. A patio heater is a specific product in the outdoor heater category. The guidelines for this project clearly stated in three separate areas that the product inquiry was to be for Outdoor Heaters. The guidelines also state that if this portion of the assignment is not done correctly, the shop will be rejected.

I now understand that patio heaters and outdoor heaters aren't the same thing; who knew? Thanks for your explanation. It clears that up. Is "Outdoor Heaters" in quotation marks in the instructions? This would be a good indication that those exact words are to be used.

I still think the guidelines should state, unequivocally, that that exact term must be used or the shop will be rejected. For the reasons many state (e.g., differences in regional usage) and because it's incumbent on the client and MSC to leave no ambiguity. I did some research into contracts with respect to mystery shopping, and attorneys I spoke with indicated that a contract with any ambiguity or instructions that aren't clear would likely be held against the writer of that contract in a dispute (as in any industry). Fortunately, or not, depending on POV, most mystery shop disputes aren't worth pursuing legally.

I don't know this shop and don't have access to the full written materials, but it's still not clear to me that the instructions make it absolutely clear that the shop won't be accepted if that exact term isn't used. A thing can be done correctly even if the words spoken aren't exact. But my opinion specific to this shop is uninformed. Btw, I agree that the OP should have used the term "outdoor heater" if the difference was explained in the guidelines.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2018 01:57PM by BirdyC.

@walesmaven wrote:

Also, new shop guidelines need to tell the shopper that only one term is accepted.

Exactly!

I will digress. We see this situation over and over. A shopper forgets to ask specific questions in a specific way. They state on their report, honestly, exactly what they asked. The shop is legitimately rejected. We advise the shopper to learn from their mistake. This is a simple shop apparently, several members have stated so. No ticky no laundry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2018 02:06AM by isaiah58.

So how long are we going to beat this dead horse?

So today I did a merchandising reset where I put up shelves of soda, pop, and soda pop...

You learn and you move on to the next shop.

@Sentry Marketing wrote:

We're comfortable that the guidelines for this project are clear. This is based on the lack of questions submitted by shoppers for this part of the project and the number of issues we've encountered with this part of the project versus the number of shops completed. Several shoppers posted in this thread about the clarity of the guidelines.

There is certainly a difference between products in the outdoor heater and patio heater categories. A patio heater is a specific product in the outdoor heater category. The guidelines for this project clearly stated in three separate areas that the product inquiry was to be for Outdoor Heaters. The guidelines also state that if this portion of the assignment is not done correctly, the shop will be rejected.

Our rejection rate is very low and we do everything we can to avoid having to take this action. Unfortunately, in some cases, there are no alternatives. If a shopper believes that there are extenuating circumstances, we have a process for the shopper to request a review of a decision. Despite how Sentry is portrayed by some forum members, we do try to do the right thing.

At this point, however, we consider the matter closed and would not review this specific situation.

You are on a forum for mystery shoppers, telling mystery shoppers how the company does the right thing, yet the company has not responded to my email about this.

Are you trying to convince yourself that you do the right thing?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2018 03:47PM by jenamars.

@jenamars

I am not sure what email you are referring to. I checked my personal email and could not find an email from your and it appears that the last support ticket you submitted was on 1/16 about a shop for a different project.

Stefany Johnson <sjohnson@sentrymarketing.com>
Sun 1/28/2018, 9:24 AM
You;


We are not able to accept the report as a patio heater and an outdoor heater are different where an outdoor heater is made to me weather resistant, where a patio can be covered, therefore would have no need to be weather resistant. Because the incorrect item was inquired of, the client will not accept the report.




Sent with Mailtrack

Regards,
Stefany Johnson
Lead Editor
sjohnson@sentrymarketing.com
The Sentry Marketing Group
This communication contains information from The Sentry Marketing Group, LLC that may be confidential. Except for personal use by the intended recipient, or as expressly authorized by the sender, any person who receives this information is prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, and/or using it. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by replying and delete all copies.


Jennifer D
Sun 1/28/2018, 10:16 AM
I will need further proof, in writing, that the client rejected two reports from the independent contractor because of the reason specified.

Work has been submitted according to the contract, and the contractor deserves to be paid. Thank you.

Regards,

Jennifer Dmytriw

I apologize on behalf of my team for not replying to this email. They should have let you know that we would not be able to fulfill your request.

@jenamars
I would suggest that Sentry gave you a very clear reason for denying the shop - clearly stating the difference between the two terms - at least in terms of the way the client uses them. It is clear that the directions emphasized the term "outdoor," but you used a term you incorrectly (in the client's mind) thought synonymous. That's on you. By using a slightly different term than the one highlighted, you deviated from the instructions and were a little unlucky as it hit a point of emphasis for the client and shop. The rejection was warranted. Sentry does not have the responsibility to re-explain what they already told you, nor do they need to show you any "proof" of other shops rejected for the same reason.

@Sentry Marketing
Dave - I agree with the shop rejection and don't see a reason why Sentry would need to state again the rationale for the rejection. However, it does sound like this is not the only shopper to have made the error. I also know that most of us (just looking at the discussion) know very little about outdoor and patio heaters and could easily have made a similar blunder. I do agree that a brief line in the direction clearly stating the precise term required would be an improvement on the guidelines. (i.e. "Please use the term 'Outdoor heater' when making your inquiry. Any other terminology will lead to shop rejection.)

@MFJohnston

I am unsure of the source of your statement that "it does sound ike this is not the only shopper to have made this error". In fact, we are 90% of the way through the round and there have only been a handful of issues related to this part of the project.

It was from @jenamars latest statement asking for proof that two other shops had been rejected for the same reason. You stated "only a handful of errors" on this part of the shop, which does not directly support her statement but certainly does not deny it. Perhaps this is not correct? Is she the only person who made this blunder?

I agree with you that rejecting the shop was justified. I'm also agreeing that the guidelines were clear "enough." However, that does not mean that they could not be slightly better. Nothing more, nothing less. I can't speak for everybody, but when a very precise phrasing is required, I like directions that say, "Use this precise phrase verbatim" as opposed to emphasis with bold letters, capitals, etc.

There have been a handful of errors around this question, however, no other shopper asked about "patio heaters".

@jenamars wrote:

Stefany Johnson <sjohnson@sentrymarketing.com>
Sun 1/28/2018, 9:24 AM
You;


We are not able to accept the report as a patio heater and an outdoor heater are different where an outdoor heater is made to me weather resistant, where a patio can be covered, therefore would have no need to be weather resistant. Because the incorrect item was inquired of, the client will not accept the report.




Sent with Mailtrack

Regards,
Stefany Johnson
Lead Editor
sjohnson@sentrymarketing.com
The Sentry Marketing Group
This communication contains information from The Sentry Marketing Group, LLC that may be confidential. Except for personal use by the intended recipient, or as expressly authorized by the sender, any person who receives this information is prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, and/or using it. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by replying and delete all copies.


Jennifer D
Sun 1/28/2018, 10:16 AM
I will need further proof, in writing, that the client rejected two reports from the independent contractor because of the reason specified.

Work has been submitted according to the contract, and the contractor deserves to be paid. Thank you.

Regards,

Jennifer Dmytriw

OP, continuing to beat the dead horse by posting your communication with the editor is just public negativity. I was skeptical before you posted this interchange. It's clear from the two emails that

1) The editor gave you a clear reason why your report was not accepted.

2) You are off-base. They do not have to prove to you in writing that the client will not accept the report. Contractors do not work for the client. The MSC works for the client. The contractor works for the MSC. The MSC, your customer, did not accept your report.

3) By posting your communication with Sentry on a public internet forum, I think you have probably massively violated your ICA. Whether or not you get paid for this failed shop, you will probably be deactivated by the MSC. With good reason. And now that you have identified yourself in your post, other schedulers, editors, and company owners will read it and may not want to have you as a contractor.

End of story.

Negativity like this reflects poorly on our forum and makes the forum a place I really don't want to be.

Oh, btw, I do not work for Sentry and I frequently disagree with Dave. But I think I'm honest and fair, and I'm with Sentry on this one. Can we end it?

@roflwofl You may end it by not coming to this thread. This board is as close as I have to co-workers. I am discussing my job with my co-workers, ​and I am not forcing you to participate.

Odd that the OP posted that she would participate more on this forum except for the negativity ..... and then she brings it.

OP, keep quoting the emails that tell everybody on the internet what your name is. You're advertising yourself. Lots of company owners, schedulers, editors, and company owners read here in addition to mystery shoppers. It is not just co-workers you are discussing with - it's the whole industry. And now they all know your name. I don't plan to end it. I'm going to keep reading and watching you shoot yourself in the foot.

WOnder what would happen with sentry with the words POP and SODA? Hmmm Two different yet the same words.

I'm a co-worker and I want to comment on this in general, not necessarily specifically with the the OP although the OP is not excluded. I don't want to argue. This is the entire two cents of my two cents on this.

Many of us have done shops that have been denied by multiple mystery shopping companies. We fail to understand, or we fail to execute flawlessly, and it happens. Sometimes the guidelines are not clear. Sometimes the guidelines are clear but we misunderstand. Sometimes we understand the guidelines perfectly and we still screw it up. Not to say the companies are perfect. Neither are we.

I have had shops rightfully denied. Others were questionable in my mind, but not to the MSP. I have been dropped from programs. Once, due to an error I made. Once, due to a mistake on the part of a scheduling company. I lived over it. I have more work than I care to do. Lots of jobs, lots of scheduling companies, lots of MSPs to work with. Provided, of course, I keep the lines of communication open and don't damage my own image.

This is not a question of who is right and who is wrong in any one case. The question is how best to handle a reputation.

Once a shop is denied, and we inquire, and it is confirmed again that the shop is denied, we need to make the best decision going forward, keeping our own future access to work in mind. Although we may decide to move away from the company refusing the report, we can do that privately without breaking the terms of the contract. Reproducing communication with the MSP is probably beyond the pale. We need to keep in mind the professional image we present to the rest of the mystery shopping community. It is in our own best interest to negotiate with courtesy and an understanding heart.

But in an edit WITH clarification it could have been super easy to edit that single word. Editors so it WITH clarification ALL the time.

I inquired via email and did not receive a response. The MSC requested the email on a public forum; it​ was not unsolicited.

I am not afraid to sign my name. I am telling the truth, I am not mean, and I write using proper grammar and punctuation.

In reply to Canadamommy's statement that the editors could have easily changed the word..yes they could have but that would have not changed the fact that the op asked about the wrong product in the eyes of the client. So changing the word would have been a coverup.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2018 09:07PM by sandyf.

Not to beat this dead horse, but seems to me the issue is easily avoided if the guidelines state that "the term 'outdoor heater' must be used or the shop will be rejected." What's so difficult about that? Then there would be absolutely no questions about this from any shopper. If the OP made the mistake, other shoppers could do so, too. I can't understand, as long as I've been doing this, why guidelines and surveys are so often full of ambiguities and contradictions, or just not totally clear. I'm saying this in general, not just about this specific situation. It's very frustrating to shoppers and would save time on everybody's part--shoppers and MSCs alike--if all guidelines and surveys were reviewed by someone fresh to the project and from the POV of a shopper who would be reading them. Changes could be made on the front end instead of questions and rejected shops being incurred on the back end. Time taken upfront is never wasted.

Unfortunately, too often MSCs fail to look at materials from a shopper's POV and don't "get" that they're confusing or contradictory. They (the MSC personnel) know what everything is supposed to say and are too close to it to understand that it may not say what it should, or not in a way that makes sense to a shopper. Then the shopper is blamed for not understanding and/or the scheduler gets frustrated by numerous questions.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2018 07:06PM by BirdyC.

I don't think the OP's request for a statement from the company that they were not going to be paid for her work is unreasonable. Stating the reason for denying it is far different than stating it will not be used in any capacity. If they do use it in any way, it's likely theft of services and can be actionable.

Certainly those of you who have been shopping for a long time have run into a case where a report was denied, but you had strong suspicions it was still used.